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Brazil vs England


Hunty
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Re: Brazil vs England

Generally thats a good team but in terms of South Africa I'm not sure it suits Capello's system' date=' and I'd be amazed if we have any major chance up between now and then. After all theres only one more competitive meet up before he picks the 23, unless I'm mistaken. Gerrard's nailed on to play floating around on the left and interchanging with Rooney, they both seemed to enjoy the relative freedom it gave them in the qualifying games and it makes room for Lampard in the centre. Might need a re-think if Cole gets injured between now and June because Bridge and co aren't good enough to fill his shoes going forward without being exposed defensively.

Realisitcally I think you're looking at something like -

James

Johnson

Cole

Terry

Ferdinand

Lennon

Gerrard

Barry

Lampard

Rooney

Heskey

I'd guess barring injuries or a chronic lack of form 8 of those are nailed on. Whoever gets the nod in nets depends largely on James' form for the rest of the season I'd imagine, as long as he doesn't throw many in he'll probably be #1.

Lennon has the shirt at the moment but again it's largely going to go on form I'd guess, it's pretty interchanganable, it's not as integral to the system as other areas are. Joe Cole could stake a claim but it might be horses for courses, if we can expose a defence with a lack of pace then I'd expect Lennon/SWP/Walcott to start, if it needs more imagination and guile then Cole could get the nod. A lack of aerial domination and Beckham's more reliable delivery becomes important.

Heskey's positions up for grabs to an extent as well. You're probably looking at him, Crouch or Cole due to what Capello expects his front man to do. I don't think Crouch does as much closing down and harrying as Cole and Heskey, and his ball retention when receiving the ball above waist height is pretty poor. Probably going to rest on whether Heskey gets enough games for Villa, if he doesn't and Carlton Cole's in form then he could get the nod.[/quote']

Realistically I agree, most of the changes I made were because the question I asked was about personal opinion.

Lennon, Walcott and Cole should all be fighting for that position if fit, and a lot will depend on form. At least it gives us a way of changing our approach, as in adding more pace.

Heskey and Crouch as as poor as eachother but I realise that Capello likes to play with a big man up top. Cole has looked good recently, but the question is whether he will be on the same sort of form come the WC.

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Re: Brazil vs England

He is more sound defensively than Glen Johnson. Fair enough he was not good tonight but he has been out injured for a while. When he is properly match fit I think he is our best option.

Interesting, although Johnson isn't the best defensively I don't think Brown is much better. And imo opinion what Johnson adds to the attack compared to Brown is much more than how much better Brown is defensively, if that makes sense! Anyway thats all it is, opinion.

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Re: Brazil vs England

England once again proved that they can't do well against the best in the world' date='

It's alright beating teams like Belarus, and in all fairness you destroyed Croatia home and away and Ukraine didn't trouble you

But there's no way England will win the world cup, if you're going to win the world cup then your going to need to beat the likes of Brazil and Spain, losing to both quite recently and quite comfortably.[/quote']

Like RoKo7 said, you can't draw any conclusions from today's game due to the teams that were on display. Englands' side had barely anybody who would realistically be challenging for a first XI spot in South Africa, bar Barry, Rooney and maybe Milner, while Brazil weren't at full strength either.

Either way, your comment is non-sensical. The people who actually claim that England are going to win the World Cup are part of a minute minority. How many people on the forum, for example, have you heard say that England shall win the World Cup? You're right, England won't win it because we not good enough against the elite sides. But the fact that you tell us this as if we don't know that is rather immature.

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Re: Brazil vs England

Think it was a decent result for the squad the English had. Some player's should play for England again imo. (Foster' date=' Bent, Wright-Phillips.) With a full squad strength squad England would've done much better and even could've won.[/quote']

Bent and SWP were very lacklustre tonight. The only players who were any impressive for us were Foster, Barry and Rooney. Milner wasn't too bad, but wasn't very effective.

At the end of the day, the only players in that team that will probably be starting in June are Rooney and Barry. James is the rightful keeper, our back four is now decided (if it wasn't) after Upson and Brown's shocking display, Gerrard, Lampard and probably Barry will be joined by one of Lennon, Walcott or Cole whilst our second striker is yet to be decided.

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Re: Brazil vs England

As you say the back-up to him is awful. Brown is shocking' date=' [b']as is Neville[/b].

Really?

Last 4 games I've seen of him, he's been quite good actually. I think now he's got rid of the injuries, as long as he stays fit he should be the back-up to Johnson. Obviously he won't be able to play every game at a World Cup because of his age, but as long he stays clear of injury until then, he should be our 2nd choice.

