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Official Arsenal Thread

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

You're seriously trying to argue that Gerrard isn't loyal? He's in the top 3 Prem footballers for loyalty with Giggs and Scholes.

There's no point arguing your other points as you simply won't listen to anyone who doesn't think that the sun shines out of Wenger's rectum.

I never once said he ain't loyal. I said he handed in a transfer request twice. Fact not fiction. Look it up.

Wenger is a rare kind of manager. Just because he is better than Mancini don't hate ;)

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

I never once said he ain't loyal. I said he handed in a transfer request twice. Fact not fiction. Look it up.

Wenger is a rare kind of manager. Just because he is better than Mancini don't hate ;)

I know of one time, in 2005, when the Chelsea move was mooted. I don't see how that should be a stick to beat him with - he's an incredibly loyal player, even sticking with a hapless Liverpool in the twilight of his career when he has few remaining chances to win the league.

Wenger is an excellent economist. His recent transfers haven't been as good or inspired as they used to though, his tactics look shot and he has no qualms with selling his best players to rivals. He doesn't have the desire to win things at the moment (treating 4th as a trophy) and that shouldn't be good enough. I have my misgivings with Mancini but you can't deny he handled the pressure in last season's title run in very very well.

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

I know of one time' date=' in 2005, when the Chelsea move was mooted. I don't see how that should be a stick to beat him with - he's an incredibly loyal player, even sticking with a hapless Liverpool in the twilight of his career when he has few remaining chances to win the league.

Wenger is an excellent economist. His recent transfers haven't been as good or inspired as they used to though, his tactics look shot and he has no qualms with selling his best players to rivals. He doesn't have the desire to win things at the moment (treating 4th as a trophy) and that shouldn't be good enough. I have my misgivings with Mancini but you can't deny he handled the pressure in last season's title run in very very well.[/quote']

I never once said anything bad about Gerrard. I clealry used him as a point to how the modern game is of football.

I could of used Henry who loved the club and even cried when he left. It doesn't matter though does it. Money talks in Football now days.

Wenger can not hope for much more than 4th if he is realistic. City buy every good player we have had in the last few years other than Fabregas and RVP. And even then they would of had both if they could of.

Mancini did ok, however to have a dream team like City's and be where they are now is a joke. You should be unbeaten with a team of yours and defo through to the next round of the CL.

Don't get me wrong I don't hate City at all however they should be doing better for the players they have.

Compare City's wages and transfer fee's with Arsenals and then you will understand why we are happy with 4th.

Considering we have spent less than all of the top half of the league in the last 10 years he is doing a good job.

However maybe he does need to learn about getting players on the right contract and stop playing players out of position. This is up for debate. But you can not mock a man for getting the best out of a team with very little world class stars if any.

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

I never once said anything bad about Gerrard. I clealry used him as a point to how the modern game is of football.

I could of used Henry who loved the club and even cried when he left. It doesn't matter though does it. Money talks in Football now days.

Wenger can not hope for much more than 4th if he is realistic. City buy every good player we have had in the last few years other than Fabregas and RVP. And even then they would of had both if they could of.

Mancini did ok' date=' however to have a dream team like City's and be where they are now is a joke. You should be unbeaten with a team of yours and defo through to the next round of the CL.

Don't get me wrong I don't hate City at all however they should be doing better for the players they have.

Compare City's wages and transfer fee's with Arsenals and then you will understand why we are happy with 4th.

Considering we have spent less than all of the top half of the league in the last 10 years he is doing a good job.

However maybe he does need to learn about getting players on the right contract and stop playing players out of position. This is up for debate. But you can not mock a man for getting the best out of a team with very little world class stars if any.[/quote']

I'm just puzzled as to why you used a player who has only ever played for one club throughout a long career as an example of money turning players' heads.

I think you're blaming others for Wenger's inadequacies. Not winning a trophy in 8 years is inexcusable for a club like Arsenal, even with City and Chelsea chucking money around.

With the exception of Fabregas, none of the players you sold had to go. Had he focused on keeping a side capable of challenging instead of cashing in and not spending that money then you'd probably still be in title races.

I'm not happy at all with Mancini (or his players) at the moment. I can cope with dropping points and being second but I can count the number of good City performances this season on one hand.

On your last point, you can use the fact that it's been him who sold those world class players without replacing them against him.

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

Firstly they just won the CL.

Secondly they had great players like Alonso' date=' Garcia etc..

Thirdly they wasn't far off the Prem anyway. A few years later they finished second I believe.

Gerrard wanted either Chelsea or Madrid. Look it up yourself it is old news.

Also people like you annoy me the most. You take one line out of 4 paragraphs and base an argument which I have stats to back up. In future maybe you can reply to my whole debate before picking things apart.

