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Best Manager in the World


Kieran Smith
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Best Manager in the World  

  1. 1.

    • Sir Alex Ferguson
      17
    • Arsene Wenger
      6
    • Guus Hiddink
      3
    • Josep Guardiola
      6
    • Fabio Cappello
      5
    • Sir Neller
      6
    • Other
      8


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Re: Best Manager in the World

Fair point' date=' but that's just one game out of the thousands he has managed in his career. I actually think too much of the blame has been pinned onn SAF for that game, but that debate's for another thread. As I said in the previous post, I dont think its fair to say he's suspect tactically, even if he did make mistakes in that one final.[/quote']

well, you look at the milan game in 2007 when united capitulated by their tactical naivety. that's an example you would know.

but i can also go as far back as the mid 90s, the double 1-0 defeat at the hands of lippi's juve, both game united dominated but lost to counterattacks, to dortmund in 96 when united lost 1-0 at home

then in 2001 against a revenge driven bayern, who dominated both ties by playing pragmatic possesion orientated football.

2002 leverkusen. ferguson's open approach saw them concede 2 goals at home, and they never really recovered from that, and lost on away goals against a less talented but more organised leverkusen side

2003, lost against against real madrid. ok they were a better team individually, but manutd's tactics(or lack of)at the bernabeu played right into their hands. i distinctively remember that year, juve lost to united 3-0 in turin. yet, the same juve side beat united's conquerors, real madrid in the semis... how does that work, you ask? tactics m8

2004 porto. i distinctively remember that just before united conceded that fatal freekick, they were still going all out attacking, and the porto freekick actually started with a ronaldo losing the ball at the edge of the porto penalty area(i cld be wrong, im going by memory, a united fan confirm this)

then 2006/2007, who could forget that memorable match in a stormy san siro. some blamed fatigue, some balmed injuries and suspensions, yet the fact remains, ferguson knew how milan was goin to play, and he did nothing to stop them. his "you score 3, we score 4" approach completely backfired. a reckless manutd side lining up in an open 442 got taken to the cleaners. they should have lost that 5-0 not 3-0

the barca this year, game i have already talked about, it was a complete tactical mismatch, barca had great players, but ferguson's tactical errors made them look like gods

trust me, over his entire career ferguson's tactical misses are far more frequent than the occasional hits. most of those misses came in europe. in the epl, his team's superior ability usually got himi out of jail. actually, i d say it's only over the last 2 years that he has adapted to a more pragmatic and effective style in europe, as i suggested in my post above

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Re: Best Manager in the World

well' date=' you look at the milan game in 2007 when united capitulated by their tactical naivety. that's an example you would know.

but i can also go as far back as the mid 90s, the double 1-0 defeat at the hands of lippi's juve, both game united dominated but lost to counterattacks, to dortmund in 96 when united lost 1-0 at home

then in 2001 against a revenge driven bayern, who dominated both ties by playing pragmatic possesion orientated football.

2002 leverkusen. ferguson's open approach saw them concede 2 goals at home, and they never really recovered from that

2004 porto. i distinctively remember that just before united conceded that fatal freekick, they were still going all out attacking, and the porto freekick actually started with a ronaldo losing the ball at the edge of the porto penalty area(i cld be wrong, im going by memory, a united fan confirm this)

then 2006/2007, who could forget that memorable match in a sotrmy san siro. some blamed fatigue, some balmed injuries and suspensions, yet the fact remains, ferguson knew how milan was goin to play, and he did nothing to stop them. his "you score 3, we score 4 approach completely backfired. an open manutd side lining up in an attacking 442 got taken to the cleaners. they should have lost that 5-0 not 3-0

trust me, over his entire career ferguson's tactical misses are just as frequent as the occasional hits. actually, i d say it's only over the last 2 years that he has adapted to a more pragmatic and effective style in europe, as i suggested in my post above[/quote']

Lol ok, I'm not even gonna pretend I remember half of them as I only know about the Milan one and the Porto one - not a huge follower of United to be honest. All I did originally was respond to the comment about him being suspect, and I just said that I don't think you can win what he has won by not knowing what you're doing.

