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Re: Player Concerns

i too agree with CCX dude.... player concern depends on the quality of the players. a lot of the people who seem to be against the change are the people who have been playing this game for a long time. like brandonburrows, they are finding it difficult to adapt to the new game world environment, and are complaining here instead of raising their games and developing strategies to combat the issue.............dudes get over it - change has come.......

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Re: Player Concerns

Yeah but SM says nothing about formation having anything to do with player concerns. Think about it this way. In real life, if a player isn't playing because the formation doesn't need him, would that stop him from wanting a transfer? No, he would more likely want a transfer. I am pretty sure that formation has no effect on a player wanting to play more or less games.

Logically it has to be positions that dictate concerns, I have 2 reasons to believe so, firstly...

In my Arsenal team, which is an original Arsenal team, the other day Eboue got a concern over "lack of games" , now if it were as you say, the stars expect to play 70% and every one below expects less, 50% say, Eboue wouldn't have got this concern, but if it as I think it is and is based on positions (either collective or individual) this would make more sense.

Based on total teams stars Eboue has Almunia, Sagna, Clichy, Gallas, Vermaelen, Fabregas, Arshavin, Nasri, Rosicky and Van Persie all ahead of him, and he is equal with Walcott, Song, Denilson and Eduardo, thus he wouldn't expect many matches at all.

But if it goes by positions, which in this case would make sense, since now if based on the collective MID he only has Fabregas, Arshavin, Nasri and Rosicky ahead of him and he is the highest rated player in his position, that is RM, thus he is concerned because he only got about 60% of the seasons matches.

Secondly...

The concerns system is detailed enough to recognise individual positions, as it also gives out a "lack of oppurtunity" concern, which is based purely on the position, the number of players in that postion, the player's ages, and how likely the (concerned) player is going to make it into the first team. From this we can easily conclude that the concerns system is sophisticated enough to give out concerns based on a player's position (collective or individual) and as such should/would be the logical choice.

Yeah but in the barca team, there were stars in every position. In this random team, the next step down from the star was the 89 rated players. Which was everyone. Thats why it is better to have some players high and some players low, because if you have all 89 rated players, they all expect to play the same amount of games. Like i said before, it is all comparative. In the barca team, a 92 rated player is maybe 7th or 8th highest. But in this random team, the second highest is the 89 rated players. Therefore they are not necessarily 'stars', but they expect only a few games below the stars. This means that even though they aren't stars, they might as well be because they expect to play a large proportion of games.

Refer to the stuff posted above, easily applies in this case.

I don't think the game should differentiate a lot between 98 and 94 rated players. Imagine a real-life situation where Robinho can't get on the field because he has Ribery, Ronaldo and Messi ahead of him. Robinho's going to want a lot of games given his stature (rating) and if he isn't getting them he's going to want to move.

I agree 110% with this statement

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Re: Player Concerns

I think Aitken's got the right idea. Positions have to affect the concerns otherwise it doesn't mimic real-life at all and, to a degree, player hoarding can still continue.

I don't see your point on formations affecting concerns Prudster :confused:. In my teams I have a first eleven, 2nd eleven then youth and risers on top of that all based around a basic formation decided by the primary positions of my quality players. Unless a player is a youth or riser, I don't see the need to buy someone who won't fit into my system of play. Of course you need different options for different scenarios but I feel these are easily covered by secondary positions of the first 22. That said, I'm not a gold member and realise the situation could be a whole lot different in gold championships. How do you manage your squads and am I just being naive?

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Re: Player Concerns

Logically it has to be positions that dictate concerns' date=' I have 2 reasons to believe so, firstly...

In my Arsenal team, which is an original Arsenal team, the other day Eboue got a concern over "lack of games" , now if it were as you say, the stars expect to play 70% and every one below expects less, 50% say, Eboue wouldn't have got this concern, but if it as I think it is and is based on positions (either collective or individual) this would make more sense.

Based on total teams stars Eboue has Almunia, Sagna, Clichy, Gallas, Vermaelen, Fabregas, Arshavin, Nasri, Rosicky and Van Persie all ahead of him, and he is equal with Walcott, Song, Denilson and Eduardo, thus he wouldn't expect many matches at all.

