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Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *


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Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers * kiss my butt villa

Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers * I LOVE being a villa fan

Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Who'd invest? FFP means that a new owner would need to be at the club for a very long time before seeing any reward.

I think that's our problem. There's not really any concrete interest. Or seemingly none anyway.

Which is worrying. We can't keep finishing 15th - 17th without it going ever so slightly wrong one year and drop down. That'd be disastrous. Whatever people say or think, we are a massive club in terms of English football and it's history.

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Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

I think that's our problem. There's not really any concrete interest. Or seemingly none anyway.

Which is worrying. We can't keep finishing 15th - 17th without it going ever so slightly wrong one year and drop down. That'd be disastrous. Whatever people say or think' date=' we are a massive club in terms of English football and it's history.[/quote']

There's no reward for investors now. In order to compete at the top you need money and now you can't chuck money in as a quick fix. Instead you need to accrue money through player sales and commercial deals. Problem is the money only comes in from player sales if you have assets to sell and if you do that then you aren't as enticing to new players and lose your best players. Big commercial deals also don't come in for teams without success. It's all a big roundabout that leads to the top teams staying at the top, which is disgusting IMO. Fortunately City nipped in before the door closed.

I think that without FFP you'd be among the most interesting clubs for potential investors. Great history, good location and a decent infrastructure and fanbase.

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Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

There's no reward for investors now. In order to compete at the top you need money and now you can't chuck money in as a quick fix. Instead you need to accrue money through player sales and commercial deals. Problem is the money only comes in from player sales if you have assets to sell and if you do that then you aren't as enticing to new players and lose your best players. Big commercial deals also don't come in for teams without success. It's all a big roundabout that leads to the top teams staying at the top' date=' which is disgusting IMO. Fortunately City nipped in before the door closed.

I think that without FFP you'd be among the most interesting clubs for potential investors. Great history, good location and a decent infrastructure and fanbase.[/quote']

Why is FFP such a big deal for a club like villa?

as much as i like them they won't be a UCL club for at least 10 years most likely.

therefore if an investor took over, spent 100m or whatever to get them to about 7-8th in the table, then after establishing a business plan to allow them to build on that sucess, and just like any other club at that level become self succient, there is not reason they cannot just wait a few years until FFP does not count and by that time, they wont need such massive investment?

i maybe wrong and missing a FFP rule somewhere, but i hope the point of what i am saying makes sense and if i am wrong somewhere please do correct me.

i just dont think FFP really does much for teams outside the top 4 basically because they arent in europe anyway and 2, its only the last 4 years or so so massive spending to get them to the top then stopped, in their eyes, would be fine...

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Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Somebody still feeling a little bitter?!?! :P

You are literally obsessed with FFP.......

I'm not bitter at all. I feel that City have got away with it somewhat - a slap on the wrist this season and then back to spending what we like as we'll have the commercial income to cover it.

I'm intent on explaining to people who don't grasp FFP why it's such catastrophic legislation for clubs like Villa' date=' Southampton, etc. (pretty much anyone outside this season's top four and United). It kills competition. I feel like I'm in a good place to do this as I've spent time trying to understand FFP given it's consequences to what City were doing.

Why is FFP such a big deal for a club like villa?

as much as i like them they won't be a UCL club for at least 10 years most likely.

therefore if an investor took over, spent 100m or whatever to get them to about 7-8th in the table, then after establishing a business plan to allow them to build on that sucess, and just like any other club at that level become self succient, there is not reason they cannot just wait a few years until FFP does not count and by that time, they wont need such massive investment?

i maybe wrong and missing a FFP rule somewhere, but i hope the point of what i am saying makes sense and if i am wrong somewhere please do correct me.

i just dont think FFP really does much for teams outside the top 4 basically because they arent in europe anyway and 2, its only the last 4 years or so so massive spending to get them to the top then stopped, in their eyes, would be fine...

Under FFP an owner can only invest to the point that his club is on the brink of Europe but isn't in it yet (7th/8th as you say) and that may change when the PL brings in its FFP rules (same regulations as UEFA follows).

