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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Quite the pessimist aren't you?

The fact that this is the first time he's been playing regularly since he came to the premier league without getting injured for 4 or 5 months and he's starting to score goals has people genuinely believing he may come good after all. Besides I don't think being tagged as a 3rd choice striker means anyone thinks he's messi at all.

Seen something that says Zenit are after Salah now and are prepared to bid twice as much as us.

Pessimism no it is all based upon what I have seen and look at his record he Dont score goals simple as. He don't hold the ball up, his movement is well below the level required and to me offers little to any side. Score goals have you checked his record sincehe came to England it is woeful.

Said it before we bought him and say it again now he ain't good enough IMO for Liverpool, everybody else keeps saying he needs to play centrally he will never get any sort if run as a CF for Liverpool because he is way below the standard required.

Best thing all round would be a parting of the ways IMO he will never be good enough to hold down a regular CF spot for Liverpool and better for him to go elsewhere where those opportunities may be presented to him, if we can get 8m or so to boot then all the better as we can put that to use towards players who may be more integral to Liverpool going forward.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Pessimism no it is all based upon what I have seen and look at his record he Dont score goals simple as. He don't hold the ball up' date=' his movement is well below the level required and to me offers little to any side. Score goals have you checked his record sincehe came to England it is woeful.

Said it before we bought him and say it again now he ain't good enough IMO for Liverpool, everybody else keeps saying he needs to play centrally he will never get any sort if run as a CF for Liverpool because he is way below the standard required.

Best thing all round would be a parting of the ways IMO he will never be good enough to hold down a regular CF spot for Liverpool and better for him to go elsewhere where those opportunities may be presented to him, if we can get 8m or so to boot then all the better as we can put that to use towards players who may be more integral to Liverpool going forward.[/quote']

He wasn't good enough when you saw him. Things might have changed.

Give him a fresh start, think of him as a new purchase. A new purchase might work out or not but regardless of that is always given a clean slate.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

He wasn't good enough when you saw him. Things might have changed.

Give him a fresh start' date=' think of him as a new purchase. A new purchase might work out or not but regardless of that is always given a clean slate.[/quote']

I have seen plenty of him at all of his clubs.

IMO he aint good enough sorry what are we supposed to just constantly embrace mediocrity or something.....I think not. I want Liverpool to progress to the levels we used to be at Borini ain't a good enough player to form part of that future.

If somebody ain't good enough, you find somebody else harsh reality but that is the way it is. Borini ain't a fresh purchase we all know what he can and cannot do.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I have seen plenty of him at all of his clubs.

IMO he aint good enough sorry what are we supposed to just constantly embrace mediocrity or something.....I think not. I want Liverpool to progress to the levels we used to be at Borini ain't a good enough player to form part of that future.

If somebody ain't good enough' date=' you find somebody else harsh reality but that is the way it is. Borini ain't a fresh purchase we all know what he can and cannot do.[/quote']

Think you're being a bit harsh. He's 22, obviously isn't going to walk into the first team. He's the type of backup striker you have. Someone who can score but has potential. I don't think he should be the only backup striker but there is nothing wrong with having him in the squad.

He started 5 games for us, came on as a sub 8 times, alongside getting two big injuries. Scored one goal, but got unlucky quite a few times (Mignolet made about 3 excellent saves against him vs Sunderland). He's scored in big games for Sunderland coming off the bench as well.

Think its perfect to have Suarez, Sturridge with *new striker* and Borini as back up. Can't have 4 strikers at the same level as Sturridge or something. Just doesn't work that way.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Think you're being a bit harsh. He's 22' date=' obviously isn't going to walk into the first team. He's the type of backup striker you have. Someone who can score but has potential. I don't think he should be the only backup striker but there is nothing wrong with having him in the squad.

He started 5 games for us, came on as a sub 8 times, alongside getting two big injuries. Scored one goal, but got unlucky quite a few times (Mignolet made about 3 excellent saves against him vs Sunderland). He's scored in big games for Sunderland coming off the bench as well.

Think its perfect to have Suarez, Sturridge with *new striker* and Borini as back up. Can't have 4 strikers at the same level as Sturridge or something. Just doesn't work that way.[/quote']

I don't think we need four strikers if we are playing with one up top for instance, but depends how he wants to play. If you have three strikers you Definetley want the 3rd striker to be of a higher calibre than Borini if you have serious ambitions of reaching the top.

What is the point if we play with one up top of Borini hanging around and getting the odd 20 mins in cup competitions or the like, not good for him and not good for us either. If you are a player of any ambition who wants to be 4th choice striker just pick up your wages and not play?? To his credit I thin Borini ain't like that he has a good charachter and wants to play, earn his way I don't see him being talented enough to achieve that regularly at Lverpool.

