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English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread


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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

Somewhat sidetracked Jon' date=' but as you have chosen to ask of the almighty's opinion on play-off loans then i am more than happy to help. The good Lord is clearly against them, and to forsake his wisdom is a sin, as is not believing in God in the first place of course. Sadly Jon there is no easy way to put this, but those silly enough to sin end up in the fiery furnace of hell, which incidentally is not a nice place. Not that i plan to spend anytime there of course, far too many godless commies for my liking. [/color']

Yes I will repent my sins immediately Dave! Do you actually believe in that nonsense Dave??

Perhaps, but such shifts in opinion can often result in a lowering of moral standards ( also a sin)..for example if club hopping ( within the rules of the game I believe ?) was to become generally accepted would that make it right?

See my edited comment above! You were too quick for my editing when you quoted this. . . Agreed club hopping would cause problems still, ie a lot of wasted time and a lack of harmony at clubs and just generally being annoying but loans would be ok I reckons (no negative cost if they were all agreed) thats why we have them throughout the season!

Then again of course, if you lend a player for the season you pay his wages for the season, and not just two games so therefore he comes at a price does he not?..Perhaps all of this is a matter of opinion and has no real right or wrong, but it all seems a bit too continental for my liking :)

Continental ha! still paying his wages at the same per game rate so its the same situation.

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

Lost 4-2 to Spurs on the last day to finish 4th. Finally finish in the top 4 after my first season. Former wonderkid Mesut Ozil scored twice against me. Lionel Messi is the top scorer and best player in the setup:D

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

Continental ha! Well your still paying his wages at the same per game rate so its the same situation.

Well you know what I mean ' date=' not very British (English)..yes but you make the to pay those wages long in advance of the outcome of the season. To bolster a team just for the play-offs is a somewhat mercenary use of other peoples resources.[/color']

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

Outside a play-off / cup game ?..No

Why? You are still loaning the player for a very short period. Is the issue merely that you could gain promotion on the back of the loan signing because if so, that game you cover the injury could be the vital point(s) that seperate you from the title/automatic promotion/playoff position. You may have an 89 CF usually but he is injured so you loan an 89 rather than play your 82 rated youth player who may have failed to score the chance(s) your loan signing has put away.

Least Ed got his way with a debate :D

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

Considering the drivel in some of this post I am hesitant to agree with JC' date=' but I do.

I understand the auldsters points regarding the moral implications some people are not pleased about but is the loan system not there to help improve a sides starting eleven? I don't think that should depend on whether it is a two match loan for playoff semi/final or not. At the end of the day, your opponents may have got to the playoffs because of a loan signings 10 goals in the final 8 matches for example so is this not just as bad?

Out of interest, do you also feel that loaning a player to cover a short term injury is also something that should be avoided?[/quote']

yeah sorry daz did get badly sidetracked as said before and probs regret goin on a bit and not really necessary.

Outside a play-off / cup game ?..No

Agreeing with daz here it seems that for some people a long term loan is ok maybe a half season loan is ok but not a 2 game loan? why the all of a sudden change Dave when it becomes short term, how many weeks must we loan a player for according to yourself for it to be acceptable?

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

Why? You are still loaning the player for a very short period. Is the issue merely that you could gain promotion on the back of the loan signing because if so' date=' that game you cover the injury could be the vital point(s) that seperate you from the title/automatic promotion/playoff position. You may have an 89 CF usually but he is injured so you loan an 89 rather than play your 82 rated youth player who may have failed to score the chance(s) your loan signing has put away.

Least Ed got his way with a debate :D[/quote']

Such nit-pickery Darren !!...anyway I don't consider the issue to be up for debate its a question of ethics ;)

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

Well you know what I mean ' date=' not very British (English)..yes but you make the to pay those wages long in advance of the outcome of the season. To bolster a team just for the play-offs is a somewhat mercenary use of other peoples resources.[/color']

I committed at the start of the season to pay these extra wages in the playoffs as well, (iv put aside money for it). But it isnt somewhat mercenary use of other peoples resources to bolster my team over half a season with loans? surely its worse over half a season?

