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PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread


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After the checking the amount of comments in the main thread (despite my efforts to avoid having them there) and PM's both through the forum and in-game, I decided to create this thread so that you ca

Otavio only deserves a +1 I think. Braga have been dropping like a stone recently which may (and probably should) affect their review.  Rahul's predictions for the big 3 are fair, so for the othe

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread It has been a great journey since 2011, great people and great fun! And well, This is my forum post number 1000! I could

Re: Riferimento: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

any information about Nolito? is he regularly playing in Benfica?which rating can he reach? should i exchange him with my Lucas Pratto? Thank you

Not sure what his rating will be but he has been playing quite regular albeit not for the full 90 minutes in games .

here iis his season stats.

Date Competition Phase Mins G A

The home team is listed first. Last updated: 03/11/2011 02:05 CET

27.07.2011 UEFA Champions League Third qualifying round Benfica 2-0 Trabzonspor 36 1 0

03.08.2011 UEFA Champions League Third qualifying round Trabzonspor 1-1 Benfica 90 1 0

12.08.2011 Portuguese First Division Gil Vicente 2-2 Benfica 90 1 0

16.08.2011 UEFA Champions League Play-offs Twente 2-2 Benfica 90 1 0

20.08.2011 Portuguese First Division Benfica 3-1 Feirense 83 1 0

24.08.2011 UEFA Champions League Play-offs Benfica 3-1 Twente 74 0 0

29.08.2011 Portuguese First Division Nacional 0-2 Benfica 45 0 0

10.09.2011 Portuguese First Division Benfica 2-1 Vitória SC 33 0 0

14.09.2011 UEFA Champions League Group stage Benfica 1-1 Man. United 34 0 0

18.09.2011 Portuguese First Division Benfica 4-1 Académica 90 2 0

23.09.2011 Portuguese First Division Porto 2-2 Benfica 69 0 0

27.09.2011 UEFA Champions League Group stage Oţelul Galaţi 0-1 Benfica 27 0 0

01.10.2011 Portuguese First Division Benfica 4-1 Paços de Ferreira 29 1 0

14.10.2011 Portuguese Cup Third round Portimonense 0-2 Benfica 90 0 0

18.10.2011 UEFA Champions League Group stage Basel 0-2 Benfica 23 0 0

22.10.2011 Portuguese First Division Beira-Mar 0-1 Benfica 61 0 0

29.10.2011 Portuguese First Division Benfica 2-1 Olhanense 25 0 0

02.11.2011 UEFA Champions League Group stage Benfica 1-1 Basel 8 0 0

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Derby, i suggest you re-adjust some predictions:

Rinaudo - 86 > 87 (minor change. long term injury as you surely know)

Rodrigo - 82 > 85/86 (he will become the starting striker)

Matic - 84 > 86 (quite many minutes due to Javi's injury, still a good option)

Now to introduce a discussion:

Alan - 88 > 89? Two and a half glorious Braga years aren't enough?

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Derby' date=' i suggest you re-adjust some predictions:

Rinaudo - 86 > 87 (minor change. long term injury as you surely know)

Rodrigo - 82 > 85/86 (he will become the starting striker)

Matic - 84 > 86 (quite many minutes due to Javi's injury, still a good option)

Now to introduce a discussion:

Alan - 88 > 89? Two and a half glorious Braga years aren't enough?[/quote']

1. Yep, it's logical.

2. Nope. :P He might have an outside chance to rise to 85, but he ain't gonna get 86 in one jump. I remember Cissokho had 82 as well when he joined Porto and SM rose him to 86, and he played much more minutes than Rodrigo, including eight- and quarter-finals of the CL. 84/85 will do.

3. Agreed, although I don't rate him highly. B)

4. I don't think so. I mean, SM doesn't think so. Eduardo only rose to 89 when he was at Braga because he was a starter for the NT and was having CL football. Don't get me wrong, I'd give 89 to Alan in a second (saying that 70% of Benfica fans are black... Legend! :D), but SM will go for the conservative way. As always. :rolleyes:

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

2. Nope. :P He might have an outside chance to rise to 85' date=' but he ain't gonna get 86 in one jump. I remember Cissokho had 82 as well when he joined Porto and SM rose him to 86, and he played much more minutes than Rodrigo, including eight- and quarter-finals of the CL. 84/85 will do.

