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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/153442-boss-expects-double-bonus-for-gerrard

It seems clear Rodgers trying to make Gerrard as the deepest of the midfield 3 as right now he doesn't have the capability to run like Henderson anymore and the 2 CM infront of the deeper midfield should be energetic and mobile like Allen and Henderson has done when Gerrard get injury. We need an upgrade for Allen if Gerrard converted into that 'regista' role

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Gerrard was awful today in that role in the first half. Dropped points are on Rodgers. Wrong approach to the game.

Other than that, yet another soft pen for Liverpool...

P.S.: another game, another howler from Mignolet. What happened to him? If this was Hart, everybody's be taking the pee and calling for his head.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

He's a good player. Ideal for the pressing game we have when we play 3 in midfield and can play the DM role which we need. Obviously there have been issues with his attitude but with him becoming a parent I think he's started to sort himself out. A couple years ago he was considered one of the best young talents in Europe. I think a year in the wilderness of Russia may have given him a little perspective. Plus Rodgers is a great man-manager.

Wouldnt want Bertrand anywhere near the club' date=' he's so average. Cissoko's not great but I'd rather we set our sights higher than Bertrand if we're trying to get top 4. He's no way near good enough. Aston Villa is a good club for him imo[/quote']

That said, so was Ravel Morrison, and look at what he's turned out to be. M'Vila might have quite a bit of talent, but discipline is most definitely his Achilles' heel. And as proven, a footballer is nothing without that basic discipline. The only reason Rennes got rid of him was because he got himself in a whole load of trouble, hence the sudden cooling of interest from the PL teams.

Plus, Rubin, like all the Scandinavian teams, are full of mercenaries, so the only thing M'Vila will be gaining is some big bucks.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Gerrard was awful today in that role in the first half. Dropped points are on Rodgers. Wrong approach to the game.

Other than that' date=' yet another soft pen for Liverpool...[/quote']

nothing soft about it, it was a Definete penalty.

playing for the penalty yep most certainly did he dive no, Guzan fell into the trap and in my eyes that was clever play.

Apart from that we were dreadful and Villa should have been out of sight by half time getting out the firs half one down was a result as they took us to pieces in that half.

Tactics were all wrong can't be bothered to write a full detailed report on why right now but probably will do tomorrow :)

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Gerrard was awful today in that role in the first half. Dropped points are on Rodgers. Wrong approach to the game.

Other than that' date=' yet another soft pen for Liverpool...[/quote']

Awfully quiet on here today, where was everyone? :P

Agree with the quoted post - I don't understand why Rodgers is still playing Gerrard so deep; it clearly doesn't suit him at all and it definitely hindered the team in the first half. I think I saw earlier that we have conceded 5 goals in the three halves of football he has played in that role. Playing him in a deeper role alongside Lucas is a completely different scenario to him playing there by himself. With Lucas beside him he is decent but from what we saw in the second half - he is still most effective further up the pitch.

The team selection was totally wrong today. Just like when we lost to Hull a few weeks backs. I understand that Suarez and Sturridge have to start and that means someone has to be left out elsewhere. Lucas was that player today and I think it cost us the three points. Sterling has been in good form recently but I would have sacrificed him today, instead of Lucas. We were overrun in the midfield which wasn't really surprising given that only Henderson and an aging Gerrard where in there for us. El Ahmadi, Westwood and Delph were always going to win that battle. Bring in Lucas and our whole game changes. Such a drastic improvement. It was evident after about 20 minutes that the formation we were using wasn't working and it took Rodgers too long to change it. It didn't help that we had our two worst centre backs starting but, as this was due to injury, I can't blame Rodgers for that.

Cissokho was out of his depth today. He gave the ball away a lot and any time he did get up the pitch he seemed to panic and pass the ball behind him. And what was he doing with that throw in at the end? We could have definitely had another attack if he hadn't taken so long to throw the ball. The sooner we get Enrique back the better. Saying that, I think both our starting fullbacks (Enrique and Johnson) are pretty sub par and I'm not sure if Kelly or Flanagan would do any better. Given Johnson's age we'll have to start looking at replacements soon anyway.

Finally, I don't think it was a penalty as it was very soft, but you do see those given from time to time so I don't think we deserve too much stick for it. Either way, it felt like a loss tonight and even though we're a point better off than the corresponding fixture last season, I think we all know that we had to win tonight.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

nothing soft about it' date=' it was a Definete penalty.

playing for the penalty yep most certainly did he dive no, Guzan fell into the trap and in my eyes that was clever play.[/quote']

Please ray. If that was given against you, say in a game against United and Young would be the culprit, you'd be saying all kinds of things and most certainly not be talking about a "definite pen" and "clever play"'

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Since I edited it late' date=' I'll post it up separately.

