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PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread


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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Facts:

Benfica:

European Cup Runner Up 5

European Cup Winner 2

Intercontinental Cup Runner Up 2

UEFA Cup Runner Up 1

Porto:

Intercontinental Cup Winner 2

UEFA Cup Winner 1

Champions League Winner 1

European Cup Winner 1

Europa League Winner 1

Cup Winners Cup Winner 1

Sporting:

Cup Winners Cup Winner 1

UEFA Cup Runner Up 1

Cup Winners Cup Runner Up 1

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After the checking the amount of comments in the main thread (despite my efforts to avoid having them there) and PM's both through the forum and in-game, I decided to create this thread so that you ca

Otavio only deserves a +1 I think. Braga have been dropping like a stone recently which may (and probably should) affect their review.  Rahul's predictions for the big 3 are fair, so for the othe

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread It has been a great journey since 2011, great people and great fun! And well, This is my forum post number 1000! I could

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

By the way' date=' if Benfica, Porto or Sporting were playing on French league, they would take top 5 spots every season.[/quote']

Bold statement, considering Sporting have finished around 30-40 points behind Porto over the last two seasons. Are you saying that Sporting are better than Lyon, Lille, Marseille & PSG?!

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Facts:

Benfica:

European Cup Runner Up 5

European Cup Winner 2

Intercontinental Cup Runner Up 2

UEFA Cup Runner Up 1

Porto:

Intercontinental Cup Winner 2

UEFA Cup Winner 1

Champions League Winner 1

European Cup Winner 1

Europa League Winner 1

Cup Winners Cup Winner 1

Sporting:

Cup Winners Cup Winner 1

UEFA Cup Runner Up 1

Cup Winners Cup Runner Up 1

as saying that it is only those three is not a valid argument as you can also say take away Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd and Chelsea what other english club has done particularly well outside england?

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Bold statement' date=' considering Sporting have finished around 30-40 points behind Porto over the last two seasons. Are you saying that Sporting are better than Lyon, Lille, Marseille & PSG?![/quote']

I was about to say the same thing, lolol, but Sporting are getting a lot better this year and on a 11 game wining streak, if they keep their manager (will prob go porto) next year they will be a force to reckon with yet again. :) they have bough some very good players but need time to gel together. They are getting there though.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

The only reason why Birmingham are playing EL is because they won a cup against Arsenal remember? if not they would not be playing EL and doing terribly I might add

level on points with braga i think?

Chamberlain best players in the championship last year' date=' [/quote']

obviously you were watching league one, not the championship then.

to be honest, you took way too much umbridge with what I said and if you actually read what I wrote properly then you might care to realise that i said that outside the top 3 clubs that the rest of portugal is comparitively as strong as the championship. im afraid that much is true, a claim that can be backed up by birmingham doing as terribly in the EL as braga, portugal's 4th best team? there's really no need for you to quote hulk, james rodriguez, coentrao etc etc since I was not basing any comparison with the big three, but whatever. those are good players that would get in most of the top six sides in england. outside of the big three i dont know too many players that could get in an EPL team, never mind a top end championship one. that isnt being a 'typical british, we're better than anyone else attitude' its a fact.

im quite sure a few birmingham players would get in many of the other 12 average teams that make up the portuguese league, and thats even giving special mention for braga, who are better than average. even SM would agree with me if the rating system is anything to go on, birmingham would be the 5th best team if they were playing in portugal.

im not going to rumble on. i dont actually think english football is better than any league either, that was a bit judgemental and half witted of you to say that. i really enjoy german football at the moment, and imo is the best league in europe at the moment. certainly the most competitive. england and spain are too predictable and boring.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

level on points with braga i think?

obviously you were watching league one' date=' not the championship then.

to be honest, you took way too much umbridge with what I said and if you actually read what I wrote properly then you might care to realise that i said that outside the top 3 clubs that the rest of portugal is comparitively as strong as the championship. im afraid that much is true, a claim that can be backed up by birmingham doing as terribly in the EL as braga, portugal's 4th best team? there's really no need for you to quote hulk, james rodriguez, coentrao etc etc since I was not basing any comparison with the big three, but whatever. those are good players that would get in most of the top six sides in england. outside of the big three i dont know too many players that could get in an EPL team, never mind a top end championship one. that isnt being a 'typical british, we're better than anyone else attitude' its a fact.

im quite sure a few birmingham players would get in many of the other 12 average teams that make up the portuguese league, and thats even giving special mention for braga, who are better than average. even SM would agree with me if the rating system is anything to go on, birmingham would be the 5th best team if they were playing in portugal.

im not going to rumble on. i dont actually think english football is better than any league either, that was a bit judgemental and half witted of you to say that. i really enjoy german football at the moment, and imo is the best league in europe at the moment. certainly the most competitive. england and spain are too [b']predictable and boring[/b].