4. I don't think so. I mean, SM doesn't think so. Eduardo only rose to 89 when he was at Braga because he was a starter for the NT and was having CL football. Don't get me wrong, I'd give 89 to Alan in a second (saying that 70% of Benfica fans are black... Legend! :D), but SM will go for the conservative way. As always. :rolleyes:[/quote']

2. Although Cissokho is a good example, Rodrigo scores goals, something that Cissokho surely didn't and it's also something that is appealing for the SM "experts" that surely support their predictions majorly on statistics. We'll see, but if Rodrigo really picks up the pace he might just get the 86. 85 surely.

4. Well ok, but since then Braga even became a World championship Division 3 side (i do not know when though). It starts to be plain stupid that Braga is so lowly rated. Another good EL season (that IMO they won't pull off) could do it. If not, ranking 4th close enough to the leaders won't be an argument.

David Simao of Benfica isn't on your predictions thread. Seen he's got no minutes yet this season but got quite a few games last season for Paços de Ferreira and seems to play a bit for the national U21 side. Worth keeping?

David Simao became a definite part of the Benfica squad this season. He has played in the Portuguese Cup nearly the whole match and will probably do it again in the next round. He is an interesting player, i don't think he's a big deal though, yet he should become across the next season a more important player in the squad.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

David Simao of Benfica isn't on your predictions thread. Seen he's got no minutes yet this season but got quite a few games last season for Paços de Ferreira and seems to play a bit for the national U21 side. Worth keeping?

Yep, I forgot about him. :o Anyway, his major problem is being Portuguese and home-grown. 'Nuff said. Honestly I can't remember the last player who came through Benfica's youth setup and had a decent career. Manuel Fernandes perhaps, and Maniche before him. Then it's just a giant desert between those and Rui Costa. I'm not saying that David Simão won't be a good player, but the odds are stacked against him.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Yep' date=' I forgot about him. :o Anyway, his major problem is being Portuguese and home-grown. 'Nuff said. Honestly I can't remember the last player who came through Benfica's youth setup and had a decent career. Manuel Fernandes perhaps, and Maniche before him. Then it's just a giant desert between those and Rui Costa. I'm not saying that David Simão won't be a good player, but the odds are stacked against him.[/quote']

I'm afraid this is true. The only great youth academy where great players have come in Portugal in the last 10 years is Sporting. Benfica only this year remembered to bring in some players from the youth (and mainly because there is a limit for foreigners in UEFA), before it basically didn't exist, and Porto just trains Portuguese players to loan them out forever.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

HEY!!! Who are the must buys in the league' date=' just a couple would be nice.. and are there any big risers in the league or any players that could be as good as messi etc thanks :)[/quote']

Posts like these make me lose faith in humanity. Pedro, don't bother. Seriously.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Tiago Ilori sneaked on to the DB today, U19 international, got 90mins for Sporting other day, Born over here in London!

Anything else to say about him? one to look out for or just another product who will go on loan and not get near the 1st team again?

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Tiago Ilori sneaked on to the DB today' date=' U19 international, got 90mins for Sporting other day, Born over here in London!

Anything else to say about him? one to look out for or just another product who will go on loan and not get near the 1st team again?[/quote']

I think Ilori will be just like Carriço regarding the loan strategy. Sporting has good and prospective CBs in the squad and I doubt they'll be buying any player for the position next year (Polga should be replaced by Nuno Reis). Iloris will play a minor role obviously, but he's one to watch.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Posts like these make me lose faith in humanity. Pedro' date=' don't bother. Seriously.[/quote']

Lool :D i admit I was going to search the link for your thread, but I lost the mood on the way :P still, i would suggest that you put that link on your signature, for you to regain the missing faith B)

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

hey DP, just out of curiosity....do SM really base much on the UEFA coefficient. I mean, i'm thinking out of the box here but here me out....

