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Re: UFC Official Thread

Quite honestly' date=' I'd have to say Jones is the greatest Light Heavyweight of all-time.

It feels awkward saying it, because he's only been around for a few years but what he has done in those few years is nothing short of incredible really.

Vera, Rua, Rampage, Machida, Rashad, Belfort, Sonnen, Gustafsson.

He's beat legends and he's beat up-and-comers.

He's done all of this in arguably the most stacked division as well.

I don't see anyone challenging him unless he steps up to Heavyweight. Even then, it'll only be the weight that is an issue and given his ridiculous frame he could easily pack on 30lbs of solid muscle.[/quote']

Jones walks around at 230lbs so i don't see the weight being much of an issue at heavyweight.

Your right though he is one of the best Light heavyweights of all time already.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Quite honestly' date=' I'd have to say Jones is the greatest Light Heavyweight of all-time.

It feels awkward saying it, because he's only been around for a few years but what he has done in those few years is nothing short of incredible really.

Vera, Rua, Rampage, Machida, Rashad, Belfort, Sonnen, Gustafsson.

He's beat legends and he's beat up-and-comers.

He's done all of this in arguably the most stacked division as well.

I don't see anyone challenging him unless he steps up to Heavyweight. Even then, it'll only be the weight that is an issue and given his ridiculous frame he could easily pack on 30lbs of solid muscle.[/quote']

Thank you. Someone who can see jones for how he really is... :D

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Greatest light heavyweight of all time? Saaaaaay it! :D:P

Haha he beats Cormier and i will announce him as the greatest ever Light Heavyweight :P

I do think he probably already is but there is definitely no arguing the case if he beats Cormier.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Greatest light heavyweight of all time? Saaaaaay it! :D:P

Lol, I don't know what you think your trying to squeeze from us. I would also have to say that from his record he would have to be considered the best in light heavyweight history but it's not clear cut as Shogun has done incredible things at light heavy.

I agree with what Guerilla says lol, apart from light heavy being the most stacked division, it isn't even close to being that IMO. If you look at lightweight it's just the murderers row of talent most of them being PRIME fighters instead of over the hill dudes, emaciated heavyweights, fat middleweights. I would also put middleweight above light heavy in how stacked it is.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Lol' date=' I don't know what you think your trying to squeeze from us. I would also have to say that from his record he would have to be considered the best in light heavyweight history but it's not clear cut as Shogun has done incredible things at light heavy.

I agree with what Guerilla says lol, apart from light heavy being the most stacked division, it isn't even close to being that IMO. If you look at lightweight it's just the murderers row of talent most of them being PRIME fighters instead of over the hill dudes, emaciated heavyweights, fat middleweights. I would also put middleweight above light heavy in how stacked it is.[/quote']

That is one of my problem's as well at committing to him being the greatest ever LHW, Shogun absolutely killed it and then got messed up bad with injuries. His time training at Chute Box with Wand etc i think definitely took time off his career.

You make a very good point about lightweight that i had never given much thought too, after looking at all the divisions i would have to agree the lightweight si the most stacked.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

I say it because it's true' date=' there is more to MMA than the UFC. Not too sure how hard that is too understand[/b'] :confused:

My references on the subject have been to do with the GOAT debate. There have been and still are other promotions that have landscaped MMA as a sport, arguably just as much as the UFC in terms of Pride. I have never said that the UFC isn't the biggest now or that the majority of the best fighters don't fight for the UFC. To talk about the GOAT you have to look at the history of MMA which is more than the UFC.

I have no idea what your saying here.

No one is disagreeing that Jones is a Phenomenal fighter, that he is the best in the light heavyweight division or that he is the best active MMA fighter at the moment. There is a difference to all of those and being the GOAT however.

Yes it's true there are loads of organizations who have great fighters thing is they all pretty much end up in the ufc if they are good enough. We've seen loads of fighters come from different organizations to the UFC and fail though.

I don't really have a good memory at all but can you name fighters from 5 other promotions who's good enough to succeed in the ufc at a high level top 10 any division i just can't think i've pretty much forgotten ufc 172 already.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Anyone see what they done on UFC Tonight were they asked Chael and Florian to make up a card?

Florian:

Aldo vs. Pettis, Jones vs. Gustafsson, Rousey vs. Cyborg, Swanson vs. McGregor.

Sonnen:

Weidman vs. Evans, Velasquez vs. Cormier, Silva vs. Nick Diaz, B Henderson vs. Nurmagomedov

Florian may have went for the big fights but I would love to see Weidman vs Evans and Silva vs Nick Diaz.

Could anyone see Rashad moving down and having a go?