England predictable? oh dear.

Last season the small teams was beating big teams quite often. The final day of the season was anything but boring. This season, City beating United 6-1 predictable? United beating Arsenal 8-2 predictable? QPR beating Chelsea? Blackburn beating Arsenal? Norwich outplaying United at old trafford. Theres alot more

Troll alert :) Added to ignore list aswell cause your an idiot.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

level on points with braga i think?

obviously you were watching league one' date=' not the championship then.

to be honest, you took way too much umbridge with what I said and if you actually read what I wrote properly then you might care to realise that i said that outside the top 3 clubs that the rest of portugal is comparitively as strong as the championship. im afraid that much is true, a claim that can be backed up by birmingham doing as terribly in the EL as braga, portugal's 4th best team? there's really no need for you to quote hulk, james rodriguez, coentrao etc etc since I was not basing any comparison with the big three, but whatever. those are good players that would get in most of the top six sides in england. outside of the big three i dont know too many players that could get in an EPL team, never mind a top end championship one. that isnt being a 'typical british, we're better than anyone else attitude' its a fact.

im quite sure a few birmingham players would get in many of the other 12 average teams that make up the portuguese league, and thats even giving special mention for braga, who are better than average. even SM would agree with me if the rating system is anything to go on, birmingham would be the 5th best team if they were playing in portugal.

im not going to rumble on. i dont actually think english football is better than any league either, that was a bit judgemental and half witted of you to say that. i really enjoy german football at the moment, and imo is the best league in europe at the moment. certainly the most competitive. england and spain are too predictable and boring.[/quote']

"even SM would agree with me if the rating system is anything to go on, birmingham would be the 5th best team if they were playing in portugal" can this have have anything to do with the fact that they were playing EPL last season that is listed 1st in the ratings and also managed to win some silverware? Besides Portugal was listed 6th in the ratings last year but has gone up to 5th since? Dont worry Birmingham players ratings will drop soon enough.

Where do you think these players play before they make it in the top three Portuguese teams? they just magically grow on trees that we plant in our gardens? where do you think they get playing time at? Playing five aside or Sunday League?

"outside of the big three i dont know too many players that could get in an EPL team, never mind a top end championship one." there you go you do not know the Portuguese league in dept therefore should refrain from making such statements based solely on your assumptions. I will name you a few god players playing in other teams, some of them are on loan from the top best teams: Sami and Baba (Maritimo), Hugo Viana, Helder Barbosa, Vinicious (Braga), Urreta and Edgar (Guimaraes), Danilo Dias, Olbertam, (Maritimo), Danilo (Academica), Wilson Eduardo (Olhanense), Mateus (Nacional), Atsu and Kelvin Mateus (Rio Ave), Melgarejo (P. Ferreira) and this is just to name a few.

Just because from all the talented players playing in Portugal, English clubs go and pick the worst ones ie: Man Utd signing Bebe :rolleyes:, does not mean that there are not quality players in the top portuguese league. You just do not know where to look.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

So many words! :( I read through all of it, but honestly I haven't got the patience to elaborate a giant answer. I'll just stick to the basics:

Yes, the French league is more attractive than the Portuguese. Their country is richer, meaning there is more money involved in their league; the stadiums have perceptibly better crowds than ours specially when it comes to smaller teams; their competitiveness is higher, there are 4/5 teams which can effectively fight for the title, we only got two in the past years (sorry Sporting)...

Now, should the Portuguese top clubs be rated at least equally to their French counterparts? Of course! The only real point of comparison between different leagues is in European competitions. And France can't touch us ATM, and probably never will. I mean, just look at the facts: European knock-outs between both countries are almost always on our favour. Last season a mediocre Sporting won against French champions Lille without breaking a sweat. So how's it possible that Lille has a rating cap of 91 or 92 while Sporting has to stick with a 90? Ok, some results might be surprising and that's football. But in a very recent past Porto defeated Lyon, Benfica eliminated PSG and Marseille, Sporting won against Lille... It doesn't make sense that the French ratings are higher. Besides, the Portuguese League has had 92 and 93 rated players before, it wouldn't be anything out of ordinary to have them again.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

"Besides, the Portuguese League has had 92 and 93 rated players before, it wouldn't be anything out of ordinary to have them again."