You keep saying someone who can score......except he don't his record is very undaunting to say the least.

Just my opinion, others can disagree but I don't see Fabio having any real imprint on Liverpool and it's future.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

We play with two up top though when Sturridge and Suarez are fit. Don't know if Rodgers is looking at something different' date=' but that is when we seem most dangerous.[/quote']

We look more dangerous but we also look a lot more open as well and easier to score against.

In terms of possession, control if the game etc I think we work best in the 4-2-3-1 and both Suarez and Sturridge are ideally suited to that lone striker role, but both are that good that you can't really think about leaving one out.

Difficult choice for Brendon, be interesting with Sturridge impending return to see how he goes will he sacrifice a bit more control of games for the greater threat although impacting us defensively etc...

That is what he gets paid his money for anyway :)

If we make signings this window could be even more interesting to see what he does instinctively I think he wants five in the middle at all times if he can help it, but he has shown he is not afraid to change things.

Agger out for a month as well that has been confirmed.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I don't think we need four strikers if we are playing with one up top for instance' date=' but depends how he wants to play. If you have three strikers you Definetley want the 3rd striker to be of a higher calibre than Borini if you have serious ambitions of reaching the top.

[b']What is the point if we play with one up top of Borini hanging around and getting the odd 20 mins in cup competitions or the like, not good for him and not good for us either. If you are a player of any ambition who wants to be 4th choice striker just pick up your wages and not play??[/b] To his credit I thin Borini ain't like that he has a good charachter and wants to play, earn his way I don't see him being talented enough to achieve that regularly at Lverpool.

You keep saying someone who can score......except he don't his record is very undaunting to say the least.

Just my opinion, others can disagree but I don't see Fabio having any real imprint on Liverpool and it's future.

So what do you think the club should do then? If youre saying nobody wants to be a back up striker then does that mean we shouldnt have one at all or not him specifically? Considering we usually only play with 1 up front, I dont think we could realistically get a good CF to come in as 3rd choice behind Suarez AND sturridge. Borini is young, hardworking, does have a little bit of ability even though we havent seen much of it at Liverpool. I think it would be good to have him learning from Suarez so he can be played if Suarez and Sturridge are injured. Ideally, we could get someone like Remy but I dont think we're that good that we can have quality like that as 3rd choice. So in that respect, I wouldnt mind seeing Borini as our 3rd choice CF. He isnt the best in the world but he's young and could be a decent option when we have injuries.

I dont think Rodgers likes playing two up top but when you have suarez and sturridge you cant be leaving them out. If Rodgers was a 442 man who always wanted 2 up front then I'd be worried about having Borini as 3rd choice however I suspect if Suarez or Sturridge getvinjured he'll revert to 433/4231.

Thats my take on it anyway and I dont think Aspas is good enough really but I doubt he'll be here long.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Gotta agree there, it’s a tad harsh to judge the lad if you are doing so purely on his Liverpool game time.

Hi stats would suggest he has something to offer.

Chelsea reserves

10 goals in 11

Chelsea

0 goals in 8

Swansea Loan

6 goals in 12

Roma

10 goals in 26

Liverpool

2 goals in 20

Sunderland Loan

3 goals in 18

Bearing in mind he predominantly hasn’t played games for 90 minutes – much less in many cases – coupled with his documented injuries, I don’t think 21 senior goals from 84 games is a bad return for the lad if he is a third or fourth choice striker for us.

I’m not saying he’s a world beater, he seems short of confidence if you ask me and a quiet unassuming lad by all accounts, but at 22yrs old I think he’s worth keeping hold of.

That said, he needs minutes and the loan system really could be the makings of him.

Heres a little something I found from EPLindex from back in July 12, 2012, which takes in all games not just senior apps :-

Over the course of his short career, Borini has made 90 appearances in all competitions and has scored 39 goals, equating to a goal return of 0.43 goals per game or more specifically, a goal every 157 minutes. The hype around the young Italian is well founded, as his high goal return places him in the same goal scoring echelon as the likes of Edinson Cavani (0.45), Wayne Rooney (0.44), Robin van Persie (0.42) and Spanish legend Raul (0.42).

Yet, Borini’s goal scoring proficiency is distorted by way of a high substitute (averaging a low 10 minutes per game) count, which is also counteracted by a high number of appearances and goals in less competitive competitions such as the Premier Reserve League where he scored 17 goals in 21 games and youth level international games.