But if it goes by positions, which in this case would make sense, since now if based on the collective MID he only has Fabregas, Arshavin, Nasri and Rosicky ahead of him and he is the highest rated player in his position, that is RM, thus he is concerned because he only got about 60% of the seasons matches.[/quote']

Yeah but i don't think that expected games decreases that much if you have a star. E.g. jsut because ribery and ronaldo are ahead of him, doesn't mean robben only expects to play 50% or less. It means he doesn't expect to play as much as them. Now obviously i don't know the exact numbers, but keeping these three is possible, even though if you add the three percentages that they expect to play, it would be over 100%. You could always jsut elt one get a concern, and then play him until another gets a concern, and keep swapping.

Secondly...

The concerns system is detailed enough to recognise individual positions' date=' as it also gives out a "lack of oppurtunity" concern, which is based purely on the position, the number of players in that postion, the player's ages, and how likely the (concerned) player is going to make it into the first team. From this we can easily conclude that the concerns system is sophisticated enough to give out concerns based on a player's position (collective or individual) and as such should/would be the logical choice.

Refer to the stuff posted above, easily applies in this case.

I agree 110% with this statement[/quote']

Yeah but lack of opportunity concerns are based only off ratings and age, in comparison. It doesn't take into account how likely they are going to make it to the first team. In this game, it is fine to buy 20 CB's and then sell them later, once they have risen. But player concerns can't tell if you are going to buy or sell more players can it? I still reckon that player concerns is based off playing group (mid, fwd, def) as i will explain under stuarts comment.

I think Aitken's got the right idea. Positions have to affect the concerns otherwise it doesn't mimic real-life at all and' date=' to a degree, player hoarding can still continue.

I don't see your point on formations affecting concerns Prudster :confused:. In my teams I have a first eleven, 2nd eleven then youth and risers on top of that all based around a basic formation decided by the primary positions of my quality players. Unless a player is a youth or riser, I don't see the need to buy someone who won't fit into my system of play. Of course you need different options for different scenarios but I feel these are easily covered by secondary positions of the first 22. That said, I'm not a gold member and realise the situation could be a whole lot different in gold championships. How do you manage your squads and am I just being naive?[/quote']

Ok well take into consideration this. You are playing a 5-3-2 defensive. So there is no need for wingers. So why buy wingers? You don't. Now lets just say you bought Aaron Lennon, thinking he was going to rise. A pure winger. He is the 'star' in his position is he not? Does that mean he expects to play 75% of games? You didn't buy him for your first team, so why would he expect to play? This is why i don't think that it is based on player position, instead based on the broad position of midfielder, forward, defender, keeper.

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Re: Player Concerns

Ok well take into consideration this. You are playing a 5-3-2 defensive. So there is no need for wingers. So why buy wingers? You don't. Now lets just say you bought Aaron Lennon' date=' thinking he was going to rise. A pure winger. He is the 'star' in his position is he not? Does that mean he expects to play 75% of games? You didn't buy him for your first team, so why would he expect to play? This is why i don't think that it is based on player position, instead based on the broad position of midfielder, forward, defender, keeper.[/quote']

If you are purely buying a player to take advantage of a rise I don't see why you need to be bothered by concerns. At the current rate, where nobody has a level 2 concern yet, you can buy a player, let him rise and sell him all before major concerns kick in. If in that period he becomes a good enough player to start in your first team, I personally would change my formation to fit him in.

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Re: Player Concerns

If you are purely buying a player to take advantage of a rise I don't see why you need to be bothered by concerns. At the current rate' date=' where nobody has a level 2 concern yet, you can buy a player, let him rise and sell him all before major concerns kick in. If in that period he becomes a good enough player to start in your first team, I personally would change my formation to fit him in.[/quote']

Ok well lets just say he is a wing/am. Do concerns take into account both wing and am? If so, what if he is the top winger, but 4th or 5th am. This is why i think its by area, not individual position. Also, these days with Sm taking so long with each rating change, if you buy a far off riser, so that another team doesn't you may be in trouble.

