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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Abject performance accentuated by the whole Mascherano saga. I can only hope that Hodgson had not planned to play this formation before Mascherano's withdrawal, because it was incredibly naive to play that 4-4-2 against Man C who obviously were not going to change their formation. Midfield got outnumbered time and time again and the front two barely got the service to into the game. Our left side was cringeworthy and we certainly need to sort that before the transfer window closes (if we can). Not taking anything away from Man C, who now have a squad capable of challenging in my opinion, but our players were just not at the races and the formation certainly didn't help. Disappointing day all round :(

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

As for Barca & Masch... If I was Liverpool if Barca dont make a proper bid I would just let Macherano rot.

Barcelona are idiots, they sell someone like Toure for that price and think they can buy Mascherano for 12mil? :confused:

They ended up looking pretty pathetic in the whole Fabregas saga, hopefully Liverpool wont cave in to these stupid bids.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Hope you lot don't mind but I thought I'd post my (slightly tipsy) opinions on you guys tonight. Feel free to disagree; I'm mainly basing it on tonight's game and extrapolating...

Reina - Couldn't have done any more. Despite this he's not quite looking the rock he has been in the past though. Did what was expected but that was it.

Johnson - Tonight showed exactly why I personally don't rate him. Defensively abject and Milner had him in his pocket.

Carragher - Watched the game and didn't notice him. Ergo, no mistakes but didn't stand out like he probably should.

Skrtel - Weird one. Didn't have a bad game on the whole but a few horrible errors/challenges. Johnson in the first 5 minutes for his booking and the penalty were both rash. On the whole he's too reckless and ill-disciplined to be dependable.

Agger - Ripped to shreds by Johnno. Should have played at CB.

Kuyt - Didn't do anything.

Lucas - Didn't act where it counted (ball watching for the first goal) and generally didn't contribute anything.

Gerrard - In the main didn't get any time or space. When he did his passing was superb. He's still the key man for you.

Jovanovic - Lightweight. Did well in and around the box but wasn't there often as Richards owned him tonight. Richards isn't that great.

N'Gog and Torres - Didn't link up at all and both evidently prefer working on their own. Torres still isn't anywhere near full fitness though.

Hodgson - Your 4 man midfield was dominated by our 5 man one. Fair decision to shake things up but it didn't pay off at all. Very good bloke though and you'd do well to stick with him :)

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Hope you lot don't mind but I thought I'd post my (slightly tipsy) opinions on you guys tonight. Feel free to disagree; I'm mainly basing it on tonight's game and extrapolating...

Reina - Couldn't have done any more. Despite this he's not quite looking the rock he has been in the past though. Did what was expected but that was it.

Johnson - Tonight showed exactly why I personally don't rate him. Defensively abject and Milner had him in his pocket.

Carragher - Watched the game and didn't notice him. Ergo' date=' no mistakes but didn't stand out like he probably should.

[b']Skrtel[/b] - Weird one. Didn't have a bad game on the whole but a few horrible errors/challenges. Johnson in the first 5 minutes for his booking and the penalty were both rash. On the whole he's too reckless and ill-disciplined to be dependable.

Agger - Ripped to shreds by Johnno. Should have played at CB.

Kuyt - Didn't do anything.

Lucas - Didn't act where it counted (ball watching for the first goal) and generally didn't contribute anything.

Gerrard - In the main didn't get any time or space. When he did his passing was superb. He's still the key man for you.

Jovanovic - Lightweight. Did well in and around the box but wasn't there often as Richards owned him tonight. Richards isn't that great.

N'Gog and Torres - Didn't link up at all and both evidently prefer working on their own. Torres still isn't anywhere near full fitness though.

Hodgson - Your 4 man midfield was dominated by our 5 man one. Fair decision to shake things up but it didn't pay off at all. Very good bloke though and you'd do well to stick with him :)

But he didn't shake things up. :confused: Nothing changed in the second half whatsoever. When things did change, it was too late anyway - changes should have been made at half-time.

And Gerrard was more to blame for the first goal. The little ball through to Milner from Johnson (I think) was obvious and Gerrard should have spotted it. He was too slow to, and by the time he realised, it was too late. Cut off the ball to Milner, that in turn cuts off the pull back to Barry and eliminates the goal threat.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

But he didn't shake things up. :confused: Nothing changed in the second half whatsoever. When things did change' date=' it was too late anyway - changes should have been made at half-time.[/quote']

I meant from the Rafa era. He'd have gone 451 every day of the week. Today it might perhaps have paid off.