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

I committed at the start of the season to pay these extra wages in the playoffs as well' date=' (iv put aside money for it). But it isnt somewhat mercenary use of other peoples resources to bolster my team over half a season with loans? surely its worse over half a season?[/quote']

And if you hadn't made the play-offs? you would not have loaned them....you are a chancer sir

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

And if you hadn't made the play-offs? you would not have loaned them....you are a chancer sir

playoffs were always a certainty ;) (jk, very lucky to be there actually!). how many weeks is the acceptable loan length dave? I need to know so that I dont fall into these murky waters again!

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

playoffs were always a certainty ;). how many weeks is the acceptable loan length dave? I need to know so that I dont fall into these murky waters again!

never in doubt :eek::eek:....now you are just being pedantic. Clearly the practice of loaning players for play-offs is at best pushing the spirit of the game to its limits. Tell me Jon' date=' if your opponent publicly stated he was not going to use loans for the play-offs would you ?[/color']

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

I won't be loaning out players until we are under way in the new season. I may end up doing deals and I want a strong second team for the cups next season.

I am very happy to have beaten Liverpool on the last day of the season. It keeps me unbeaten at home in the league this season. The Galpharm stadium is my fortress. :D Now hopefully I can make the stadium bigger.

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

never in doubt :eek::eek:....now you are just being pedantic. Clearly the practice of loaning players for play-offs is at best pushing the spirit of the game to its limits. Tell me Jon' date=' if your opponent publicly stated he was not going to use loans for the play-offs would you ?[/color']

Avoiding mine and daz's point a bit here I feel, I was trying to argue that if you allow half season loans then why not quarter season or 2 weeks and so on (slippery slope argument). Seems a bit odd to not allow them at a certain point if they are too short term.

Yes i would still loan them. If he also stated he wasn't going to make any transfers, I would still continue to make my own transfers.

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

Avoiding mine and daz's point a bit here I feel' date=' I was trying to argue that if you allow half season loans then why not quarter season or 2 weeks and so on (slippery slope argument). Seems a bit odd to not allow them at a certain point if they are too short term.

Yes i would still loan them. If he also stated he wasn't going to make any transfers, I would still continue to make my own transfers.[/quote']

Simple solution is that SM should not allow ANY loans/ transfers after turn 30/32 or so, that way everyone knows where they're at for the run-in and no-one can loan in any ringers for the play-offs :eek:;)

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

Avoiding mine and daz's point a bit here I feel' date=' I was trying to argue that if you allow half season loans then why not quarter season or 2 weeks and so on (slippery slope argument). Seems a bit odd to not allow them at a certain point if they are too short term.[/quote']

Not at all, I have said clearly I have no problem with loans outside the play-offs etc...:confused:

Yes i would still loan them. If he also stated he wasn't going to make any transfers, I would still continue to make my own transfers.

Fair enough, I presume you would consider the undoubted advantage you would gain as being justified by the desire to win?. With that in mind would you say these R/L examples of ' winning at all costs' are acceptable and as i said earlier within the spirit of the game?

The Bodyline series 1932-33

The arrival of the English touring side in Australia for the Ashes series during the summer of 1932-3 was much anticipated by all Australian cricket fans. Unknown to the Australians at the time was the fact, English captain Douglas Jardine was about to write his team into the record and history books for all the wrong reasons. To counter the skill of the great Australian player Donald Bradman, who had devastated the English bowling attack during the 1930 series, Jardine adopted a tactic later to become known as Bodyline.

Bodyline involved the placing of a least five players close in to the batsman and the bowler continually bowling a barrage of short pitched balls aimed on leg stump, these balls would quickly rare up from the pitch placing the batsman in danger of serious injury. To counter these rising deliveries, the batsman would be forced to adopt defensive batting strokes, which would regularly result in catches to the close in fieldsmen.

The underarm incident, Australia vs. New Zealand, 1981

Occurred in 1981 in a World Series Cricket ODI between Australian and New Zealand. With six needed off the last ball for NZ to tie the match and series Aussie captain Greg Chappell called his brother Trevor over and ordered him to bowl an unhittable underarm delivery. This was a tactic forbidden in most countries but not written into the Benson and Hedges tournament rule book – the tactic was probably considered so shameful as to be unfathomable.

