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Diving - when will FIFA take action?


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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

this is a continuation of a debate from andyowls' "fifa=when will they take action" where the argument was "did grosso dive against the aussies to win that penalty?"

the fast answer to that would be:yes he dived, but no, it was not the dive that won the penalty. the "dive", merely consolidated the ref's decision on what was an obvious foul from lucas neill(obstruction)

ok, let me give you an exaggerated example to help you see things more clearly

take this scenario. lionel messi dribbles into the box and see hardman/meathead defender in the shape of richard dunne charging full speed directly towards him. dunne's face, contorted with a psychotic rage that suggest he would like to break messi's leg clean off. dunne then lunges himself towards messi, studs up in a 2 footed challenge. fortunately for messi, he is sharpe enough to realise dunne'intentions and saw the challenge coming from a long way. his choices are as follows, he could either continue running in the sam direction and let dunne break his legs, but guaranteeing that his team win the penalty(horray!!) or he could jump out of the way to avoid all those unsavioury consequences. But the problem is that if he jumps out of the way of the challenge, he would 1) lose his attacking momentum and 2)lose control of the ball. Now given that dunne does not make contact of the ball, then any sober fan would realise that dunne has denied messi’s opportunity without actually playing the ball, or the man.

The next bit is contentious , because if messi merely jumps out of the way, there is a small possibility that the referee does not give the penalty, since aesthetically, the foul is not immediately obvious.but if mess dives to avoid the challenge, then he can infact kill 2 birds with one stone. First he will be able to avoid the leg-breaking challenge, and secondly he will be able to help the referee make up his mind

Now grosso-neill situation is in a way similar to the example above. Perhaps, instead of grosso diving out of the way to avoid injury, he dived with the intention to not trample over lucas neill and hurt the guy. But of course, im not stupid, the ultimate motive was to try and earn the penalty. But that does not mean lucas neill did not foul grosso. The foul of obstruction happened before grosso went down. Grosso merely went down to ensure the correct decision is made. And guess what, it was.

For those people still not convinced. Think of it this way. Lucas neill’s floundering body and limbs obstructed grosso even though he skillfully manoeuvred the ball past him while still keeping the ball within his playing range. In the ideal fair play world, grosso should perhaps stop, go around lucas neill to reach the ball. But if he does that, the attacking opportunity is clearly gone, as the 2nd defender will have time to recover and clear the ball. In that case, it would be grosso and Italy who would then be cheated of a decision. That would not be fair play either lol. So it’s clear that neither scenario is good for fairplay, and just like life, football Is unfair, since we all live in a dog eat dog society.

To summarise, either grosso cheats lucas neill by diving to win the penalty, or lucas neill cheats grosso by obstructing him while buying time for a fellow defender to recover the loose ball without ref intervention. Grosso performed simulation, but it was lucas neill who committed the foul.

Of course im not implying all “dives” are contentious. But this one is certainly one of those that can be argued from both sides, although I feel the case for grosso is stronger. The Eduardo incident a few nights ago was unnecessary, not only because there was not foul involved at any stage, but also that there was no need to dive in a game which arsenal was always going to win.the celebrations was disgusting too. i dont necessarily want to see eduando face that close up even when he score perfectly good goals. that dive has not really changed my mind on that one. the eduardo incident was one where a dive lead to a penalty, as opposed to the grosso incident, where the dive was used to consolidate the penalty

now i realise that my views are unlikely to be popular, especially amongst "good honest" british fans. but it should be used as an eye opener to you guys. this is how football fans see it in spain, italy portugal holland, brazil, argentina, uraguay, pretty much everywhere apart from the british islands, and australia of course, whoes people have british blood in them i believe...

Now if you want to object and argue any of my points, I would prefer if you read ALL of this, as I don’t enjoy people taking specific phrases and analyse them in a manner that is completely out of context. I will be replying to serious arguments only. Taunts and clear shows of incompetence will be ignored.

