PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

[beef-supreme 98]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Pereira played more' date=' won Portuguese championship, and advanced in WC.

Deserved.[/quote']

Sapunaru should not have stayed though. He has been instrumental as part of the Porto side that opened up a 10 point gap over Benfica. He's also played for Romania in the Euro qualifiers. There's no way in hell he didn't deserve a +1 to regain his 88, which he lost mainly because he was suspended in the first place (and it's not like he played bad for Rapid when he was on loan there)

[Orgulho Azuk 15]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Sapunaru is the holder of the RB Porto

won a place at Fucile

need I say more?

[Gizb 4,191]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

I would think it was fair to drop Mariano. Yes' date=' he's injured, but Porto didn't have a very good season last year and the last time he played was when he took part in not so great performances. Now, I just don't see how he will possibly regain his place in the Porto lineup. The team is excellent in midfield and in the forward trident, and has plenty of (young) strength in reserve. He'll probably move on as a free agent, or at least that would be my guess, but I'm not an expert.[/quote']

As far as i know, the previous ratings revisions in Portugal were after the end of Portuguese league. If SM considered at that time his performances were not so good they could have dropped him. In this new season he was always injured and couldn't fight for his place. SM should have been conservative has they have been with Hargreaves and/or others.. Cristian Rodriguez was linked with a move to Atletico Madrid in January or in Summer..

Pereira played more this season' date=' won Portuguese championship, and advanced in WC.

Deserved.

Sapunaru only played 7 games and hardly impressed in the WC...by not being there.[/quote']

If he had to rose to 90, was last season, not now. How a player that have a negative average performances this season, in a team performing bad(10 points behind in league, out of CL in a group very similar of an Europa League group, a team that lost 8 of last 18 games..) and manages to increase is beyond me. His performances at WC, the 4th place of Uruguay were because of him? His exibitions were regular but not as an 90 standard. And he played that amount of games because he has no competition at Benfica, and the player that might fight with him for a place, Ruben Amorim, was in the majority of the time injured.

Sapunaru played just 7 league games, more the 4 games in the Europa league and also won the Portuguese Super Cup and is playing better. Put also on bench the starter of the same Uruguay in WC that was the previous starter of Porto too. He is also the starter of one of the best teams in Europe right now. Don't forget that he and Hulk were banned from Portuguese football a lot of time during the last season and he had to be loaned out to a Romanian club to play. If you look to the defensive records, you see that Benfica suffered 5 goals against Porto, 3 yesterday, 3 against Lyon in the last 4 games.. and even with that managed to have all the defenders at least 90rated..

[Safir 7,524]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

His performances at WC' date=' the 4th place of Uruguay were because of him?

Sapunaru ... is also the starter of one of the best teams in Europe right now. [/quote']

1. Either you don't know how the ratings system works or you're just playing dumb. We all know an individual's contribution to the team is outweighed by the team's actual success by SM...

2. You're post lost all credibility in that second argument...

[Safir 7,524]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Sapunaru is the holder of the RB Porto

won a place at Fucile

need I say more?

Bale goes around Maicon rated 96, raping him repeatedly in the CL games. Why is Bale not 97?

"need I say more?

no comments :rolleyes:"

/sarcasm

--

Your arguments are so terrible.

[FabianDelphAVFC 229]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

You're arguments are so terrible.

grammar police!

[Safir 7,524]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

grammar police!

I need a few minutes to fix those

I had 2 in my original post, did you find the other?

[Hayden19 6,995]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Bale goes around Maicon rated 96' date=' raping him repeatedly in the CL games. Why is Bale not 97?

"need I say more?

no comments :rolleyes:"

/sarcasm

--

Your arguments are so terrible.[/quote']

poor comment safir tbh , Bale beat Maicon several times because Maicon is more of a wingback and hardly defends , he's always forward.

Maicon's constant running is no good , this is why any player can beat him..

Mantovani (87) Beat Maicon (96) so much , need i say more

i know alot of other players that can easily beat maicon..

[Gizb 4,191]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

1. Either you don't know how the ratings system works or you're just playing dumb. We all know an individual's contribution to the team is outweighed by the team's actual success by SM...

2. You're post lost all credibility in that second argument...

Be a starter in a semi finalist NT doesn't mean you have been good or better than you previously were' date=' his performances weren't as good as the place his country got on the end, so that's not a reason to increase him..

If Porto aren't one of the best European teams for you right now, seriously, stop playing PS3/Xbox and start watch football of the real world...

[Nat Murdo 219]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Does Henrique Walter have potencial to become good as Hulk and Falcao?

[Safir 7,524]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Be a starter in a semi finalist NT doesn't mean you have been good or better than you previously were' date=' his performances weren't as good as the place his country got on the end, so that's not a reason to increase him..

If Porto aren't one of the best European teams for you right now, seriously, stop playing PS3/Xbox and start watch football of the real world...