It would be only fair IMO, players like Moutinho and Hulk have deserved a higher rating for time now. Even Falcao with everything that he accomplished last year did not rise over 91 just because he was playing in the Portuguese league. Very unfair.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

thanks dp. i see what you mean. it is a bit harsh that given the success of the top portuguese teams that its surprising that the rating caps are'nt higher. this is what im trying to understand...is the cap set how it is in portugal because that is SM's view of the strength of the league overall? otherwise surely Porto, Benfica and Sporting should achieve the same cap as Lille, as you suggest.

you would probably say that france is stronger and more of an even playing field throughout the league...BUT...in the past 5 seasons france has produced 13 different teams to play in europe and in comparison portugal has produced 11. so, you look at that i suppose and say there isnt much difference. if france was a stronger competition then it would have a greater number of teams playing in europe over the past 5 years. as you point out, portugal's teams' record in europe stands up pretty well against most leagues.

I suppose if there isn't an increase in either the ratings of the other teams and/or the cap for the top ones then SM probably has a somewhat traditional ranking of the leagues - that being the best leagues are england, italy, spain, germany and france and stick to their own theories rather than anything else (i.e the coefficient league ranking). it'd be a shame if thats the case though, leagues should definitely move with the times I agree with that. I still think france is a stronger competition than portugal but maybe i'm just being traditionalist?! i hope you're right though, and good work with the ratings, i hope gaitan gets the +2! sorry for the long post.

Where do you think these players play before they make it in the top three Portuguese teams? they just magically grow on trees

lol' date=' shame they dont! :)

Just because from all the talented players playing in Portugal, English clubs go and pick the worst ones ie: Man Utd signing Bebe :rolleyes:, does not mean that there are not quality players in the top portuguese league. You just do not know where to look.

actually thats a really good point. btw, hugo viana really has improved since he played over here. to be fair he was very young when he made the move and it was probably a culture shock, but he's turned into a great player the past few seasons. I rate olberdam actually, he's a player i've always picked up in footie manager, has some good stats.

It would be only fair IMO' date=' players like Moutinho and Hulk have deserved a higher rating for time now. Even Falcao with everything that he accomplished last year did not rise over 91 just because he was playing in the Portuguese league. Very unfair.[/quote']

hulk should be a 92. and luisao aswell i think. actually, i think hulk is as good as mario gomez...gomez could go 94 next review which is probably right...but he isnt 3 rating points better than hulk imo.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

European knock-outs between both countries are almost always on our favour.

That's my point.

Also, I remember a few years ago when Benfica played AWAY in Lille, with 30.000+ supporters. That was a very powerful sign of strengh for portuguese football.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

just bought this dude guys!!

Ricky VAN WOLFSWINKEL - 87 rated AM/CF from Sporting CP.

1. what rating will he achieve in the impending rating update?

2. and by the end of the 2011/2012 season?

3. Is he better than Luuk DE JONG you guys think? (of Twente) - I am thinking of selling him as both DE JONG and RVW play AM/FWD (well, RVW is AM/CF)

thanks in advance!

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

just bought this dude guys!!

Ricky VAN WOLFSWINKEL - 87 rated AM/CF from Sporting CP.

1. what rating will he achieve in the impending rating update?

2. and by the end of the 2011/2012 season?

3. Is he better than Luuk DE JONG you guys think? (of Twente) - I am thinking of selling him as both DE JONG and RVW play AM/FWD (well' date=' RVW is AM/CF)

thanks in advance![/quote']

both will hit max 89 by end of season.... probably 88 at this review

but wolfie boy is linked with pool and man u... so probably a better bet

personally i like dejong though

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

thanks dp. i see what you mean. it is a bit harsh that given the success of the top portuguese teams that its surprising that the rating caps are'nt higher. this is what im trying to understand...is the cap set how it is in portugal because that is SM's view of the strength of the league overall? otherwise surely Porto' date=' Benfica and Sporting should achieve the same cap as Lille, as you suggest.

you would probably say that france is stronger and more of an even playing field throughout the league...BUT...in the past 5 seasons france has produced 13 different teams to play in europe and in comparison portugal has produced 11. so, you look at that i suppose and say there isnt much difference. if france was a stronger competition then it would have a greater number of teams playing in europe over the past 5 years. as you point out, portugal's teams' record in europe stands up pretty well against most leagues.

