PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

[pedropt10 497]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Ah? You serious? Artur to 90 right now? Artur was probably the best buy of the summer.. because it allowed Benfica to play with a different tactic. They have the chance to play with a keeper on goal now... Suffering 1 goal/game isn't a very great record.. Obviously compared to Roberto he is better and is comparing with him that he looks a super keeper' date=' but in fact imo he is not that great and I have doubts if he will get the 89 in one jump. Even more with no NT games..

and I am not seeing 4 keepers better than Patricio, let alone eight.....[/quote']

I didn't say Artur would reach 90 now, i said he would reach 90 until the end of the season.. The goals he has suffered haven't been his fault (there is one goal where he could've done better..), and if you had watched all the Benfica matches (like I did) you would have seen the very decisive saves that he has made that have won matches for Benfica.

Artur is a very consistent goalkeeper. Not a circus goalkeeper like Lloris, but good enough to be very very decisive. And this is REALLY not because of the contrast with Roberto.

Helton, Artur, Quim, Peiser, Diego, Rui Rego (one mistake isn't enough). 6 goalkeepers that are better than Patricio. And i didn't have to think a lot to write them down. I could find you more if you want.

I have seen 60/70% of Sporting's matches and although Patricio has twice the challenge due to the lack of decent centre defenders in that team, he remains an unstable goalkeeper that makes good saves every now and then and also makes big mistakes every now and then. I don't remember a lot from this season, but against Rio Ave for instance..

--

by the way:

You changed my Quote?! I wrote "Portuguese football fanatic" and in your post it appears as "Benfica football fanatic". what the f*?

[Gizb 4,191]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

I didn't say Artur would reach 90 now' date=' i said he would reach 90 until the end of the season.. The goals he has suffered haven't been his fault (there is one goal where he could've done better..), and if you had watched all the Benfica matches (like I did) you would have seen the very decisive saves that he has made that have won matches for Benfica.

Artur is a very consistent goalkeeper. Not a circus goalkeeper like Lloris, but good enough to be very very decisive. And this is REALLY not because of the contrast with Roberto.

Helton, Artur, Quim, Peiser, Diego, Rui Rego (one mistake isn't enough). 6 goalkeepers that are better than Patricio. And i didn't have to think a lot to write them down. I could find you more if you want.

I have seen 60/70% of Sporting's matches and although Patricio has twice the challenge due to the lack of decent centre defenders in that team, he remains an unstable goalkeeper that makes good saves every now and then and also makes big mistakes every now and then. I don't remember a lot from this season, but against Rio Ave for instance..

--

by the way:

You changed my Quote?! I wrote "Portuguese football fanatic" and in your post it appears as "Benfica football fanatic". what the f*?[/quote']

You said he has 40% of chances.. he has 0% of that or even less. To reach to 89, he has to save goals that aren't his faults or are certain goals. On top of my head is the shot of Fucile, but the Uruguayan shooted almost in his direction and the other in Romania. He had few less hard stops in these 11 games, but had decent ones. Gaitan derseved to jump last season to 89 from 87 and he didn't, I am not seeing Artur to get the 89 even less the 90..

Patricio worst than Peiser, Rui Rego and Diego? lol.. you clearly only saw the highlights of the games..

The quote thingy is clearly a bug .

[DerbyPower 6,071]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Cheers

So' date=' i would like to discuss a few predictions of yours. Some are minor, unimportant things.

BENFICA

Capdevila - why not a direct drop to 88?

Rodrigo - rise to 85? he has been playing more, even has a CL starting XI match

Peixoto - "86 > 85/86" Is it even possible that he doesn't drop 2/3?[/quote']

Too harsh! After all, he's still the only European and World champion playing in Portugal. But then again, so is Cesar Peixoto the only player who won the Champions League.

That's too much I'm afraid. Games at U-20 and U-21 level do not count as competitive matches for SM and the truth is that he amassed limited game time so far (182 minutes), even though I think he should be ahead of Saviola in the XI by now. 83 or 84 is fine.

Nope, but now that I think of it I don't know why I didn't predict a sure-drop. Anyway, Mantorras barely set foot on the pitch and SM didn't drop his 86 for a long time and he never went below 85 before retiring. And common, you guys love Peixoto!

PORTO

except for Rolando's possible rise to 91, IMO you've got this one spot-on.

Err... Wishful thinking.

SPORTING

Andre Martins rises to 78/79 IMO, due to EL minutes.

For playing 13 minutes? He didn't even play in the Portuguese cup. He'll stay for now.