Being a starter for a lot of teams doesn't mean you're very good. Nevertheless, he's the starter and as far as SM are concerned, is playing the games for a team that advances fairly deep in the WC.

As a matter of fact, a lot of players didn't perform very well in the WC even though they started. Tough luck, an individual's singular performances aren't the only factor when looking at their ratings changes.

I'm not sure where you base that Porto argument. Dominating a much weaker league in Portugal hardly counts as a sign of utter dominance of European football. Or perhaps you'd like to suggest that Europa League is more prestigious than the Champions League?

[Safir 7,524]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

poor comment safir tbh ' date=' Bale beat Maicon several times because Maicon is more of a wingback and hardly defends , he's always forward.

Maicon's constant running is no good , this is why any player can beat him..

Mantovani (87) Beat Maicon (96) so much , need i say more

i know alot of other players that can easily beat maicon..[/quote']

Hayden, did you read my post to the end?

...

That should explain you my post...

[Gizb 4,191]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Being a starter for a lot of teams doesn't mean you're very good. Nevertheless' date=' he's the starter and as far as SM are concerned, is playing the games for a team that advances fairly deep in the WC.

As a matter of fact, a lot of players didn't perform very well in the WC even though they started. Tough luck, an individual's singular performances aren't the only factor when looking at their ratings changes.

I'm not sure where you base that Porto argument. Dominating a much weaker league in Portugal hardly counts as a sign of utter dominance of European football. Or perhaps you'd like to suggest that Europa League is more prestigious than the Champions League?[/quote']

When we are talking about players of this calibre(and rating), we have to weight more his performances than the fact of being starter. Zanetti played 137 consecutive games and plays for the 5 consecutive Italian champions and for the CL last year winners and is only 94 rated, due to his performances.

Dominate and win by 1-0 without flame is one thing, dominate and destroy is other. Don't forget Porto won against the 2 Portuguese teams that are in CL..

Is a weaker league, but this season, is the 3rd country that got more points to the UEFA ranking. Not been in the best European competition doesn't mean you aren't one of the best teams right now.

And don't forget one important thing, our clubs are from the people and not from a richer person.

[Safir 7,524]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

When we are talking about players of this calibre(and rating)' date=' we have to weight more his performances than the fact of being starter. Zanetti played 137 consecutive games and plays for the 5 consecutive Italian champions and for the CL last year winners and is [i']only[/i] 94 rated, due to his performances.

Dominate and win by 1-0 without flame is one thing, dominate and destroy is other. Don't forget Porto won against the 2 Portuguese teams that are in CL..

Is a weaker league, but this season, is the 3rd country that got more points to the UEFA ranking. Not been in the best European competition doesn't mean you aren't one of the best teams right now.

And don't forget one important thing, our clubs are from the people and not from a richer person.

One of the best generally means in the top 4-5 clubs in Europe. Are you seriously telling me Porto is in the top 5 European clubs right now?

94 requires performance. 90 requires much less. Big difference.

[Gizb 4,191]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

One of the best generally means in the top 4-5 clubs in Europe. Are you seriously telling me Porto is in the top 5 European clubs right now?

94 requires performance. 90 requires much less. Big difference.

And a 90 will become a banal rating

In game's quality are near there

[Radebe20 8,236]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

One of the best generally means in the top 4-5 clubs in Europe. Are you seriously telling me Porto is in the top 5 European clubs right now?

94 requires performance. 90 requires much less. Big difference.

If all 90 requires is appearances and to play for a decent club, then maybe you would care to explain why Lucas has not been rated 90 for the last 2 seasons.

Maxi should be 89, Sapunaru 88.

[Safir 7,524]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

If all 90 requires is appearances and to play for a decent club' date=' then maybe you would care to explain why Lucas has not been rated 90 for the last 2 seasons.

Maxi should be 89, Sapunaru 88.[/quote']

Maxi is getting there gradually...

Pereira has WC success so 90 is fine.

You guys are just making me repeat the same things now...

[Radebe20 8,236]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Maxi is getting there gradually...

Pereira has WC success so 90 is fine.

You guys are just making me repeat the same things now...

Maxi and Pereira are the same person. Do you even know what you're talking about here? The only success Maxi had at the WC was that Uruguay have no decent right backs.

[Skarmory 6,000]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Maxi and Pereira are the same person. Do you even know what you're talking about here? The only success Maxi had at the WC was that Uruguay have no decent right backs.

I think he's referring to Alvaro Pereira, when saying Pereira.

But I didn't even know Maxi got 90, completely unwarranted IMO.

[beef-supreme 98]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Maxi and Pereira are the same person. Do you even know what you're talking about here? The only success Maxi had at the WC was that Uruguay have no decent right backs.

Lol he doesn't really know what he's talking about

[Safir 7,524]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Maxi and Pereira are the same person. Do you even know what you're talking about here? The only success Maxi had at the WC was that Uruguay have no decent right backs.