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Re: Player Concerns

Ok well take into consideration this. You are playing a 5-3-2 defensive. So there is no need for wingers. So why buy wingers? You don't. Now lets just say you bought Aaron Lennon' date=' thinking he was going to rise. A pure winger. [b']He is the 'star' in his position is he not? Does that mean he expects to play 75% of games? [/b]You didn't buy him for your first team, so why would he expect to play? This is why i don't think that it is based on player position, instead based on the broad position of midfielder, forward, defender, keeper.
Ok well lets just say he is a wing/am. Do concerns take into account both wing and am? If so' date=' what if he is the top winger, but 4th or 5th am. This is why i think its by area, not individual position. Also, these days with Sm taking so long with each rating change, [b']if you buy a far off riser, so that another team doesn't you may be in trouble[/b].

Surely these two illustrated examples are reasons why player concerns became necessary. Why would you buy a player (particularly a star player) when you have no intention of playing him. He doesnt fit your formation and will likely never get a game. If he is just to be used a bargaining tool, then you will have plenty of time to get rid as Stuart says. If that is not the reason, well then I'm afraid to say you are hording players.

Similarly, if you are buying players simply so that other teams don't, you are again preventing sides who may actually play the player from getting there hands on them. Again, even if it is a far off riser, he will rise prior to getting a level 5 concern.

Whilst your intentions may be different, what you've shown in these examples is what other managers within the gameword may be thinking. "He's not even going to play the player and bought him just to stop me from doing it" or "He doesn't need that player but still bought him. He would have been a first teamer for me and will have played an important role at my club". And it's precisely why player concerns is a must to sustain interest in many gameworlds

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Re: Player Concerns

Does performance have any impact at all?

In one of my setups Ljajic developed a concern over not playing enough and the next game both of my first choice wingers got injured/suspended which meant I was forced to play him and hes been pap. Played 3 games now and I have lost 2 of them and drawn 1. Before that I was unbeaten for 5.

So if I drop him for 'poor' performances will he be unhappy?

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Re: Player Concerns

So if I drop him for 'poor' performances will he be unhappy?

Yes he will. Regardless if he performs badly he expects to play?

When Berbatov plays badly for United, do you think he would still expect to play the next game?

I sold Ljajic a long time ago. If he was any good SAF would have accepted him in January.

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Re: Player Concerns

2 February

One or more of your players have concerns. Please see the Reports tab in your squad page.

Enrique VERA is very concerned regarding his lack of games, if this issue is not addressed the player will become increasingly unhappy and may leave the club.

Youssouf HADJI has a major concern regarding his lack of games, if this issue is not addressed immediately the player will take steps to leave the club.

Wayne BRIDGE is very concerned regarding his lack of games, if this issue is not addressed the player will become increasingly unhappy and may leave the club.

Fair enough... hadn't played them for ages, no complains about that..

5 February

Cruzeiro win 3 - 1 against Celtic.

One or more of your players have concerns. Please see the Reports tab in your squad page.

Enrique VERA has a major concern regarding his lack of games, if this issue is not addressed immediately the player will take steps to leave the club.

Youssouf HADJI has demanded a transfer move away from your club due to the lack of games he has played. This issue has built up over a long period of time. Your Chairman has placed Youssouf HADJI on the transfer list and will start accepting offers for the player.

Wayne BRIDGE has a major concern regarding his lack of games, if this issue is not addressed immediately the player will take steps to leave the club.

The bottom messages came in first, therefore their concern level went up within 3 days. Before a game was played. In Hadji's case, what if I wanted to start playing him so his concerns went down? Didn't even have a chance to do it :rolleyes:

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Re: Player Concerns

2 February

One or more of your players have concerns. Please see the Reports tab in your squad page.

Enrique VERA is very concerned regarding his lack of games' date=' if this issue is not addressed the player will become increasingly unhappy and may leave the club.

Youssouf HADJI has a major concern regarding his lack of games, if this issue is not addressed immediately the player will take steps to leave the club.

