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Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009 (2010 edition available now)


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Cheap high risers (from 70's to 81) Wolfgang Hesl (Hamburger SV) 75 -> 75-79 - rose to 78 Stefan Reinartz (Bayer Leverkusen) 74 -> 79-81 - rose to 80 Carlos Zambrano (FC Schalke 04) 80 ->

Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009

Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009 Should rise to 87 then' date=' has been a good replacement for Helmes. Will edit the list, but only put him into the possible risers section, not sur

Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009

Recognize this?

Alexander Esswein

Daniel Brosinski

Roman Neustadter

Lennart Hartmann

Manuel Salz

Boris Vukcevic

Ilkay Gundogan

Andre Schurrle

Stefan Reinartz

Tony Jantschke

Georg Niedermeier

Sebastian Rudy

Julian Schieber

Marco Terrazzino

Jahmir Hyka

Philipp Heerwagen

Felix Bastians

Oliver Barth

Julian Schuster

Dennis Diekmeier

Dominic Maroh

Havard Nordtveit

Marcel Risse

Dario Vidosic

Mike Franz

Albert Bunjaku

Cristopher Schorch

Do your own research son!

:D

Oh, I remember.

You posted these players in the old Bundesliga Analysis thread WITHOUT any predictions, WITHOUT saying if they will drop or rise or if these players just play at cards together. You just wrote a few names in a list in this thread. Nothing more, nothing less. And this you call research? :D

I'm really looking forward how Phil reacts on this.

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Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009

How is umut Korkmaz doing so far at frankfurt?

Hasn't played one minute in this season up to now. At Frankfurt with Amanatidis' date=' Liberopoulos and Fenin there are some better strikers. And the marks he got from a German newspaper called "Kicker" last season wasn't that good, too (Average: 4.25, only 1 goal in 17 appearances as a striker)

Also is Azaouagh only a possible riser I thought he would be 86/87:confused:

Difficult because I don't know too much about him. Bochum is not very interesting for me. But I agree with you, that out of his appearances he should deserve a 86. But 87 would be too high IMO.

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Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009

:D

Oh' date=' I remember.

You posted these players in the old Bundesliga Analysis thread WITHOUT any predictions, WITHOUT saying if they will drop or rise or if these players just play at cards together. You just wrote a few names in a list in this thread. Nothing more, nothing less. And this you call research? :D

I'm really looking forward how Phil reacts on this.[/quote']

Nobody asked me for rating predictions, somebody asked me who are the other guys who are going to be going up so I posted them. Don't boost son. I call this research because I went through every Bundesliga team to get these guys. That's what you call research. Predicting ratings isn't doing research, that's your opinion, finding the players is the research.

Phil can react how he wants I don't care he knows he took stuff from me.

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Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009

Nobody asked me for rating predictions' date=' somebody asked me who are the other guys who are going to be going up so I posted them. Don't boost son. I call this research because I went through every Bundesliga team to get these guys. That's what you call research. Predicting ratings isn't doing research, that's your opinion, finding the players is the research.

Phil can react how he wants I don't care he knows he took stuff from me.[/quote']

I'm just wondering, can you actually do anything else besides talking bullocks?

Took your list? Half of the players you mentioned aren't even going to rise, so how actually is this 'research'. Players like Hartmann, Jantschke, Salz and a LOT of others are only playing for the reserve or even the youth sides in lower divisions? They all might be young and some of them even talented, but I can guarantee you that quite a few of them won't go up in the next changes.

My research actually consists not of 'going through the Bundesliga teams', but of following the league, watching the players as much as possible and the rest, and only the rest is looking at some stats like minutes played and match rating from kicker.

So you're not only wrongly accusating me of stealing, but are also misleading others here to spend money on players who are going nowhere.

I honestly suggest and politely ask you to stay out of this thread now, else I feel I have to take other steps.

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Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009

I'm just wondering' date=' can you actually do anything else besides talking bullocks?

Took your list? Half of the players you mentioned aren't even going to rise, so how actually is this 'research'. Players like Hartmann, Jantschke, Salz and a LOT of others are only playing for the reserve or even the youth sides in lower divisions? They all might be young and some of them even talented, but I can guarantee you that quite a few of them won't go up in the next changes.

My research actually consists not of 'going through the Bundesliga teams', but of following the league, watching the players as much as possible and the rest, and only the rest is looking at some stats like minutes played and match rating from kicker.

So you're not only wrongly accusating me of stealing, but are also misleading others here to spend money on players who are going nowhere.