Michael Schumacher, Adelaide Grand Prix, 1994

With the 1994 F1 championship delicately poised, Michael Schumacher needed to finish ahead of rival Damon Hill to win the drivers title. With Hill just about to take the lead Schumacher clipped the British Driver and bent one of the wish bone joints at the front of his car. Schumacher had to retire and watched as Hill attempted to limp to the pit before retiring himself. Hill’s retirement from the race handed Schumacher the title. Many suggested Hill was right to pass and Schumacher was wrong to block him with his slower car. Accident or Intentional?

jmKbGW7OmVg

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Guest ExiledScotInTheUSA

Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

Not at all' date=' I have said clearly I have no problem with loans outside the play-offs etc...:confused:[/color']

Fair enough, I presume you would consider the undoubted advantage you would gain as being justified by the desire to win?. With that in mind would you say these R/L examples of ' winning at all costs' are acceptable and as i said earlier within the spirit of the game?

The Bodyline series 1932-33

The arrival of the English touring side in Australia for the Ashes series during the summer of 1932-3 was much anticipated by all Australian cricket fans. Unknown to the Australians at the time was the fact, English captain Douglas Jardine was about to write his team into the record and history books for all the wrong reasons. To counter the skill of the great Australian player Donald Bradman, who had devastated the English bowling attack during the 1930 series, Jardine adopted a tactic later to become known as Bodyline.

Bodyline involved the placing of a least five players close in to the batsman and the bowler continually bowling a barrage of short pitched balls aimed on leg stump, these balls would quickly rare up from the pitch placing the batsman in danger of serious injury. To counter these rising deliveries, the batsman would be forced to adopt defensive batting strokes, which would regularly result in catches to the close in fieldsmen.

The underarm incident, Australia vs. New Zealand, 1981

Occurred in 1981 in a World Series Cricket ODI between Australian and New Zealand. With six needed off the last ball for NZ to tie the match and series Aussie captain Greg Chappell called his brother Trevor over and ordered him to bowl an unhittable underarm delivery. This was a tactic forbidden in most countries but not written into the Benson and Hedges tournament rule book – the tactic was probably considered so shameful as to be unfathomable.

Michael Schumacher, Adelaide Grand Prix, 1994

With the 1994 F1 championship delicately poised, Michael Schumacher needed to finish ahead of rival Damon Hill to win the drivers title. With Hill just about to take the lead Schumacher clipped the British Driver and bent one of the wish bone joints at the front of his car. Schumacher had to retire and watched as Hill attempted to limp to the pit before retiring himself. Hill’s retirement from the race handed Schumacher the title. Many suggested Hill was right to pass and Schumacher was wrong to block him with his slower car. Accident or Intentional?

jmKbGW7OmVg

You forgot one Dave....England v West Germany World Cup Final 1966.

With the match tied and looking like ending in a draw, Geoff Hurst smacked the ball against the underside of the bar and it bounced onto the goal line, ( the rule being that the WHOLE ball has to cross the line) and the officials (who were swayed by the baying home crowd) gave the goal which led to England's win. :D

PS. We went down the following Spring and whooped your butts but you wouldn't GIVE us the Cup after we gave you a lesson on how to win with grace and dignity. :P;)

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

You forgot one Dave....England v West Germany World Cup Final 1966.

With the match tied and looking like ending in a draw' date=' Geoff Hurst smacked the ball against the underside of the bar and it bounced onto the goal line, ([/b'] the rule being that the WHOLE ball has to cross the line) and the officials (who were swayed by the baying home crowd) gave the goal which led to England's win. :D

ahhhh...yes but you play to the whistle me old fruit :P;)

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Guest ExiledScotInTheUSA

Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

ahhhh...yes but you play to the whistle me old fruit :P;)

Would that be an ENGLISH whistle Dave? :D

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Guest ExiledScotInTheUSA

Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

You also forgot Ol' Enery and a young Cassius Clay in 1963 when Henry floored the young whipper snapper for the first time in his career and only the bell saved him. Then Angelo Dundee ripped Clay's glove to give him more time to get his head together, a travesty of injustice against a great man and boxer. Old Henry Cooper was robbed that night. ;)

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

i have an amazin tatoo funnily enough..

length of arm..

states the following and sums this whole scenario up 2 a tee boys..