Never mind, I was going through two threads, one of which I was talking about Maxi Rodriguez.

Radebe, you're the expert and all, but here you're dead wrong if you're telling me that a deep WC performance of the team doesn't positively affect one's rating. Even if that individual just happened to be there by default.

[Radebe20 8,236]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

Never mind' date=' I was going through two threads, one of which I was talking about Maxi Rodriguez.

Radebe, you're the expert and all, but here you're dead wrong if you're telling me that a deep WC performance of the team doesn't positively affect one's rating. Even if that individual just happened to be there by default.[/quote']

No I agree, playing in the WC will positively affect a rating, to a certain extent. An example, Emile Heskey, should he get 90 next changes? David James?

Looking at it a different way... Diego Perez had a great WC imo for Uruguay, but will he get 90? No, he won't even get 89.

[andyowls 11,740]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

No I agree' date=' playing in the WC will positively affect a rating, to a certain extent. An example, Emile Heskey, should he get 90 next changes? David James?

Looking at it a different way... Diego Perez had a great WC imo for Uruguay, but will he get 90? No, he won't even get 89.[/quote']

You're being a bit awkward there, just for the sake of it....

[Safir 7,524]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

No I agree' date=' playing in the WC will positively affect a rating, to a certain extent. An example, Emile Heskey, should he get 90 next changes? David James?

Looking at it a different way... Diego Perez had a great WC imo for Uruguay, but will he get 90? No, he won't even get 89.[/quote']

I was never arguing about why someone else did or did not get a rise and whether or not that was reasonable. I'm just saying that in terms of statistics and tangible achievements, Pereira had the ingredients for a rise, which SM granted him.

Now, as for all these other folks, I haven't done any research on them, except for Sapunaru. Sapunaru plays for an inferior national side (obviously that's arguable, but I'm taking into account the fact that Uruguay progressed far in WC and Romania wasn't in the WC), and played 7 league games for Porto as opposed to Pereira's 10 games or so. We have to understand that SM raters can't watch every game of football to get an accurate estimation of an individual's real contribution for all players.

As for Heskey and James, they were a part of a team that didn't advance far in the WC. In addition, Heskey doesn't play all the games for Villa and James has dropped down a division. Plenty of reasons why their situations are incomparable with Pereira's.

As for the rating 90, folks keep changing my post. I said originally that getting a 90 requires less in terms of performance than getting a 94. I have no idea how some folks began interpreting that simple and obvious comment in some completely opposite way.

[DerbyPower 6,071]

Re: PORTUGAL – 1st and 2nd Division extensive thread - Discussion Thread

I was never arguing about why someone else did or did not get a rise and whether or not that was reasonable. I'm just saying that in terms of statistics and tangible achievements' date=' Pereira had the ingredients for a rise, which SM granted him.

Now, as for all these other folks, [b']I haven't done any research on them, except for Sapunaru[/b]. Sapunaru plays for an inferior national side (obviously that's arguable, but I'm taking into account the fact that Uruguay progressed far in WC and Romania wasn't in the WC), and played 7 games for Porto as opposed to Pereira's 10 games or so. We have to understand that SM raters can't watch every game of football to get an accurate estimation of an individual's real contribution for all players.

As for Heskey and James, they were a part of a team that didn't advance far in the WC. In addition, Heskey doesn't play all the games for Villa and James has dropped down a division. Plenty of reasons why their situations are incomparable with Pereira's.

As for the rating 90, folks keep changing my post. I said originally that getting a 90 requires less in terms of performance than getting a 94. I have no idea how some folks began interpreting that simple and obvious comment in some completely opposite way.

Really? You did some research on Sapunaru? I think not. Sapunaru took part in 14 games for Porto so far. Twice than those that you mention. And of course, you still have the Qualifiers with Romania.

Now let's see... He is an international, and sat another international on the bench (Fucile). Does it make any sense at all that he stayed as an 87, when I can say with full confidence that he and Joao Pereira are the best RBs in Portugal at the moment? No. At the very least he should have rose to 88, or quite rightly to 89.

The comparison to Maxi Pereira is ludicrous. In my honest opinion Maxi can't hold a candle to Sapunaru, although I admit he did have enough game time to be awarded a rise. Also, Sapunaru is incredibly regular and solid, specially in the big matches, whereas Maxi got raped a lot of times this season already. For example, Sapunaru had an excellent performance against 5enfica this season. In the same game, Maxi Pereira was nothing short of mediocre. If I recall correctly, Sapunaru was suspended for most of the 2009/2010 season (and was sent on loan to Rapid), but he performed admirably two seasons ago as well, specially in the Champions League against Atletico and United, where he put Simao (93) and Ronaldo (98) in his pocket. My point? Sapunaru justified a higher rating even before this change took place.

I hope that this bit of explanation puts an end to the discussion.