I honestly dont think the UEFA coefficients are much to judge anything by - and shouldnt be. I have serious doubts and scepticism whether SM consider them much? Portugal is of course the 5th best league according to the rankings, but i still feel personally that it is equal 6th along with a host of middle-standard leagues like belgium, ukraine and russia.

lets be honest, the EL is a pretty worthless competition, a losers competition really since all the CL dropouts filter into it. so if that becomes a basis for argument that portugal is the 5th best league in europe then its a false economy isn't it? im pretty sure the ukraine reached some stupidly lofty coefficient ranking when shakhtar and kiev were in the EL final too.

the bottom line is france is a better league league than portugal no matter what the coefficient rankings are but what will SM think? i've no idea, hence the conundrum and raised doubt. apart from 3 portuguese teams the championship in england is probably a stronger league than portugal. so, given Birmingham City's appearance in the EL....if they got far should all the birmingham and other championship players be rated at around the 88 level? of course not. SM are'nt going to start rating championship players in england 88's just because birmingham do reasonably well in the EL, they will stay at around the 85 cap that they always have, barring the odd exception.

So, my thought is portugal wont get a major ratings boost for its lesser teams, just the big three (plus braga maybe)...simply because otherwise there would then be clamour for the championship to be rated better. common sense tells you SM will just what they do best and be conservative. i'm not stating fact here i'm merely just trying to raise debate and ask the question as to SM's perspective of the strength of not just the portuguese league, but all of them.

the way i see it, which is somewhat 'conservative' perhaps...i think its about right that braga players are rated around the 86-88 bracket, top sporting and benfica players 87-90 ish and porto up to 91. then the rest in the top half rated no more than the same cap as the championship, 85. and the lesser teams in the division 80-83. if all the lower teams started getting better ratings you'd probably have to question why its the case.

thoughts? i'm only raising this simpy because I noticed some of the ratings rises that have been suggested are simply on the back of portugal now being 5th in the coefficient list. is this really enough for SM to raise the profile of its portuguese ratings? thats all im asking in a long winded way!

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

hey DP' date=' just out of curiosity....do SM really base much on the UEFA coefficient. I mean, i'm thinking out of the box here but here me out....

in my opinion I honestly dont think the UEFA coefficients are much to judge anything by - and shouldnt be. I have serious doubts and scepticism whether SM consider them much? Portugal is of course the 5th best league according to the rankings, but i still feel personally that it is equal 6th along with a host of middle-standard leagues like belgium, ukraine and russia.

[b']

lets be honest, the EL is a pretty worthless competition, a losers competition [/b]really since all the CL dropouts filter into it. so if that becomes a basis for argument that portugal is the 5th best league in europe then its a false economy isn't it? im pretty sure the ukraine reached some stupidly lofty coefficient ranking when shakhtar and kiev were in the EL final too.

the bottom line is france is a better league league than portugal no matter what the coefficient rankings are but what will SM think? i've no idea, hence the conundrum and raised doubt. apart from 3 portuguese teams the championship in england is probably a stronger league than portugal. so, given Birmingham City's appearance in the EL....if they got far should all the birmingham and other championship players be rated at around the 88 level? of course not. SM are'nt going to start rating championship players in england 88's just because birmingham do reasonably well in the EL, they will stay at around the 85 cap that they always have, barring the odd exception.

So, my thought is portugal wont get a major ratings boost for its lesser teams, just the big three (plus braga maybe)...simply because otherwise there would then be clamour for the championship to be rated better. common sense tells you SM will just what they do best and be conservative. i'm not stating fact here i'm merely just trying to raise debate and ask the question as to SM's perspective of the strength of not just the portuguese league, but all of them.

the way i see it, which is somewhat 'conservative' perhaps...i think its about right that braga players are rated around the 86-88 bracket, top sporting and benfica players 87-90 ish and porto up to 91. then the rest in the top half rated no more than the same cap as the championship, 85. and the lesser teams in the division 80-83. if all the lower teams started getting better ratings you'd probably have to question why its the case.

thoughts?

didn't stayed to read all but the bold one is....a joke....PSG-rubbish team,Lazio-rubbish team,Sporting Lisbon-rubbish team,Atletico Madrid-loser team...go away.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

hang on, get your facts right....read your quoted bold letters again. i didnt say the teams were rubbish mate, the competition is, that was my point. all these teams field second XI's for the most part, atleast until the later knockout rounds. i do not think PSG, atletico madrid and sporting are rubbish teams lets get that straight. none of them treat the competition with much seriousness until the later rounds. did you see the team spurs sent out last week.

so...thats that cleared up.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

hey DP' date=' just out of curiosity....do SM really base much on the UEFA coefficient. I mean, i'm thinking out of the box here but here me out....