PAIN IS TEMPORARY,

PRIDE IS FOREVER.

on that note do as u please whoever is after loans for the play offs..

personally id sooner loose havin had a rite go with wot i got prior..

but thats just me as a person.. horses for courses etc :) ..

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

You also forgot Ol' Enery and a young Cassius Clay in 1963 when Henry floored the young whipper snapper for the first time in his career and only the bell saved him. Then Angelo Dundee ripped Clay's glove to give him more time to get his head together' date=' a travesty of injustice against a great man and boxer. Old Henry Cooper was robbed that night. ;)[/b']

Apparently winning is everything nowadays Davie my friend so i presume Jon / Darren would feel that was acceptable too?. Jon might be back on later ? apparently he has just nipped down to Tesco to pick up a book about ethics :P..only joking Jon, I love you really

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Re: English Championship 106 - Discussion Thread

Not at all' date=' I have said clearly I have no problem with loans outside the play-offs etc...:confused:[/color']

ah apologies Dave! very badly phrased. Was trying to echo dazs post about why are you for longterm loans and for some other situations but not short term loans for playoffs or cups? Both situations give an "unfair" advantage to the loaner.

"You are still loaning the player for a very short period. Is the issue merely that you could gain promotion on the back of the loan signing because if so, that game you cover the injury could be the vital point(s) that seperate you from the title/automatic promotion/playoff position. You may have an 89 CF usually but he is injured so you loan an 89 rather than play your 82 rated youth player who may have failed to score the chance(s) your loan signing has put away. "

Fair enough, I presume you would consider the undoubted advantage you would gain as being justified by the desire to win?. With that in mind would you say these R/L examples of ' winning at all costs' are acceptable and as i said earlier within the spirit of the game?

If I told you Dave I was going to stop transfers and stop loans and set bad tactics and play my keeper upfront would you then also do the same?

I imagine you wouldn't, as you play within the initial agreements and your suggestion of him not taking the loans is a voluntary mistake on his part.

The Bodyline series 1932-33

The arrival of the English touring side in Australia for the Ashes series during the summer of 1932-3 was much anticipated by all Australian cricket fans. Unknown to the Australians at the time was the fact, English captain Douglas Jardine was about to write his team into the record and history books for all the wrong reasons. To counter the skill of the great Australian player Donald Bradman, who had devastated the English bowling attack during the 1930 series, Jardine adopted a tactic later to become known as Bodyline.

Bodyline involved the placing of a least five players close in to the batsman and the bowler continually bowling a barrage of short pitched balls aimed on leg stump, these balls would quickly rare up from the pitch placing the batsman in danger of serious injury. To counter these rising deliveries, the batsman would be forced to adopt defensive batting strokes, which would regularly result in catches to the close in fieldsmen.

The underarm incident, Australia vs. New Zealand, 1981

Occurred in 1981 in a World Series Cricket ODI between Australian and New Zealand. With six needed off the last ball for NZ to tie the match and series Aussie captain Greg Chappell called his brother Trevor over and ordered him to bowl an unhittable underarm delivery. This was a tactic forbidden in most countries but not written into the Benson and Hedges tournament rule book – the tactic was probably considered so shameful as to be unfathomable.

Michael Schumacher, Adelaide Grand Prix, 1994

With the 1994 F1 championship delicately poised, Michael Schumacher needed to finish ahead of rival Damon Hill to win the drivers title. With Hill just about to take the lead Schumacher clipped the British Driver and bent one of the wish bone joints at the front of his car. Schumacher had to retire and watched as Hill attempted to limp to the pit before retiring himself. Hill’s retirement from the race handed Schumacher the title. Many suggested Hill was right to pass and Schumacher was wrong to block him with his slower car. Accident or Intentional?

jmKbGW7OmVg

Right after a few edits, im probably against these, very interesting though and needs further thought!

The use of loans however is a separate issue as it isnt unsporting and widely practiced unlike the above examples.

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