What is the chant at Gerrard?

Oh Gerrard Gerrard

He kisses the badge and the crest

Hands in a transfer request

oh Gerrard Gerrard.[/quote']

Yeah they did win the CL. That means what exactly? But had they won the prem before hand ? Had they looked like challenging ?

Garcia was not great. But thats a different story, but if your trying to insinuate Liverpool had a squad of fantastic players then please go look at the squad which lifted the CL. It had some fantastic players in there but Im yet to understand how some of the players involved actually appeared in a CL final let alone won it.

I would argue they were never ever going to win the premiership, and never ever looked like doing so. Until like you said a few years later they finished second, but that was after his transfer request yes ? So its irrelevant that they nearly won it one year.

Im well aware he wanted to go to Chelsea or Madrid. What about it ? You have gone from making assumptions to literally just making statements. If your trying to insinuate that he was going to these clubs for pay cheques, which you probably are, lets discuss that. You can certainly tell your an Arsenal fan, who as a group continually slate Nasri for leaving due to "money", forgetting you have continued to win nothing and he has a lovely EPL winners medal at home.

playing for Real Madrid is the boy hood fantasy and the pinnacle for the vast majority of players. They are a super club. They were much better placed to win honours on a regular basis. But of course, he only wanted to go there because he would get a pay increase.

Chelsea on the other hand, had won the prem when they went in for Gerrard (??) already, and were looking likely to be a huge force within the EPL. no doubting he would of got a pay rise, but ofcourse, thats the only reason he wanted to go to them.

I couldnt give a **** what you think of me. You talk utter cr@p.

I picked up on something that I disagreed with. What stats have you provided? Every point you made on that post in regards to Gerrard, Arsenals future if City / Chelsea hadnt come along were all bloody assumptions.

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

Was we or was we not the best team in England at that time?

Yes

Was we undeafted for a whole season

Yes

Did the biggest clubs in the world want our players

Yes

Did Chelsea buy the prem in 05

Yes

Tell me where my assumptions are? I will tell you stats.

You are alot thicker than I thought. Credit where credit is due.

Why mention all the above "stats and facts.. lol" when I didnt even question any of them specifically.

But in your original post you talked about Arsenal as potentially being known as the best team in the world. Thats slightly different from what you have posted above, yes? :rolleyes:

Did I ask if you went unbeaten for one season ? No. :rolleyes: Im well aware thats a fact.

They certainly did and they got them. Why did all your players leave for other clubs ? Your supposed to be Arsenal, the team who shall be known as the best team in the world. :rolleyes:

Now im going to assume, you know what the word assume means.

You have on numerous occassions made out as if Gerrard only wanted to leave for financial reasons. You do not know this nor do you consider any other possible explanation. This is an ASSUMPTION.

You assume that Chelsea were the only thing that stopped your club being the best side in world football. Thats an outrageous statement and although they certainly proved a stumbling block to your EPL status there were other clubs in equal or better positions to be named as the best team in world football. You ASSUMED you would be the best.

You ASSUME you produce the best talent. I could, and will happily at a later date argue this point with you. But lets stick to the hot topic of assumptions.

You ASSUME players go for money not titles.

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

Was we or was we not the best team in England at that time?

Yes

Was we undeafted for a whole season

Yes

Did the biggest clubs in the world want our players

Yes

Did Chelsea buy the prem in 05

Yes

Tell me where my assumptions are? I will tell you stats.

Was we? Don't you mean were we? Grammar is key!

On the last point you made, regarding Chelsea buying the Premier League title, I disagree. Chelsea didn't buy the Premier League. They bought a squad that went on to win the Premier League. Just like every other side that has won a title. Every side buys players.

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

Was we? Don't you mean were we? Grammar is key!

On the last point you made' date=' regarding Chelsea buying the Premier League title, I disagree. Chelsea didn't buy the Premier League. They bought a squad that went on to win the Premier League. Just like every other side that has won a title. Every side buys players.[/quote']

Thank-you, thought I was the only one who noticed.

Back to the argument though

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

Was we? Don't you mean were we? Grammar is key

My bad for the mistake however a low form of whit to be little people by grammar. I ain't making this a big issue but in future if I make an error you could just inbox me :)

You are alot thicker than I thought. Credit where credit is due.

Why mention all the above "stats and facts.. lol" when I didnt even question any of them specifically.

Not really needed, I never once insulted you and if you can not debate with people without using insults then I would rather not debate. Just saying...

You say that you didn't question them specifically which is correct. However I was only stating my point which is still valid.