I honestly suggest and politely ask you to stay out of this thread now, else I feel I have to take other steps.[/quote']

First of all I don't talk bullocks.

Watch every player on my list rise. Talk to me after German changes. Good for you, follow the league, watch your Sportschau does it make a difference? You may make your predictions like that but do you think SM does? All SM uses is kicker so all you need is kicker. I'm not saying you stole the list, but I'm sure the list helped you somehow. And as I said talk to me after German changes and then tell me I'm misleading people. I appreciate your politeness however we are also on topic and if you take other steps here you're going to have to go do that on every thread that you have control over because this is harmless.

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Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009

he took stuff from me.
I'm not saying you stole the list

Hahaha.

First of all I don't talk bullocks.

Watch every player on my list rise. Talk to me after German changes.

I will' date=' I will. But that won't stop me from posting my opinion now.

Good for you, follow the league, watch your Sportschau does it make a difference? You may make your predictions like that but do you think SM does? All SM uses is kicker so all you need is kicker.

Wrong. The SM researchers do mor than just looking at stats. Being a translator and Community Admin I have a pretty good connection to one the Devs who assured me that the researchers are regularly watching Bundesliga games, I was even asked on my opinion after the last changes, where Tasci AFTERWARDS got his deserved +1 (which tbh probably wasn't my 'influence' alone, but it might have been the final decisive vote)

I'm not saying you stole the list' date=' but I'm sure the list helped you somehow.[/quote']

Already commented on the first part, and tbh, when I first saw your list in the old 2008/2009 thread, I wondered about and even laughed at it in parts, but it certainly didn't help me.

I'll comment on each player on your list, and state the reason why they are (also) in my list or why they are missing.

Nobody asked me for rating predictions' date=' somebody asked me who are the other guys who are going to be going up so I posted them. Don't boost son.[/quote']

I'm just wondering who did that, I haven't seen anyone asking you for your opinion in one of the threads I started, and even if it was, I'm wondering why this can't happen via PM then.

I call this research because I went through every Bundesliga team to get these guys. That's what you call research. Predicting ratings isn't doing research' date=' that's your opinion, finding the players is the research. [/quote']

Finding the player is one part of the research, but it certainly isn't all.

After finding the player, you have to watch him, look at other people's opinions (fans, club staff, experts, media,...), of course gather reliable stats.

All other respected scouts on here (MsF being the most prominent who springs to my mind istantly) will back me up on this, real 'scouting' is more than stats.

Phil can react how he wants I don't care he knows he took stuff from me.

If you don't care' date=' why are you reading this then? And you say you don't talk b...

As promised, I'll now now pick your list to pieces and comment on every player you have, and tell you the reasons why half it is misleading people.

[/quote']

Recognize this?

Alexander Esswein

Has no chance in the Wolfsburg attack' date=' was only subbed in once after 90 minutes this season. Regularly plays for the reserves in the 4th division, so that isn't a reason to rise either. Will probably stay with a slight chance of a +1, but not worth mentioning.

Daniel Brosinski

Still waiting for his break-through, picks up the occassional app as a sub, but nothing special. Might get a +2, but depending on how much he plays and if he impresses also a +1 or a +3 can't be ruled out.

Roman Neustadter

I was the one who made the original thread for him' date=' so how exactly is this stealing? He's a player that kinda even impressed me, always looked solid when he was brought in to strengthen the defense and secure the points in the final minutes. He's in my list with a +2/+3 for last season's games at Mainz, but he currently doesn't have much of a chance at Gladbach.

Lennart Hartmann

2 sub appearances. Won't rise.

Manuel Salz

Played the first 3 games this season while Puplin was still injured/not fit' date=' but has since been dropped to the bench again. Add to that that his performances were awful (10 goals conceded in those 3 games, and a bad kicker rating despite them usually being rather generous towars goalkeepers), and all that's left is the tiny chance of a rise from his 78, which again, performance-wise he wouldn't deserve.

Boris Vukcevic

Since I got him added (along with Pascal Groß), how exactly should you have helped me there? I have in my list with a +2/3 for picking up a couple of minutes at the end of last season and this season so far.

Ilkay Gundogan

Is in my list' date=' without ever having seen him being mentioned elsewhere.

Andre Schurrle

Was the first to mention him on the forums, and also got him added to the DB. Already had him on my radar after the youth cup finale last season which was against Dortmund, where he also played very well.