Then they will have maintain that level for 3 seasons while the investment clears itself from the FFP monitoring period. If they manage to qualify for Europe then FFP screws them over. If they're only maintaining that level then what do you think the best players at Villa will do? They'll do what all of Southampton's best players are set to do this summer and will leave to the clubs who are already in European competition. It's very difficult to replace those with players of the same standard as without those players, the club is seen as a less attractive option. It's just not plausible to have a business plan that aims for a completely steady ship for 3 seasons with no big changes.

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Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Under FFP an owner can only invest to the point that his club is on the brink of Europe but isn't in it yet (7th/8th as you say) and that may change when the PL brings in its FFP rules (same regulations as UEFA follows).

Then they will have maintain that level for 3 seasons while the investment clears itself from the FFP monitoring period. If they manage to qualify for Europe then FFP screws them over. If they're only maintaining that level then what do you think the best players at Villa will do? They'll do what all of Southampton's best players are set to do this summer and will leave to the clubs who are already in European competition. It's very difficult to replace those with players of the same standard as without those players' date=' the club is seen as a less attractive option. It's just not plausible to have a business plan that aims for a completely steady ship for 3 seasons with no big changes.[/quote']

i would agree with that but in reality i don't think you would stagnate and then have your players leave quite like that.

while i do see your point i think you could invest maybe 25 million a year , for 3 years.

eventually you may get to a regular 13th placed finish, then 10th, 8th and etc so this would take years.

if you invested a lot previously by the time you could even get into the top half of the table your previous history would be wiped out.

it may be difficult getting from 8th into Europe but by that time Villa should have its own income, sponsors, commercial, match day etc that all contribute.

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Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

i would agree with that but in reality i don't think you would stagnate and then have your players leave quite like that.

while i do see your point i think you could invest maybe 25 million a year ' date=' for 3 years.

eventually you may get to a regular 13th placed finish, then 10th, 8th and etc so this would take years.

if you invested a lot previously by the time you could even get into the top half of the table your previous history would be wiped out.

it may be difficult getting from 8th into Europe but by that time Villa should have its own income, sponsors, commercial, match day etc that all contribute.[/quote']

OK, let's look at the top 8 in recent years. First, we have the big 5 of City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and United. These clubs have the revenues to spend a lot. Then there are Spurs and Everton who are fairly stable and can buy, but often have to sell their best players to those top 5 and other top clubs abroad (cases in point Bale, Modric, Fellaini and Arteta). That leaves that final open spot.

This year was Southampton, who have already lost Lambert and are rumoured to be losing Shaw, Lallana and possibly others. Last season it was West Brom thanks to the strikeforce of Lukaku, Long and Odemwingie who are all no longer at the club. In 11/12 it was Newcastle who have since lost arguably their best players in Ba and Cabaye. The year before that it was Fulham who have since lost Dembele and Dempsey and have been relegated this season. It's a sad fact that the nearly clubs have their best players pinched by the clubs with resources.

You are not allowed to invest any money that the club doesn't create in revenue. This season's FFP allowable losses will be £37m over 3 seasons and that limit will be reduced in coming years. The revenues of those nearly clubs cannot compete with the revenues of the clubs at the top so they can't compete in the market and are thus very unlikely to compete on the pitch and certainly not for a sustained period.

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Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

OK' date=' let's look at the top 8 in recent years. First, we have the big 5 of City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and United. These clubs have the revenues to spend a lot. Then there are Spurs and Everton who are fairly stable and can buy, but often have to sell their best players to those top 5 and other top clubs abroad (cases in point Bale, Modric, Fellaini and Arteta). That leaves that final open spot.

This year was Southampton, who have already lost Lambert and are rumoured to be losing Shaw, Lallana and possibly others. Last season it was West Brom thanks to the strikeforce of Lukaku, Long and Odemwingie who are all no longer at the club. In 11/12 it was Newcastle who have since lost arguably their best players in Ba and Cabaye. The year before that it was Fulham who have since lost Dembele and Dempsey and have been relegated this season. It's a sad fact that the nearly clubs have their best players pinched by the clubs with resources.