All I said was that Gerrard had his head turned by money, the reason I say this is because he himself is known as a loyal player but even he looked elsewhere. I wasn't using him as a dig, I was using him as an example to the highest order. If I had said that about Anelka people would of said it was a poor example etc... So that's why I went with Gerrard who I rate highly myself.

Money has come in to football big time. Loyalty very rarely exists anymore. I don't see there being more Giggsy or Scholes in the future.

As for my points in Arsenal I see your side they are assumptions. However once which have some sort of evidence to back that up. We was doing very well until rich clubs started this new era of mega spending.

If you look back to when Blackburn won the league they did what Chelsea did to Arsenal practically the only difference being that back then football didn't make anywhere near as much income as now days. Hence the money boost only being short term. United then got stronger and ended up winning the following season (pretty sure they did).

Money has changed the game and those with money will win more trophies. I can't say fact as it can never be proven however we all know that it usually leads to success.

Overall I am happy to have a debate with you but leave out the insults in future not once have I called you stupid or a moron. I don't expect you to do that either :)

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

I'm just puzzled as to why you used a player who has only ever played for one club throughout a long career as an example of money turning players' heads.

I think you're blaming others for Wenger's inadequacies. Not winning a trophy in 8 years is inexcusable for a club like Arsenal' date=' even with City and Chelsea chucking money around.

I'm not happy at all with Mancini (or his players) at the moment. I can cope with dropping points and being second but I can count the number of good City performances this season on one hand.

On your last point, you can use the fact that it's been him who sold those world class players without replacing them against him.[/quote']

As I said to Magic, I used Gerrard as he is the perfect example that even a man like himself can be led to look elsewhere. If I said Anelka for example you would of called it a poor example.

8 years is bad. However we mainly used our youth in Carling Cup and even if we won that it would hardly of made a big difference. I would prfer we focus on getting into CL football. Liverpool won it last year and where was there CL football? Thats why I say we should focus. Specially when teams like Spurs are only getting better.

Mancini is over rated. Man City will be a powerhouse for many of years to come. Regardless of manager, however with the quality on your team sheet, United shouldn't be leading the prem. Not saying you can't or won't come back at all, however out the CL in the way you did was bad. Tough group yes, very tough but once again you had a far better team than Ajax and Dortmund regardless of what others think. Should of atleast won 2 games our of the 6. Just my view though which I am sure even City fans would agree with.

As for Wenger selling star players. It could well be his fault, it could be the board or it can be the players. However Wenger is mainly to blame in not offering them the right contracts. Something which has always bugged me about Arsenal, we either sell them to quick or let them go to early. However for what Wenger has done on a whole to the club I feel no fan has a right to want the man out. He loves Arsenal and turned down Madrid twice to stay here. However I respect peoples opinions and if they feel that he should go then fine, however I will never hide my views on the matter. :)

Nice debate by the way stuart rep :)

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

Not really needed' date=' I never once insulted you and if you can not debate with people without using insults then I would rather not debate. Just saying...

You say that you didn't question them specifically which is correct. However I was only stating my point which is still valid.

All I said was that Gerrard had his head turned by money, the reason I say this is because he himself is known as a loyal player but even he looked elsewhere. I wasn't using him as a dig, I was using him as an example to the highest order. If I had said that about Anelka people would of said it was a poor example etc... So that's why I went with Gerrard who I rate highly myself.

Money has come in to football big time. Loyalty very rarely exists anymore. I don't see there being more Giggsy or Scholes in the future.

As for my points in Arsenal I see your side they are assumptions. However once which have some sort of evidence to back that up. We was doing very well until rich clubs started this new era of mega spending.

If you look back to when Blackburn won the league they did what Chelsea did to Arsenal practically the only difference being that back then football didn't make anywhere near as much income as now days. Hence the money boost only being short term. United then got stronger and ended up winning the following season (pretty sure they did).

Money has changed the game and those with money will win more trophies. I can't say fact as it can never be proven however we all know that it usually leads to success.

Overall I am happy to have a debate with you but leave out the insults in future not once have I called you stupid or a moron. I don't expect you to do that either :)[/quote']

No you did not, but it certainly seemed like you was attempting to patronise me.

You was stating an opinion in an attempt to prove a point to me, one which I wasnt arguing. Its valid if not slightly bemusing and completely irrelevant.

My initial point isnt really about whether or not I agree with you about Gerrards head being turned by money. It was about how you came to that conclusion, the vast majority of points made in your original post were assumptions made by you, or made by the media then used as some form of proof by you.

Money has come into football and its here to stay, for better or worse. The days of players playing for the pride of the club are gone (sadly). Its a global sport so loyalty will be a rarety but money is not the only thing that can turn a players head, the opportunity to play for a huge side ( or another huge side if they have already played at one ), the opportunity to challenge oneself in a different league, the opportunity to win trophies, the opportunity to get more play time, and generally have a new challenge.