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Re: Brazil vs England

I think Johnson, then Richards for RB.. I think their clubs would get their acts together, this is just a bad spell for them. Wes Brown wasn't playing, and Ferguson seems to like O'Shea.

And for CM, I think wildcard could be Cattermole. He proved his importance with his absence, Sunderland having a torrid time without him. He's the kind of player to break down attacks and bring the ball forward, something like Essien. Would be a sound backup for Barry, only that he's inexperienced at international stage.

IMO, strikers should be Rooney (all-round), Defoe (fast), Heskey (strong), Owen (supersub!). If injuries hit, Gerrard or Walcott should be able to play second striker?

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Re: Brazil vs England

I still think the way we play forces the hand to an extent with the strikers, in that you pretty much have to take a Crouch or a Cole as backup to Heskey. If he picked up an injury in the group games and you only had Owen and Defoe to come in then you're onto plan B far earlier than you'd like to be.

Cattermole's a decent shout, I'd question whether he uses the ball efficiently enough to fill the Barry role at this level though. You need somebody who's going to bang the ball out to the full backs pretty sharply and accurately, and spot clever little balls into Rooney and co, it's asking a lot to put all that on Lampard and making him an all-out playmaker, he needs some help in that respect.. He's an option as a Hargreaves-esque sub under Ericsson to close games out, but thats a very specialist role when you've only got 20 outfield players to take. You tend to get a few English players who have stand-out seasons in a World Cup year and step their game up though, he could be one.

Richards in a World Cup on current form scares me, he needs to find some form and find it quickly.

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Re: Brazil vs England

England have some great players, they need to have more confidence in themselves and pass it round a bit more in the opponents half to create chances. All the long balls they do when they play elite teams is generally a safer way to play but its a waste of talent.

Rooney is the perfect player to be our Kaka on the front of a diamond with Gerrard on the left and Lampard on the right and Barry as a holding midfielder.

I would have them pretty deep and Gerrard and Lampard usually slightly inside about 10 yards off the touchline. Then they move forward as a team with the sort of pass and move play they are capable of. Unless there is space at the back then they play through balls for some of our pacey strikers like Defoe Bent/Abonlahor.

With Ashley Cole and Johnson giving some width on the overlap.

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Re: Brazil vs England

Green( no1)

James

Foster

Johnson

Neville

RB is really a problem. Richards is a certain no and Johnson still can't defend. Can't think of a better backup than Neville either.

Ashley Cole

Bridge

Ferdinand

Terry

Lescott

Upson

Beckham

Philips

Lennon

Cole

Barry

Lampard

Gerrard

Carrick

Rooney

Owen

Heskey

Defoe

Yeah some shockers there. But I don't rate Walcott at all and Milner's a so-so. Up front was a toss up b/w Crouch and owen and I chose Owen mainly as he brings something different.

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Re: Brazil vs England

I think Johnson' date=' then Richards for RB.. I think their clubs would get their acts together, this is just a bad spell for them. Wes Brown wasn't playing, and Ferguson seems to like O'Shea.

And for CM, I think wildcard could be Cattermole. He proved his importance with his absence, Sunderland having a torrid time without him. He's the kind of player to break down attacks and bring the ball forward, something like Essien. Would be a sound backup for Barry, only that he's inexperienced at international stage.

IMO, strikers should be Rooney (all-round), Defoe (fast), Heskey (strong), Owen (supersub!). If injuries hit, Gerrard or Walcott should be able to play second striker?[/quote']

Richards is nowhere near even Brown's standard atm. As much as I like the fella, unless he can get his act together before July, then it would have to be either Brown or Neville to back up Johnson.

As for CM, Cattermole shouldn't even be considered at this time. Maybe in friendlies post-WC, but we don't want inexperienced and untested (at this level) players playing in the WC. And he doesn't come close to the level of Carrick or Hargreaves at this time, who should be fighting each other for a place to rival Barry for a starting spot.

I still think the way we play forces the hand to an extent with the strikers' date=' in that you pretty much have to take a Crouch or a Cole as backup to Heskey. If he picked up an injury in the group games and you only had Owen and Defoe to come in then you're onto plan B far earlier than you'd like to be.

Cattermole's a decent shout, I'd question whether he uses the ball efficiently enough to fill the Barry role at this level though. You need somebody who's going to bang the ball out to the full backs pretty sharply and accurately, and spot clever little balls into Rooney and co, it's asking a lot to put all that on Lampard and making him an all-out playmaker, he needs some help in that respect.. He's an option as a Hargreaves-esque sub under Ericsson to close games out, but thats a very specialist role when you've only got 20 outfield players to take. You tend to get a few English players who have stand-out seasons in a World Cup year and step their game up though, he could be one.

