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Re: Howard webb

Another mistake from Howard Webb?

Remember this thread isn't about how he cost us the game' date=' more about how he's an undercover United fan. It was probably ten times more of a penalty than the one he gave.[/quote']

excuses, excuses...

Torres at Old Trafford last season. Petulantly kicks the penalty spot when he was on a yellow plus other fouls and still dosen't get sent off yet you concentrate on the penalty he gave to United.

Anfield last season, Andre mariner (4th official today btw) gave every single decision to you guys. You guys get your fair share of luck, not our fault you're just plain garbage

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Re: Howard webb howard webb is the best ref in the premier league. that tells us how bad the standard is really

Re: Howard webb :mad:i hope he never refrees another liverpool match in his life.

Re: Howard webb

excuses' date=' excuses...

Torres at Old Trafford last season. Petulantly kicks the penalty spot when he was on a yellow plus other fouls and still dosen't get sent off yet you concentrate on the penalty he gave to United.

Anfield last season, Andre mariner (4th official today btw) gave every single decision to you guys. You guys get your fair share of luck, not our fault you're just plain garbage[/quote']

Howard Webb effectively ruined the game as a contest today. Liverpool certainly didn't lose it and I'm fairly certain United didn't win it. When you concede a soft penalty after 30 seconds for little more than a hand on the back and you have your captain sent off after half an hour what hope do you have of winning?

The fact this thread even exists and has over 100 replies shows that there must be some truth in the fact that Webb is biased. It's clearly not the first time he's given United dubious decisions.

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Re: Howard webb

Howard Webb effectively ruined the game as a contest today. Liverpool certainly didn't lose it and I'm fairly certain United didn't win it. When you concede a soft penalty after 30 seconds for little more than a hand on the back and you have your captain sent off after half an hour what hope do you have of winning?

The fact this thread even exists and has over 100 replies shows that there must be some truth in the fact that Webb is biased. It's clearly not the first time he's given United dubious decisions.

lol Its not Webb's job to make sure its a spectacle. Shouldn't make a difference to him if its the 1st or the 90th minute. As much as you may want to deny it fact is there was contact (minimal) and it was a penalty (however soft it was). So he got that decision right. Webb did not give United a 2nd penalty when Johnny Evans was assaulted' date=' so he was biased against Liverpool. He then correctly sent off Gerrard. So in my estimations he was more biased to Liverpool. Taking into account the league game this season he got all the decisions right. Looking at the game last season at OT he favoured both sides once (although I am still not fully convinced that it was not a penalty). [b']So according to my analysis he was been favouring Liverpool[/b].

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Re: Howard webb

lol Its not Webb's job to make sure its a spectacle. Shouldn't make a difference to him if its the 1st or the 90th minute. As much as you may want to deny it fact is there was contact (minimal) and it was a penalty (however soft it was). So he got that decision right. Webb did not give United a 2nd penalty when Johnny Evans was assaulted' date=' so he was biased against Liverpool. He then correctly sent off Gerrard. So in my estimations he was more biased to Liverpool. Taking into account the league game this season he got all the decisions right. Looking at the game last season at OT he favoured both sides once (although I am still not fully convinced that it was not a penalty). [b']So according to my analysis he was been favouring Liverpool[/b].

How on earth can you turn around today's event to possibly say he favoured Liverpool? I'm not suggesting he should be making a spectacle out of it, you attacked our performance to which I replied saying there was little more we could have done after his two big decisions. The red card was 90% of the time a red card, fair enough. How you can possibly say it was a penalty really is beyond me though. We see way worse than that go on in literally every game played and hardly ever see penalty's given. Football is a CONTACT sport, there will always be contact, that doesn't mean players should be throwing themselves to the ground crying out for a penalty or free kick or whatever. A few of your players were doing it a lot today, namely Nani and in fairness to Webb he didn't give him much. But come on, it wasn't a penalty.

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Re: Howard webb

Howard Webb effectively ruined the game as a contest today.

No he didn't. Gerrard commiting a stupid tackle ruined the game as a contest.

