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Diving - when will FIFA take action?


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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Why is the reaction to diving always so massively over the top? There are far more important problems in the game at the moment' date=' it's not as if he tried to hurt anyone. What about players who appeal for a throw-in knowing full well they've touched the ball last? Players who trip opponents and claim they never touched them, or anyone who gets away with a handball. Are we going to issue retrospective bans to anybody who shows the slightest bit of dishonesty?[/quote']

if you think claiming for a throw in, thats not really yours is more important than a dive to win a penalty, which effectively killed the game then im afraid your deluded:eek:

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action? this is a continuation of a debate from andyowls' "fifa=when will they take action" where the argument was "did grosso dive against the aussies to win that pe

Enough is enough. Diving, simulation or downright cheating - whatever you call it, it's well and truly out of hand. Tonight, I witnessed Croatian international striker Eduardo commit a horrendously

Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Can you?

For once' date=' I agree with him, and I think it should be more. Why shouldn't players be punished for diving? I can't believe that you think it would be a complete waste of time. Would you rather watch players cheating in the aim of earning themselves a game-changing moment? Yes, you'd still have to put up with all the other dishonest antics you get on a football field, but none of them are more effective in changing a game than a dive.

Yes, trying to stamp it out may lead to other problems, but I'd rather watch a football match free from diving and with a little more speculation than what the game is like today. While I agree with you that diving is well down the list of bad footballing traits, I honestly believe that it can be drowned out of football, but only if FIFA get off their backsides and do something about it.[/quote']

6 games is ridiculous. At the moment players get 3 games for leg-breaking tackles, in no way, shape or form is diving anywhere near as bad as that.

Of course I'd like to see a game without diving but I accept that it's unlikely to ever happen for a whole host of reasons I've already listed. The spectre of 'intent' still hangs over it for one, a penalty has already been given for that reason, which gives it validity as an excuse. So knowing this how do you argue against it when it's held up as a defense for diving? It's so open to interpretation in a lot of cases that it's almost unmanageable. You'd have appeal and counter appeal when certain players are banned, or acquited when others disagree with the decision. Then if it does get brought in you'd have managers who have players missing through retrospective punishment calling for other players to receive bans for acts that went unpunished in the match, and soon enough the queue to get up in front of the FA's disciplinary panel would be halfway down the road.

I also accept that there are far, far worse things about the game right now, which is why the fanfare and mock outrage that gets brought up every time a a player dives in a high profile game just bores me to tears.

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

if you think claiming for a throw in' date=' thats not really yours is more important than a dive to win a penalty, which effectively killed the game then im afraid your deluded:eek:[/quote']

I never said it was as important, just that is falls under the same umbrella of dishonesty. A foul on the halfway line isn't as important as a foul on the egde of the box when the striker is through, but if it's reckless it could still get the same punishment.

And what if a player is dishonest and cheats to win a throw in, the throw in goes into the box and gets nodded in? Same goes for a corner, or whatever. It's still cheating, it should no more acceptable than diving surely?

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

6 games is ridiculous. At the moment players get 3 games for leg-breaking tackles' date=' in no way, shape or form is diving anywhere near as bad as that.

Of course I'd like to see a game without diving but I accept that it's unlikely to ever happen for a whole host of reasons I've already listed. The spectre of 'intent' still hangs over it for one, a penalty has already been given for that reason, which gives it validity as an excuse. So knowing this how do you argue against it when it's held up as a defense for diving? It's so open to interpretation in a lot of cases that it's almost unmanageable. You'd have appeal and counter appeal when certain players are banned, or acquited when others disagree with the decision. Then if it does get brought in you'd have managers who have players missing through retrospective punishment calling for other players to receive bans for acts that went unpunished in the match, and soon enough the queue to get up in front of the FA's disciplinary panel would be halfway down the road.

I also accept that there are far, far worse things about the game right now, which is why the fanfare and mock outrage that gets brought up every time a a player dives in a high profile game just bores me to tears.[/quote']

Firstly, leg-breaking tackles should be punished more severely.

