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Re: England world cup squad?

You don't though' date=' really. It's cliche thats not backed up by history. The current World Champions used Luca Toni up front last tournament, who at times looked like he couldn't hit a barn door. The French team in 98 had Guivarch to fill a similar role and yet people constantly ignore it's merits. If Heskey up top gets 10% more out of Rooney and Gerrard by allowing them more space and retaining more ball then it more than makes up for his lack of goals himself.[/quote']

Toni is an underestimated target man, and far more of a threat than Heskey, to class them as the same type of player is a crime tbh.

Guivarch was a complete fluke, what did he end up doing in the premier league (when it wasn't as strong as it was now) imo, I feel that crouch can be the target man when needed, as well as carry the goal threat which Heskey doesn't have, and playing Defoe allows Rooney the freedom to roam alongsode Gerrard and still have the striker up top in Defoe. I feel that when Rooney and Heskey play together that we look toothless because both players are by natuer deep-lying.

Has he been used as a striker? I honestly didn't know that. The only thing I've seen to suggest he's not a winger is Wenger saying he sees his future long-term down the middle. As far as I'm aware right now he's been pretty consistently used on the wing by both club and country when available though. The key with him is he provides you with an option as a 5th striker in his secondary position' date=' and as mentioned elsewhere if you take 4 strikers (as in 06) and get injuries (as in 06) you'll get absolutely ripped to shreds (as in 06). That is after all the versatility that you said was crucial. ;)[/quote']

Walcott has been used as a striker, and I see your point about the versatlity argument I mentioned in the initial post. But, If we have a striker crisis as mentioned here, we have the ability to either play Joe Cole in the hole, and stick Rooney up top, or play Milner or Cole on the left, and use Gerrard in the 2nd striker role he's made his own at Liverpool.

If Walcott had to take the call as a striker in a crisis, I'd still rather have him on the bench.

I'd take Lennon, Lampard, Barry, J Cole with Gerrard off Rooney than Lennon, Lampard, Barry, Gerrard with Walcott and Rooney up top.

I know I said Rooney isn't the ideal man to play as the furthest up, but I feel that Walcott isn't valuable enough overall to be included.

Like I say, threads like these divide opinions, and I like the fact that seeing the comeback to my post I got 21 out of 23 right :D but I'll probably end up totally wrong, and someone will play their backside off between now and the squad announcement and get in on merit.

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Re: England world cup squad? Goalkeepers: 1 James: More likely to win you a game than loose you a game these days and even at the ripe old age of 39 still capable of making a World Cup winning save.

Re: England world cup squad? Agree 100%, the beauty is theres no right answer. I'm just glad I don't actually have to pick the squad, no matter who he picks he'll get stick for it.

Re: England world cup squad?

with the south african world cup just around the corner who would be in your 23 man squad for the summer?

goalkeepers

1 james

2 foster

3 green

defenders

4 a.cole

5 gibbs

6 johnson

7 richards

8 terry

9 ferdinand

10 upson

11 lescott

midfielders

12 beckham

13 gerrard

14 lampard

15 barry

16 walcott

17 lennon

18 carrick

19 j.cole

forwards

20 rooney

21 defoe

22 crouch

23 heskey/bent/owen/Agbonlahor

what would your 23 be???

Goal-Keepers:

James

Foster

Hart

Defenders:

Johnson

Richards

A.Cole

Baines

Ferdinand

Terry

Lescott

Jagielka (Unless He Will Still Be Injured)

Midfielders:

Young

Wright Phillips

Gerrard

Lampard

Carrick

Barry

Milner

J.Cole

Forwards:

Rooney

C.Cole

Owen (If Good Form)

Defoe.

That Is Who I Would Choose.

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Re: England world cup squad?

goalkeepers

1 james

2 kirkland

3 green

defenders

4 a.cole

5 baines

6 johnson

7 jagielka

8 terry

9 ferdinand

10 upson

11 lescott

midfielders

12 beckham

13 gerrard

14 lampard

15 barry

16 agbonlahor

17 lennon

18 carrick

19 j.cole

forwards

20 rooney

21 heskey

22 defoe

23 c.cole

I would play something like this

-----------------James---------------------

Johnson----Terry-------Ferdinand-----A.Cole

-----------Beckham----Gerrard--------------

Lennon---------Lampard-------------Rooney

-----------------Heskey--------------------

The defence speaks for itself

I beleive that Beckham HAS to be included he is our only player that can set up a goal from anywhere on the park. He could just sit where he is and distribute the ball abit like Alonso.