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Anyone see what they done on UFC Tonight were they asked Chael and Florian to make up a card?

Florian:

Aldo vs. Pettis' date=' Jones vs. Gustafsson, Rousey vs. Cyborg, Swanson vs. McGregor.

Sonnen:

Weidman vs. Evans, Velasquez vs. Cormier, Silva vs. Nick Diaz, B Henderson vs. Nurmagomedov

Florian may have went for the big fights but I would love to see Weidman vs Evans and Silva vs Nick Diaz.

Could anyone see Rashad moving down and having a go?[/quote']

Sonnen picked a beast card there but it ill only happen in ea ufc game.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Yes it's true there are loads of organizations who have great fighters thing is they all pretty much end up in the ufc if they are good enough. We've seen loads of fighters come from different organizations to the UFC and fail though.

I don't really have a good memory at all but can you name fighters from 5 other promotions who's good enough to succeed in the ufc at a high level top 10 any division i just can't think i've pretty much forgotten ufc 172 already.

1.Pat Curran

2.Eddie Alvarez

3.Michael Chandler

4.King Mo

5.Mahmed Khalidov

6.Marlon Moraes

7. Ben Askren

8.Alexander Shlemenko

9.Shinya Aoki

10.Daniel Straus

11.Paul Daley

12. Yushin Okami

13. Michael Page (not sure if he is devoting himself to MMA atm but he is excellent)

14. Mathew Riddle (when he isn't high)

I'm not sure how many promotions you have there as i don't want to play your game. I'm just listing guys that would do well in the UFC IMO. It looks to me a little bit like when the WEC lightweights came over.

The uninformed: Who are these guys? They'll never last in the UFC...

Well we all know how that turned out. Also the Strikforce guys have come across and done well too. There is a lot of talent out there despite the UFC trying to monopolize the sport.

There are many Bellator guys in that list but also some ONE FC, WSOF, BAMMA, KSW, Titan FC. So I guess Ive answered your question. Plus there will be guys I have forgotten or simply don't know of as I don't get to watch as much as I used too.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Yes it's true there are loads of organizations who have great fighters thing is they all pretty much end up in the ufc if they are good enough. We've seen loads of fighters come from different organizations to the UFC and fail though.

I don't really have a good memory at all but can you name fighters from 5 other promotions who's good enough to succeed in the ufc at a high level top 10 any division i just can't think i've pretty much forgotten ufc 172 already.

I'll put it in again as i'm not sure you saw it or understood it first time around.

My references on the subject have been to do with the GOAT debate. There have been and still are other promotions that have landscaped MMA as a sport' date=' arguably just as much as the UFC in terms of Pride. I have never said that the UFC isn't the biggest now or that the majority of the best fighters don't fight for the UFC. To talk about the GOAT you have to look at the history of MMA which is more than the UFC.

However with regards to today's MMA mousey has pretty much answered it.

1.Pat Curran

2.Eddie Alvarez

3.Michael Chandler

4.King Mo

5.Mahmed Khalidov

6.Marlon Moraes

7. Ben Askren

8.Alexander Shlemenko

9.Shinya Aoki

10.Daniel Straus

11.Paul Daley

12. Yushin Okami

13. Michael Page (not sure if he is devoting himself to MMA atm but he is excellent)

14. Mathew Riddle (when he isn't high)

I'm not sure how many promotions you have there as i don't want to play your game. I'm just listing guys that would do well in the UFC IMO. It looks to me a little bit like when the WEC lightweights came over.

The uninformed: Who are these guys? They'll never last in the UFC...

Well we all know how that turned out. Also the Strikforce guys have come across and done well too. There is a lot of talent out there despite the UFC trying to monopolize the sport.

There are many Bellator guys in that list but also some ONE FC, WSOF, BAMMA, KSW, Titan FC. So I guess Ive answered your question. Plus there will be guys I have forgotten or simply don't know of as I don't get to watch as much as I used too.

Really couldn't of put it better myself.

Love to see Aoki and Alvarez come across, have the rubber match between the two of them and have a rematch of Aoki and Gil.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

I'll put it in again as i'm not sure you saw it or understood it first time around.

My references on the subject have been to do with the GOAT debate. There have been and still are other promotions that have landscaped MMA as a sport' date=' arguably just as much as the UFC in terms of Pride. I have never said that the UFC isn't the biggest now or that the majority of the best fighters don't fight for the UFC. To talk about the GOAT you have to look at the history of MMA which is more than the UFC.

However with regards to today's MMA mousey has pretty much answered it.

Really couldn't of put it better myself.

Love to see Aoki and Alvarez come across, have the rubber match between the two of them and have a rematch of Aoki and Gil.[/quote']

Ok do it then lets see your view on the goat lhw who never fought in the ufc contenders?