You are not allowed to invest any money that the club doesn't create in revenue. This season's FFP allowable losses will be £37m over 3 seasons and that limit will be reduced in coming years. The revenues of those nearly clubs cannot compete with the revenues of the clubs at the top so they can't compete in the market and are thus very unlikely to compete on the pitch and certainly not for a sustained period.[/quote']

i think that you have made a valid point, in reality your chances of keeping top players like modric, bale etc for tottenham then go on to really dent your chances.

i think you need to have great boardroom staff to re-invest the money you get well otherwise you will go backwards.

So i do agree in reality it is a lot more difficult to get around FFP but thats because of you losing talent more so than anything I feel.

So yeah I do think that fair play by itself, doesn't really stop too much in the long term but like you said the stagnation period you would require would either mean going into Europe and getting hammered by FFP, or stagnating a bit and unless your like porto etc and have great new , regular income of top class players and a great transfer model, you would just eventually slip back down.

I think it could be done but definitely a lot more difficult than it was before.

Everton now it is a shame - they could spend 40m on players to really try and cement a top 4 finish which they just missed out on with very little investment, but they would have to take the risk that they would definitely break even because if they slipped up on that money they'd be broke or FFP would slam them...

Cheers for the reply I think i was ( and knew i was initially to a point) not looking at the reality of FFP in enough detail, it has been an enlightening point indeed :)

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Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Very poor from Villa, as good of a player as Joe Cole was he hasn't shown anything at West Ham to convince me he's up to it in the Premier League. Likewise with Senderos, at the end of his time at Fulham he didn't look Premier League standard.

I think that the chance of Villa going down keeps on increasing, with more and more first team members joining who don't look up to this level. I think the pressure has got to Lambert, he faces criticism for having a lack of experience but Senderos and Joe Cole are not the answer, the experience in the squad needs to be good enough to play at this level.

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Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Very poor from Villa' date=' as good of a player as Joe Cole was he hasn't shown anything at West Ham to convince me he's up to it in the Premier League. Likewise with Senderos, at the end of his time at Fulham he didn't look Premier League standard.

I think that the chance of Villa going down keeps on increasing, with more and more first team members joining who don't look up to this level. I think the pressure has got to Lambert, he faces criticism for having a lack of experience but Senderos and Joe Cole are not the answer, the experience in the squad needs to be good enough to play at this level.[/quote']

i dont get this experience nonsense, if a player is young but good 9/10 he will be better than an old rubbish player.

maybe its a lack of money but villa really need to bring players in, even west ham can spend 20m on a forward like carrol....

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Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

i dont get this experience nonsense' date=' if a player is young but good 9/10 he will be better than an old rubbish player.

maybe its a lack of money but villa really need to bring players in, even west ham can spend 20m on a forward like carrol....[/quote']

There is a certain degree of experience needed in successful teams. For example players with experience can help a team to see a narrow win out. It's far from the be all and end all though, and quality will shine through in the majority of cases.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Roy Keane to be confirmed as @AVFCOfficial assistant manager later today.

Lambert better watch his back and if he runs into a poor spell' date=' he could get sacked.[/quote']

Don't really know how I feel about this. Good to have someone with a backbone in the management team but I really don't like Roy Keane.

I hope he brings me round. We need a big kick up the bum after the last two seasons.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

So after the stellar signings of Phillipe Senderos and Joe Cole' date=' it seems the arrival of Kieran Richardson is imminent. Now there's rumours of us making a move for Nicklas Bendtner once Sanchez goes to Arsenal. :(

If this wasn't us I'd be laughing so hard[/quote']

These really don't seem like Lambert signings :confused:

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Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

So after the stellar signings of Phillipe Senderos and Joe Cole' date=' it seems the arrival of Kieran Richardson is imminent. Now there's rumours of us making a move for Nicklas Bendtner once Sanchez goes to Arsenal. :(

If this wasn't us I'd be laughing so hard[/quote']

Grealish needs to be given a chance.

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Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

These really don't seem like Lambert signings :confused:

I know' date=' tell me about it :confused:

I can only imagine that he's been told that he's going to have no money to spend until we're sold (we're for sale remember - I nearly didn't!)

If nothing happens soon then I think we're in big big trouble :(

Grealish needs to be given a chance.

I thought he would be. He might still be given a chance you never know. It's just annoying, we should be pushing on from doing a very hard thing in staying in the PL with a young inexperienced squad. Now we're becoming a retirement home

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