The fact that each and every case would be different is why I think there should be a disciplinary panel who should analyse any footage to the nanosecond. The whole point of a panel is to identify which dives are genuine and which are unfortunate incidents.

I'm not sure if I agree with this whole intent thing anyway. I mean sure, if someone dives studs first aiming at your shins, by all means, do anything that you can to get out of the way. But if an onrushing goalkeeper is diving at your feet to try and claim the ball, a la Boruc, then that isn't what I would class as intent. Yes, it's up to interpretation and I guess that's what it would hinge on. The panel can have a series of members and the members can vote for or against, with the nature of the result possibly deciding the severity of the ban.

You may quibble about the "fanfare" that a high-profile dive may receive, but in all reality, with the amount of dives that actually go on in football, the fanfare isn't nearly as loud as it should be.

Really? I'm all for stamping out diving but more than 6 games? Players have punched and choked guys (I'm looking at you Big Dunc) and got similar bans.

If you really want to get rid of diving, then a tough stance must be taken. If you give a player a measly one-match ban, then players aren't going to take much notice. If this were to happen, then punishments for instances like you suggested should be changed accordingly. A punch of any sort in football match should surely result in a five match ban - it has no place in sport of any kind (except boxing, of course).

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

If you really want to get rid of diving' date=' then a tough stance must be taken. If you give a player a measly one-match ban, then players aren't going to take much notice. If this were to happen, then punishments for instances like you suggested should be changed accordingly. A punch of any sort in football match should surely result in a five match ban - it has no place in sport of any kind [b'](except boxing, of course).[/b]

...or hockey. Or horse racing (my personal special move a lá 'Road Rash').

The truth is though, you'll never eradicate diving. The best you can hope for is to reduce it because certain people will always be prepared to try their luck, no matter the punishment.

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

...or hockey. Or horse racing (my personal special move a lá 'Road Rash').

The truth is though' date=' you'll never eradicate diving. The best you can hope for is to reduce it because certain people will always be prepared to try their luck, no matter the punishment.[/quote']

And another truth is that, even if it were to be eradicated, the players would find a new way of conning the referee in the aim of changing the course of a match. But I can dream on... :rolleyes:

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Firstly' date=' leg-breaking tackles should be punished more severely.

The fact that each and every case would be different is why I think there should be a disciplinary panel who should analyse any footage to the nanosecond. The whole point of a panel is to identify which dives are genuine and which are unfortunate incidents.

I'm not sure if I agree with this whole intent thing anyway. I mean sure, if someone dives studs first aiming at your shins, by all means, do anything that you can to get out of the way. But if an onrushing goalkeeper is diving at your feet to try and claim the ball, a la Boruc, then that isn't what I would class as intent. Yes, it's up to interpretation and I guess that's what it would hinge on. The panel can have a series of members and the members can vote for or against, with the nature of the result possibly deciding the severity of the ban.

You may quibble about the "fanfare" that a high-profile dive may receive, but in all reality, with the amount of dives that actually go on in football, the fanfare isn't nearly as loud as it should be.

If you really want to get rid of diving, then a tough stance must be taken. If you give a player a measly one-match ban, then players aren't going to take much notice. If this were to happen, then punishments for instances like you suggested should be changed accordingly. A punch of any sort in football match should surely result in a five match ban - it has no place in sport of any kind (except boxing, of course).[/quote']

Should be, but isn't. While that's a 3 game ban then anything near that for diving would be scandalous. The crime has to fit the punishment, and a reckless tackle can have so many more real repurcusions than a dive.

You might not agree with it, but it's out there. The precedent has been set no matter how much you or I like it. It's one of many issues that further blurs the line between a dive and a players rhythm being disturbed leading to him falling which makes it almost impossible to police.

Having a panel would be fine but how much time are they going to have to dedicate to this? There are 46 league games in England every weekend, without even getting on non-league. How many dives are there in those games, you can see countless numbers of them in one game? Presumably we're going to punish all of them, it hardly seems fair to punish one person for the same offense another gets away with solely because of the magnitude of the game or where the offense occured. Then how many of those games have footage of every kick available? Or are we going to have this solely for the Premiership and exclude everyone else from this?