P.S.: another game, another howler from Mignolet. What happened to him? If this was Hart, everybody's be taking the pee and calling for his head.[/quote']

Im not sure whats going on tbh. Been great most of the season and then lately he has been letting in some howlers. Hopefully he sorts himself out

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Indeed' date=' M'Vila is the closest thing to a black Joey Barton. Complete liability. But Bertrand? Liverpool have enough cover for the full-back spots, no need for an extra one.[/quote']
Instead of telling me that it's a "complete fail"' date=' please attempt to tell me what might be wrong? Might be more useful.

Cheers.[/quote']

Fine. If i must :(:(

M'Vila is NOWHERE near as bad as Joey Barton and has the potential to be world class. He hasnt done anything for a while as well hence me thinking he may have matured with him being a father possibly being an influence.

And we dont have fullbacks let alone cover. All our fullbacks have been awful or injured. We need another. Not Bertrand but we need another one definitely.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

He's a good player. Ideal for the pressing game we have when we play 3 in midfield and can play the DM role which we need. Obviously there have been issues with his attitude but with him becoming a parent I think he's started to sort himself out. A couple years ago he was considered one of the best young talents in Europe. I think a year in the wilderness of Russia may have given him a little perspective. Plus Rodgers is a great man-manager.

Wouldnt want Bertrand anywhere near the club' date=' he's so average. Cissoko's not great but I'd rather we set our sights higher than Bertrand if we're trying to get top 4. He's no way near good enough. Aston Villa is a good club for him imo[/quote']

But you said yourself you havent seen him nor know what he plays like?

Sky Italy saying us and Napoli have had loan bids for m'vila rejected and we'll move to discussions about a permanent deal. Not gonna lie' date=' never seen him play but the deal would excite me. He SOUNDS like just what we need. Anyone know who he plays like?[/quote']

Did a bit of searching around and the general consensus is he runs around like a headless chicken doing what he wants, not what the team/manager whats him to do.

He does have the highest 'steal' rate in the league whatever that is (tackles?) and his passing completion is 86%.

If we get a loan deal, fine, but im absolutely not happy with paying his 16.6M release clause nor the 12M Rubin want to recoup that they paid for him. To me it looks like they want him off the books.

IMO, Bertand would of been ideal. Free, cheap and no worries if we dont play him when everyone else gets back.He did alright today too, just struggled with Sterlings pace but who doesnt. Cissokho was terrible.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Fine. If i must :(:(

M'Vila is NOWHERE near as bad as Joey Barton and has the potential to be world class. He hasnt done anything for a while as well hence me thinking he may have matured with him being a father possibly being an influence.

And we dont have fullbacks let alone cover. All our fullbacks have been awful or injured. We need another. Not Bertrand but we need another one definitely.

The fact that you've never seen him play would say enough. Even if you search him on google, you'll get the same response everywhere: talented, but highly irresponsible. The fact that he's pretty much banned for life from the French national selection says about enough. And by comparing him with Joey, I was merely stating that both have the tendency to act unprofessionally.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I lied, the missus has put Celeb BB on and I'd rather slit my wrists than watch that rubbish so here goes....

Rodgers for me has to take the blame today although obviously nearly all the players were below par he set us up in a tactical framework that was destined to fail from the start. Discussing it here midweek obviously Sturridge has to play but how does he get incorporated into the side without leaving the side looking disjointed and fragile, that was the problem today was a perfect example of how not to do it. :o

Going 4-4-2 against a three in the middle in the PL is asking for trouble, I personally have no problem with it but you can't play Gerrard deep in a 4-4-2 he was bad today but you are asking to much of him and Hendo and they just got passed round, it is even more apparent when you play two wingers in Coutinho and Sterling who clearly want to go forward. Sterling does his fair share of tracking back but Coutinho ain't interested in this part of the game.

In a 4-3-3 you can get away with your wingers not doing to much tweaking back but within the framework of a 4-4-2 it leaves you so exposed. If you are to lay 4-4-2 I think we have to do so with a Henderson figure in one of the wide positions as he will tuck in and has the defensive discipline required.

The changes came to late everybody could see what was happening and. Think maybe we as a whole management, players took Villa to complacent and we suffered for that.