Richards in a World Cup on current form scares me, he needs to find some form and find it quickly.[/quote']

If Heskey starts, we have a slim chance of getting out of the groups. He just not good enough. Not good enough for Villa, not good enough for England. He may be good at bringing players into the game, but he can't score to save his life. You know who can bring other players into the game, AND score goals? Mr Lankerson (aka Crouch). Much better than Heskey, IMHO. Along with Rooney, Defoe should definitely be there, and one of Owen, Bent or even Agbonlahor.

Green( no1)

James

Foster

Johnson

Neville

RB is really a problem. Richards is a certain no and Johnson still can't defend. Can't think of a better backup than Neville either.

Ashley Cole

Bridge

Ferdinand

Terry

Lescott

Upson

Beckham

Philips

Lennon

Cole

Barry

Lampard

Gerrard

Carrick

Rooney

Owen

Heskey

Defoe

Yeah some shockers there. But I don't rate Walcott at all and Milner's a so-so. Up front was a toss up b/w Crouch and owen and I chose Owen mainly as he brings something different.

I'm with you on the defenders, although in goal it'd be a shake-up of Foster and Robinson for the last keeper spot. Foster is a bit too inconsistent for my liking, but if he can cut out on some of the basic mistakes then I'd definitely have him.

As for wingers, I definitely wouldn't have SWP, unless we have injures. I'm with you on Milner, he's not as good as some of the other options at this moment. I'd have Beckham and Cole (definitely), and two of Lennon, Walcott and Young.

I'm with you on central midfielders, although I'd chuck Hargreaves into the mix. Two of Barry, Carrick and Hargreaves.

Up top, swap Heskey with Crouch and then chuck in Bent and Agbonlahor (who's looking quite decent atm) to rival Owen for the final spot.

There is still seven months before the WC yet though, so still plenty of time for fringe players to prove themselves, players out of form to recover, and injured players to get fit again. You also cannot rule out injuries and loss of form, so who knows.

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Re: Brazil vs England

I'm with you on the defenders' date=' although in goal it'd be a shake-up of Foster and Robinson for the last keeper spot. Foster is a bit too inconsistent for my liking, but if he can cut out on some of the basic mistakes then I'd definitely have him.

As for wingers, I definitely wouldn't have SWP, unless we have injures. I'm with you on Milner, he's not as good as some of the other options at this moment. I'd have Beckham and Cole (definitely), and two of Lennon, Walcott and Young.

I'm with you on central midfielders, although I'd chuck Hargreaves into the mix. Two of Barry, Carrick and Hargreaves.

Up top, swap Heskey with Crouch and then chuck in Bent and Agbonlahor (who's looking quite decent atm) to rival Owen for the final spot.

There is still seven months before the WC yet though, so still plenty of time for fringe players to prove themselves, players out of form to recover, and injured players to get fit again. You also cannot rule out injuries and loss of form, so who knows.[/quote']

Wingers - I'd say Beckham and Cole are certain. The other 2 spot for me would be b/w Walcott,Lennon,Milner,Young and Wright Philips. Now IMO Lennon is in the form of his life and playing really well so he'd be my choice. And off the rest Milner and Wright Philips are in good form. Young is in terrible form. Walcott really overrated. But as you say still plenty of time left.

Midfielders - I am not at ALL sure of Hargo. Unless he comes back fast and has about 3 months of game time I wouldn't take him. Don't want to end up with a injured player and leave us with only 3 options.

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Re: Brazil vs England

If Heskey starts' date=' we have a slim chance of getting out of the groups. He just not good enough. Not good enough for Villa, not good enough for England. He may be good at bringing players into the game, but he can't score to save his life. You know who can bring other players into the game, AND score goals? Mr Lankerson (aka Crouch). Much better than Heskey, IMHO. Along with Rooney, Defoe should definitely be there, and one of Owen, Bent or even Agbonlahor.[/quote']

Behave. You might not like him but at least be objective about it. When we were in a torrid state under McLaren Heskey came in and his inclusion bought the best out of Rooney, as it continues to do. Unfortunately he got injured and we were derailed again but he's been a fixture in a side thats been fantastic in qualifying, theres no evidence at all to suggest we'd struggle at the World Cup with Heskey up top.

Crouch is different, he doesn't offer Heskey's work rate out of possession, which is crucial in providing a platform for someone like Defoe when he comes on after the hour. He's better on the deck but he won't retain anywhere near as much ball played above waist height. He offers absolutely no threat in behind either, which despite their size Heskey or Cole do. He has many plus points as well obviously, but the main purpose Heskey serves in the system is to get Rooney, and to a lesser extent Gerrard playing. The evidence up to this point suggests he's fulfilled the brief to a tee.