You're absolutely right in Europe, I think I mentioned in my first post about this that he has admitted himself he was naive in Europe, so I totally agree with you that he isn't as good tactically in Europe as other managers in the game. Saying that, he still gets my vote for this thread as it's called best manager, which involves every aspect of management. Echoing what I've already said, he may not have done as well as he would've wanted in Europe but his dominance of the Premier League suggests that he knows how to win football games. You only need to look at last season, there were quite a few times when SAF changed things round when they were staring at defeat, and United went on to win.

Man United 2-1 Wigan - United were 1-0 down at half time towards the end of last season. Playing poorly, he brings Tevez on for a midfielder (cant remember which one) and they went on to win the game, with Tevez scoring the winner.

Man United 5-2 Tottenham - 2-0 down at half time, he changes it at half time again and they win 5-2. Yes, the first goal was from a penalty that was definitely not a penalty, but still he has that courage to risk losing a game to win it.

Man United 3-2 Aston Villa - 2-1 down, he puts 4 strikers on the pitch, one being a relatively unheard Macheda, and he goes and gets a late winner. Villa actually had good chances to win that game but didn’t take them and again united were rewarded for being brave tactically.

Without these results, they wouldn’t have won the league last year. My memory isn’t great but you can guarantee he’s been doing things like this since he started managing. Maybe it isn’t “tactical nous” as such, but it’s his risk-taking and bravery that has won him so many important games, many late winners and the rest of it. It doesn’t always work, as you mentioned with the Milan game when they went 4-4-2 (I’ll take your word for it) and he has stopped that in Europe, but it certainly works in the Prem, and now I think he has the balance right, and knows how to approach league and European games in different ways. Basically, I agree with you in the whole, just think he’s a bit better tactically than you do.

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Re: Best Manager in the World

. Basically' date=' I agree with you in the whole, just think he’s a bit better tactically than you do.[/quote']

exactly what is the point of this comment?? im just commenting on facts. you say he is a better tactician than i am? perhaps lol but then, i m not a manager either im a fan. an italian fan. and if there is one aspect of the game that we italians are more advanced at, it's tactics. we invented it. everyday, the italian radio talks about nonstop tactics and tactical analysis. in england, people talk about scandals and dramas, in italy it is non stop tactical analysis. im just analysing ferguson. and as far as i can see, i did nothing wrong. i never said im a better tactician than him lol im just saying that with HINDSIGHT and a lot of professional analysis which i hear and read about, i can see things more clearly than ferguson did AT THE TIME.

ok? you tone is unnecessarily scathing. even though all i have done is open people's eyes abit to all the facts. facts which people are previously unaware of. you agreed with all i have said, yet you took a dig at the end. i dont get you. do you think im being disrepectful or something? because im not. i m just presenting the truth as a neutral. all my views are backed up by facts, just take a look at the year by year tactical error analysis 2 posts up. sure ferguson knows how to turn things around in doemstic football. but im talking CL european football here. la creme de la creme. slightly higher level than epl dont you think?

by the way, the bit where you quoted me, you missed out the madrid game and the barca game which i have updated in my original post

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Re: Best Manager in the World

exactly what is the point of this comment? im just commenting on facts. you say he is a better tactician than i am? perhaps lol but then' date=' i m not a manager either im a fan. an italian fan. and if there is one aspect of the game that we italians are more advanced at, it's tactics. we invented it. everyday, the italian radio talks about nonstop tactics and tactical analysis. in england, people talk about scandals and dramas, in italy it is non stop tactical analysis. im just analysing ferguson. and as far as i can see, i did nothing wrong. i never said im a better tactician than him?! lol im just saying that with hindsight and a lot of professional analysis which i hear and read about, i can see things more clearly than ferguson did AT THE TIME.

ok?[/quote']

I think you've misunderstood. I said I think he's a better tactician than you think he is, not that he is a better tactician than you. Also, didnt say you had done anything wrong, I fully respect your views and agreed with what you said for the most part.