The amount of times today we basically had massive gaps was Embaressing and I felt sorry for Stevie and Hendo as they had a thankless task, it improved a bit second half but all in all we were poor and were lucky to get a point.

The defence is becoming a real problem we are shipping goals alarmingly and we just seem to have no real shape currently. Everytime we play against a big strong striker we struggle and this has happened for a long long time now we have to find a way to combat this.

kolo was absolutely atrocious today and looked an old man, Cissokho I am afraid as mentioned for a long time is out of his depth and the demise of Glenn Johnson is alarming. I like Glenn and he has been a very good player for Liverpool but for whatever reason he looks shot of confidence, I know he has had some off field issues and whether that is the reason I don't know, but he looks a pale shadow of the player we know lately.

I actually felt sorry for Skrtel who again seems to be getting a lot of stick I actually think he has been our best defender this season and again today he was the only one who competed but the mediocrity around him in terms of performance level lately is so poor.

Most worrying is Mignolet agree with Mia, he started brilliantly but the errors are stacking up now and it seems to be every game lately he is throwing a rick and this can't be good for the defence and the trust between goalkeeper and defence. He again is another ne who looks frazzled and unclear in thinking, again another player suffering a confidence crisis. He was so imperative to our good form this season but alarming to see him the past few weeks.

Credit to Villa though they were very good, very direct football but said it time and time again that is the best way to play against us we simply don't cope against pace and power especially. We got out of jail.

The positive aspects were another 90 minutes for Sturridge, Hendo's flick for the first goal was class and even though they played pretty awful the fact they still showed the spirit to come back and get something from a game we had no right to are good signs and credit them for that.

Always gunna be blips along the way and days when it Dont go well you make mistakes, as long as we as a whole learn from them that is the main thing, if we set up like that against Everton we will get beat, but I am pretty sure we shall see changes not to mention who knows if the transfer window will bring anything maybe today was a cunning plan by Brendon with the owner in attendance to say we need new players :P keep the faith :)

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Please ray. If that was given against you' date=' say in a game against United and Young would be the culprit, you'd be saying all kinds of things and most certainly not be talking about a "definite pen" and "clever play"'[/quote']

No I wouldn't. I always give an honest opinion as per last week I didn't think it was a penalty last week this week for me I think it is. It is clever play, I have no problem with players going down if they are caught, the problem arises when there is no contact.

Although obviously you can read my mind :rolleyes:

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

The fact that you've never seen him play would say enough. Even if you search him on google' date=' you'll get the same response everywhere: talented, but highly irresponsible. The fact that he's pretty much banned for life from the French national selection says about enough. And by comparing him with Joey, I was merely stating that both have the tendency to act unprofessionally.[/quote']

M'vila is an absolute tank. Midfield engine that goes on forever ... he made some poor choices a few years ago when he was young and foolish and he made some wrong choices, but he has matured.

To compare him even the slightest to a world class idiot like Joey Barton is like saying David Moyes is the worlds best manager, just pure lunacy.

I wonder how much of your view of M'vila you base on his current form and behaviour and how much it's based on what you read about him a few years ago ...

As for the "banned for life" ... he's banned til June of this year ... he's 23, will turn 24 in June, yes ... that is very much banned for life. :rolleyes:

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

M'vila is an absolute tank. Midfield engine that goes on forever ... he made some poor choices a few years ago when he was young and foolish and he made some wrong choices' date=' but he has matured.

To compare him even the slightest to a world class idiot like Joey Barton is like saying David Moyes is the worlds best manager, just pure lunacy.

[b']I wonder how much of your view of M'vila you base on his current form and behaviour and how much it's based on what you read about him a few years ago ...

[/b]

As for the "banned for life" ... he's banned til June of this year ... he's 23, will turn 24 in June, yes ... that is very much banned for life. :rolleyes:

i get the sense many people base his talent on this same principle...

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

;2829758']But you said yourself you havent seen him nor know what he plays like?

Did a bit of searching around and the general consensus is he runs around like a headless chicken doing what he wants' date=' not what the team/manager whats him to do.

[/b']

He does have the highest 'steal' rate in the league whatever that is (tackles?) and his passing completion is 86%.

If we get a loan deal, fine, but im absolutely not happy with paying his 16.6M release clause nor the 12M Rubin want to recoup that they paid for him. To me it looks like they want him off the books.

IMO, Bertand would of been ideal. Free, cheap and no worries if we dont play him when everyone else gets back.He did alright today too, just struggled with Sterlings pace but who doesnt. Cissokho was terrible.