I honestly dont think the UEFA coefficients are much to judge anything by - and shouldnt be. I have serious doubts and scepticism whether SM consider them much? Portugal is of course the 5th best league according to the rankings, but i still feel personally that it is equal 6th along with a host of middle-standard leagues like belgium, ukraine and russia.

lets be honest, the EL is a pretty worthless competition, a losers competition really since all the CL dropouts filter into it. so if that becomes a basis for argument that portugal is the 5th best league in europe then its a false economy isn't it? im pretty sure the ukraine reached some stupidly lofty coefficient ranking when shakhtar and kiev were in the EL final too.

the bottom line is france is a better league league than portugal no matter what the coefficient rankings are but what will SM think? i've no idea, hence the conundrum and raised doubt. apart from 3 portuguese teams the championship in england is probably a stronger league than portugal. so, given Birmingham City's appearance in the EL....if they got far should all the birmingham and other championship players be rated at around the 88 level? of course not. SM are'nt going to start rating championship players in england 88's just because birmingham do reasonably well in the EL, they will stay at around the 85 cap that they always have, barring the odd exception.

So, my thought is portugal wont get a major ratings boost for its lesser teams, just the big three (plus braga maybe)...simply because otherwise there would then be clamour for the championship to be rated better. common sense tells you SM will just what they do best and be conservative. i'm not stating fact here i'm merely just trying to raise debate and ask the question as to SM's perspective of the strength of not just the portuguese league, but all of them.

the way i see it, which is somewhat 'conservative' perhaps...i think its about right that braga players are rated around the 86-88 bracket, top sporting and benfica players 87-90 ish and porto up to 91. then the rest in the top half rated no more than the same cap as the championship, 85. and the lesser teams in the division 80-83. if all the lower teams started getting better ratings you'd probably have to question why its the case.

thoughts? i'm only raising this simpy because I noticed some of the ratings rises that have been suggested are simply on the back of portugal now being 5th in the coefficient list. is this really enough for SM to raise the profile of its portuguese ratings? thats all im asking in a long winded way![/quote']

what are you on about? did you even stop and think for a minute before posting your egocentric thoughts and personal opinions? you didn't think outside the box you simply did not think at all.

why do you think there is a rating system if not to evaluate the strength of the leagues? the rating system evaluates how different teams from different leagues perform against each other in international club competitions. Just because it is your personal opinion that some league is better then another is does work like that in real life.

The EL is the most important and prestigious international club competition in Europe after the Champions League so I would not call it a "worthless competition, a losers competition". The rating system does not just rate teams on the EL but also teams in the CL. Do you even know what the rating list is and what going up in the rating list means? I will explain in simple terms, from your post i'm worried you wont be able to follow, I will also only mention the CL as you obviously think nothing of the EL so I wont bother.

Going up from 6th to 5th means that this year the top two teams in Portugal will go straight into the CL and that the 3rd will play the playoff to qualify to the group stages, meaning that from only having two teams in the CL next year Portugal will have get the chance to have 3 teams in the CL, meaning potentially more points going towards Portuguese teams therefore more chances to go further up the ranking, more prestige and what all clubs need to improve (alongside other things) more money and better players willing to sign for Portuguese clubs in order to get a crack at CL football. The ratings dont just go up form one season to the other, it is an ongoing process, meaning how teams have performed throughout the years is still reflected in the current ranking table. the rating is extremely important for clubs, players and anyone that knows anything about football so why would it not be important for SM? Only because it is not important for you? get over yourself.

"the bottom line is france is a better league league than portugal no matter what the coefficient rankings" your own personal opinion is not valid in real life and how the football world works, you clearly know very little about this hence your completely ridiculous sentence. Portuguese team have been destroying French teams for years now and not just on EL I might add.