Gerrard is the only England midfielder that can tackle so he is restricted to being a collasus in our own half.

Lennon wide right with his pace running at the opposition defence every time he gets the ball. Or slipping it inside for Lampard/Heskey.

Lampard attacking mid capable of scoring from long range and he can link up play with rooney/lennon/heskey.

Rooney likes to drop of anyway and be involved in the play so i have put him wide left but I would give him a free role and let him move about to get the other team thinking and give them abit of trouble.

With a lone striker it has got to be a big man that knows what he is doing and the obvious choice is heskey. Holding up the ball and winning balls in the air, generally giving the opposition centre backs a hard time.

So basically the tactic is, win the ball in defence... give it to beckham/gerrard... preferably beckham... he makes passes to lampard/rooney/lennon and within 2 passes we have a dangerous player on the ball, 3 players up supporting him and the opposition goal in sight.

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Re: England world cup squad?

You don't though' date=' really. It's cliche thats not backed up by history. The current World Champions used [b']Luca Toni [/b]up front last tournament, who at times looked like he couldn't hit a barn door. The French team in 98 had Guivarch to fill a similar role and yet people constantly ignore it's merits. If Heskey up top gets 10% more out of Rooney and Gerrard by allowing them more space and retaining more ball then it more than makes up for his lack of goals himself.

Roko mate, you know i completely agree with you 110% on the importance of heskey to england. I think he is an untouchable in capello's starting 11.

But, using toni and guivarch to illustrate that point isnt ideal. Toni scored 50 serie A goals in the 2 seasons before WC 2006, while i think i read somewhere that guivarch was top scorer in lige1 the 2 years before france 98. So, my point is, if those guys had heskey' goal scoring record, im fairly sure they would not have been selected and played as much as they did:D

But, wholehearted agree on the general point about heskey

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Re: England world cup squad?

I haven't read this whole thread as I'm a bit narky and it's all a bit wordy. However, there are a couple of points I would like to make.

Paul Robinson: For me, he's the best goalkeeper we have right now. Out of all the contenders, he's in the best form at the moment, in my opinion. I have been very unconvinced by Foster when I've seen him this season, while James isn't a starting option for me - you always worry when his calamitous side shall show up. Green and Kirkland are both decent 'keepers but only Green is capable of challenging to start. Robinson has been very impressive whenever I've seen Blackburn this season (and that's on at least 3 occasions) and he has the experience at that level. At the very least, he deserves to be on the plane and should be number two behind Green or James (in all likelihood). If I were manager, however, I'd be starting him.

Michael Owen: I realise there has been a big debate on the strikers and who we should take. Rooney's got to go of course, Heskey's got to go and Defoe sure as hell deserves to go, the form he's been in this season. I recognise the argument for Carlton Cole in that he's a like-for-like for Heskey but he's just not good enough, in my opinion - he's not World Cup standard. Michael Owen is a goalscorer. If you are down by a goal as full-time or extra-time is ticking down, he's your man to get you a goal. His last-gasp winner against Man City proved that as he has that predatorial instinct to be in the right place at the right time. There isn't another England striker like that and I think he needs to be on the plane to South Africa. The only trouble is trying to manufacture the squad to accomodate Owen as it's arguable that we need Rooney, Defoe, Heskey and Cole. And that's completely disregarding Peter Crouch.

Just one final thought, and this is more me playing devil's advocate more than anything. Wildcard suggestion: David Dunn. Thoughts?

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Re: England world cup squad?

Roko mate' date=' you know i completely agree with you 110% on the importance of heskey to england. I think he is an untouchable in capello's starting 11.

But, using toni and guivarch to illustrate that point isnt ideal. Toni scored 50 serie A goals in the 2 seasons before WC 2006, while i think i read somewhere that guivarch was top scorer in lige1 the 2 years before france 98. So, my point is, if those guys had heskey' goal scoring record, im fairly sure they would not have been selected and played as much as they did:D

But, wholehearted agree on the general point about heskey[/quote']

I wasn't so much comparing them as players as trying to make a wider point about not necessarily needing a striker who's going to score goals once you get there. Disregarding their respective club records neither of them had the most prolific time at the tournaments, but both got more out of the more talented players around them. Toni only got a couple I think, and I don't recall Guivarch scoring at all, though he didn't start every game. Yet both lead the line for World Cup winning teams.

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Re: England world cup squad?

Just one final thought' date=' and this is more me playing devil's advocate more than anything. Wildcard suggestion: [b']David Dunn[/b]. Thoughts?