If there was an easy solution to this it would have been brought in already, unfortunately the issue is so convaluted and each individual decision is down to individual interpretation. Not to mention the time and cost of a panel based initiative makes it very hard to introduce anything like this.

I guess the severity of it comes down to opinion. You obviously feel strongly about it, whereas I dislike it, but accept it's likely to be part of the game. Yes it's being dishonest, but lets face it if any game it rotten to the core with dishonesty then it's football. Yes it's cheating, but so is shirt pulling, blocking at corner and countless other things that go unpunished numerous times every weekend.

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Should be' date=' but isn't. While that's a 3 game ban then anything near that for diving would be scandalous. The crime has to fit the punishment, and a reckless tackle can have so many more real repurcusions than a dive.

You might not agree with it, but it's out there. The precedent has been set no matter how much you or I like it. It's one of many issues that further blurs the line between a dive and a players rhythm being disturbed leading to him falling which makes it almost impossible to police.

Having a panel would be fine but how much time are they going to have to dedicate to this? There are 46 league games in England every weekend, without even getting on non-league. How many dives are there in those games, you can see countless numbers of them in one game? Presumably we're going to punish all of them, it hardly seems fair to punish one person for the same offense another gets away with solely because of the magnitude of the game or where the offense occured. Then how many of those games have footage of every kick available? Or are we going to have this solely for the Premiership and exclude everyone else from this?

If there was an easy solution to this it would have been brought in already, unfortunately the issue is so convaluted and each individual decision is down to individual interpretation. Not to mention the time and cost of a panel based initiative makes it very hard to introduce anything like this.

I guess the severity of it comes down to opinion. You obviously feel strongly about it, whereas I dislike it, but accept it's likely to be part of the game. Yes it's being dishonest, but lets face it if any game it rotten to the core with dishonesty then it's football. Yes it's cheating, but so is shirt pulling, blocking at corner and countless other things that go unpunished numerous times every weekend.[/quote']

I can see exactly where you are coming from and I could easily envisage countless problems arising from any sort of program to counter diving. Like you say, I do feel strongly about it as it really does annoy me that nobody seems willing to do anything about the problem.

I guess we shall just agree to diagree, although I'm sure we can both agree that nothing will be done, at least in the near future, and it wouldn't be a fool-proof system if it were to be introduced (unlike mine - no flaws whatsoever! :rolleyes:).

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Not gona read this thread as im not bothered but i've said it for years that this is destoying football, espcially when ya watch it on tv, when ya at a game its not the same as your caught up in the atmosphere etc & will want your team to get anyway with murder to get a result {at the time}.

TV Evidence should be used and banne dplayers for 3/5 games for this stuff & i'll go futher and say any penalty should be confirmed by the 4th/5th official on a monitor.

If anyone wants to do anytin about it it's platini, he's already introduced some great ideas since taking over. He's not afraid to implement new formats/rules etc to the game.

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Just come through on SSN that Eduardo will face a punishment.

Now, whereas I'm delighted that UEFA are finally doing something about this, I am utterly and completely miffed why they are doing it NOW, when it is an English club, and not all the countless times in the past when the Italian clubs and Spanish clubs have been doing it?

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

:mad:!!!!!!Platini!!!!!!

:mad:punishing Eduardo is not on, i'm not saying that diving's ok but doing it when an english team has 1 of their players banned

2006 World Cup

ITALY V Australia 2nd round

AET- 120 minutes Grotto Dives without being touched, italy score the penalty to win the match and go on to win the world cup by diving, no action taken :mad:

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Just come through on SSN that Eduardo will face a punishment.

Now' date=' whereas I'm delighted that UEFA are finally doing something about this, I am utterly and completely miffed why they are doing it NOW, when it is an English club, and not all the countless times in the past when the Italian clubs and Spanish clubs have been doing it?[/quote']

Because Celtic put in an offical complaint about the dive to UEFA, funny enough the last person to be banned after the event for diving was playing against Scotland at the time.

