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Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)


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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help) I think a nice feature would be to have the min number of games a player has to play within his profile. As alot of people who pl

Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help) the only problems I can see with the new concerns are youth developing concerns eg under 21s and players supposedly developing c

Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

taken from another thread.

I agree with this. Concerns add realism to an otherwise 'stock-exchange' game. I learned to live with concerns' date=' and although it took some time, I found myself selling many players that I had no real use for but that helped many other managers. Because of this, my gameworld is now more competitive and more managers tend to stick around.

However, I do feel as though concerns are still a work in progress and much more needs to be done. Firstly, they have become more and more aggressive these past few months - players jumping 2 levels in less than a month, concerns increasing much faster than decreasing, concerns increasing alongside ratings, concerns increasing while players are injured, etc.. Secondly, concerns should have less impact on small squads. After all, doesn't it defeat its own purpose when players are demanding transfers in a 21 man squad? Concerns were introduced as a measure to stop player hoarding, right? Then why are small squads with an 87 avg. having these issues? This is a prime example of concerns getting out of hand IMO. SM should have no trouble posting the rules for concerns and there is no strong argument for preventing this. The only reason stated is that with this info available, managers will proceed to give players the exact amount of games they need and therefore avoid concerns... really? I don't see this happening. In all honesty 80+% of the managers wont bother getting a calculator to figure it out, and for those who do, most will not keep track of the games played after a while. And the minority who will go out of their way when making sure everything is under control, will find it very hard (if they have large squads) to please 10, 12, 15 89 + players in similar roles.

Anyway, people might as well get used to concerns as they are here to stay (rightfully so). SM just need to tweak somethings and hopefully give a more detailed explanation as to how they work.[/quote']

hmm i dont mind either way if they release figures, the difficulty is that for every team it is different. a mancienni in my team will want 0 games a season probably. in a watford he may want 30+.

there is no hard and fast rule so how do you give accurate figures to the masses with so many variables?

also in real life and other manager games you know they dont give an exact amount. a rough figure i think is fine, but not exact amounts. part of the fun of SM is experimenting and not making it too easy.

secondly 21 player squads i agree shouldnt have concerns.

unless you literally have messi, eto, rooney, villa and ibra all upfront then 21 is fine.

definately agree with that.

although the counter to that is you have to have the managerial skills to keep a squad happy , like in real life. but concerns arent for that ( i think) and werent there just for a challenge so i agree to an extent with that.

and also with the fact that they should be totally frozen during injuries.

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

taken from another thread.

hmm i dont mind either way if they release figures' date=' the difficulty is that for every team it is different. a mancienni in my team will want 0 games a season probably. in a watford he may want 30+.

there is no hard and fast rule so how do you give accurate figures to the masses with so many variables?

also in real life and other manager games you know they dont give an exact amount. a rough figure i think is fine, but not exact amounts. part of the fun of SM is experimenting and not making it too easy.

secondly 21 player squads i agree shouldnt have concerns.

unless you literally have messi, eto, rooney, villa and ibra all upfront then 21 is fine.

definately agree with that.

although the counter to that is you have to have the managerial skills to keep a squad happy , like in real life. but concerns arent for that ( i think) and werent there just for a challenge so i agree to an extent with that.

and also with the fact that they should be totally frozen during injuries.[/quote']

Thanks for placing the post in the right place RIY.

I agree with you in all accounts but might view things slightly different in some.

I do believe SM have a definite rule when it comes to concerns, mainly because of the coding this would require if it wasn't so. What I mean is, that there probably is 1 definite algorithm they use to determine who expects what. Perhaps it involves playing with the team average or with section averages (defensive, midfield, attacking) and determining which players would expect games with this information. I don't know, I'm just guessing here.

As for the realism bit, I agree. Players with a rating similar to the starting 11 avg will expect to play a fair amount of games. Like in real life, you can't expect to sign a player good enough for a starting role and leave him on the bench. He will become unhappy and leave. But isn't it the same when you subb off a player every game? Wouldn't Messi grow unhappy if he was subbed off every game at the 75th minute to allow some playing time to Villa? I know this is a ridiculous example but in all fairness it's exactly what some managers do in SM to have an equilibrium with playing time, albeit involving different players.