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Re: Best Manager in the World

ok? you tone is unnecessarily scathing. even though all i have done is open people's eyes abit to all the facts. facts which people are previously unaware of

I have no idea what you mean by my tone? I was just giving my view on him, as you were, and didn't mean any of it to be scathing. Apologies if that's how you interpreted it.

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Re: Best Manager in the World

ok' date=' but exactly where did i claim to be a better tactican than ferguson?[/quote']

I didnt say he was better than you, I said this:

I agree with you in the whole, just think he’s a bit better tactically than you do.

I am saying I think he is a better tactician than you think he is, not that he is better than you.

Also, I said this:

You're absolutely right in Europe

I completely agreed with you that he hasn't been good in Europe. I never disagreed with that in any way, all I said was that I think he is improving in Europe.

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Re: Best Manager in the World

Guus Hiddink personally for me... I just think the impact he made upon Chelsea was a sign of just how good he is as a manager. Im not really into statistics or anything like that, but Hiddink would be my top manager.

I would say SAF. But I hate the man so much, I can't bear saying it. Also... Wenger? lol... Mr "No comment" if his players cheat.

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Re: Best Manager in the World

Guus Hiddink personally for me... I just think the impact he made upon Chelsea was a sign of just how good he is as a manager. Im not really into statistics or anything like that' date=' but Hiddink would be my top manager.

[/quote']

I have to admit, I'm surprised how few votes Hiddink has amassed. Then again, I think it's just a reflection of the people voting on this thread! :rolleyes:

What he achieved with South Korea in 2002, Australia in 2006, Russia in 2008 at international level, not to mention the domestic success he had with PSV and to a lesser extent Chelsea. He should be in the top 3 imho.

Herby

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Re: Best Manager in the World

I have to admit' date=' I'm surprised how few votes Hiddink has amassed. Then again, I think it's just a reflection of the people voting on this thread! :rolleyes:

What he achieved with South Korea in 2002, Australia in 2006, Russia in 2008 at international level, not to mention the domestic success he had with PSV and to a lesser extent Chelsea. He should be in the top 3 imho.

Herby[/quote']

Hmm... I'd mostly agree with you. He did brilliantly with South Korea and Australia with much poorer players than a lot of the teams he beat, and his record with PSV speaks for itself.

Russia were slightly different, I think, because he had a much stronger squad to work with than before (no disrespect intended to Australia or South Korea, but in fairness they were both far worse on paper). Having said that, he still definately got much more out of the players than most people would have expected. I'd rate his achievements with Russia on roughly the same level as what he did with Holland at France '98.

He did what was expected at Chelsea. Nothing overly spectacular, but a good solid job nonetheless.

The reason he doesn't get my vote is despite his massive successes, he's also got a few more 'blips' on his CV than managers like Lippi, Hitzfeld and Capello...

Fenerbahce (1990-91) - Sacked after one season. Finished 5th in the league behind Besiktas (by 25 points), Galatasaray, Trabzonspor and Sariyer.

Valencia (1991-94) - Finished 4th in the league in his first 2 seasons. Sacked in his 3rd season after being hammered 7-0 by Karlsruher in the UEFA Cup, and then losing to Gijon the next weekend. Reinstated 5 months later after a change in president. Results improved, but Valencia only finished 7th.

Real Madrid (1998-99) - Sacked because of bad results and off-pitch remarks about the club's directors.

Real Betis (1999-00) - Sacked 3 weeks before the end of the season. Betis relegated to Segunda Division.

The worst performances Hitzfeld and Lippi have on their records is 4th place with Bayern (in 2006-07, which was more the fault of Felix Magath) and Inter (in 1999-00) respectively. Capello did finish 10th in Serie A in 1997-98 with Milan, but Milan weren't great at the time and had only finished 11th the season before under Tabarez/Morini/Sacchi.

Those are my top 3, not only for their successes, but also because of their lack of failures compared with other top managers. Hiddink would definately be in my top 10, but it's his poor record in Spain and Turkey that stops him from being a contender for the number 1 spot, in my opinion.

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Re: Best Manager in the World

Top post Schuldinger .... I think your top 3 is pretty accurate and justified.