Why should players stay with one team forever ?? In some cases a little respect and loyalty would be nice ( if the club stuck with them through injuries etc ), but at the end of the day I dont find it disloyal if a footballer wants to move on after 3+ years to try something knew. Ofcourse, many footballers will obviously factor in how much they get paid ( to much ) but just because a player wishes to leave doesnt mean its because of money. I have changed my opinion somewhat on this topic over the last few years.

You were doing fantastically, but so were other european teams. Im not going to say you werent one of the best, because you clearly were, I was just picking up on the wording of your point "the worlds best" or something along those lines.

Money did change the game but money was creeping into the game long before your Chelsea and City. There has always been a gulf between the rich and the poor in football, but in pre cheslea / City era your club was more towards the top (within EPL) now you find yourself not quite as high up, although you spend an outrageous amount of money on wages each season.

I wont insult you again, as I clearly misinterpreted you. Sorry ;)

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

To say Gerrard had his head turned by the thought of "money" is completley false and without no basis.

Money has and never will be an issue for Gerrard he could have left Liverpool loads of times and earned considerably more elsewhere.

The reason why he considered Chelsea was two-fold.

1- The fact he was carrying Liverpool and had led them them to a quite unprecedented, unexpected European triumph all by himself and even though hi contract was winding down the offer of a new contract from the club was not coming. He felt unwanted, unloved and Rafa was also making no moves to reassure him how vital he was.

2- The fact Chelsea were fast becoming the dominant force and he knew he could probably win more (a lot more) trophies by joining them.

Money was never an issue at all and if you read his book or seen his documentaries whatever this is clearly the case. I have no reason to doubt him whatsoever.

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

Hulk you need to know when to stop

Stop what? We all had a fair and open debate. We expressed our views collectively.

This is a forum right? If that's the case then can't see how that would stop.

On a side note time to get back to Arsenal related stuff.

Predictions for the Newcastle game? :)

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

Stop what? We all had a fair and open debate. We expressed our views collectively.

This is a forum right? If that's the case then can't see how that would stop.

On a side note time to get back to Arsenal related stuff.

Predictions for the Newcastle game? :)

I thing there will be goals in this one' date=' but not as many as in Man U vs Newcastle game. They pushed Man U to the limit and i can't see no reason why they can't do the same to us. Although they are struggling, so are we and we were lucky to get away with all three points against Wigan.

A week of rest will have done no harm to our team and with Giroud returning to lead our attack and us playing at Emirates Stadium, I will go for a hard fought [b']2-1[/b] win to us:).

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

I thing there will be goals in this one' date=' but not as many as in Man U vs Newcastle game. They pushed Man U to the limit and i can't see no reason why they can't do the same to us. Although they are struggling, so are we and we were lucky to get away with all three points against Wigan.

A week of rest will have done no harm to our team and with Giroud returning to lead our attack and us playing at Emirates Stadium, I will go for a hard fought [b']2-1[/b] win to us:).

True but will Giroud even play? Theo has played two games as a striker and we have won both. He has scored or made the goal/goals in both games. If Wenger wants to keep Theo then we need to start him as a striker.

I think it will be a 0-0 draw. Newcastle will most probs make the better chances, only reason I say this is because I feel Tiote will man mark Santi for the whole match which usually leads to us not scoring or playing poorly.

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

As for Wenger selling star players. It could well be his fault' date=' it could be the board or it can be the players. However Wenger is mainly to blame in not offering them the right contracts[/quote']

But doesn't he have quite strict orders about what kind of contracts he can offer to them?

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

But doesn't he have quite strict orders about what kind of contracts he can offer to them?

We have a cap in place. But no criteria from what I no. Ramsey earns more than some of the more experienced players. So doubt we have a strategy, just a cap. Which I think we have broken with Podolski wage :P

No news mate sorry, I hope Theo starts though wouldn't want him to be dropped after two good games in a row. Hopefully a new contract soon.

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Re: Official Arsenal Thread

Newcastle Line Up; Krul; Simpson' date=' Perch, Coloccini ©, Santon; Bigirimana, Tiote; Cisse, Marveaux, Obertan; Ba.

We simply have to win this.[/quote']

Definetely. The fact that Cabaye is out has to provide a good advantage for us. Additionally, if Ben Arfa was playing, he would have been a hassle. This better not be like the 4-4 game. Im surprised Anita isn't in the 11 either. It should be interesting watching Ba against us.

Not to mention, we got a game in hand after the postponed West Ham game. If we win both games which I believe we most certainly can, We should find ourselves in a good position.

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