I absolutely despise the arguement that so many people peddle that goes 'if we get one chance in a World Cup final who would you want it to fall to, Heskey or Owen/Crouch etc.' It's all well and good highlighting that one isolated incident but what about the other 92 minutes. How many opportunities does Heskey create for others via his tireless work ethic, sheer physicality and selfless play? He's an easy target but he brings a lot to the table, especially in Capello's system, which like it or not, has done the business up till now and is unlikely to change by the time SA rolls round.

Edit: One more thought, should we not have learnt from years of unsuccessfully trying to shoehorn Gerrard and Lampard into a midfield duo that it's not necessarily the best two players that form the best partnership, but the two players who compliment each other best.

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Re: Brazil vs England

Wingers - I'd say Beckham and Cole are certain. The other 2 spot for me would be b/w Walcott' date='Lennon,Milner,Young and Wright Philips. Now IMO Lennon is in the form of his life and playing really well so he'd be my choice. And off the rest Milner and Wright Philips are in good form. Young is in terrible form. Walcott really overrated. But as you say still plenty of time left.

Midfielders - I am not at ALL sure of Hargo. Unless he comes back fast and has about 3 months of game time I wouldn't take him. Don't want to end up with a injured player and leave us with only 3 options.[/quote']

The big advantage Walcott gives you is versatility. If he's in the squad he effectively gives you a 5th striker, and if we pick up an injury or two up top Capello will get lynched for only taking four. Not to mention the fact that he's proved, moreso than any of the other candidates on the right that he can perform in a team moulded in Capello's style with that performance out in Croatia.

I still think theres room for Walcott, one of Lennon/SWP and Beckham in the squad. You'd need to sacrifice a central midfielder but theres not a massive amount of depth there anyway. You aren't losing much by ditching Jenas when you have Carrick or Beckham who could fill in the central role, or even shifting Gerrard inside (he's nailed on at left midfield) and bringing Cole in.

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Re: Brazil vs England

The big advantage Walcott gives you is versatility. If he's in the squad he effectively gives you a 5th striker' date=' and if we pick up an injury or two up top Capello will get lynched for only taking four. Not to mention the fact that he's proved, moreso than any of the other candidates on the right that he can perform in a team moulded in Capello's style with that performance out in Croatia.

I still think theres room for Walcott, one of Lennon/SWP and Beckham in the squad. You'd need to sacrifice a central midfielder but theres not a massive amount of depth there anyway. You aren't losing much by ditching Jenas when you have Carrick or Beckham who could fill in the central role, or even shifting Gerrard inside (he's nailed on at left midfield) and bringing Cole in.[/quote']

Good point about Walcott playing as a 5th striker as well. We don't want to end up like 2006 where Rooney and owen were unfit, Walcott hadn't even a played a EPL game leaving us with only Crouch up front.

However saying that I believe Lennon has done more than enough to be picked for the WC. Has been in fantastic form and IMO more effective than Walcott when he plays wide.

And tbh I'd much rather have Huddlestone or even Cattermole than Jenas. But I am a little confused here. Picking 3 wingers and 4 CM's makes it 22 players? So where do you suggest depth being added?

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Re: Brazil vs England

Good point about Walcott playing as a 5th striker as well. We don't want to end up like 2006 where Rooney and owen were unfit' date=' Walcott hadn't even a played a EPL game leaving us with only Crouch up front.

However saying that I believe Lennon has done more than enough to be picked for the WC. Has been in fantastic form and IMO more effective than Walcott when he plays wide.

And tbh I'd much rather have Huddlestone or even Cattermole than Jenas. But I am a little confused here. Picking 3 wingers and 4 CM's makes it 22 players? So where do you suggest depth being added?[/quote']

I agree, I think Lennon's done enough to make the plane barring injury or a chronic lack of form. I really think you could pick any one from about 8 or 9 central midfielders to fulfill that sort of role. Once you get past the really top tier players it's much of a muchness between the likes of Jenas or Huddlestone.

As for depth, I think my 23 was something like -

3 keepers, 8 defenders, 4 orthadox strikers and then-

Lennon/Walcott

Gerrard/Cole

Barry/Carrick

Lampard/Beckham

The suggestion being that everyone has an effective replacement bar arguably Lampard, but Carrick could in for him, or Gerrard be shifted inside from the left if needs be. Obviously the counter arguement would be that Walcott or Beckham should sacrificed for a more conventional deputy for Lampard. I just think realisitically a Jenas/Huddlestone or Cattermole isn't going to really be able to fill Lampards boots with anything like the effectiveness he offers, so you might as well give yourself the luxury of an extra striker and Beckham's quality, even if it comes with the premium of probably not being able to play 90 minutes.

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