What I don't get in this whole debate is how everyone is blaming Howard Webb. Think about what Webb sees. He sees Berbatov move past Agger. He sees Agger dangle a leg out in the direction of Berbatov. He sees Agger's leg make contact with Berbatov. He sees Berbatov fall to the ground. He does not see any replays. First up, I thought it was a penalty. After a second look, the moment's hesitation that Berbatov made before tumbling to the ground became apparent. Webb does not get that luxury, and it's easy to see why he gave a penalty.

Any Liverpool fan (or non-Liverpool fan for that matter) who is blaming Webb for a bad decision/costing you the game/being a Man Utd fan is deluded, bitter and downright pathetic.

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Re: Howard webb

No he didn't. Gerrard commiting a stupid tackle ruined the game as a contest.

What I don't get in this whole debate is how everyone is blaming Howard Webb. Think about what Webb sees. He sees Berbatov move past Agger. He sees Agger dangle a leg out in the direction of Berbatov. He sees Agger's leg make contact with Berbatov. He sees Berbatov fall to the ground. He does not see any replays. First up' date=' I thought it was a penalty. After a second look, the moment's hesitation that Berbatov made before tumbling to the ground became apparent. Webb does not get that luxury, and it's easy to see why he gave a penalty.

Any Liverpool fan (or non-Liverpool fan for that matter) who is blaming Webb for a bad decision/costing you the game/being a Man Utd fan is deluded, bitter and downright pathetic.[/quote']

In order to give a penalty does the referee not have to be 100% certain though? He can't make a decision on what he thought he saw. If, from an obstructed view, the referee gave a foul everytime a player went to ground we would see a lot of penalty's. And in that case should he not check with his linesman (who had a perfectly clear view of the incident today and DIDN'T FLAG)?

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Re: Howard webb

How on earth can you turn around today's event to possibly say he favoured Liverpool? I'm not suggesting he should be making a spectacle out of it' date=' you attacked our performance to which I replied saying there was little more we could have done after his two big decisions. The red card was 90% of the time a red card, fair enough. How you can possibly say it was a penalty really is beyond me though. We see way worse than that go on in literally every game played and hardly ever see penalty's given. Football is a CONTACT sport, there will always be contact, that doesn't mean players should be throwing themselves to the ground crying out for a penalty or free kick or whatever. A few of your players were doing it a lot today, namely Nani and in fairness to Webb he didn't give him much. But come on, it wasn't a penalty.[/quote']

Can't you read? I said over the last 3 United-LFC games he has refereed he has favoured Liverpool or at the very most been neutral. But you completely ignore all kinds of facts and proofs and are promptly ready with your excuses. And about nani he can be guilty often but today he got up straight away 95% of the times. In fact how he was actually kicked quite hard twice in the game today but none of the challenges get yellows yet Anderson comes on and his first challenge (nothing dangerous or severe) is a booking?

You lost because Agger was a bit too eager and because finally a ref had some balls to send of Saint Gerrard. Blaming it on anything else is excuses.

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Re: Howard webb

In order to give a penalty does the referee not have to be 100% certain though? He can't make a decision on what he thought he saw. If' date=' from an obstructed view, the referee gave a foul everytime a player went to ground we would see a lot of penalty's. And in that case should he not check with his linesman (who had a perfectly clear view of the incident today and DIDN'T FLAG)?[/quote']

So you're arguing that Webb wasn't certain in making his decison? Clutching at straws my friend, it's possible to be certain and still wrong, you know (and it's highly debatable whether or not he was actually wrong in giving the penalty).

And if the assistant had a clear view of the incident, then why didn't he tell Webb that he saw minimal contact and an apparent dive? Or is he a Man Utd fan as well?

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Can't you read? I said over the last 3 United-LFC games he has refereed he has favoured Liverpool or at the very most been neutral. But you completely ignore all kinds of facts and proofs and are promptly ready with your excuses. And about nani he can be guilty often but today he got up straight away 95% of the times. In fact how he was actually kicked quite hard twice in the game today but none of the challenges get yellows yet Anderson comes on and his first challenge (nothing dangerous or severe) is a booking?

You lost because Agger was a bit too eager and because finally a ref had some balls to send of Saint Gerrard. Blaming it on anything else is excuses.