Although it might seem as though I'm against concerns, I'm not. I just think there is work to be done. Concerns are becoming an integral part of this game and that is the main reason I would like to have some information as to how they work. And I'm not asking for specifics either, i.e. 'Fabregas has completed his move to X team and expects to play at least 27 games this season'. No. I'd be happy knowing how SM determine who gets concerns with what % of games. I know Teb has said that first choice players expect to play 75% of league games with cups, shields and SMFA competitions as bonuses. Well, what do non-first choices expect? How do SM determine who is a 1st or 2nd choice player?

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

I do believe SM have a definite rule when it comes to concerns, mainly because of the coding this would require if it wasn't so. What I mean is, that there probably is 1 definite algorithm they use to determine who expects what. Perhaps it involves playing with the team average or with section averages (defensive, midfield, attacking) and determining which players would expect games with this information. I don't know, I'm just guessing here.

maybe, i have no idea ;)
As for the realism bit, I agree. Players with Wouldn't Messi grow unhappy if he was subbed off every game at the 75th minute to allow some playing time to Villa? I know this is a ridiculous example but in all fairness it's exactly what some managers do in SM to have an equilibrium with playing time, albeit involving different players.

they would be unhappy in real life but to allow some flexibility SM allows it, im not sure how popular player ego's would be but it would certainly provide a challenge to the top teams with big ego's.

maybe that could be a new idea, player AI / doing things that would cause friction in real life.

but anyway, i think SM havnt stopped that purely because it would make fatigue and other players game time harder to deal with.

Although it might seem as though I'm against concerns, I'm not. I just think there is work to be done. Concerns are becoming an integral part of this game and that is the main reason I would like to have some information as to how they work. And I'm not asking for specifics either, i.e. 'Fabregas has completed his move to X team and expects to play at least 27 games this season'. No. I'd be happy knowing how SM determine who gets concerns with what % of games. I know Teb has said that first choice players expect to play 75% of league games with cups, shields and SMFA competitions as bonuses. Well, what do non-first choices expect? How do SM determine who is a 1st or 2nd choice player?

i can tell your not against concerns but doing the better than what most people do which is just moan. your offering genuine improvements.

1st/2nd team is reasonably obvious to me.

use your experiences too, keep your team for a while and then you get a feeling of how many games players need.

eg i only have 3 forwards, i dont want concerns to come in so only 3 90+ forwards.

if you told me the exact game time i would work it out and think actually, i could sneak somebody else in.

not all managers would do this as you said, but it would definately contribute to player hogging.

anyway i have cole and evra, if you use them properly you dont get concerns, they are both happy for me so far :)

i see your point and its a good one, i see SM's view. it just seemed to me it was something they were quite strong about / mentioned specifically with reasons why no figures come out, so i dont think they will go back on their decision. but who knows :)

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

taken from another thread.

hmm i dont mind either way if they release figures' date=' the difficulty is that for every team it is different. a mancienni in my team will want 0 games a season probably. in a watford he may want 30+.[/b']

there is no hard and fast rule so how do you give accurate figures to the masses with so many variables?

also in real life and other manager games you know they dont give an exact amount. a rough figure i think is fine, but not exact amounts. part of the fun of SM is experimenting and not making it too easy.

secondly 21 player squads i agree shouldnt have concerns.

unless you literally have messi, eto, rooney, villa and ibra all upfront then 21 is fine.

definately agree with that.

although the counter to that is you have to have the managerial skills to keep a squad happy , like in real life. but concerns arent for that ( i think) and werent there just for a challenge so i agree to an extent with that.

and also with the fact that they should be totally frozen during injuries.

They don't need to give exact guidelines per rating, but can do so by level ie

Tier 1: (Clubs best players) = 75% (any rating, doesn't matter if he's 99 or 75, if he/they are your best players that want 75%)

Tier 2: = 70%

Tier 3: = 65%

so on and so forth, that way you have some kind of idea as to what you players may need, with giving definitive answers, or making it too easy, you would still need to get out the calculator and work out how many games each player needs, and even then you may have to over-compensate slightly, just to guarantee concerns don't hit.