Wayne BRIDGE is very concerned regarding his lack of games, if this issue is not addressed the player will become increasingly unhappy and may leave the club.

Fair enough... hadn't played them for ages, no complains about that..

[b']5 February[/b]

Cruzeiro win 3 - 1 against Celtic.

One or more of your players have concerns. Please see the Reports tab in your squad page.

Enrique VERA has a major concern regarding his lack of games, if this issue is not addressed immediately the player will take steps to leave the club.

Youssouf HADJI has demanded a transfer move away from your club due to the lack of games he has played. This issue has built up over a long period of time. Your Chairman has placed Youssouf HADJI on the transfer list and will start accepting offers for the player.

Wayne BRIDGE has a major concern regarding his lack of games, if this issue is not addressed immediately the player will take steps to leave the club.

The bottom messages came in first, therefore their concern level went up within 3 days. Before a game was played. In Hadji's case, what if I wanted to start playing him so his concerns went down? Didn't even have a chance to do it :rolleyes:

I'd send in a ticket as that has to be a bug. The concerns feature only came in a short while ago so i'm sure you shouldn't have players demanding transfers already.

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Re: Player Concerns

I'd send in a ticket as that has to be a bug. The concerns feature only came in a short while ago so i'm sure you shouldn't have players demanding transfers already.

It's in the test setup so it's a lot further on and many players have demanded transfers. :)

Perhaps you should have acted quicker when they were minor concerns?

You cant really have any complaints when someone moves from a minor concern to a major concern.

In the case of Wayne Bridge' date=' if you have a squad good enough to hardly ever play an 89 rated LB, you deserve to lose him.[/quote']

Not bothered at all as it's only the test setup and so don't do tactics/change players as much. Bridge rarely plays as I have a 90 LB and seeing as I don't do tactics it's not surprising and like I said in the post, I have no problems with it and expected it.

It just doesn't seem right that somebody can get a concern on one day, then move to a higher concern 3 days later without a game being played, making it impossible to then keep the player.

In fact, now I've checked it, Hadji has actually made 24 sub appearances this season, so how he's at Level 5 I have no idea :confused:

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Re: Player Concerns

Surely these two illustrated examples are reasons why player concerns became necessary. Why would you buy a player (particularly a star player) when you have no intention of playing him. He doesnt fit your formation and will likely never get a game. If he is just to be used a bargaining tool' date=' then you will have plenty of time to get rid as Stuart says. If that is not the reason, well then I'm afraid to say you are hording players.

Similarly, if you are buying players simply so that other teams don't, you are again preventing sides who may actually play the player from getting there hands on them. Again, even if it is a far off riser, he will rise prior to getting a level 5 concern.

Whilst your intentions may be different, what you've shown in these examples is what other managers within the gameword may be thinking. "He's not even going to play the player and bought him just to stop me from doing it" or "He doesn't need that player but still bought him. He would have been a first teamer for me and will have played an important role at my club". And it's precisely why player concerns is a must to sustain interest in many gameworlds[/quote']

Ok, so i don't actually buy players for this reason, and that was a bad example i guess. Basically mate, im trying to show that player concerns probably doesn't act depending on position, rather section (mid, def, atk). That was a bad example, but what if you have a player who is a rm who is rated say 89, and then ahead of him you have two 94 rated wingers. Because rm/lm are basically interchangeable with wingers in many formations, he would hardly get a game, but would he expect to play 75% because he is the highest rated player in his position? I very much doubt it. I would say he would be compared to the entire midfield, and would thus not be a star, or even the entire team.