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

diving is a foreign way of life in football, i've played in Italy, Holland and Belgium and thought it was just the pro's that did it, how wrong was I? It makes me so angry when you haven't even touched them and bang, down they go. I think British are too proud to do it, it's embarressing for one thing, and as for Eduardos' one against Celtic, I think he was trying to get out of the way of Boruc, but he never helped himself, he should have told the ref there was no contact, similar to what Di Canio did a few years ago, sportsmanship.

As for FIFA taking action, I don't think there's a lot they can do as if a players dives, the referee must book him minumum, if a foul is awarded then, like Arsene Wenger backs his players, the FIFA must back the ref.

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

diving is a foreign way of life in football' date=' i've played in Italy, Holland and Belgium and thought it was just the pro's that did it, how wrong was I? It makes me so angry when you haven't even touched them and bang, down they go. [b']I think British are too proud to do it[/b], it's embarressing for one thing, and as for Eduardos' one against Celtic, I think he was trying to get out of the way of Boruc, but he never helped himself, he should have told the ref there was no contact, similar to what Di Canio did a few years ago, sportsmanship.

As for FIFA taking action, I don't think there's a lot they can do as if a players dives, the referee must book him minumum, if a foul is awarded then, like Arsene Wenger backs his players, the FIFA must back the ref.

Someone should tell Stevie G then.

In all seriousness British players are just as culpable. Even the ones you don't associate with it particularly. Rooney took a tumble when Utd ended Arsenal's unbeaten run. Owen dived at a World Cup against Argentina. There are probably countless examples, it's not just a European thing.

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

diving is a foreign way of life in football' date=' i've played in Italy, Holland and Belgium and thought it was just the pro's that did it, how wrong was I? It makes me so angry when you haven't even touched them and bang, down they go. I think British are too proud to do it, it's embarressing for one thing, and as for Eduardos' one against Celtic, I think he was trying to get out of the way of Boruc, but he never helped himself, he should have told the ref there was no contact, similar to what Di Canio did a few years ago, sportsmanship.

As for FIFA taking action, I don't think there's a lot they can do as if a players dives, the referee must book him minumum, if a foul is awarded then, like Arsene Wenger backs his players, the FIFA must back the ref.[/quote']

On the subject of Di Canio an other example of his Sportsmanship;

I always thought FIFA's motto was "Fair Play" ever since I was kid playing FIFA International Soccer on the Sega Mega-drive all them years ago it was plastered all over the game. FIFA in my opinion is a soft touch with a bunch of jokers in charge, if someone breaks the rules ban them. In five years time nobody will care if for example Ronaldo was banished from football for presistant diving, another superstar will simple take his mantle. Football lives on, player's retire.

Crystal Palace's infamous 'No Goal' against Bristol City, how easy would it have been for a Bristol player to admit to the referee that it was a goal or atleast do something like this:

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

On the subject of Di Canio an other example of his Sportsmanship;

I always thought FIFA's motto was "Fair Play" ever since I was kid playing FIFA International Soccer on the Sega Mega-drive all them years ago it was plastered all over the game. FIFA in my opinion is a soft touch with a bunch of jokers in charge' date=' if someone breaks the rules ban them. In five years time nobody will care if for example Ronaldo was banished from football for presistant diving, another superstar will simple take his mantle. Football lives on, player's retire.

Crystal Palace's infamous 'No Goal' against Bristol City, how easy would it have been for a Bristol player to admit to the referee that it was a goal or atleast do something like this:

[center']

[/center]

Now THESE people must be respected. Wow.

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

it depends a lot on what people mean by "action". afterall, eduardo has been charged by uefa, who evoked an old rule that says players may be charged retrospectively for purposely misleading the referee. in such case, eduardo gets his penalty, celtic get what they wanted, everyone is happy. this rule has always been in place

you never going to eradicate diving. the best you can do is punish it afterwards. there is no need for extreme action. and the fact that this law has been applied so few times suggests something people are not aware of, that diving successfully to win penalties in major tournaments is very rare indeed. i cant remember a single high profile dive in the champions league last year that resulted in a penalty. the most high profile dive to win penalty i know of is at world cup 2006 final, when malouda made that astonishing dive to con the referee following non contact from materazzi. so it was very appropriate that it was materazzi that equalised for italy. god is merciful afterall

