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Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *


Magic J
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Guest 1CapWonder

Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

So you guys still critical of Dunne and Collins? They won you the match today' date=' and I'm not talking about their goals! Collins block in particular in the first half prevented a near-certain goal. Friedel played a massive part as well, and more than made-up for the mistake for the first goal.

Good to see Milner starting to fulfil his potential as well.

And Delph was massive for you today. Without him you'd have lost for sure. :P[/quote']

I wasn't critical of Dunne. Collins yes.

I've highlighted why he isn't great. Obviously a neutral is going to see Collins' blocks and tackles, as is MOTD :rolleyes:

As a fan of Villa, I am watching the game intensely, as I'm sure you are when you watch Leeds. Try seeing what leads up to a Collins block. I can assure you that half of the time, it is a mistimed jump leading to the opposition gaining possession in behind. A long aimless ball by him that comes straight back. Poor positional sense, meaning he has to atone for his error and get back into place.

Collins IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. I don't like him, nor do most Villa fans. I certainly got nothing but agreement when I criticised him in the Holte End today. I can assure you that the guys that watch him week in week out, feel the same. Worst 5m we have ever spent. Not good enough.

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Guest 1CapWonder

Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Bosko Balaban :D

Least Collins scored for us :P

Wasn't he 6m?

Would still rather have Balaban than Collins. He scored a hell of a load of goals away from us, including quite a few for Croatia I think!!!

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Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Wasn't he 6m?

Would still rather have Balaban than Collins. He scored a hell of a load of goals away from us' date=' including quite a few for Croatia I think!!![/quote']

Yeah he was 6 , which doesnt excatly help your point, he was awful, we loaned him out virtually as soon as he joined ! for the rest of his contract to the team we bought him off :eek:

I dont think Collins is good enough but we needed a CB and he will have to do, my mates a west ham fan, a big one at that and he lkes him and was gutted he went. nostalgia ? maybe, i dont know but he is doin a job i just hope his mistakes get cut out or just dont cost us to much

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Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Wasn't he 6m?

Would still rather have Balaban than Collins. He scored a hell of a load of goals away from us' date=' including quite a few for Croatia I think!!![/quote']

150 in 301 career league games and 10 in 35 internationals for croatia balaban is the worst signing in villa history way to harsh to compare collins to him.

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Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Yeah he was 6 ' date=' which doesnt excatly help your point, he was awful, we loaned him out virtually as soon as he joined ! for the rest of his contract to the team we bought him off :eek:

I dont think Collins is good enough but we needed a CB and he will have to do, my mates a west ham fan, a big one at that and he lkes him and was gutted he went. nostalgia ? maybe, i dont know but he is doin a job i just hope his mistakes get cut out or just dont cost us to much[/quote']

I was down in London the other week and popped in an Albion pub in Brixton (I think) where a few Hammers fans were drinking. Without fail they all rated him higher than Upson, which seems like pretty high praise.

And generally on Collins I've heard nothing but good things off my Villa mates, who for the record go every week. He's clearly going to have his faults and long-term he might fall on his face but he's obviously doing something right at the moment.

I don't think it's strictly true that most Villa fans don't like him. I pop over to Heroes and Villains occasionaly (though more to see the hilarious overeaction when you've lost to be honest:p) and there was a 4 or 5 page thread on what a good signing he's been.

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Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

I was down in London the other week and popped in an Albion pub in Brixton (I think) where a few Hammers fans were drinking. Without fail they all rated him higher than Upson' date=' which seems like pretty high praise.

And generally on Collins I've heard nothing but good things off my Villa mates, who for the record go every week. He's clearly going to have his faults and long-term he might fall on his face but he's obviously doing something right at the moment.

I don't think it's strictly true that most Villa fans don't like him. I pop over to Heroes and Villains occasionaly (though more to see the hilarious overeaction when you've lost to be honest:p) and there was a 4 or 5 page thread on what a good signing he's been.[/quote']

Today was the first time iv seen him live, actually at the game, he played quite well, made a few mistakes, i just dont like him, which probably isnt fair on the bloke, but thats me !