We're bereft of players in the middle of the park who can bring some imagination and invention, so he's certainly worth a look as a potential Lampard backup. It depends who's in form come the summer though, he might burn himself out yet. I put much the same question to my mates the other day, but about Danny Murphy.

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Re: England world cup squad?

I wasn't so much comparing them as players as trying to make a wider point about not necessarily needing a striker who's going to score goals once you get there. Disregarding their respective club records neither of them had the most prolific time at the tournaments' date=' but both got more out of the more talented players around them. Toni only got a couple I think, and I don't recall Guivarch scoring at all, though he didn't start every game. Yet both lead the line for World Cup winning teams.[/quote']

look, i understand what you are saying. But my point is, with hindsight, if Lippi knew Toni would fire blanks in most of the games, there is a very good chance he would not have started at all. Toni played regularly because of his goal scoring record in the league, not so much as he could hold up the ball. Gilardino and iaquinta can both hold up the ball too, but it was toni's goals that made him lippi's number 1 striker. Italy dont value "the ability to hold up the ball and defend from the front' as much as the english. the only reason why heskey is so important to england, is because the english have a bad habit of hoofing the long ball up front when they are tight situations. That's why a heskey or a crouch is a must for you guys.as for the italians, we can play the ball on the surface very well too. And if say di natale scored 30 goals leading up to WC 06, and toni only scored 10, then im fairly certain Lippi would have played di natale. But of course, he would have had to readapt the tactics and the rest of the team as well. But we italians can do that without making a meal of it, and without the media jumping on our backs about nothing all the time:D

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Re: England world cup squad?

look' date=' i understand what you are saying. But my point is, with hindsight, if Lippi knew Toni would fire blanks in most of the games, there is a very good chance he would not have started at all. Toni played regularly because of his goal scoring record in the league, not so much as he could hold up the ball. Gilardino and iaquinta can both hold up the ball too, but it was toni's goals that made him lippi's number 1 striker. Italy dont value "the ability to hold up the ball and defend from the front' as much as the english. the only reason why heskey is so important to england, is because the english have a bad habit of hoofing the long ball up front when they are tight situations. That's why a heskey or a crouch is a must for you guys.as for the italians, we can play the ball on the surface very well too. And if say di natale scored 30 goals leading up to WC 06, and toni only scored 10, then im fairly certain Lippi would have played di natale. But of course, he would have had to readapt the tactics and the rest of the team as well. But we italians can do that without making a meal of it, and without the media jumping on our backs about nothing all the time:D[/quote']

I wouldn't argue with any that.

I think maybe the fact I said Guivarch was fulfilling a similar role in the post is overcomplicating what I meant to say a little. I'm sure that they both got into the team for differing reasons to Heskey, all I was saying in response to Craig was that the sentiment that teams need goals from everywhere in order to challenge at World Cups isn't necessarily true. I picked those two out purely because they lead the line for two of the last three winners and weren't prolific. And Ronaldo wouldn't quite have fit my agenda. ;)

Incidently I read that Lippi's going to watch Samp at the weekend. Is he finally showing signs of relenting on Cassano?

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Re: England world cup squad?

I wouldn't argue with any that.

I think maybe the fact I said Guivarch was fulfilling a similar role in the post is overcomplicating what I meant to say a little. I'm sure that they both got into the team for differing reasons to Heskey' date=' all I was saying in response to Craig was that the sentiment that teams need goals from everywhere in order to challenge at World Cups isn't necessarily true. I picked those two out purely because they lead the line for two of the last three winners and weren't prolific. And Ronaldo wouldn't quite have fit my agenda. ;)

Incidently I read that Lippi's going to watch Samp at the weekend. Is he finally showing signs of relenting on Cassano?[/quote']

cassano has planned his wedding for the summer right in the middle of the WC, i think he has given up any chance of the call up. Lippi i think is going to the game purely to rub it in:D

or perhaps he wants to take a further look at pazzini, palombo or even mannini.. who knows

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Re: England world cup squad?

cassano has planned his wedding for the summer right in the middle of the WC' date=' i think he has given up any chance of the call up. Lippi i think is going to the game purely to rub it in:D

or perhaps he wants to take a further look at pazzini, palombo or even mannini.. who knows[/quote']

:D That's a shame. As much as he can absolutely batpoop mental he'd definately bring something to the tournament.

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Re: England world cup squad?

I haven't read this whole thread as I'm a bit narky and it's all a bit wordy. However' date=' there are a couple of points I would like to make.