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

it depends a lot on what people mean by "action". afterall' date=' eduardo has been charged by uefa, who evoked an old rule that says players may be charged retrospectively for purposely misleading the referee. in such case, eduardo gets his penalty, celtic get what they wanted, everyone is happy. this rule has always been in place

you never going to eradicate diving. the best you can do is punish it afterwards. there is no need for extreme action. and the fact that this law has been applied so few times suggests something people are not aware of, that diving successfully to win penalties in major tournaments is very rare indeed. i cant remember a single high profile dive in the champions league last year that resulted in a penalty. the most high profile dive to win penalty i know of is at world cup 2006 final, when malouda made that astonishing dive to con the referee following non contact from materazzi. so it was very appropriate that it was materazzi that equalised for italy. god is merciful afterall[/quote']

Your handly forgetting the Italy v's Aus game I see

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Doesn't matter that it starts at an English club, after all its got to start somewhere, The question now is can they keep it up? Seen a few dives tonight in the Super cup.

The problem is everyone dives, so what if 3 + players dive, then you lose 3 + key players. Are they likely to dive again in the near future? Probably not. Bound to be some controversy about this, but once clubs start to suffer from losing their key players, perhaps they will be harsher on those players and enforce stricter punishment.

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Crystal Palace's infamous 'No Goal' against Bristol City' date=' how easy would it have been for a Bristol player to admit to the referee that it was a goal or atleast do something like this: [/quote']

first off the linesman flagged for an infringement of some kind, wot was the city players meant to do??? every time a goal gets disallowed give the other team a goal???

also im glad something being done about diving, its about time, everyone who gets found guilty of diving should not only get a suspension but a hefty fine aswell

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Why is this story about Eduardo still active?

Nobody is saying that his action was justified, but certainly he isn't that type of player to dive with deliberate intention. So many other players dived even worse and UEFA didn't move a finger.Not to mention funny and ridiculous reaction from Scottish Football Association.

What message is UEFA sending to others when they punish the player for simulation while they kept their arms crossed when Taylor did his butcher start on Eduardo. (3 game penalties for breaking a leg vs. 2 game penalties for simulation :eek: )

The decision to punish Eduardo is shameful and UEFA should reconsider their decision.

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Your handly forgetting the Italy v's Aus game I see

that was not a dive. maybe it was according to "english standards"' date=' but the english views concerning diving is still relatively primitive

[b']just because there was no contact doesnt not mean it's cant be a foul[/b]. this is something that the english seem to have problems with. the defender spread himself full stretch on the ground when the ball has been played past him. sure neill did not touch him, but his body obstructed the attacker without playing the ball. he was obstructing grosso from getting onto the end of it when technically it was still within grosso's range of play.

of course, grosso could have kicked lucas neill in the head and tripped over him. that would have been the crude way to do it. then that would have been a nondebatable penalty. is that what you want in sport is it, avoidable injuries happening just because people need to prove a point?

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

On the subject of Di Canio an other example of his Sportsmanship;

I always thought FIFA's motto was "Fair Play" ever since I was kid playing FIFA International Soccer on the Sega Mega-drive all them years ago it was plastered all over the game. FIFA in my opinion is a soft touch with a bunch of jokers in charge' date=' if someone breaks the rules ban them. In five years time nobody will care if for example Ronaldo was banished from football for presistant diving, another superstar will simple take his mantle. Football lives on, player's retire.

Crystal Palace's infamous 'No Goal' against Bristol City, how easy would it have been for a Bristol player to admit to the referee that it was a goal or atleast do something like this:

[center']

[/center]

The second video is very similar to one involving Plymouth a decade or so ago. My dad was at the game and has showed me the incident over and over. Forgotten who they were playing (Might have been Yeovil?), but a player had gone down injured, so Plymouth kicked the ball off. The Yeovil player (lets presume it's Yeovil) threw it to a team-mate, to kick back to the Plymouth keeper, but he didn't realise so he took a shot, and scored. Yeovil then just let Micky Evans run through and dribble it into the net.

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