I suppose if there isn't an increase in either the ratings of the other teams and/or the cap for the top ones then SM probably has a somewhat traditional ranking of the leagues - that being the best leagues are england, italy, spain, germany and france and stick to their own theories rather than anything else (i.e the coefficient league ranking). it'd be a shame if thats the case though, leagues should definitely move with the times I agree with that. I still think france is a stronger competition than portugal but maybe i'm just being traditionalist?! i hope you're right though, and good work with the ratings, i hope gaitan gets the +2! sorry for the long post.

lol, shame they dont! :)

actually thats a really good point. btw, hugo viana really has improved since he played over here. to be fair he was very young when he made the move and it was probably a culture shock, but he's turned into a great player the past few seasons. I rate olberdam actually, he's a player i've always picked up in footie manager, has some good stats.

hulk should be a 92. and luisao aswell i think. actually, i think hulk is as good as mario gomez...gomez could go 94 next review which is probably right...but he isnt 3 rating points better than hulk imo.[/quote']

SM goes by stats... and to answer your question it's by eufa coefficient. they dont do things by "opinion"

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

just bought this dude guys!!

Ricky VAN WOLFSWINKEL - 87 rated AM/CF from Sporting CP.

1. what rating will he achieve in the impending rating update?

2. and by the end of the 2011/2012 season?

3. Is he better than Luuk DE JONG you guys think? (of Twente) - I am thinking of selling him as both DE JONG and RVW play AM/FWD (well' date=' RVW is AM/CF)

thanks in advance![/quote']

both will hit max 89 by end of season.... probably 88 at this review

but wolfie boy is linked with pool and man u... so probably a better bet

personally i like dejong though

I agree with the second post. Also, you should bear in mind that Wolfs will lose his AM position.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

I agree with the second post. Also' date=' you should bear in mind that Wolfs will lose his AM position.[/quote']
both will hit max 89 by end of season.... probably 88 at this review

but wolfie boy is linked with pool and man u... so probably a better bet

personally i like dejong though

thanks fellas!

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Hey DP' date=' whats your opinion of Franco Jara? I know he is not currently playing in Portugal but from what you have seen of him how do you rate him and do you think he has a future at Benfica?[/font']

Honestly? I don't think he's one for the future. He might turn out to be a decent player, but I'd rather have Rodrigo and Nelson Oliveira instead. And I doubt he'll have much chances in the team, even though Benfica made a large investment on him.

Any1 please ..?

If you gave yourself the trouble of checking the predictions you wouldn't have to wait for an answer.

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Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

"actually thats a really good point. btw, hugo viana really has improved since he played over here. to be fair he was very young when he made the move and it was probably a culture shock, but he's turned into a great player the past few seasons."

Mate i'm pretty much the same age as Hugo Viana and at Academy level Hugo Viana was regarded as the most complete midfielder playing at Academy level in Portugal, and I'm talking about Sporting Lisbon the only Academy in the World to have produced two different Ballon d'Or winners, Luis Figo and Cristiano Ronaldo. Hugo Viana was seen as the heir to Paulo Sousa in the NT and regarded as one of the biggest Portuguese prospects. I played against him a couple of times and the man was amazing when he was younger, so in a way you can say that he never really fulfilled all his potential and what people tipped him to become, very much so because of the poor decisions he made in his career like going to england too early.

When you say that there is no talent in the top portuguese league apart from the top three let me give the example of my hometown club back in Portugal called FC Alverca. Some portuguese forumers will remember them, most non portuguese forumers will not have a clue who im talking about. But i will give you a list of players and where they played after FC Alverca that might make you change your mind about the rest of the Portuguese teams and the players that play there. Some of these players played for FC Alverca in the second Portuguese league and the majority where on loan from bigger clubs.

Sergei Ovchinnikov (Benfica, Porto, Russia NT)

Vasili Kulkov (Benfica, Porto, Russia NT)

Mantorras (Benfica, Angola NT)

Emílio Peixe (Benfica, Porto Portugal NT)

Deco (Benfica, Porto, Barcelona, Chelsea, Portugal NT)

Ricardo Carvalho (Porto, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Portugal NT)

Maniche (Benfica, Porto, Dynamo Moskow, Chelsea, Atletico Madrid, Portugal)

Nuno Assis (Benfica, Vitoria Guimaraes, Portugal NT)

Marco Caneira (Sporting, Inter Milan, Benfica, Bordeux, Valencia, Portugal)

Bruno Aguiar (Benfica, Hearts, Portugal U21)

Bruno Basto (Benfica, Bordeux, Feyenoord, Portugal U21)

Hugo Leal (Benfica, Atletico Madrid, PSG, Porto, Braga, Portugal U21 and NT)

Do not forget we are talking about a club you probably never heard of untill now. ;)

Another good example is Nani, he was playing for Real Massama in the secondary divisions in Portugal and in three years went from there to playing for Sporting Lisbon and then Manchester Utd, only three years it took him to go from a secondary league in Portugal to one of the biggest teams in the World. ;)

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