BRAGA

I believe that it is time for Braga to get a general rise. Hell, they were finalists of the Europa League last season, and they are just 3 points away from the leaders of the current championship.

Nuno Gomes - rise to 87?

Alan - rise to 89?

Lima - needs to rise to 88 at least

I know, but I'm really unsure on how SM will behave with Portugal. They really should improve the league's standard (5th best league according to UEFA!) but I have a feeling that they won't.

I'd keep Patricio as he's now an established GK for both club and country and one the of the best young keepers around. If he keeps up his performance levels then I'd expect him to move on to a bigger club. Outside chance of rising to 90 as he's now Portugals first choice keeper' date=' but he'll definitely be hitting and surpassing the 90 mark in the near future.[/quote']

Ehehehehe

You said he has 40% of chances.. he has 0% of that or even less. To reach to 89' date=' he has to save goals that aren't his faults or are certain goals. On top of my head is the shot of Fucile, but the Uruguayan shooted almost in his direction and the other in Romania. He had few less hard stops in these 11 games, but had decent ones. Gaitan derseved to jump last season to 89 from 87 and he didn't, I am not seeing Artur to get the 89 even less the 90..

Patricio worst than Peiser, Rui Rego and Diego? lol.. you clearly only saw the highlights of the games..

[b']The quote thingy is clearly a bug.[/b]

That was smooth.

Regarding the whole Artur subject I already discussed it with Gizb. I think he has to go to 89 (Quim was 90 at some point, why wouldn't Artur go to 89?) but Gizb has this crazy idea that I overrated all the players in my predictions. Meh, not that I care as long as Hulk goes to 92. BTW, his hair looks pathetic.

[Gizb 4,191]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Too harsh! After all' date=' he's still the only European and World champion playing in Portugal. But then again, so is Cesar Peixoto the only player who won the Champions League.

[/quote']

Polga is also one, if not the first, World Champion playing in Portugal. But Capdevilla is the first accumulating both trophies.

I know' date=' but I'm really unsure on how SM will behave with Portugal. They really should improve the league's standard (5th best league according to UEFA!) but I have a feeling that they won't. [/quote']

I don't believe they will do, because 92% of the total of points earnt were by big4. 8% is very low for the other 6 clubs(Maritimo, Nacional, Guimarães, Paços, Leiria and Setubal) that participated in European competitions during the last 5 years.

Regarding the whole Artur subject I already discussed it with Gizb. I think he has to go to 89 (Quim was 90 at some point' date=' why wouldn't Artur go to 89?) but Gizb has this crazy idea that I overrated all the players in my predictions. Meh, not that I care as long as Hulk goes to 92. BTW, his hair looks pathetic.[/quote']

Get ready for the worst expecting the best but surely Emerson won't get a 89.. =P

[kitey 631]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

i love this thread already. LOL

There should be more interest in the Portugal league as they have taken over France in the Coefficent league. Rising 1 spot to 5th.

With this in mind surely players like Hulk, Mourtinho will get there deserved 92's

I am hopeful Artur will get a plus 1 rise. A plus 2 would be fab but statisically he surely doesnt deserve it yet.

[DerbyPower 6,071]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

i love this thread already. LOL

There should be more interest in the Portugal league as they have taken over France in the Coefficent league. Rising 1 spot to 5th.

With this in mind surely players like Hulk' date=' Mourtinho will get there deserved 92's

[b']I am hopeful Artur will get a plus 1 rise. A plus 2 would be fab but statisically he surely doesnt deserve it yet.[/b]

Starting every game for Benfica except one isn't statistically good? He relegated a much more reputable GK to the bench (Eduardo). He is a Champions League goalkeeper. I honestly do not see why Artur wouldn't rise to 89.

I don't believe they will do' date=' because 92% of the total of points earnt were by big4. 8% is very low for the other 6 clubs(Maritimo, Nacional, Guimarães, Paços, Leiria and Setubal) that participated in European competitions during the last 5 years.[/quote']

So what? Everton or Sunderland rarely qualify for Europe and their ratings still benefit from playing in the EPL.

And... the thread is complete. Phew! DON'T POST THERE!

Table of Contents:

1. Individual Teams: Players current rating and new rating prediction:

1.1 – FC Porto

1.2 – Benfica

1.3 – Sporting CP

1.4 – Sporting de Braga

1.5 – Vitória de Guimarães

1.6 – Académica

1.7 – Olhanense

1.8 – União de Leiria

1.9 – Paços de Ferreira

1.10 – Nacional da Madeira

1.11 – Marítimo

1.12 – Rio Ave

1.13 – Gil Vicente

1.14 – Vitória de Setúbal

1.15 – Beira-Mar

1.16 – Feirense

2. Best buys/young prospects/risers

[Jordan Tze 1,350]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Hi Derbypower, have read through your prediction for Fc porto and saw you wrote Otamendi will rise to 90 in the next coming change, but he has only play 4 matches so far. do you think he will rise beyond 90 in the future?