I was referring to Hiddink in relation to the other contenders mentioned in the poll. From the managers mentioned, I'd put him in the top 3 (probably on the same level as Sir Neller :P).

He doesn't deserve to be on the bottom with just 3 votes to his name. :mad:

Herby

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Re: Best Manager in the World

I think you've misunderstood. I said I think he's a better tactician than you think he is' date=' not that he is a better tactician than you. Also, didnt say you had done anything wrong, I fully respect your views and agreed with what you said for the most part.[/quote']

ok, then it's my bad, i misinterpreted. i thought you assumed just because i was talking down ferguson's tactical nous, that you thought i was talking down his ability as a manager. no way. I ve made it very clear that ferguson is one of the top coaches in the world, and his achievements and record earns him a spot among the all time greatest coaches ever.

ferguson is an old fashioned manager. he may not have the tactical intelligence of some of the younger european coaches, but then, none of them has his cold blooded singlemindedness as a motivator, a leader of men, and most of all, a winner. On top of that, the way he sustained his hunger and drive, by building one title winning side after another, add in the way he made the most out of the club academy.....this man is manchester united. He turned them from a reputable club into a modern giant of european football. no way i would knock his overall ability as a manager.

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Re: Best Manager in the World

ok' date=' then it's my bad, i misinterpreted. i thought you assumed just because i was talking down ferguson's tactical nous, that you thought i was talking down his ability as a manager. no way. I ve made it very clear that ferguson is one of the top coaches in the world, and his achievements and record earns him a spot among the all time greatest coaches ever.

ferguson is an old fashioned manager. he may not have the tactical intelligence of some of the younger european coaches, but then, none of them has his cold blooded singlemindedness as a motivator, a leader of men, and most of all, a winner. On top of that, the way he sustained his hunger and drive, by building one title winning side after another, add in the way he made the most out of the club academy.....this man is manchester united. He turned them from a reputable club into a modern giant of european football. no way i would knock his overall ability as a manager.[/quote']

Yeh agree with pretty much everythin you have said, I think we've just been saying it in different ways lol.

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Re: Best Manager in the World

I think you can seperate the managers into a number of categories' date=' but to rank them definitively might be a little difficult, if not a bit disrespectful to some. i mean how do you compare lippi with ferguson when one is a world cup winner. and how do you compare aragones with mourinho when one is 70 and the other 40 something. I think it is very hard to get a compromise of ability age and record. that's why i will categorise them

category A: the half coach half legend category. these are undisputed "world class" managers whoes decisions are never questions. they managers whoes record alone justify their reputation. in no particular order:

lippi, ferguson, hiddink trappatoni, hitzfield, capello, aragones

category B. these guys are not in category A for one of 2 reasons, or maybe both: 1)not old enough 2)not enough trophies. But, unless something very wrong happens, they will all be in category A within 10 years

wenger, ancelotti, mourinho, del bosque, rehhagel(somewhere between category A and B), scolari, van gaal, benitez

Category C. the too young/too old/too south American/too little top level experience/too much underachievers category

Guardiola, moyes, o’neil, spalletti, rednapp, prandelli, delio rossi, gasperini, pellegrini, ranieri, bielsa, mancini, jesualdo ferreira, le guen, rijkaard.

Category D: the managers with funny nicknames but not so sure where they belong category

“big sam”, “sparky”, “psycho”, carlos “only good as assistant” queiroz, and of course, ol’ keano[/quote']

I have to say, every single post from Mr Liucci is of the highest standard. He backs his points up with facts and his posts are very interesting to read.

IMO Steve Bruce should be added to group C. He is just as good as Moyes if not better. Some might disagree but look at the job he done at Wigan before moving to Sunderland. Bruce IMO is one of the most under rated managers in England and deserves a lot more credit and boy is he good in the transfer market. Not only does he find great unknown talent but he also finds great bargains and very rarely do you see him make a mistake in the transfer market which can say a lot about a manager.