Yes I can read. I'm more interested in why you are bringing up the last three games between the two sides when we were discussing today's game? It also doesn't really matter how quickly Nani got up but more how quickly he went down. As I said fair play to Webb for not falling for his antics.

So you're arguing that Webb wasn't certain in making his decison? Clutching at straws my friend' date=' it's possible to be certain and still wrong, you know (and it's highly debatable whether or not he was actually wrong in giving the penalty).

And if the assistant had a clear view of the incident, then why didn't he tell Webb that he saw minimal contact and an apparent dive? Or is he a Man Utd fan as well?[/quote']

I'm arguing that there's no way he could have been certain as like you explained in your previous post - he didn't have a clear view. Even looking at replays myself I'm not convinced Agger's leg made contact at all.

The referee's in charge, does the assistant have a right to do so if the ref has already made a decision? If not then he probably received some money from Ferguson as well ;)

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Re: Howard webb

I'm arguing that there's no way he could have been certain as like you explained in your previous post - he didn't have a clear view. Even looking at replays myself I'm not convinced Agger's leg made contact at all.

You're not in a position to say that really; only Howard Webb is.

The referee's in charge' date=' does the assistant have a right to do so if the ref has already made a decision? If not then he probably received some money from Ferguson as well ;)[/quote']

Of course he does! It happens all the time.

Look, I'm not going to argue with you, going round in circles all the time. If you think that Howard Webb made a mistake, then fair enough. But if you genuinely believe that Webb made that decision because he supports United, or because he hates Liverpool, then you need help.

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Yes I can read. I'm more interested in why you are bringing up the last three games between the two sides when we were discussing today's game? It also doesn't really matter how quickly Nani got up but more how quickly he went down. As I said fair play to Webb for not falling for his antics.

Because the thread is on Howard Webb (clearly made by a bitter scouser) being favourable to United and on the basis of the last 3 games that's clearly a myth. And well done on ignoring my point on Anderson and picking up what you like...

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Because the thread is on Howard Webb (clearly made by a bitter scouser) being favourable to United and on the basis of the last 3 games that's clearly a myth. And well done on ignoring my point on Anderson and picking up what you like...

I wasn't aware I had to respond to every single word in your post. I can't remember the tackle all that well so I'm not in a position to say whether or not the booking was justified. Booking a player is nowhere near as significant as sending someone off or awarding a penalty though. It certainly didn't change the game.

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lol Its not Webb's job to make sure its a spectacle. Shouldn't make a difference to him if its the 1st or the 90th minute. As much as you may want to deny it fact is there was contact (minimal) and it was a penalty (however soft it was). So he got that decision right. Webb did not give United a 2nd penalty when Johnny Evans was assaulted' date=' so he was biased against Liverpool. He then correctly sent off Gerrard. So in my estimations he was more biased to Liverpool. Taking into account the league game this season he got all the decisions right. Looking at the game last season at OT he favoured both sides once (although I am still not fully convinced that it was not a penalty). [b']So according to my analysis he was been favouring Liverpool[/b].

He could have easily not given a red card, he should have not given Man. United any penalties. Your view point is any decision United had was a correct decision, and any decision Liverpool had wasn't a correct decision. This was not the way of things.

He had a bad game anyway, otherwise there wouldn't be any debate about his performance.

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He could have easily not given a red card' date=' he should have not given Man. United any penalties. Your view point is any decision United had was a correct decision, and any decision Liverpool had wasn't a correct decision. This was not the way of things.

He had a bad game anyway, otherwise there wouldn't be any debate about his performance.[/quote']

No, the only reason there is any debate is because Liverpool fans are bitter and can't accept that 'any contact that doesn't win the ball' is a foul.

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He could have easily not given a red card' date=' he should have not given Man. United any penalties. Your view point is any decision United had was a correct decision, and any decision Liverpool had wasn't a correct decision. This was not the way of things.

He had a bad game anyway, otherwise there wouldn't be any debate about his performance.[/quote']

There is debate about his performance as the decisions were debatable. It's obvious it's not clear cut by the fact that neutrals disagree. Gerrard had both feet off the ground and so wasn't in control. Definite red card and very similar to Tiote's yesterday. We've already been through the penalty but I believe Webb was right on both counts.