My friend also said he rated him higher than Upson, i will no doubt grow to appreciate him aslong as he dont peeve me off to much :)

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Guest 1CapWonder

Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

I was down in London the other week and popped in an Albion pub in Brixton (I think) where a few Hammers fans were drinking. Without fail they all rated him higher than Upson' date=' which seems like pretty high praise.

And generally on Collins I've heard nothing but good things off my Villa mates, who for the record go every week. He's clearly going to have his faults and long-term he might fall on his face but he's obviously doing something right at the moment.

I don't think it's strictly true that most Villa fans don't like him. I pop over to Heroes and Villains occasionaly (though more to see the hilarious overeaction when you've lost to be honest:p) and there was a 4 or 5 page thread on what a good signing he's been.[/quote']

Looks like we speak to very different people then... :rolleyes:

Fair enough, in all respect I have been watching him very closely since his arrival. Watching with my mate I do comment on his every touch, whether it be good or bad and I feel I'm fair in most occasions. Last week I watched Carew's first 6 touches against City. He controlled the ball, and gave it away EVERY time. This is something no one else would have probably noticed. City fans I spoke to didn't. Villa fans didn't know it till I told them.

Since that I feel that perhaps this is the same thing. I've put Collins under intense scrutiny in my own mind, and I have seen his frailties. More times than not I am moaning rather than praising and that for me is a bad sign. I'm more than happy to give people a chance. I was harsh on him early on because he didn't ask to be paid 5m for. For me bad business. I've seen him play, I'm a Villa fan, I get behind my players. But if they are not good enough, then I say so.

Collins isn't good enough.

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Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Looks like we speak to very different people then... :rolleyes:

Fair enough' date=' in all respect I have been watching him very closely since his arrival. Watching with my mate I do comment on his every touch, whether it be good or bad and I feel I'm fair in most occasions. Last week I watched Carew's first 6 touches against City. He controlled the ball, and gave it away EVERY time. This is something no one else would have probably noticed. City fans I spoke to didn't. Villa fans didn't know it till I told them.

Since that I feel that perhaps this is the same thing. I've put Collins under intense scrutiny in my own mind, and I have seen his frailties. More times than not I am moaning rather than praising and that for me is a bad sign. I'm more than happy to give people a chance. I was harsh on him early on because he didn't ask to be paid 5m for. For me bad business. I've seen him play, I'm a Villa fan, I get behind my players. But if they are not good enough, then I say so.

Collins isn't good enough.[/quote']

I've not seen enough of him to make a judgement, I must admit when you paid £5m I thought it was a bit steep given his injury record and the fact he's never really been outstanding when he has played. I can only go on what I've been told, thought it would be interesting to put across a different viewpoint.

I do think theres perhaps a danger of over analysing when you watch somebody that closely, but obviously if he is making errors in this league he'll get punished for them eventually, so time will tell.

Personally I'd have Cuellar and Dunne as your best partnership, but again I haven't really watched enough of the Villa to say anything of any substance.

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Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Today was the first time iv seen him live' date=' actually at the game, he played quite well, made a few mistakes, i just dont like him, which probably isnt fair on the bloke, but thats me !

My friend also said he rated him higher than Upson, i will no doubt grow to appreciate him aslong as he dont peeve me off to much :)[/quote']

He's ginger and Welsh, on that basis nobody likes him. ;)

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Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

We beat Chelsea (who for the record played very well) and on the Villa thread I see more complaining than celebrating. Typical Villans. :rolleyes:

They pressured a lot in the second half, but there were only a few spells where they really looked like scoring (when we had the heroics of Collins and Dunne to rescue us ;)). We had good chances as well however and could easily have been 3-1 ahead. Not to mention the penalty shout and Chelseas goal being very lucky in the first place. Collins is no replacement for Laursen, but he has slotted into his role well and has a good partnership with Dunne forming. We played great, and in my opinion, fully deserved the win. I'd just like to think we could take a break from moaning and slating our team to actually be happy for once.

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Guest 1CapWonder

Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

I've not seen enough of him to make a judgement' date=' I must admit when you paid £5m I thought it was a bit steep given his injury record and the fact he's never really been outstanding when he has played. I can only go on what I've been told, thought it would be interesting to put across a different viewpoint.