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=50076

Cheers

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action? this is a continuation of a debate from andyowls' "fifa=when will they take action" where the argument was "did grosso dive against the aussies to win that pe

Enough is enough. Diving, simulation or downright cheating - whatever you call it, it's well and truly out of hand. Tonight, I witnessed Croatian international striker Eduardo commit a horrendously

Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

this is a continuation of a debate from andyowls' "fifa=when will they take action" where the argument was "did grosso dive against the aussies to win that penalty?"

the fast answer to that would be:yes he dived' date=' but no, it was not the dive that won the penalty. the "dive", merely consolidated the ref's decision on what was an obvious foul from lucas neill(obstruction)

ok, let me give you an exaggerated example to help you see things more clearly

take this scenario. lionel messi dribbles into the box and see hardman/meathead defender in the shape of richard dunne charging full speed directly towards him. dunne's face, contorted with a psychotic rage that suggest he would like to break messi's leg clean off. dunne then lunges himself towards messi, studs up in a 2 footed challenge. fortunately for messi, he is sharpe enough to realise dunne'intentions and saw the challenge coming from a long way. his choices are as follows, he could either continue running in the sam direction and let dunne break his legs, but guaranteeing that his team win the penalty(horray!!) or he could jump out of the way to avoid all those unsavioury consequences. But the problem is that if he jumps out of the way of the challenge, he would 1) lose his attacking momentum and 2)lose control of the ball. Now given that dunne does not make contact of the ball, then any sober fan would realise that dunne has denied messi’s opportunity without actually playing the ball, or the man.

The next bit is contentious , because if messi merely jumps out of the way, there is a small possibility that the referee does not give the penalty, since aesthetically, the foul is not immediately obvious.but if mess dives to avoid the challenge, then he can infact kill 2 birds with one stone. First he will be able to avoid the leg-breaking challenge, and secondly he will be able to help the referee make up his mind

Now grosso-neill situation is in a way similar to the example above. Perhaps, instead of grosso diving out of the way to avoid injury, he dived with the intention to not trample over lucas neill and hurt the guy. But of course, im not stupid, the ultimate motive was to try and earn the penalty. But that does not mean lucas neill did not foul grosso. The foul of obstruction happened before the grosso went down. Grosso merely went down to ensure the correct decision is made. And guess what, it was.

For those people still not convinced. Think of it this way. Lucas neill’s floundering body and limbs obstructed grosso even though he skillfully manoeuvred the ball past him while still keeping the ball within his playing range. In the ideal fair play world, grosso should perhaps stop, go around lucas neill to reach the ball. But if he does that, the attacking opportunity is clearly gone, as the 2nd defender will have time to recover and clear the ball. In that case, it would be grosso and Italy who would then be cheated of a decision. That would not be fair play either lol. So it’s clear that neither scenario is good for fairplay, and just like life, football Is unfair, since we all live in a dog eat dog society.

To summarise, either grosso cheats lucas neill by diving to win the penalty, or lucas neill cheats grosso by obstructing him while buying time for a fellow defender to recover the loose ball without ref intervention. Grosso performed simulation, but it was lucas neill who committed the foul.

Of course im not implying all “dives” are contentious. But this one is certainly one of those that can be argued from both sides, although I feel the case for grosso is stronger. The Eduardo incident a few nights ago was unnecessary, not only because there was not foul involved at any stage, but also that there was no need to dive in a game which arsenal was always going to win.the celebrations was disgusting too. i dont necessarily want to see eduando face that close up even when he score perfectly good goals. that dive has not really changed my mind on that one. the eduardo incident was one where a dive lead to a penalty, as opposed to the grosso incident, where the dive was used to consolidate the penalty

now i realise that my views are unlikely to be popular, especially amongst "good honest" british fans. but it should be used as an eye opener to you guys. this is how football fans see it in spain, italy portugal holland, brazil, argentina, uraguay, pretty much everywhere apart from the british islands, and australia of course, whoes people have british blood in them i believe...

Now if you want to object and argue any of my points, I would prefer if you read ALL of this, as I don’t enjoy people taking specific phrases and analyse them in a manner that is completely out of context. I will be replying to serious arguments only. Taunts and clear shows of incompetence will be ignored.