And Gerrard was more to blame for the first goal. The little ball through to Milner from Johnson (I think) was obvious and Gerrard should have spotted it. He was too slow to, and by the time he realised, it was too late. Cut off the ball to Milner, that in turn cuts off the pull back to Barry and eliminates the goal threat.

Possibly though watching replays Lucas was doing nothing. Wasn't marking anyone and wasn't trying to get involved in play. Compare to City's midfield where De Jong, Barry and even Milner were clearing out of the box.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I meant from the Rafa era. He'd have gone 451 every day of the week. Today it might perhaps have paid off..

Which barring last season for various reasons, has always pretty much paid off in these games.

We dont have the personel atm to play 4-4-2 against City away and get a win.

It was obvious the second the lineups where shown we was going to get dominated in midfield.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Which barring last season for various reasons' date=' has always pretty much paid off in these games.

We dont have the personel atm to play 4-4-2 against City away and get a win.

It was obvious the second the lineups where shown we was going to get dominated in midfield.[/quote']

Even worse than the naivety to line up like that was the stubbornness to persist with it as long as they did, when it was so apparent Liverpool were being overrun and exposed.

At least you've got an easy game this weekend to recover. :rolleyes:

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Even worse than the naivety to line up like that was the stubbornness to persist with it as long as they did' date=' when it was so apparent Liverpool were being overrun and exposed.

At least you've got an easy game this weekend to recover. :rolleyes:[/quote']

I'm going to be honest. If we perform against West Brom like we did today, then even they wouldn't be a easy game.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I'm going to be honest. If we perform against West Brom like we did today' date=' then even they wouldn't be a easy game.[/quote']

I actually said to my lass after about an hour that I'd fancy us to trouble a Liverpool side playing with that shape and personnel, was only half joking. Though I'd be amazed if Roy played that system again, even against someone as relatively weak as the Albion.

Edit: Not forgetting the fact that Liverpool always, always destroy us.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

on reflection tonight showed us why the likes of redknapp and gray will never be managers - stuff like 'gerrard's best position is a CM' (but bizzarely has won player of the year as an RM and AM and nearly won the title as an AM), liverpool need to ditch 4-2-3-1 and a few digs from the slaphead at rafa for not setting up that way (there's a **** good reason why) and the 'torres needs a strike partner' (although torres wasnt fully fit and i dont expect him to be until the birmingham game at least)

to put it bluntly, this is why i never watch sky's 'expert analysis' - the only thing i regret is not watching the postgame show as it would have been funny to see gray try to avoid criticising things that he said the previous manager should do. ah well, onwards and upwards, lets hope roy learns his lesson, god forbid he be stubborn at times, he could start by dropping carra, putting aurelio or insua in at LB and give the agger-skrtel partnership a go (as well as not giving carra a new deal)

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

As for Barca & Masch... If I was Liverpool if Barca dont make a proper bid I would just let Macherano rot.

Barcelona are idiots' date=' they sell someone like Toure for that price and think they can buy Mascherano for 12mil? :confused:

They ended up looking pretty pathetic in the whole Fabregas saga, hopefully Liverpool wont cave in to these stupid bids.[/quote']

according to goal the first bid barca made was 18.8mill and hleb which imo is a good deal for us. hleb would be a decent player for us

but apparently we are holding out for 24.5mill cash.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

according to goal the first bid barca made was 18.8mill and hleb which imo is a good deal for us. hleb would be a decent player for us

but apparently we are holding out for 24.5mill cash.

The bid the other day was 12mil though.

If we rejected 18.8mil and Hleb why would we accept 12mil cash? plus I would never go by anything goal.com says anyways.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

More annoyed I guess as Mascherano is up there with anyone atm as my current LFC fav players.

I have anothing against Masch for wanting to move to a diff club / country I just hope he doesn't do it the wrong way and shows some loyalty like Fabregas has done with Arsenal.

The club have told him and every other club hes more than welcome to move on as long as its a realistic bid.

Burs - I honestly think Carra will get a new deal and will be a regular for this season and I still dont think Skirtel is our future CB, least I hope not.

I really rate a fully fit Agger (at CB tho) and think we need to find a 'fast' partner for him our lack of pace really lets us down atm.

As much as I like Kuyt I also think we need a tricky, pacey winger if we are ever going to progress.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

More annoyed I guess as Mascherano is up there with anyone atm as my current LFC fav players.