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No he didn't. Gerrard commiting a stupid tackle ruined the game as a contest.

What I don't get in this whole debate is how everyone is blaming Howard Webb. Think about what Webb sees. He sees Berbatov move past Agger. He sees Agger dangle a leg out in the direction of Berbatov. He sees Agger's leg make contact with Berbatov. He sees Berbatov fall to the ground. He does not see any replays. First up' date=' I thought it was a penalty. After a second look, the moment's hesitation that Berbatov made before tumbling to the ground became apparent. Webb does not get that luxury, and it's easy to see why he gave a penalty.

Any Liverpool fan (or non-Liverpool fan for that matter) who is blaming Webb for a bad decision/costing you the game/being a Man Utd fan is deluded, bitter and downright pathetic.[/quote']

Well said.

As I said earlier, in the FA Cup thread - despicable dive by Berbatov. No-one else can be blamed, bar him for simulation and as mentioned, possibly Agger for dangling the leg in a silly position where a foul was very possible.

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Re: Howard webb

No' date=' the only reason there is any debate is because Liverpool fans are bitter and can't accept that 'any contact that doesn't win the ball' is a foul.[/quote']

I am fully aware that refs have a difficult job to do, and accept that if a player has to be red carded for going off his feet then so be it (even if he wins the ball;)). However, they do make a rod for their own backs through inconsistency.

What I am talking about is player intent, and ref interpretation of the rules. You claim that it is 'bitter Liverpool Fans who can't accept that "any contact that doesn't win the ball" is a foul'.

Firstly, how many times do players make contact with one another without winning the ball and without any foul being given in a game. Pretty much every time someone has possession, right? But no-one's gonna call a foul, right?

Secondly, how do you rate Webb's handling of the WC Final, and the actual laws? Sending-off offences (according to FIFA) are Serious Foul Play, Violent Conduct, etc. None in that game, then...? Personally I thought the players were a collective disgrace in that game and Webb could justifiably according to the laws (and player intent) sent off a handful of them!

It is consistency of application of the laws that is required (all round) so that Pro's can perform to the refs' expectations and everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet.

To blame 'bitter' Scousers, or a ref for that matter, for a sport-wide problem misses the point, I feel.

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Re: Howard webb

No he didn't. Gerrard commiting a stupid tackle ruined the game as a contest.

Personally' date=' I don't think Gerrard getting sent off ruined the contest whatsoever. In fact, it was probably a better game once he got sent off.

Any Liverpool fan (or non-Liverpool fan for that matter) who is blaming Webb for a bad decision/costing you the game/being a Man Utd fan is deluded, bitter and downright pathetic.

We'll agree to disagree on this one. Ultimately Man U won 1-0 on the basis of a decision by the referee which in many people's eyes was incorrect. I was sitting with Man U fans (that's a whole different story and I should perhaps be truely ashamed for admitting that :P) at a very similar angle to that which Howard Webb had (admittedly a little higher). Having seen it live, I could from 50 yards away see the delayed reaction of Berbatov's simulation. Even several of the Man U fans around me (those who don't bear the hatred against the enemy that many fans from both sides harbour and are a little more moderate) were laughing how Berbatov had 'conned' the referee. Blaming Webb for being a Man U fan is pathetic/bitter I agree and I would hope most Liverpool fans who have done that have either done it as a kneejerk reaction after the match or tongue-in-cheek (as I did on the Liverpool thread). But blaming him for giving a bad decision and costing us the game is totally correct in my opinion. If that makes me or others who have stated that, deluded, bitter or downright pathetic, then sobeit. A 1-0 loss on the basis of a converted penalty that in my opinion was never a penalty (as well as the opinion of 4 of the 5 Man U fans who I went with when seeing it live and no doubt a large proportion of the neutral watching public) cost us the game.

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Re: Howard webb

I am fully aware that refs have a difficult job to do' date=' and accept that if a player has to be red carded for going off his feet then so be it (even if he wins the ball;)). However, they do make a rod for their own backs through inconsistency.