Have him on one my my fav team, so i want to ensure i keep the right player. thanks for your help

[DerbyPower 6,071]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Hi Derbypower' date=' have read through your prediction for Fc porto and saw you wrote Otamendi will rise to 90 in the next coming change, but he has only play 4 matches so far. do you think he will rise beyond 90 in the future?

Have him on one my my fav team, so i want to ensure i keep the right player. thanks for your help [/quote']

4 league matches + 3 Champions League matches + the European Supercup match. Besides, he is now a starter for Argentina as he played the full 90 minutes in the last 4 matches (and scored against Venezuela).

[pedropt10 497]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Hi Derbypower' date=' have read through your prediction for Fc porto and saw you wrote Otamendi will rise to 90 in the next coming change, but he has only play 4 matches so far. do you think he will rise beyond 90 in the future?

Have him on one my my fav team, so i want to ensure i keep the right player. thanks for your help [/quote']

I don't exactly remember why he didn't play (injury?), but don't worry. He is the growing leader of Porto's defensive backline and is - when fit obviously - a sure starter. He will surely rise this time. But you never know

You said he has 40% of chances.. he has 0% of that or even less. To reach to 89' date=' he has to save goals that aren't his faults or are certain goals. On top of my head is the shot of Fucile, but the Uruguayan shooted almost in his direction and the other in Romania. He had few less hard stops in these 11 games, but had decent ones. Gaitan derseved to jump last season to 89 from 87 and he didn't, I am not seeing Artur to get the 89 even less the 90..

Patricio worst than Peiser, Rui Rego and Diego? lol.. you clearly only saw the highlights of the games..

The quote thingy is clearly a bug .[/quote']

Ok it's always subjective to discuss who's best, but if you read, for instance, Maisfutebol's list with the amount of points they've given to the players' exhibitions so far (http://www.maisfutebol.iol.pt/superliga-geral/tabela-pontuados-ranking-liga-pontos-maisfutebol/1281951-1676.html) try to find Patricio. Then try to find the others I mentioned. And more (Fabiano, Nilson...).

Not that I like to use the journalists' opinion to support mine, but since Maisfutebol is a website that if they had to pick a club, it would be Sporting IMO , that should do.

Oh and that "bug" i admit it was very subtle, congrats on that

[pedropt10 497]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

For playing 13 minutes? He didn't even play in the Portuguese cup. He'll stay for now.

Well' date=' it's true, but i was looking at in the medium-term. He is always on the bench for every match, and will, due to Elias' EL absence surely come in more often IMO

BTW, his hair looks pathetic.

Lol i sincerely hope everyone some fans do the same i'm sure you've seen Maisfutebol's gallery on former Hulk "looks" this one isn't the worst

[andyowls 11,740]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

You said he has 40% of chances.. he has 0% of that or even less.

No he didn't. He said Gaitan had 40% chance of hitting 90. He never insinuated that Artur would hit 90 in the next review.

[Gizb 4,191]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Ok it's always subjective to discuss who's best' date=' but if you read, for instance, Maisfutebol's list with the amount of points they've given to the players' exhibitions so far ([url']http://www.maisfutebol.iol.pt/superliga-geral/tabela-pontuados-ranking-liga-pontos-maisfutebol/1281951-1676.html[/url]) try to find Patricio. Then try to find the others I mentioned. And more (Fabiano, Nilson...).

Not that I like to use the journalists' opinion to support mine, but since Maisfutebol is a website that if they had to pick a club, it would be Sporting IMO , that should do.

Oh and that "bug" i admit it was very subtle, congrats on that

I went to maisfutebol before post.. but if you think a bit, in the last games Patricio hardly had what to do. He probably had only 2 or 3pts per game, because he can't show his value without having work. When you see Capel in the 1st place, the list loses all the credibility.. ^^ Also don't think you would swap Helton for Diego or Nilson(sincerely don't understand how he has that amount of pts) being them ranked higher. Is an indicator(opinions), but I strongly disagree. Even more when you see that Patricio has played well for Portugal..

No he didn't. He said Gaitan had 40% chance of hitting 90. He never insinuated that Artur would hit 90 in the next review.

Yeah, I misread that. When I quoted it appeared all close that I thought the subject was the same..