[url']http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=50076[/url]

Cheers

I totally disagree. The examples u use are all dives and cheating. U cant say the guy was obstructing him. What is a defender suppose to do when messi runs at him? Come messi hav a shot at goal? U are pretty much taking tackling out of the game. Yes if someone goes stud up in a challenge u try to get out of the way but guess what most people dont try to break your leg in a tackle. Most dives are unneccesery (imo 9/10 times)

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

Speaking of Eduardo... the ban would be deserved, if FIFA or UEFA would be willing to implement such impositions pervasively.

Wenger really has no right to label it a 'disgrace'; what's disgraceful was our little Croatian ballet instructor's tumble. Ban Eduardo for a couple of matches, and then start banning everyone else who cheats.

Hahah, this would mean that Ronaldo plays once every three games for Madrid this season onwards :D

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

What message is UEFA sending to others when they punish the player for simulation while they kept their arms crossed when Taylor did his butcher start on Eduardo. (3 game penalties for breaking a leg vs. 2 game penalties for simulation)

Who knows how many punishments will C.Ronaldo deserve this season. :rolleyes:

Wenger is absolutely right and I'm on this side regarding Eduardo's situation.

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

I totally disagree. The examples u use are all dives and cheating. U cant say the guy was obstructing him. What is a defender suppose to do when messi runs at him? Come messi hav a shot at goal? U are pretty much taking tackling out of the game. Yes if someone goes stud up in a challenge u try to get out of the way but guess what most people dont try to break your leg in a tackle. Most dives are unneccesery (imo 9/10 times)

like, win the ball? maybe?

and if he doesnt win the ball, and still obstruct the player...penalty maybe?

the way most people talk you get the assumption that they have not actually seen the grosso penalty. lucas neill completely sold himself to the challenge and got no where near the ball, which was skillfully steered around him by grosso.his body then sprawn in a messy heap, obstructed grosso from reaching the ball in time. that's a foul right there, forget about the dive, what dont you get? yes grosso simulated. but i think a top class referee would probably have given the penalty without grosso falling over. but knowing how dodgy refs can be, and how they bottle more decisions than they give, grosso went over to make sure.

concerning the media, it seemed that cries of "cheat" came only from the aussie camp, and the english camp(although why it's of their interest i have no idea). the rest of the world simply accepted the fact that australia played well enough to at least take the game into extra time, and it was their bad luck that they conceded a penalty out of nowhere, at a stage when they were overrunning the italians

if you want to blame someone, blame lucas neill. if you spread yourself on the ground for the tackle in the box, and miss the ball. you are asking people to trip over you.

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Re: Diving - when will FIFA take action?

like' date=' win the ball? maybe?

and if he doesnt win the ball, and still obstruct the player...penalty maybe?

the way most people talk you get the assumption that they have not actually seen the grosso penalty. lucas neill completely sold himself to the challenge and got no where near the ball, which was skillfully steered around him by grosso.his body then sprawn in a messy heap, obstructed grosso from reaching the ball in time. that's a foul right there, forget about the dive, what dont you get? yes grosso simulated. but i think a top class referee would probably have given the penalty without grosso falling over. but knowing how dodgy refs can be, and how they bottle more decisions than they give, grosso went over to make sure.

concerning the media, it seemed that cries of "cheat" came only from the aussie camp, and the english camp(although why it's of their interest i have no idea). the rest of the world simply accepted the fact that australia played well enough to at least take the game into extra time, and it was their bad luck that they conceded a penalty out of nowhere, at a stage when they were overrunning the italians

if you want to blame someone, blame lucas neill. if you spread yourself on the ground for the tackle in the box, and miss the ball. you are asking people to trip over you.[/quote']

Here's a 'JFK' reconstruction from some amature Kevin Costner to help prove your point:

SbbYI61ymDE

To quote one of the comments on the video:

"Thank you for finally clearing it up for the whole world"

:D

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