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Re: Player Concerns

say 1 team have a first team of 11 players on a average of 92 and then another 11 on 89 for the cups etc (call this team 1)

and another team in same division has no players above 91 most are on 89 (call this team 2)

Will the 89 rated players in team 1, get concerns due to lack of games as the players in front are of a much higher standard and they will not play often or will they be happy to play a few games as they not expecting league starts. as players in front of them certain to start most games if fit.

now i presume that team 2 as they have all roughly the same rating will want to play most of the games (which for a 22 man squad is not possible to give them all the amount of games they need to be concern free)

both these teams are not hoarding players imo as u need two teams or we all know what happens.

in the league team 1 has a better team than team 2 and in the cups they equal but if what people have said about having lower rated players than your first 11 for cups etc this will mean team 1 then has a better team in cups as well as the league, than team 2 does.

concerns (which i not against) have made team 1 better than team 2 now in the cups too which i don't think is good for setups in the long run!

ideally most teams would like to have a 92+ starting 11 but most cannot afford the wage bill and team 2 are one of those teams also!

i think SM need to put some more thought into this. as it is very restrictive for lower rated teams in same league that cannot afford huge wage bills.

for reasons i stated above although i maybe wrong and those 89 players in team 1 may become unhappy due to lack of games.

but u still need 21 players min in your squad so say u had only 21 what will happen to those players that get concerns and want to leave , will they?

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Re: Player Concerns

Why the hell are players becoming concerned about being loaned out? One of my players who is loaned out is a regular for that side and now is concerned.

i got one of those today to he's played 7 out of 8 games for them since he went on loan then he picked up red card and cannot play in last 3 games

now his concern gone up another level! due to lack of games!

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Re: Player Concerns

i got one of those today to he's played 7 out of 8 games for them since he went on loan then he picked up red card and cannot play in last 3 games

now his concern gone up another level! due to lack of games!

concern would be understandable if say he spends 2 seasons in a row on loan. Hell he should be happy that I sent him on loan instead of rotting in the reserves.

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Re: Player Concerns

I have loaned David FUSTER out to another club, he's played all 5 games since going on loan, but as we are in turn 18 he's technically only played 27% of league games, as he's the best player at the club in that position he is now concerned at lack of games, surely he should be ok with it as he has played 100% of games that he could have since going on loan?

Could be a bug?

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Re: Player Concerns

concern would be understandable if say he spends 2 seasons in a row on loan. Hell he should be happy that I sent him on loan instead of rotting in the reserves.

I don't understand this really. In real life it is pretty unlikely a player would be happy to be out on loan for multiple seasons, isn't it? Most players would feel pretty restless without a footballing "home" for an extended period of time. Obviously there are some exceptions but generally, I think this is true so I can't blame SM for reflecting the typical scenario.

Also, why do you own a player who you have loaned out for two seasons in a row? This is the "playability" side of the coin that SM are trying to improve with the changes. If players could avoid concerns by being out on loan, whatever their circumstances, this would be a neat little avoidance tool for anyone wanting to retain a large squad.

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Re: Player Concerns

Just wondering if anyone had a player that reduced the concern level?

If the players take a month to develop the concern level(without make any game) they shouldn't take a month if they keep playing to reduce? o.O

And how long a concerned player about being loaned out should stay in our team to reduce the concern level? And as i pointed out, i don't know any player in real life that become concerned about being loaned out.. Robinho, Tiago and Toni are few examples that SM is wrong..

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Re: Player Concerns

I don't understand this really. In real life it is pretty unlikely a player would be happy to be out on loan for multiple seasons' date=' isn't it? Most players would feel pretty restless without a footballing "home" for an extended period of time. Obviously there are some exceptions but generally, I think this is true so I can't blame SM for reflecting the typical scenario.

Also, why do you own a player who you have loaned out for two seasons in a row? This is the "playability" side of the coin that SM are trying to improve with the changes. If players could avoid concerns by being out on loan, whatever their circumstances, this would be a neat little avoidance tool for anyone wanting to retain a large squad.[/quote']

You got that wrong. What I essentially said was that I would understand a player developing concerns if he spent 2 seasons in a row on loan but not when I have loaned for the first time and he is a regular for them.

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Re: Player Concerns

And as i pointed out' date=' i don't know any player in real life that become concerned about being loaned out.. Robinho, Tiago and Toni are few examples that SM is wrong..[/quote']

i think the loan concern is not about realism, but there because otherwise it would not stop player hogging.

the other managers would just loan out star players = still not distributing them all across game worlds fairly.

thats why the loan concern is a MUST as otherwise may as well just forget the whole player AI thing althogether

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