To ascertain a more accurate illustration of Borini’s performance data, I reduced his appearances and goals to returns from the Premier League, League Cup, FA Cup, nPower Championship, Serie A and Copa Italia. In these competitions, Borini returned 16 goals from 45 appearances, at a rate of a goal every 0.36 games. The change in performance is well worth noting once the less competitive performances are removed. The Italian’s goal return reduced from 0.43 to 0.36 goals per game and goals per minutes reduced from a goal every 157 minutes to every 175 minutes, i.e. he was taking more games and minutes – as expected – to score each goal.

With such a small career dataset available due to his limited appearances, it is difficult to ascertain with any certainty how the Roma forward will develop, but at 21 years of age, the following strikers had these respective scoring rates (converted into “Premier League currency” using a discount factor developed by The Tomkins Times):

• Ajax’s Luis Suárez: 0.49 goals per game, a goal every 144 minutes.

• Atlético Madrid’s Fernando Torres: 0.48 goals per game, a goal every 169 minutes.

• Manchester United’s Wayne Rooney: 0.43 goals per game, a goal every 195 minutes.

• Chelsea’s (& also Bolton’s) Daniel Sturridge: 0.36 goals per game, a goal every 145 minutes.

• Manchester United’s Danny Welbeck: 0.30 goals per game, a goal every 209 minutes.

• Stuttgart’s Mario Gomez: 0.22 goals per game, a goal every 173 minutes.

• Palermo’s Edinson Cavani: 0.16 goals per game, a goal every 373 minutes.

As ‘goals per game’ is easily distorted by substitute appearances and due to the fact that a “game” can range anywhere between 1 and 90 minutes, I prefer minutes per goal as a more accurate measure to compare goal scorers. In terms of goals per minutes, Fabio Borini outperforms Edinson Cavani, Danny Welbeck and Wayne Rooney as 21-year-old goal scorers, whilst he is roughly on par with Mario Gomez (173 minutes) and 6 minutes short of Fernando Torres.

Interesting and would suggest that, regardless of what he has done in the 18 months since, he’s worth a gamble surely?

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Anyone know when Enrique is back? Supposed to be late January but no signs of him coming back yet. Will be massive when he comes back was a brilliant outlet for us on the left.

According to PhysioRoom; Sturridge, Enrique, Allen and Sakho are set to return this month. No news on Flanagan yet but if we get him back at a similar time will be a boost for us to get so many key players back for the home stretch.

Don't think Agger is a blow in all honesty, not had a good match yet this season and Sakho's imminent return makes it better. Kelly is also fine apparently so hopefully his fitness will be back for this half of the season.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Just wondering if we were to have Enrique' date=' Flanagan and Johnson all fit would anyone opt for Enrique and Flanagan to start leaving Johnson on the bench?[/quote']

A fully fit and 'in form' Johnson would always play, but he is wayyyyyyyy below par this season so far so a rest / being dropped might do him some good.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Just wondering if we were to have Enrique' date=' Flanagan and Johnson all fit would anyone opt for Enrique and Flanagan to start leaving Johnson on the bench?[/quote']

Would start Enrique and Flanagan, Johnson hasn't looked fit since he came back from injury and he's been absolutely dreadful this season, when he's fit and on form he's no doubt our best right-back, could only think a break would do him good.

Would opt for Kelly over Flanagan but Kelly's fitness is a mystery.

As for Borini still far too early to be shipping him out, another loan spell would do him good but he's improving week in week out, we all wanted Flanagan out just a few months ago yet he's improved dramatically, if he starts to adapt to the physicality of the league (Which he seems to be), he doesn't start often enough but when he does most of my Sunderland mates have said he's their only dangerous output and he's scored massive goals for them. If we get an offer over 10 Million i'd take it but he's young and adapting, needs time, needs games and I reckon he'd be good back-up, if we end up back in Europe we'll need him unless we invested massively in Summer.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Lucas looks like Nicholas Cage there... Rafael' date=' Suarez, Coutinho, Lucas and Zaba.... Who are the other three? I'm guessing the one in the hat is Fabio and far left looks like Aspas, but who's the guy second from right?[/quote']

I think Rafael is in the hat? I have no idea they both look so similar. Yeah left is Aspas and Fernandinho beside Zabaleta.

Only the best CM in the Premier League!

Fernandinho :)

It took me a while to work out who it was, if it wasn't for Zabaleta I don't think I would've guessed. He looks really different here.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I thought you were talking about Yaya Toure then :P

Doesn't look like Fernandinho' date=' I didn't think his skin tone was that dark, I did think it was Richards at first, but he is much more bulkier than that![/quote']

I think that's the lighting.

Never realised how much he looked like Paulo Wanchope.

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