[b']Paul Robinson[/b]: For me, he's the best goalkeeper we have right now. Out of all the contenders, he's in the best form at the moment, in my opinion. I have been very unconvinced by Foster when I've seen him this season, while James isn't a starting option for me - you always worry when his calamitous side shall show up. Green and Kirkland are both decent 'keepers but only Green is capable of challenging to start. Robinson has been very impressive whenever I've seen Blackburn this season (and that's on at least 3 occasions) and he has the experience at that level. At the very least, he deserves to be on the plane and should be number two behind Green or James (in all likelihood). If I were manager, however, I'd be starting him.

Robinson. He honestly wouldn't even be my 3rd keeper. Blackburn fans themselves are far from impressed with him. His criticism being he gets beaten to easily from far out. And he isn't anywhere near as commanding as I would like not any of the other candidates are but they are all more consistent. My 3 would be Green, Kirkland and James in order.

Just one final thought' date=' and this is more me playing devil's advocate more than anything. Wildcard suggestion: [b']David Dunn[/b]. Thoughts?

As a wildcard I would like to suggest Tom Huddlestone. Much much better than that outrageously overrated Jenas. His passing I observed is amazing. Very Carrick-esqe I must and technically very good as well.

As far as strikers go here's my view

Heskey

Rooney

Defoe or bent

Crouch or Cole

Agbonlahor or Walcott

My choices atm would be

Defoe

Crouch

Gabby

Gabby can also play on the flanks if required like Walcott and looks to be in decent form as well.

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Re: England world cup squad?

Robinson. He honestly wouldn't even be my 3rd keeper. Blackburn fans themselves are far from impressed with him. His criticism being he gets beaten to easily from far out. And he isn't anywhere near as commanding as I would like not any of the other candidates are but they are all more consistent. My 3 would be Green' date=' Kirkland and James in order.[/quote']

Obviously, you have an opinion but that bolded bit is complete and utter rubbish. One of my best mates is a Blackburn fan and he loves Robinson and it seems the general consensus of most Rovers fans. What prompts you to say that.

Either way, on current form, he's the best 'keeper we've got. I mean, he saved two penalties last night has kept clean sheets lately and even when Blackburn have been beaten (e.g. vs Chelsea), Robinson has still played well.

I'd have him over Kirkland or James any day.

As a wildcard I would like to suggest Tom Huddlestone. Much much better than that outrageously overrated Jenas. His passing I observed is amazing. Very Carrick-esqe I must and technically very good as well.

I like Huddlestone too and I think he has a future in England's midfield but I don't know if he's ready just yet. He's still a bit raw but the experience might do him good. You're right; how Jenas ever gets a look in is ridiculous.

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Re: England world cup squad?

Obviously' date=' you have an opinion but that bolded bit is complete and utter rubbish. One of my best mates is a Blackburn fan and he loves Robinson and it seems the general consensus of most Rovers fans. What prompts you to say that.

Either way, on current form, he's the best 'keeper we've got. I mean, he saved two penalties last night has kept clean sheets lately and even when Blackburn have been beaten (e.g. vs Chelsea), Robinson has still played well.

I'd have him over Kirkland or James any day.

[/quote']

Considering I was born in Lancashire and have a fair few mates who are Ewood park regulars who don't really rate Robinson that highly to term by post as 'complete and utter rubbish' is rather pathetic and downright insolent. And am not too sure but it was the Chelsea game where he could have done better with a couple of goals. And I've maintained all along if Kirkland didn't have all the injury problems he would be the first choice for us easily by now.

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Re: England world cup squad?

Considering I was born in Lancashire and have a fair few mates who are Ewood park regulars who don't really rate Robinson that highly to term by post as 'complete and utter rubbish' is rather pathetic and downright insolent. And am not too sure but it was the Chelsea game where he could have done better with a couple of goals. And I've maintained all along if Kirkland didn't have all the injury problems he would be the first choice for us easily by now.

Alright then, if I'm not allowed to say that your comment was "complete and utter rubbish", then what makes you think you can say my comment is "rather pathetic and downright insolent"? Are you telling me that the majority of Blackburn fans don't rate Robinson just because a few of your mates think that? In the same way, does it mean that most Blackbrun fans really like Robinson because I have a friend that does? No, it doesn't, in both cases. There's no way you can prove your initial statement either way unless you've conducted some sort of a poll in your spare time.

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Re: England world cup squad?

Alright then' date=' if I'm not allowed to say that your comment was "complete and utter rubbish", then what makes you think you can say my comment is "rather pathetic and downright insolent"? [b']Are you telling me that the majority of Blackburn fans don't rate Robinson just because a few of your mates think that[/b]? In the same way, does it mean that most Blackbrun fans really like Robinson because I have a friend that does? No, it doesn't, in both cases. There's no way you can prove your initial statement either way unless you've conducted some sort of a poll in your spare time.