@DerbyPower, even Birmingham that is in 2nd division defeated Nacional and has the same pts of Braga in their EL group.. if Sunderland or Everton played those 6, they would call that a chocolate.

[pedropt10 497]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

I went to maisfutebol before post.. but if you think a bit' date=' in the last games Patricio hardly had what to do. He probably had only 2 or 3pts per game, because he can't show his value without having work. When you see Capel in the 1st place, the list loses all the credibility.. ^^ Also don't think you would swap Helton for Diego or Nilson(sincerely don't understand how he has that amount of pts) being them ranked higher. Is an indicator(opinions), but I strongly disagree. Even more when you see that Patricio has played well for Portugal..[/quote']

Well as I said I hate to use the journalists' opinion to support mine.. I don't know how Capel or Nilson have that many points as well. Diego is a great goalkeeper though. He was it in Leixões, and remained so in Setubal. And well, I see that you are one of the few people in this world that love Patricio. I hope you're happy that he is in the goal of our pseudo-NT, i sure am not

[Gizb 4,191]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Well as I said I hate to use the journalists' opinion to support mine.. I don't know how Capel or Nilson have that many points as well. Diego is a great goalkeeper though. He was it in Leixões' date=' and remained so in Setubal. And well, I see that you are one of the few people in this world that love Patricio. I hope you're happy that he is in the goal of our pseudo-NT, i sure am not [/quote']

I don't. But apart of his distribution he has played well for Portugal. I prefer the Eduardo of last WC on goal or.. Beto. But as it is unlikely, we have to support who is playing but I fully agree that he will stay. About Diego, he on par with Patricio, is/are probably the best penalty stoppers and that outshines all his debilities. The crosses, the distribution, poor communication for example.

[kitey 631]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

for those that are interested. This was from the SoccerManager twitter feed

SoccerManager For those asking when Europe's main leagues will be reviewed on #SoccerManager we are aiming for the end of November/start of December.

[pedropt10 497]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

I don't. But apart of his distribution he has played well for Portugal. I prefer the Eduardo of last WC on goal or.. Beto. But as it is unlikely' date=' we have to support who is playing but I fully agree that he will stay. About Diego, he on par with Patricio, is/are probably the best penalty stoppers and that outshines all his debilities. The crosses, the distribution, poor communication for example.[/quote']

You're right, we do have to support whoever's playing. Except for a few superstars that do nothing there, but that's a different subject. I wish we'd have the WC Eduardo.. he really did a fantastic job.

Look, this is Patricio's ideal year I'd say. Sporting is attacking very well, but still remain a defensive mess. It's his time to shine. When Sporting faces teams like Benfica, Porto, Braga, a EL side that attacks well or even any team that is effective in set pieces, we'll see how well they're playing..

[Machines 7,352]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Patricio worst than Peiser' date=' [b']Rui Rego[/b] and Diego? lol.. you clearly only saw the highlights of the games..

Rui Rego should be in Portugal NT already, he has been without a doubt one of the top performers in our league. I watch almost all of his games. Fully. I can´t remember a mistake he made since he joined Beira-Mar but this last one against Benfica. He gives a lot of confidence to the defence. He´s very good at getting the crosses, one thing that most of goalkeepers has some difficulties, and he makes brilliant defenses. He´s very very regular. He´s a small guy, but he´s an huge goalkeeper. As a Beira-Mar supporter, im so glad to have him in our team and i honestly think he deserves to be in our NT. He kinda reminds me of Beto, but i think he´s more thrustable atm.

Rui Patricio is a good goalkeeper, but Rego is not worst, he´s more confident and doens´t make so many mistakes. He just looses for Patricio in age and height. Peiser and Diego can both make spectacular saves, but im not sure if they´re on same level of Patricio and Rego. Patricio has quality and will rise to 90 at some point i guess, but he really needs to improve, he´s no longer an young prospect.

On another note, Artur is doing very good in Benfica. He made good saves in almost everygames and he doesn´t conceed stupid goals. He was brilliant against Twente too (both games i think), incredibly saves. Ofc its easy to do better than Roberto, but he´s really having an impact in all Benfica defence, despite they continue conceeding some goals. I think he has good chances to get 89, his performances and Benfica form justify that.

[KVARATSKHELIA 45]

Riferimento: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

@ DerbyPower: you predict a rise for Alvaro Pereira, but no rise for Maxi Pereira. Both are important for their clubs and their national alike. Why in your opinion, Maxi don't rise?