I'm currently experimenting with my favourite team, Arsenal in EC 514, I have tried to estimate how many games each player will need and have proceeded to give them only that number of games, each season I will try and refine it, until I have a basic 'tier guide', so far the season is early and all 20 of my 92+ (1x92,4x93,7x94,6x95,2x96) players are above 100% of games (due to cup games, and SMFA games (Although I have been fortunate with injuries to Van Persie basically meaning (if my calculations are correct) I will only have to give him 2.5 more games this season, as well as Cole, Sneijder, Gomez and Robben all suffering long term injuries))

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

until I have a basic 'tier guide'' date='[/quote']

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=60774

made this a while back, it died down but my aim was as you said:

if we all contributed properly it could do a great deal of good.

now we know a lot more about concerns if we said 3rd choice, X rating difference between next players and number of games we could get far :)

i see concerns like the match engine, there are obvious favourites but SM may well leave it to us to work out instead of doing it for us ! :)

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

The point has been made endlessly - a squad cap' date=' in any shape or form, is just lazy thinking. Concerns ARE the way forward, subject to a bit more tweaking, you just can't see it yet.:)[/quote']

If it's going to work, it needs a lot more tweaking. Basically, some so-called 'hoarders' just rotate their players between not playing at all until they go up to level 3 concern, and then sending them on loan until the same, and then taking them back and starting the same process again.

I think concerns added with a squad cap of 50 is fair.

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

If it's going to work' date=' it needs a lot more tweaking. Basically, some so-called 'hoarders' just rotate their players between not playing at all until they go up to level 3 concern, and then sending them on loan until the same, and then taking them back and starting the same process again.

I think concerns added with a squad cap of 50 is fair.[/quote']

Squad cap is a red herring. Concerns are the only way to go.

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

Not when people are easily able to find a way around it. There's no finding your way around a squad cap.

squad cap of 50?

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=75856

thats more than enough players to ruin a setup.

5 top teams with 250 of the best players?

have fun in that gameworld.

people time and time again ask for squad caps, yet forget that SM introduced concerns because the community and SM themselves decided they were the better option.

some people are never happy:rolleyes:

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

Not when people are easily able to find a way around it. There's no finding your way around a squad cap.

Concerns and a squad cap would be good. People who do not want a squad cap probably have large numbers of youngsters in their squads/lots of risers.

A squad cap would mean that the talented youngsters would be more evenly spread around the set-up and that less risers could be bought (meaning old gameworlds with money being worthless would be lessened, but not removed).

With concerns people do find ways around them-a squad cap you can't. Implementing both would be good. A squad cap of 100 is EASILY enough for 30 first teamers, 30 youngsters and 40 risers. 100 is therefore ample for a good first team/youth team/risers without taking it to an extreme.

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

squad cap of 50?

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=75856

thats more than enough players to ruin a setup.

5 top teams with 250 of the best players?

have fun in that gameworld.

people time and time again ask for squad caps' date=' yet forget that SM introduced concerns because the community and SM themselves decided they were the better option.

some people are never happy:rolleyes:[/quote']

I didn't say that. I asked for both because each of them are not enough on their own :rolleyes:

If it's going to work' date=' it needs a lot more tweaking. Basically, some so-called 'hoarders' just rotate their players between not playing at all until they go up to level 3 concern, and then sending them on loan until the same, and then taking them back and starting the same process again.

[b']I think concerns added with a squad cap of 50 is fair[/b].

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

I didn't say that. I asked for both because each of them are not enough on their own :rolleyes:

what would it acheive though?

concerns already prevent you having a squad of 50 good players.

the squad cap would just stop small teams becoming good via risers.

something this forum has said on msany occasions is part of the attraction to them of the game.

a squad cap does literally nothing to help stop player hogging......thats my point.

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

I didn't say that. I asked for both because each of them are not enough on their own :rolleyes:

It is quite clear you meant both-and I agree that they are not enough on thier own. A cap of 100 as I said before will not stop people buying risers, youth and first team players but spread them out more.

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

This is the concerns thread. If any of you want to flog the dead 'squad size' horse I suggest you take your suggestions over to that thread. Concerns, as anyone who has taken the trouble to read this thread would know, more than adequately cover all contingencies relating to star hogging (lack of games concern) and the over-abundance of young talent (wage/opportunity concerns).

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

This is the concerns thread. If any of you want to flog the dead 'squad size' horse I suggest you take your suggestions over to that thread. Concerns' date=' as anyone who has taken the trouble to read this thread would know, more than adequately cover all contingencies relating to star hogging (lack of games concern) and the over-abundance of young talent (wage/opportunity concerns).[/quote']

Well if people are talking about both they can do so-its not off topic. The two can be discussed if people want. Don't like it then nothing you can do about it:D:D.:rolleyes: This thread is more than 90 pages long-I think all "contingences" have been adequately brought up by now:rolleyes: regarding concerns.