Talk about contradiction:rolleyes: Your described my post as "complete and utter rubbish" because your best mate loves Robinson

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Re: England world cup squad?

Talk about contradiction:rolleyes: Your described my post as "complete and utter rubbish" because your best mate loves Robinson

Did you even read my post? If it wasn't obvious enough, I tried to acknowledge the fact that I couldn't judge the wide opinion on one person, which is comparabale to your judgement on a few people's opinion. I accept that I wasn't totally accurate to say what I initially did but it's what I think and it's no reason for you to come back with snide remarks before you even fully read what I'm saying.

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Re: England world cup squad?

Either way' date=' on current form, he's the best 'keeper we've got. I mean, he saved two penalties last night [/quote']

Robinsons fault that it went down to penalties in the first place with a howler. Saving in the lottery that is a penalty shoot out regardless of englands past failings isnt enough to give him a world cup place.

Green

James

are certainties if fit the other slot is up for grabs with no one keeper standing out at the moment there all as bad as each other for silly mistakes

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Re: England world cup squad?

My 23 would be:

GK: Robert Green

GK: Paul Robinson

GK: Joe Hart

D: John Terry

D: Rio Ferdinand

D: Ashley Cole

D: Glen Johnson

D: Wayne Bridge

D: Matthew Upson

D: Micah Richards

D: Joleon Lescott

M: Steven Gerrard

M: Frank Lampard

M: Gareth Barry

M: Michael Carrick

M: Aaron Lennon

M: Joe Cole

M: Shaun Wright Phillips

M: Stewart Downing

F: Wayne Rooney

F: Jermain Defoe

F: Michael Owen

F: Darren Bent

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Re: England world cup squad?

Robinsons fault that it went down to penalties in the first place with a howler. Saving in the lottery that is a penalty shoot out regardless of englands past failings isnt enough to give him a world cup place.

Green

James

are certainties if fit the other slot is up for grabs with no one keeper standing out at the moment there all as bad as each other for silly mistakes

I haven't seen the goals' date=' so I didn't know that. Either way, I'd certainly have Robinson as one of my three, even if he isn't going to play. Surely his experience will count for something? Kirkland, Foster or Hart don't have anywhere near the same level of experience that Robinson does.

Let's be honest, picking a keeper out of our lot is like choosing which pyromaniac you want to look after your house while you're away. They've all got the best intentions but you know it's going to end badly.

To be honest, this is a frank assessment on our goalkeeping situation. We could all argue about who we would take or who is our favourite but at the end of the day, we're trying to choose the best out of a very bad bunch indeed.

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Re: England world cup squad?

I haven't seen the goals' date=' so I didn't know that. Either way, I'd certainly have Robinson as one of my three, even if he isn't going to play. Surely his experience will count for something? Kirkland, Foster or Hart don't have anywhere near the same level of experience that Robinson does.

To be honest, this is a frank assessment on our goalkeeping situation. We could all argue about who we would take or who is our favourite but at the end of the day, we're trying to choose the best out of a very bad bunch indeed.[/quote']

you should take a look at it, it's pretty horrendous. Nothing spectacular, just incompetent.

i agree that experience is really important for goalies. I also find it a little strange that capello has in recent times opted for foster ahead of robinson as england's 3rd option. was robinson injuried or somthing? otherwise i find it strange that capello continuously call up a guy who averages 1 bad error a game at club level, who isnt even playing regularly anymore...

but maybe he sees something we dont. i mean personally i think foster is the best reaction goalkeeper in the country. but his decison making and kicking is so poor it's unbelievable.

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Re: England world cup squad?

Considering I was born in Lancashire and have a fair few mates who are Ewood park regulars who don't really rate Robinson that highly to term by post as 'complete and utter rubbish' is rather pathetic and downright insolent. And am not too sure but it was the Chelsea game where he could have done better with a couple of goals. And I've maintained all along if Kirkland didn't have all the injury problems he would be the first choice for us easily by now.

i think the main problem england face is the lack of a quality gk, foster is basically 3rd choice keeper at the moment, james injury problems, ditto kirkland, although when fit prob best imo, robinson doesnt and never will instill confidence in his defence, maybe the answer is robert green?:)

Do we even need 3 keepers? i know its the done thing, but i would take owen, instead of a third keeper, id rather have owen on the bench to come on,and try to change the game in the inevitable quater final loss than robinson

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