[pedropt10 497]

Re: Riferimento: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

@ DerbyPower: you predict a rise for Alvaro Pereira' date=' but no rise for Maxi Pereira. Both are important for their clubs and their national alike. Why in your opinion, Maxi don't rise?[/quote']

Hopefully you don't mind if I comment on this.

Maxi is more influent in Benfica than Alvaro is in Porto IMO, but Alvaro is a better player than Maxi. He did better in the NT than Maxi as well. And after Porto's European and domestic performance last season, plus WC and Copa America efforts, Alvaro must rise.

[DerbyPower 6,071]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

@ DerbyPower: you predict a rise for Alvaro Pereira' date=' but no rise for Maxi Pereira. Both are important for their clubs and their national alike. Why in your opinion, Maxi don't rise?[/quote']

Hopefully you don't mind if I comment on this.

Maxi is more influent in Benfica than Alvaro is in Porto IMO' date=' but Alvaro is a better player than Maxi. He did better in the NT than Maxi as well. And after Porto's European and domestic performance last season, plus WC and Copa America efforts, Alvaro [b']must[/b] rise.

Yep, I was specifically thinking on Uruguay's victory in the CA when I made Álvaro's prediction. The main difference between both is that Álvaro has a lot of silverware to account for, Maxi not so much.

[Machines 7,352]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Table of Contents:

1. Individual Teams: Players current rating and new rating prediction:

1.1 – FC Porto

1.2 – Benfica

1.3 – Sporting CP

1.4 – Sporting de Braga

1.5 – Vitória de Guimarães

1.6 – Académica

1.7 – Olhanense

1.8 – União de Leiria

1.9 – Paços de Ferreira

1.10 – Nacional da Madeira

1.11 – Marítimo

1.12 – Rio Ave

1.13 – Gil Vicente

1.14 – Vitória de Setúbal

1.15 – Beira-Mar

1.16 – Feirense

2. Best buys/young prospects/risers

Good job m8, repped!

I agree with most of the predictions, they seems really accurate.

One thing i´m not sure is if some Gil Vicente and Feirense´s players will rise that much. They just come to Primeira Liga this season and their teams are pretty low rated, so SM might be a little harsh. I know you know that but... They´re not doing awsome also, despite a good start. On another note i think that Cristian Atsu deserves a +5 for 80, his performances have been impressive, despite Rio Ave´s poor start. They will improve his position until SM review Portuguese League, so i believe it would be unfair if just goes to 78. He´s been even more impressive than Kelvin, he´s way more effective. 80 is probably a minimum for him. Cheers m8.

[kila33 12]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Airton Ribeiro? He isn't mentioned.

Will he go back to Benfica on the end of season? Is there a chance for rise? I do not follow Flamengo and have no idea how he is playing there.

[DerbyPower 6,071]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Good job m8' date=' repped!

I agree with most of the predictions, they seems really accurate.

One thing i´m not sure is if some Gil Vicente and Feirense´s players will rise that much. They just come to Primeira Liga this season and their teams are pretty low rated, so SM might be a little harsh. I know you know that but... They´re not doing awsome also, despite a good start. On another note i think that Cristian Atsu deserves a +5 for 80, his performances have been impressive, despite Rio Ave´s poor start. They will improve his position until SM review Portuguese League, so i believe it would be unfair if just goes to 78. He´s been even more impressive than Kelvin, he´s way more effective. 80 is probably a minimum for him. Cheers m8.[/quote']

I've been here long enough to know that the teams which go up are usually the ones with the best reviews in Portugal. Gil Vicente and Feirense are doing pretty well all things considered and their ratings will benefit from it. And like I said, the Portuguese league improved it's status.

Agreed. I think both Atsu and Kelvin will go to 80 and to be fair Rio Ave is improving lately. I'll have plenty of time to revise the predictions though, at this rate SM won't look at Portugal before early December.

Airton Ribeiro? He isn't mentioned.

Will he go back to Benfica on the end of season? Is there a chance for rise? I do not follow Flamengo and have no idea how he is playing there.

He isn't mentioned because he doesn't play in Portugal.

Neither do I.

[pedropt10 497]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Airton Ribeiro? He isn't mentioned.

Will he go back to Benfica on the end of season? Is there a chance for rise? I do not follow Flamengo and have no idea how he is playing there.

forget him. i honestly don't know how he's doing in Brazil as well, but he never was more than an average player. Given the high risk that he doesn't become a good player in the future (although every brazilian plays well in Brazil), i would sell him for a rising player of similar rating, position and age.

[kitey 631]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

what do you think of Kleber at Porto? Is he the man to replace Falcao? I have him in a GC set up which is ultra competitive and I have a few offers for him