Anywho, back to the best manager in the world. IMO it has to be Lippi. He is a genious, simple as that. I'm a huge fan of his and although I had a discussion with Mr Liucci some time ago about what IMO Lippi is doing wrong atm, I know for a fact that if anyone will lead Italy back to the top, it will be him.

What Mr Liucci said is true, Ferguson has been vulnerable when it comes to tactics over the past few years. Ferguson has relied on his motovational skills. He isn't the best in the world, despite winning many trophies. Like Mr Liucci said, its taken him years to adapt to the European style.

then 2006/2007' date=' who could forget that memorable match in a stormy san siro. some blamed fatigue, some balmed injuries and suspensions, yet the fact remains, ferguson knew how milan was goin to play, and he did nothing to stop them. his "you score 3, we score 4" approach completely backfired. a reckless manutd side lining up in an open 442 got taken to the cleaners. they should have lost that 5-0 not 3-0[/quote']

The Milan match is the perfect example of how Feguson's tactics let him down. He done nothing to counter Milan and his "you score 3, we score 4" attitude created a lot of space for Milan which was pretty stupid considering they had a player of Kaka's quality who was then able to play in more of a free role which was only going to tear United appart.

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Re: Best Manager in the World

Anywho' date=' back to the best manager in the world. IMO it has to be Lippi. He is a genious, simple as that. I'm a huge fan of his and although I had a discussion with Mr Liucci some time ago about what IMO Lippi is doing wrong atm, I know for a fact that if anyone will lead Italy back to the top, it will be him.

[/quote']

the interesting thing about lippi is that he is like no other coach, in the sense that he enjoys an unusually large amount of respect for a football coach

Obviously he is massively respected by everyone who follows football. in fact, i know that alex ferguson, perhaps one of the greatest coaches ever to have graced the game, and a guy some 10 years lippi's senior, is a big fan of him. that's kind of says what kind of a guy lippi is.

But the extraordinary thing about lippi is that he is also hugely popular with the general public, especially the younger generation of Italian fans, who look up to him. I think it has a lot to do with his impressive combination of looks and ability. In the mid 90s he was nicknamed “Hollywood” or “iceman” by the Italian media (no connections with top gun lol) for his classy appearance. But it was pretty clear that he wasn’t just a good looking bloke who enjoys looking cool by smoking a cigar on the touchline, because his juventus side of mid 90s played oppositions off the park. And when they met teams with better individuals, lippi has always been able to dig something out of his tactical arsenal and overcome the odds. This is even more extraordinary when you consider the fact that he is a very conservative coach on the touchlines. He doesn’t shout or scream. He talks, and his words carry a lot of weight. He is not like capello or trapattoni who motivate by fear(in a way). Lippi motivates by charisma. A guy like capello will force you to do so and so on the pitch. But lippi wont. he will explain to you why you have to do it, and the benefits of doing things this way. He lets the players make up their own mind, and unless they are idiots, they listen to him. I think this is what sets him apart. I don’t think capello or trapattoni are inferior coaches, but their methods are often crude and at times unpopular with fans. Lippi do things the way only he can.

I personally wouldn’t dare say that lippi is THE best coach around. For example, I don’t think capello, who has an outstanding strike rate for winning titles(9 in 15 I think-all Spanish and Italian titles) is inferior in anyway. But lippi’s world cup victory is what sets him apart from the rest. It gets him that much more respect. He is definitely one of the best around.

In italy Lippi is also a lot more popular than capello. Lippi won the world cup with italy, meanwhile, capello came out said he would never manage italy(kind of a stupid thing to say) which turned alot of the italian public against him. But despite all of capello’s efforts to try and make himself as unpopular as possible, I m still clear minded enough to accept his ability(perhaps because he contributed a lot to juventus as a player and manager). But I think the idea of image and general media popularity is perhaps a reason why lippi commands so much more respect than a lot of his other peers, some of whom are perhaps no inferior in ability.

About bruce, good one, I forgot about him. Hes a bit like redknapp, a wheelerdealer who does a lot of underrated work with small teams. but he need to start winning something, or at least get himself a bigger club. a lot of the guys i have in category c have won titles and cups.

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