I have anothing against Masch for wanting to move to a diff club / country I just hope he doesn't do it the wrong way and shows some loyalty like Fabregas has done with Arsenal.

The club have told him and every other club hes more than welcome to move on as long as its a realistic bid.

Burs - I honestly think Carra will get a new deal and will be a regular for this season and I still dont think Skirtel is our future CB' date=' least I hope not.

I really rate a fully fit Agger (at CB tho) and think we need to find a 'fast' partner for him our lack of pace really lets us down atm.

As much as I like Kuyt I also think we need a tricky, pacey winger if we are ever going to progress.[/quote']

Problem is Nells, if reports are to believed (and I have to admit I have no reason to doubt them as it wasn't just the putrid sky media reporting it) that he's already shown the lack of respect. Hodgson's response to 'where is Mascherano?' said it all yesterday. It's clear to me that he was in the initial starting line-up for yesterday and I would suggest the team had been training with him in the side all week only for a last minute decision from him not to play - that's the way I read the situation yesterday and it's no wonder we looked like lost sheep with no cohesion at times if it was indeed the case. Like you, I don't begrudge him a move, but even he should have been insulted by the Barce and Inter offers so far. Is he really worth less than Yaya Toure, Carrick, Mikel, etc etc. Personally, if I was in his shoes, I would have found the fee offered derogatory and it would have sent a message in my mind that the buying club are simply looking for a profit and don't value me so much.

Burs reflection pretty much sums up my feelings (particularly on the so called expert pundits and Richard 'Scholes is the favourite for player of the year' Keys) and I can only hope Hodgson learns from yesterday's harrowing experience. 4-4-2 with Kuyt and Jovanovic as the wingers is never going to work. Totally agree we need some pacy wingers and without them I can't see us finishing higher than we did last season. Teams set-up solidly all too easily manage to block us out unless we get a piece of magic from Torres or Gerrard (and hopefully Cole this year). We're too one-dimensional and teams know what to expect.

Agger could quite easily have been already amongst the best centre-backs in the world, the only thing that has held him back is the lack of a CB to complement his abilities. Carragher has lost a yard of pace too many in my opinion and Skrtel still has much to learn about the nuances of the game. Playing with either one of them (coupled with some untimely injuries) has held him back. Playing him at LB is just foolhardy and makes him look less of a player.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I'd happily drive Mascherano to either Barcelona and Inter if he wants to go, but only if we got that £25m evaluation and if we get a decent enough replacement lined up, but who!?

Also, what do you guys think of Kuyt? I know he always gives it his best which is what i like to see, but from what i saw last night his first touch is awful, would he be another you'd welcome to leave? and 4-4-2 has got to go! But what should take its place? and if Benitez wants Kuyt, and gets him, who would we get?

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

MASCHERANO:

Is it possible to personally loathe one of your favorite futbollers... apparently so.

This is just juvenile stuff that he is pulling. Career suicide... Maybe not for his move out of Liverpool, but for the subsequent moves & salaries after all this is finished.

I have no problem with a player or any business person holding out for more salary, but to think that you can hold a club/company hostage, just to push for a move out of the club goes WAY beyond any general business practices.

Regardless how great a player he is, clubs in the future simply won't pay-up for "pleasure" of having to deal with a guy like this in their clubhouse. This is Latrell Sprewell & Stephon Marbury (NBA references) territory.

BARCA:

I said yesterday that Barcelona simply don't have the resources today to make a proper bid on Mascherano (or any other high ticket player). They simply don't this Summer. Even the David Villa purchase was so shady that they swept the financing of it under the rug of the previous regime and then introduced the new presidential regime the very next week.:rolleyes:

Anyway... I thought about it more this morning and there is one obvious way that they could get the additional assets over the next week : Finish any loan deal for Ibrahimović. That alone would free up £10-12M in cash that would have been paid to Ibrahimović in salary. They turn around and take that salary and increase their bid for Mascherano to something north of £20M. You would think that they take that additional £10-12M and make an increased Fabregas bid, but unfortunately even that extra dozen Million doesn't get them to a proper valuation for Fabregas.

So... IMO that means that a loan deal for Ibrahimović needs to be finalized before any realistic offer for Mascherano can be tabled. Based on that, this Mascherano-situation could be going on right-up until the transfer deadline: the span of 2 more matches.