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Re: UFC Official Thread

1.Pat Curran

2.Eddie Alvarez

3.Michael Chandler

4.King Mo

5.Mahmed Khalidov

6.Marlon Moraes

7. Ben Askren

8.Alexander Shlemenko

9.Shinya Aoki

10.Daniel Straus

11.Paul Daley

12. Yushin Okami

13. Michael Page (not sure if he is devoting himself to MMA atm but he is excellent)

14. Mathew Riddle (when he isn't high)

I'm not sure how many promotions you have there as i don't want to play your game. I'm just listing guys that would do well in the UFC IMO. It looks to me a little bit like when the WEC lightweights came over.

The uninformed: Who are these guys? They'll never last in the UFC...

Well we all know how that turned out. Also the Strikforce guys have come across and done well too. There is a lot of talent out there despite the UFC trying to monopolize the sport.

There are many Bellator guys in that list but also some ONE FC' date=' WSOF, BAMMA, KSW, Titan FC. So I guess Ive answered your question. Plus there will be guys I have forgotten or simply don't know of as I don't get to watch as much as I used too.[/quote']

WEC was the best promotion there was rarely a dull fight excluding Pride.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Ok do it then lets see your view on the goat lhw who never fought in the ufc contenders?

Your still not understanding my point at all.

Not once have i said that there are better Light Heavyweights who have never fought in the UFC.

My comments about looking outside of the UFC were in response to kirrkyLUFC bringing up Jones records and stats so far in relation to him being the GOAT. They definitely add weight to him being the GOAT at LHW and they will add weight to the discussion of him being the GOAT if he get's there.

However it is what he has achieved in the UFC and there are other fighters that are in and around the mix of either being the GOAT at LHW or the GOAT in MMA that have achieved things outside of the UFC. So when you look at say Jon Jones having the most significant strikes in history it is in UFC history.

A perfect example is Shogun. At one time he was being talked about no different than Jones is now. He was a pride GP winner at 23 and universally recognised as the best LHW in the world. A vicious young fighter that went in and looked to destroy his opponents, near enough always doing so.

Taking Shogun's stats and records from just his UFC career is unfair, you have to look at everything.

Another example of that is Wand, he was a killer in Pride and the first to win a belt and a GP. Taking just his UFC career would also be unfair.

Or if you want to talk about accomplishments in MMA then take Sakuraba as an example. If you don't know who he is and you just look at his record on paper then he might not seem that outstanding. However he is without a doubt one of the greatest light heavyweight/middleweight fighters ever. He only fought once in the UFC but even that was outstanding. Lying about his weight so that he could fight in the tournament he went onto fight a top heavyweight who outweighed him by something like 50lbs and Sakuraba beat him.

I'm tired of trying to explain it over and over so i'm going to leave it at that, if you still don't understand then i'm afraid i can't help you.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Your still not understanding my point at all.

Not once have i said that there are better Light Heavyweights who have never fought in the UFC.

My comments about looking outside of the UFC were in response to kirrkyLUFC bringing up Jones records and stats so far in relation to him being the GOAT. They definitely add weight to him being the GOAT at LHW and they will add weight to the discussion of him being the GOAT if he get's there.

However it is what he has achieved in the UFC and there are other fighters that are in and around the mix of either being the GOAT at LHW or the GOAT in MMA that have achieved things outside of the UFC. So when you look at say Jon Jones having the most significant strikes in history it is in UFC history.

A perfect example is Shogun. At one time he was being talked about no different than Jones is now. He was a pride GP winner at 23 and universally recognised as the best LHW in the world. A vicious young fighter that went in and looked to destroy his opponents' date=' near enough always doing so.

Taking Shogun's stats and records from just his UFC career is unfair, you have to look at everything.

Another example of that is Wand, he was a killer in Pride and the first to win a belt and a GP. Taking just his UFC career would also be unfair.

Or if you want to talk about accomplishments in MMA then take Sakuraba as an example. If you don't know who he is and you just look at his record on paper then he might not seem that outstanding. However he is without a doubt one of the greatest light heavyweight/middleweight fighters ever. He only fought once in the UFC but even that was outstanding. Lying about his weight so that he could fight in the tournament he went onto fight a top heavyweight who outweighed him by something like 50lbs and Sakuraba beat him.

I'm tired of trying to explain it over and over so i'm going to leave it at that, if you still don't understand then i'm afraid i can't help you.[/quote']

Thing is MMA wasn't evolved like it is now back then there were fighters Gilles Arsene. :rolleyes:

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Thing is MMA wasn't evolved like it is now back then there were fighters Gilles Arsene. :rolleyes:

That's the same for every single sport, every spot evolves over time. That argument just doesn't stand up at all.