Hardcore players want huge squads, but some do not as it means that over time a few teams will dominate the set-ups to an incredibly unrealistic finanical situation. Limiting squad sizes prevents player hogging QUICKLY in terms of young talent and limits, BUT NOT REMOVES, the possibility of buying risers.

You would be a hardcore gamer. Ask most people what justice is and they would say something like Gaddafi being brought to trial but, as your sig said; "Messi is 99-justice is done".

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

You would be a hardcore gamer. Ask most people what justice is and they would say something like Gaddafi being brought to trial but' date=' as your sig said; "Messi is 99-justice is done".[/quote']

You know nothing about me so I would appreciate it if you kept your assumptions to yourself. As for justice? Your comment makes no sense, everything is relative. I come on this forum to talk about football and subscribe to numerous other websites to talk about other things - including political justice - to do otherwise would be absurd.

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

i would be what most of you people on the forum would call a player hogger.

i have 35 1st team players. 151 youth team players and 10 loaned out.

i have only ever had 3 concerns about players not playing. Marcelo, Busquets and Martinez. They are all on level one. Since they have concerns i now play them 75% of games apart from the games i have to put out my strongest team.

My point is that i don't think player concerns prevent player hogging, There are teams in my setup with less players than me and they have far worse concerns than i do. I think because my average rating for my first 11 is so high that most players don't even expect to play. i know this is a seperate arguement but through gate receipts and prize money i still break even with wages. Thats were the problem lies in my opinion.

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

i would be what most of you people on the forum would call a player hogger.

i have 35 1st team players. 151 youth team players and 10 loaned out.

i have only ever had 3 concerns about players not playing. Marcelo' date=' Busquets and Martinez. They are all on level one. Since they have concerns i now play them 75% of games apart from the games i have to put out my strongest team.

My point is that i don't think player concerns prevent player hogging, There are teams in my setup with less players than me and they have far worse concerns than i do. I think because my average rating for my first 11 is so high that most players don't even expect to play. i know this is a seperate arguement but through gate receipts and prize money i still break even with wages. Thats were the problem lies in my opinion.[/quote']

What rating are your top players PrestonDan?

I'd be considered a "player hogger" - I have more than you and my average first team is 96 rated. I got a massive list of player concerns so have sold the likes of: Cambiasso, Zanetti, Stankovic, Malouda, Fletcher, Vermaelen, Westermann, Anderson .etc

Player concerns has made me have to trim my first team squad considerably.

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

What rating are your top players PrestonDan?

I'd be considered a "player hogger" - I have more than you and my average first team is 96 rated. I got a massive list of player concerns so have sold the likes of: Cambiasso' date=' Zanetti, Stankovic, Malouda, Fletcher, Vermaelen, Westermann, Anderson .etc

Player concerns has made me have to trim my first team squad considerably.[/quote']

95 but 96 when messi not injured for 8 wks.

same as yours then i guess.

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

i would be what most of you people on the forum would call a player hogger.

i have 35 1st team players. 151 youth team players and 10 loaned out.

i have only ever had 3 concerns about players not playing. Marcelo' date=' Busquets and Martinez. They are all on level one. Since they have concerns i now play them 75% of games apart from the games i have to put out my strongest team.

My point is that i don't think player concerns prevent player hogging, There are teams in my setup with less players than me and they have far worse concerns than i do. I think because my average rating for my first 11 is so high that most players don't even expect to play. i know this is a seperate arguement but through gate receipts and prize money i still break even with wages. Thats were the problem lies in my opinion.[/quote']

I wouldn't speak too soon if I were you! Even though you have a very high first 11 average rating any players outside that 11 rated 90 or more WILL eventually develop concerns. That's the point, they won't always be content to play second fiddle to your first team when they could be playing first team football elsewhere.

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Re: Player Concerns (please read the Online Help if looking for help)

I had a team that had Busquets at 4th choice ( I quit when he was a 93, not 94).I used him when others got injured. De Rossi, Cambiasso, Essien where all ahead of him-he only got cup games but was still happy:confused::confused: Even if Cambiasso/Essien got injured then De Rossi would step in-Busquets only got league games that I wanted to rest all my starters (quite rare). And he did not develop a concern after several seasons.

Other positions in my team had similar strength, but only Lloris got concerned due to lack of game time on my team (Casillas sisn't need to be rotated:p). So from what I have seen, concerns do very little to stop player hogging although others may have different expereinces of it:)

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