I guess there is also one more option for Barca to free up money.... Sell someone this week that they don't want to. I am not talking Hleb. I am talking guys like Keita or Gaby Milito or Maxwell. Or even one of the kids.

INTER:

I still think that this is the only club on the planet right now that today can make a realistic bid for Mascherano.

.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Regardless how great a player he is' date=' clubs in the future simply won't pay-up for "pleasure" of having to deal with a guy like this in their clubhouse.

[/quote']

Although I agree 100% with your sentiments...the opposite does happen

Just look at Anelka over the years - and now we have N'Zogbia and Ben Arfa doing similar

And Jelavic joining Rangers

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I'd happily drive Mascherano to either Barcelona and Inter if he wants to go' date=' but only if we got that £25m evaluation and[b'] if we get a decent enough replacement lined up, but who[/b]!?
Meireles to England. Apparently Liverpool.

If DerbyPower is to be believed (I hope he's right)' date=' we're getting Meireles so the way I see it is that Hodgson wants to replace Masch with Poulsen (despite denying this) and Aquilani with Meireles. IMO we could do better but I think our squad would be strong enough with Meireles and Poulsen.

About our CB problem:

[b']Carra[/b]: I don't really have anything to add to what others have said. Needs be dropped to the bench but I don't think Hodgson has the cojones to do this.

Skrtel: In a way, sad to see him sign a new contract. He can't time his tackles at all and is very inconsistent. I would've sold him instead of offering a new contract.

Agger: One of the best CBs in the premier league. Our defence line should be built around him and not use him in his secondary position... At least with Aurelio in the squad.

Kyrgiakos: Good backup and has a very good attitude. I like him alot and I hope he can stay as a squad player for us for the next season or so. I read from Goal.com (original source Corriere dello sport) that Juve are interested in him

Wilson & Ayala: The reason why we shouldn't buy new CBs before selling any of them. I want to see them play and they need 1st team game time and they won't get to play even in the cup games if we buy a new CB

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Hodgson got his whole game plan completely wrong and then stuck to it, not sure if he was expecting City to play without Johnson and Milner out wide and play Silva more narrow like against Spurs but it was game over from the second they had Richards, Milner and Johnson running at Agger and Jovanovic.

Obviously Kuyt and Jovanovic can play out wide, but they are still attackers and having them out wide only works when you have Mascherano covering the full backs.

As for Mascherano not wanting to live in England anymore, personally I think he should just be a man and admit he wants to play for Barca. He could send 4 years in England and be set for the rest of his life to live somewhere happily.

You could see the difference without him. It was obvious with him at Arsenal even at 10men we looked like we were capable of winning. Without him against City we didn't look like we could win even with 12 men.

The only way is up now though and I we need to score a load of goals in Turkey and against West Brom.

P.S. I think N'Gog looked good and with time him and Torres could work

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

AQUILANI

C_3_Media_1120950_immagine_l.jpg

Absolutely LOVE the quote from Juve's medical staff when asked about his health:

"Sta bene, ha solo bisogno di fiducia"

"IT's GOOD, HE JUST NEEDS CONFIDENCE..."

or translated differently

HE's NO WORSE OFF THAN ANY OTHER CRIPPLED SERIE A PLAYER.

DON'T WORRY, WE'LL BE ABLE TO BLOOD DOPE & JUICE HIM UP ENOUGH

TO WHERE HE CAN PHYSICALLY PERFORM....

BUT WE'RE NO MIRACLE WORKERS....

THIS GUY IS A COMPLETE FRAGILE HEADCASE

AND IN NEED OF SOME SERIOUS PSYCHOLOGICAL HELP.

KYRGIAKOS

Overpay for the guy a year ago for £2M and you have the chance to possibly sell him 12 months later for £3-4M. I totally rate the guy versus certain types of competition and fully recognize what he brings to the team, but if you can get £3-4M for him, I think you have to jump at the chance to make that deal happen ASAP. Who says simply having the term "Liverpool FC" on your C/V doesn't increase your sell-on value. Hopefully we'll experience something similar next Summer with £2.3M Brad Jones.;)

There's still plenty of time left in the Transfer window this summer to get other players/defenders in.

.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

reports of a swap deal David Trezeguet and Sotiris Kyrgiakos

don't know who would be getting the better deal tbh

Goal.com said that David Trezeguet could join us on loan. :P

(http://www.goal.com/en/news/11/transfer-zone/2010/08/23/2083865/juventus-striker-david-trezeguet-linked-with-liverpool-loan-move-?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

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