Stefan Reinartz

A player which was discussed before I made a thread about him' date=' and even more afterwards. I know him since the U-19 Euros 2 years ago, long time before I even knew of SoccerManager let alone you.

Tony Jantschke

A player who has played 250 minutes for the first team should rise from his already high 78? No way.

Georg Niedermeier

Was the first scouting thread I made' date=' how can you claim I took him from your list? 3rd/4th choice CB at Stuttgart, will get a small rise as Babbel likes to rotate his squad.

Sebastian Rudy

Rudy is fine at his 78. Only very few minutes for the first team, but one of the top players for a struggling 3. Liga team. Has the talent to get higher, but not this time, and probably not even in this season.

Julian Schieber

A player which I 'scouted' while watching some 3. Liga games' date=' already had his own thread though and was only mentioned briefly by me on my 3. Liga talents thread, but were I also regularly updated his progress.

Marco Terrazzino

A player which I find extremely overhyped on this forum. He's already a 75, and just played a bit more than 200 minutes for Hoffenheim so far, 4 of them this season. There's no reason why he should rise yet.

Jahmir Hyka

Already an 80' date=' why should he rise. Because of his 3 games as a sub this season? Surely, he's an Albanian international already, that's the only reason why he could keep his 80, if anything, based on club form 80 would even be too high.

Philipp Heerwagen

Displaced South African international Fernandes, but is now injured with a broken jaw, therefore only a small rise as predicted in my first post.

Felix Bastians

I bought (or at least tried to buy) him for many of my teams long before I made this thread' date=' a definite riser as mentioned above. Will change to LB/RB probably as he's more of a defender than a midfielder. Also playing LB for our U21 recently.

Oliver Barth

Probably the biggest joke on your list. He's already 29, rated 78 and should rise based on what? Because he was subbed in last season in almost all his games (despite the one where he was subbed out after half time after a horrible performance). He should be the replacement for Toprak (who btw seems to be on the way up again, it looks like he won't have to end his career, and might already start training again this season), but all he managed to do this season was another early substitution out and 2 late in.

Julian Schuster

Had him on my shortlist for quite a few of my clubs for a long time now' date=' seems to become a regular for Freiburg.

Dennis Diekmeier

I know him since I also knew of Reinartz, and he's still a regular for Nürnberg. Will get a healthy rise as mentioned earlier, but I don't know how you should have helped me finding that out...

Dominic Maroh

A talented player' date=' and now a regular after Reinartz' early end of the loan spell. Also a fine lad btw, made a nice impression when he was interviewed in another famous sports show here, the Sportstudio.

Havard Nordtveit

Just rose in the Norwegian changes, won't get much higher now so early. Plays as a DM btw, but a +2 would probably be max.

Marcel Risse

Do you honestly believe that as a German' date=' who's rather interested in football, I have to look at some stupid list of you to know who Marcel Risse is. He should be on everyone's books after the U19-Euros, and even more after his been getting games for Nürnberg regularly, even though not many of them as a starter.

Dario Vidosic

The only player which is in your list but which I missed on mine that is in for a bigger rise. If I really had taken your list, he would be there, no?

Mike Franz

I take it you mean Frantz' date=' and not that idiot which now plays for Eintracht after always being a 'loyal' KSC player.

If you're talking about Frantz, he's a talented player, but there are quite a couple of players who are picked ahead of him including Risse, so he doesn't really get much playing time. Currently a 78 with a slight chance of a rise, but only if Risse rises to 80 or more.

Albert Bunjaku

Now, this has to be the biggest error on your list. Bunjaku is old, rarely plays and if he does, he's awful. A drop is more likely than a rise.

Cristopher Schorch

Still waiting for his break-through' date=' picks up the occassional app as a sub, but nothing special. Might get a +2, but depending on how much he plays and if he impresses also a +1 or a +3 can't be ruled out.

Didn't really know him before his move to Köln, but so far, he hasn't really impressed there either. His games at RB have been quite disappointing, he rather has the stature of a CB where he IMO would fit in better.

Do your own research son!

I obviously do, else I couldn't explain why I disagree with you in so many points. I'd rather advice you to do some real research yourself instead of what you do now.

And finally, a comment (which I found by browsing through the threads you started just before I made this post) which disqualifies you for all times from being taken seriously ever again.

Next up is the final requested player from the Bundesliga. His name is Christian Lell.