What I am talking about is player intent, and ref interpretation of the rules. You claim that it is 'bitter Liverpool Fans who can't accept that "any contact that doesn't win the ball" is a foul'.

Firstly, how many times do players make contact with one another without winning the ball and without any foul being given in a game. Pretty much every time someone has possession, right? But no-one's gonna call a foul, right?

Secondly, how do you rate Webb's handling of the WC Final, and the actual laws? Sending-off offences (according to FIFA) are Serious Foul Play, Violent Conduct, etc. None in that game, then...? Personally I thought the players were a collective disgrace in that game and Webb could justifiably according to the laws (and player intent) sent off a handful of them!

It is consistency of application of the laws that is required (all round) so that Pro's can perform to the refs' expectations and everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet.

To blame 'bitter' Scousers, or a ref for that matter, for a sport-wide problem misses the point, I feel.[/quote']

Firstly, I'm a Liverpool fan :P

That was a sarcastic post as many others are suggesting that us lot are being bitter about the decision which was clearly wrong. The penalty decision that is, not the sending off.

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Re: Howard webb

Let me guess. Webb was the reason as to why Liverpool have an inferior team compared to the top clubs.

Im also guessing he made Gerrard jump two footed into Carrick?

He's the reason United started the game with a one goal advantage. Which made quite a big difference since no other goals were scored.

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Re: Howard webb

Y

Look' date=' I'm not going to argue with you, going round in circles all the time. If you think that Howard Webb made a mistake, then fair enough. But if you genuinely believe that Webb made that decision because he supports United, or because he hates Liverpool, then you need help.

I'm with Andy on this one... (and I'm a Red).

As I see it the guy is in an impossible situation anymore (and the players need to realize this).

This WC Final reached more people than ever before. And the ratings on this one were going to set-up the media dollars spent on the next one. Most everyone should recognize this, because I can assure you that Blatter and his cronies who are lining their pockets certainly do.

You cannot tell me that Blatter or Platini or some other executive didn't impress upon Howard Webb before the WC Final that EVERYONE was hoping for a great game that came down to the wire. Or better put in referee-speak... "Don't have a hand in this game. Let em play. We want this Final to be about the players, NOT a referee's decision."

Plus, Webb comes across as a smart guy... He would have understood this anyway.

So then what happens... He gives the Dutch players an inch, and they take a friggin' mile.

So shame on him, despite being in a lose/lose situation.

So then after getting crushed by world-wide futbol media all summer long, the guy decides that from now on he isn't going to be swayed by the "importance" of the game. He's going to call EVERYTHING by the book regardless if it's a WC Final an FA Cup Final or United/Liverpool. Blatter, Platini, et. al. can shove-it if they think differently.

So United/Liverpool this past weekend...

Did none of those players watch the WC Final ? Did none of them understand how this guy and his calls were going to be affected by it in big games.

If they didn't they are morons. Helll I even expected it @ 8:30am sitting in NYC with a pint in my hand.

He HAS to call everything now. The last time he "let the players play" and gave them slack in the rope to do so, those same players lynched him up with it.

Screw "Captain" Gerrard for going in with 2 feet. (But as SmartDoc said we played well without him).

And screw Agger and that wanna-be thug Skrtel for giving Webb the opportunity for making that call.... because guess what... he's going to call it every time from now on. He has to.

I don't blame Webb. I blame the Liverpool players for being morons and not understanding the situation.

Because guess who DID understand the situation that I laid out above..? Ferguson & Berbatov.

Did Berba do his patented flop...? Of course. But the players (i.e. Agger) should have realized something like that was coming and never should have put themselves in a situation for the call to be made.

EDIT: I am not going to try to defend his previous calls for United in big games or against Liverpool. I am merely talking about the WC Final forward. The guy was going to be affected after getting royally screwed by the players in that one. IMO, these professional players should realize this. One set did... United. Meanwhile on Liverpool at least 2 or 3 didn't.

I was sitting with Man U fans (that's a whole different story and I should perhaps be truly ashamed for admitting that :P

We'll deal with you later... :D 10 lashings are probably in order.

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