Not sure what your reference to Gilles Arsene is in the context of the point your making. I can only guess it's to do with Sakuraba. He was in one of the worst mma fights ever with him.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

That's the same for every single sport' date=' every spot evolves over time. That argument just doesn't stand up at all.

Not sure what your reference to Gilles Arsene is in the context of the point your making. I can only guess it's to do with Sakuraba. He was in one of the worst mma fights ever with him.[/quote']

no sh1t sherlock

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Re: UFC Official Thread

no sh1t sherlock

Difference between mma evolution and other sports your not learning 6 different disciplines so yes it does stand up like a giant. :D

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Difference between mma evolution and other sports your not learning 6 different disciplines so yes it does stand up like a giant. :D

It really doesn't, you could be learning a million different disciplines and it still wouldn't make an ounce of difference.

If your an MMA fighter then generally the more disciplines you are better at the easier it is to get to the top. That's the same for every fighter.

In ten years time there will no doubt be someone else who is even more evolved in MMA and breaking all of Jon Jones records. Does that mean that what he has done now is devalued? No not in the slightest because he is fighting near to the top of what is the current state of evolution in the sport.

Just the same as when fighters were fighting it out 10 years ago or 15 years ago. Their accomplishments are measured against how well they did in that time frame.

As an example would you say that what Royce Gracie accomplished to begin the UFC is rubbish because fighters are more evolved now?

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Re: UFC Official Thread

It really doesn't' date=' you could be learning a million different disciplines and it still wouldn't make an ounce of difference.

If your an MMA fighter then generally the more disciplines you are better at the easier it is to get to the top. That's the same for every fighter.

In ten years time there will no doubt be someone else who is even more evolved in MMA and breaking all of Jon Jones records. Does that mean that what he has done now is devalued? No not in the slightest because he is fighting near to the top of what is the current state of evolution in the sport.

Just the same as when fighters were fighting it out 10 years ago or 15 years ago. Their accomplishments are measured against how well they did in that time frame.

[b']

As an example would you say that what Royce Gracie accomplished to begin the UFC is rubbish because fighters are more evolved now?[/b]

Considering the amount of his opposition had no clue what to do on the ground yes in a way but no because the rules were a lot different from now. I don't see much change now in the next 10 years at all mma is pretty set in stone the way it's played out fighters will just improve on what they know really we won't see much of anything new unless new rules are made or old rules brought back.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Considering the amount of his opposition had no clue what to do on the ground yes in a way but no because the rules were a lot different from now. I don't see much change now in the next 10 years at all mma is pretty set in stone the way it's played out fighters will just improve on what they know really we won't see much of anything new unless new rules are made or old rules brought back.

Fighters will still evolve at a big rate for the next 10 years, MMA is far from set in stone. Only now are we getting fighters through that have been training specifically in MMA and not just coming from one or two background's, Rory Mcdonald is an example of that. Tyrell Fortune is another example of a younger guy taking steps to learn MMA at an early age. A stand out high school wrestler who joined the blackzillians team to train a few years ago.

In the future we are going to see more and more fighters coming through that have trained from an even younger age in MMA, these fighters will be a lot more evolved than the fighters are now.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Man, you lot are firing up this thread again. It's good to see some debates going on!

Mousey, i actually forgot just how stacked the lightweight division is. You're right, it's full of killers!

I've briefly read over the last few pages so i apologize if I've missed parts of the debate, but right now MMA is UFC.

A couple of years ago there was other promotions, but right now UFC has almost a monopoly hold on MMA, and given that they have the Ultimate Fighter series, they also lure in the best up-and-comers before they slip through to another promotion. Anyone who wants to make it, has to join the UFC.

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Re: UFC Official Thread

Fighters will still evolve at a big rate for the next 10 years' date=' MMA is far from set in stone. Only now are we getting fighters through that have been training specifically in MMA and not just coming from one or two background's, Rory Mcdonald is an example of that. Tyrell Fortune is another example of a younger guy taking steps to learn MMA at an early age. A stand out high school wrestler who joined the blackzillians team to train a few years ago.

In the future we are going to see more and more fighters coming through that have trained from an even younger age in MMA, these fighters will be a lot more evolved than the fighters are now.[/quote']

That's my point in a way, Rory is a all rounder but he doesn't bring anything new he just does everything so effectively. What you expecting a Guile's upside down kick from Street Fighter suppose that's possible actually wouldn't surprise me if it's already been done but no-one is going to morph into Blanka and electrocute people whilst doing Capoeira? :rolleyes:

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