"championship in england is probably a stronger league than portugal. so, given Birmingham City's appearance in the EL" again your own personal opinion that just shows how little you know about not only the Portuguese league but also the football world in general. the championship is not stronger than the portuguese Liga Zon Sagres, it is a secondary league in England and it would be also be a secondary league in Portugal, although im Portuguese I have lived in England for 7 years, I can say after watching the championship for 7 years that the difference in level of football played between the premiership and the championship is horrendous, you just think the championship is good because its from where young english players come from and you dont bother watching any other leagues in the world apart from EPL, championship and CL. The championship is as bad if not worse than the portuguese second division and it does not come anywhere near the portuguese top division. An example for you to understand Al Taarbat, Connor wickham and Chamberlain best players in the championship last year, best players in the portuguese league last year, Luisao, Hulk, James Rodriguez, Moutinho, Gaitan, Aimar David Luiz, Coentrao only to name a few. Top league in Portugal is far better than championship by miles. Just look at what players come out of the portuguese league and where they end up, strangely in top teams worldwide.

The only reason why Birmingham are playing EL is because they won a cup against Arsenal remember? if not they would not be playing EL and doing terribly I might add, maybe it would have been best if they lost the cup so that then you would have a decent team representing england, you know only like Everton so that Benfica could destroy them 0-5 in England again.

Do not even mention common sense as you do not have one. your statement about Birmingham and how they would rate shows not only that but a complete lack of knowledge on how SM do their ratings and comes from a very British sense that you are better than everybody else. If it was not for foreigner players brightening up the EPL you would have championship football level being played in EPL and you would not rate even 8th in the ratings. Just look at how your NT plays.

yes the ratings are very important for anyone that knows a thing or two about football so yes the predictions being based on that rise is more than correct. the football has other views about things and works in different ways other than the ones that go through your mind. Maybe you should actually take time to try to understand how things actually work as you are very far from getting any of it.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Rekall on another one of his rants.... :D

im sorry mate but i just could not help myself :o como'n, I give you some credit you know what you talk about and I have read some pretty good post by you, *** is this post?

I love football, Im passionate about football, and love to debate football with people that know what they are talking about. I find it very offensive when people do ridiculous comparisons like that. How would you feel if I came on here comparing the EPL with the French second league saying they are on the same level? And in the middle of doing this completely thrashed the whole basis of how european leagues are rated with my ignorant opinions and stated such things about the EL? comon!!! It only shows a lack of general knowledge about the game.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

im sorry mate but i just could not help myself :o como'n' date=' I give you some credit you know what you talk about and I have read some pretty good post by you, *** is this post?

I love football, Im passionate about football, and love to debate football with people that know what they are talking about. I find it very offensive when people do ridiculous comparisons like that. How would you feel if I came on here comparing the EPL with the French second league saying they are on the same level? And in the middle of doing this completely thrashed the whole basis of how european leagues are rated with my ignorant opinions and stated such things about the EL? comon!!! It only shows a lack of general knowledge about the game.[/quote']

It's okay mate, you don't need to explain yourself to me :) The comparison between the Championship and the Portuguese top flight was not too clever, although he did say with the exception of the big three (Porto, Benfica, Sporting). Even so, the Portuguese league is far superior in technical terms than the Championship. But you could argue that a lot of those teams would struggle in the Championship (excluding the big three again). It's all a matter of opinion though, that's what makes these forums so popular. ;)

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

It's okay mate' date=' you don't need to explain yourself to me :) The comparison between the Championship and the Portuguese top flight was not too clever, although he did say with the exception of the big three (Porto, Benfica, Sporting). Even so, the Portuguese league is far superior in technical terms than the Championship. But you could argue that a lot of those teams would struggle in the Championship (excluding the big three again). It's all a matter of opinion though, that's what makes these forums so popular. ;)[/quote']

Mate IMO there is no way you can compare the top portuguese league with the championship. the only thing you can say about the top portuguese league is that you need some english referees to stop all the diving and rolling on the floor and time wasting that happens and makes it slightly boring to watch and very annoying. Apart from that the championship has nothing on the portuguese league. ;) It would be the same thing as saying that the championship is better than the french top league and they rate bellow us.;)

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

im sorry mate but i just could not help myself.....

I completely agree portuguese league is always underestimated.

But portuguese clubs are consistely net exporters of players, not last year nor the year before, but in the last decade to say the least.

I do find Derby's predictions a little streched on MATIC or EMERSON, should rise maybe +1 not +2, but in general predictions are accurate, IMO.

And that's from a Benfica fan.

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