I do think theres perhaps a danger of over analysing when you watch somebody that closely, but obviously if he is making errors in this league he'll get punished for them eventually, so time will tell.

Personally I'd have Cuellar and Dunne as your best partnership, but again I haven't really watched enough of the Villa to say anything of any substance.[/quote']

Fair point. Apologies for getting quite heated. I had this discussion the other week when we played City. Again I was watching Collins quite closely, keen to see what I could learn, and pointed out his every move to my Villa mate who had no real opinion before this game on him, having only seen him at Ewood Park, where he was admittedly not great against Blackburn.

After this, we were both under the impression that he was quite poor, and clumsy and coming into school next day I was quite amazed to hear the City fans giving rave reviews of his performance. One diehard City fan I know claimed to his Upmost that Collins never lost anything in the air to Adebayor. I, being who I am found this very very frustrating. Brought in a recording of the game 2 days later, and showed him 6 occasions where Collins was beaten in the air, unable to jump as Adebayor controlled, or simply jumping under the ball and missing the header completely. Thankfully, he admitted his mistakes. I don't want to criticise too much but when people seem to think otherwise I give my opinion. Although I know you were just going off what people had said, which is what a few people have been doing.

Until we start losing, I don't think Collins will lose his place, and I fully agree that it should be Cuellar and Dunne there. Cuellars distribution as I said earlier, is simply shocking for him to play at Right Back.

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Guest 1CapWonder

Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

We beat Chelsea (who for the record played very well) and on the Villa thread I see more complaining than celebrating. Typical Villans. :rolleyes:

They pressured a lot in the second half' date=' but there were only a few spells where they really looked like scoring (when we had the [b']heroics of Collins[/b] and Dunne to rescue us ;)). We had good chances as well however and could easily have been 3-1 ahead. Not to mention the penalty shout and Chelseas goal being very lucky in the first place. Collins is no replacement for Laursen, but he has slotted into his role well and has a good partnership with Dunne forming. We played great, and in my opinion, fully deserved the win. I'd just like to think we could take a break from moaning and slating our team to actually be happy for once.

I only moan when I see people under the illusion that Collins is a hero for burying a free header when he had no one within 5 yards of him... :rolleyes:

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Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

I only moan when I see people under the illusion that Collins is a hero for burying a free header when he had no one within 5 yards of him... :rolleyes:

I was more refering to his block which stopped Chelsea going level. My point still stands - we beat the 6/5 favourites to win the league and you come on here moaning about how terrible we are.

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Guest 1CapWonder

Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

I was more refering to his block which stopped Chelsea going level. My point still stands - we beat the 6/5 favourites to win the league and you come on here moaning about how terrible we are.

Again :mad:

I am not moaning about how terrible we are, I am moaning about how terrible Collins is. There is a difference.

I didn't see MOTD but if it is the block you are referring to, have a watch of the full game and you'll see it was Collins' mistake and poor positioning, that meant he had to get all the way across and atone for his error. Excellent block, but something that could have been prevented with bog standard defending.

Wish to mis-quote me anymore? :)

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Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Still disagree with Cuellar at RB' date=' distribution simply not good enough. Should be our first choice CB every flipping week. Warnock is not as good on the ball as Nicky Shorey, which frustrates me, but there is no doubt he is stronger in the tackle and better in the air...just.[/quote']
Petrov had an excellent game' date=' as did Milner, but what is wrong with Ashley Young right now?? Bar the 2 bog standard corners, his delivery was terrible today, as it has been all year so far. Not running at players. Only decent pass I can remember was the one to Jimmy before Carew (who was ok today) missed his chance.[/quote']
Gabby is one of the most frustrating players I have ever seen at Villa. He lacks a footballing brain' date=' and plays on instinct. When he's chasing something or shooting quickly without time, he's very productive and good. But when he has to hold the ball up, time a header, think about a first touch or a pass, he is simply not at the same level as U18, League 2 academy players. Yet he must always stay on the pitch, or be in the England squad, because his pace is so threatening.[/quote']

Just Collins? These are extracts from your first post after we beat the league leaders. You are moaning about how O'Neill uses Cuellar, subtle digs at Dunne and Warnock, then go on to slate Gabby and Ashley. Thats the bones of the team you are moaning about, not just Collins.