ChristianLell_567104.jpg

Christian Lell is a 23 year old defender who is currently playing for the German Chelsea' date=' Bayern Munchen. At a young age he is a regular for Munchen. He has played almost all of the games in the Bundesliga this season, he has only missed 5. Not to mention that he has played almost all of Bayern's games since the last rating changes. He plays very well actually. In the total 29 games that he has played he has scored 1 goal and gotten 5 assists. He has also started 8 games and was subbed in for 3 games in the UEFA Cup, however he didn't play that well in the UEFA Cup. He also receided 2 starts and 3 subs in the DFB Pokal. Up to now he hasn't had any caps for the German senior squad.

I believe that Lell's contract expire's in the sumer of 2009 so he could be followed by other teams. He is currently rated 89 which is to low for a young starter who is playing for one of the world's richest and most successful clubs. He will probably only make it to 90 in the next changes but he will definitely be higher in the future. He's another long term prospects. Cheers guys, the next reviews will be my own.[/quote']

Lell. You honestly advised people to buy Lell. It can't get any worse than that. Anyone with a slight idea of Germany knows that Lell has never been, is, and will never be a 90 player with potential for the future.

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Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009

Great argument' date='Phil. I agree with you about scouting more than stats. Just want to ldt you know,i'm the first to mentioned Gundogan in separated thread[/quote']

Kudos to you then, but that comment was more aimed towards the fact that I don't neccessarily search the whole forum for the players that are in my list, but rather that I base my predicitions on my opinion rather than anyone else's ;) Doesn't mean that yours isn't valid, I just don't appreciate the fact that someone wrongly accuses me of plagiarism/stealing/whatever ;)

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Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009

what will happen to Miroslav KLOSE? thanks.

It depends. If he still can't get into the first eleven' date=' he'll drop. But apparently the recent lack of games has been because of fitness issues after his injury, when he's fully fit he's easily a 93 player (and tbh, I always thought he was better than Toni).

How's Hleb doing back at Stuttgart Phil? Do you think he can keep his 92?

So far, he has been a bit disappointing IMO. He's still class I think, but after his injury and reserve role at Barca he still isn't on 100%, but I think that he'll find back to his better days when the changes come nearer, if not he might face a drop.

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Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009

Ooooh' date=' what a pummeling [i']lil_kick_kid [/i]has just taken from Phil (GT). A scintillatingly brutal series involving a quick right jab, a fierce left hook, followed by a knockout punch has lil_kick_kid sprawled across the canvas. Can he make the ten-count and attempt a comeback? ;)

The deposed Queen Bee has well and truly been condemned to history (Blair Waldorf & Serena van der Woodsen, anyone? :P).

Phil, how was Sven Bender's performance on his debut against Hannover? Also, any news about Dede's injury?

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Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009

As a Newcastle fan i'd be interested to know how Martins is doing in the Bundesliga - not heard anything of him since his move. Is he injured? Or miles down the pecking order at Wolfsburg? :confused:

Are Badstuber & Muller still getting games at Bayern? Just about to sign both up but wanted to check on them first. They must be due a tasty rise if so.

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Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009

As a Newcastle fan i'd be interested to know how Martins is doing in the Bundesliga - not heard anything of him since his move. Is he injured? Or miles down the pecking order at Wolfsburg? :confused:

Are Badstuber & Muller still getting games at Bayern? Just about to sign both up but wanted to check on them first. They must be due a tasty rise if so.

me too?:D:D

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Re: Bundesliga Risers, Talents and Droppers 2009

Phil' date=' how was Sven Bender's performance on his debut against Hannover? Also, any news about Dede's injury?[/quote']

I couldn't see the game as I was mountaineering on Saturday, but both the media and the the Dortmund fans in the forum I'm in are saying that he did quite well, solid job in the defense but not really dangerous in opening or game.

As a Newcastle fan i'd be interested to know how Martins is doing in the Bundesliga - not heard anything of him since his move. Is he injured? Or miles down the pecking order at Wolfsburg? :confused:

He's regularly getting games for Wolfsburg' date=' he's 3rd choice but due to squad rotation and the fact that WOB sometimes plays with 3 strikers he picks up quite a few minutes, and he certainly doesn't play bad. I don't really know how well he did at Newcastle though, so I'm not sure if his form of last season might increase the chances of a drop. But he certainly won't rise.

Are Badstuber & Muller still getting games at Bayern? Just about to sign both up but wanted to check on them first. They must be due a tasty rise if so.

Yes they do, and they'll get both healthy increases.

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