Also, I didn't even see MotD, but I did watch the game. And even if Collins was to blame for Chelsea getting the good opportunity, at least he tracked back and amended for it, which is more than other players would do. Lighten up! 'Fans' like you are why we Villans get a bad name. :rolleyes:

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Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

I'm not going to tell you how to feel, and you obviously watch Collins more than I do (for the record I do watch more than MotD), but to me it just sounds like you want him to be bad (maybe because of the ridiculous transfer fee) subconsciously. I know I've done the same and I still do, for some reason I just dislike certain players and I can't help but moan at everything they do, and then grudgingly admit it when they do well.

I'm not saying Collins is world class, nor is he worth anything like his transfer fee, but he is certainly not terrible. I do think he should be behind Cuellar, Dunne and Davies in the pecking order, but he's still a very capable defender at this level, was very solid for West Ham and is more than good enough as a squad player.

Anyway, maybe we should lighten the topic up. Opinions on O'Neill's injury? A nasty graze to the elbow there. Anelka should be booked. :D

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Guest 1CapWonder

Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Just Collins? These are extracts from your first post after we beat the league leaders. You are moaning about how O'Neill uses Cuellar' date=' subtle digs at Dunne and Warnock, then go on to slate Gabby and Ashley. Thats the bones of the team you are moaning about, not just Collins.

Also, I didn't even see MotD, but I did watch the game. And even if Collins was to blame for Chelsea getting the good opportunity, at least he tracked back and amended for it, which is more than other players would do. Lighten up! '[b']Fans' like you are why we Villans get a bad name.[/b] :rolleyes:

You said that I said Villa were terrible. When did I say that? When did I say Villa were terrible. It's easy to make me sound like I'm against us. I think certain areas of what we are doing are very poor, and I stick by my points. They were not subtle. There was nothing sneaky about them. I made my points clear. I disagree with Cuellar at RB. Hardly a dig at Warnock, by saying he is not as good as Shorey on the ball. Didn't I compliment him too? Yes. Hardly slating Ashley when he has been poor all year, and if you disagree with my points on Gabby then I am not entirely sure how much football you actually watch. I called him a productive and effective footballer after all... Your point again sorry? :confused:

With regards to the comment I bolded, I honestly hope that this was tongue in cheek and not what you really meant because honestly I find it very very offensive. I am 17. I live in Manchester. To go to a home game and watch Villa costs me £40 in just tickets and train fare's. I have been to 8 games this year so far, home and away. I travel all that way, I pay my money, I sing my heart out and for 90 minutes I give Villa my all. This is why I find your comment extremely insulting. Again, I sincerely hope that it was not a serious comment, never the less I have taken it to heart. I put everything into watching Villa, and so I am worthy of my opinion.

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Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

Destine there is nothing wrong with highlighing areas of concern even after a fantastic result against result. Lets not kid outselves here that performance was far from perfect, we didnt dominate did we ? they could of easily equalised, just as easily as we could of gone 3-1 up.

This is a footballing forum and we like to discuss a little more than "yay we won". :rolleyes:

So because i dont like Collins as much as i probably should " we are moaning " er no. I disagree with Elliot regarding Shorey but thats each to their own, but you cant come on making sarcastic jibes at us. Until uni i held a season ticket at Villa for 5 seasons, going regularly for longer. If thats a typical VIlla fan, willing to spend his money on his club and support them as much as he can, thats a real good thing.

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Re: Offical Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers *

1 cap wonder....couldnt have put it any better with the gabby comments, he is so bad at times and so frustrating, if he did have a footballers brain like ashley young he could be worrld class, he touch is terrible but he is a constant threat and has a nack for scoring lucky goals lol

My biggest concern isnt collins but is sidwell..the lad does nothing in games the game just goes past him, and in such a key position..especially now MON is playing 4-4-2, i prefer reo but seems out of favour now and delph is too young to be kept in the side....maybe downing as iv heard MON see's him as a CM?

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