Most of my info comes from scouting reports and articles. I dont watch ligue 1 or the russian league. Think the bit in bold is a bit harsh, wouldnt think he'd get the DM role in the french national side and whatnot if he just did whatever. Hendo runs around like a headless chicken, sometimes it can be a good thing. Dont think 12mil is much in todays market for a position we really need. Cissoko is poor though I must say, I actually feel sorry for him at times.

The fact that you've never seen him play would say enough. Even if you search him on google' date=' you'll get the same response everywhere: talented, but highly irresponsible. The fact that he's pretty much banned for life from the French national selection says about enough. And by comparing him with Joey, I was merely stating that both have the tendency to act unprofessionally.[/quote']

Again, all in the past. Hasnt done anything for a while and at a big club with Rodgers as manager I think he would get his act together.

Ray that is one of the longest posts ive ever seen. I read abit but jeez haha I agree with most of what you said. I thought it was inevitable that we would struggle. Way too open. SHould have had Hendo on the left Sterling/Coutinho on the wing IMO. All out attack doesnt work for us because Gerrard is practically disabled.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

M'vila is an absolute tank. Midfield engine that goes on forever ... he made some poor choices a few years ago when he was young and foolish and he made some wrong choices' date=' but he has matured.

To compare him even the slightest to a world class idiot like Joey Barton is like saying David Moyes is the worlds best manager, just pure lunacy.

I wonder how much of your view of M'vila you base on his current form and behaviour and how much it's based on what you read about him a few years ago ...

As for the "banned for life" ... he's banned til June of this year ... he's 23, will turn 24 in June, yes ... that is very much banned for life. :rolleyes:[/center']

Yet again, someone misquotes me. I clearly said that he is a player with potential, but his discipline is far from sorted. Still getting yellow cards on a regular basis for rash, unnecessary challenges. For one, everyone who he's ever worked with seem to consider him a bit of a "loose cannon".

Plus, he was on the verge of cementing his place in the France XI. Hardly likely now with the emergence of the likes of Pogba and Rabiot, isn't it? His decisions in general are horrible, and it has resulted in quite frankly 'wasted time'. His move to Rubin is one of the stupidest decisions I've seen in the last years.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

---------Suarez --- Sturridge ---------

-----------------------------------------

-----Coutinho----------------------------

------------------------Gerrard ----- Henderson

---------New DM ----------------

-------------------------------------------

Enrique---Sakho------Dede?---Clyne?

---------------Mignolet-------------------

Formation looks a bit disjointed but that's the best I could do. Basically a 4-4-2, with Coutinho a bit more advanced and Henderson playing wide but supporting the central midfield as well. As much as we all love Gerrard it's becoming more obvious each week that no matter where he plays it causes some sort of problem and it also means the rest of the team has to adjust as well. Unless Rodgers figures out some master role for him with no problems I think this May be the last season he's on the team sheet week in week out. It's got to be him or Lucas not both and right now the evidence says we are better team with Lucas in it than we are with Gerrard. If we make top 4 then I think a good addition would be one of the Benders.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

---------Suarez --- Sturridge ---------

-----------------------------------------

-----Coutinho----------------------------

------------------------Gerrard ----- Henderson

---------New DM ----------------

-------------------------------------------

Enrique---Sakho------Dede?---Clyne?

---------------Mignolet-------------------

Formation looks a bit disjointed but that's the best I could do. Basically a 4-4-2' date=' with Coutinho a bit more advanced and Henderson playing wide but supporting the central midfield as well. As much as we all love Gerrard it's becoming more obvious each week that no matter where he plays it causes some sort of problem and it also means the rest of the team has to adjust as well. Unless Rodgers figures out some master role for him with no problems I think this May be the last season he's on the team sheet week in week out. It's got to be him or Lucas not both and right now the evidence says we are better team with Lucas in it than we are with Gerrard. If we make top 4 then I think a good addition would be one of the Benders.[/quote']

Why can't we play Lucas and Gerrard?

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Why can't we play Lucas and Gerrard?

Lucas and Gerard as a 2 hasn't worked all season. No legs. Plus they've been sitting too deep when together. Having Henderson on the right tucking in may be able to compensate for the two in the middle but I think we need a new DM and/or play with 3 in the middle.

Dede is such a random choice, wouldn't really fancy us getting a CB coming straight from Brazil and expecting him to start for us. Do think we need another CB though, a good one.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Lucas and Gerard as a 2 hasn't worked all season. No legs. Plus they've been sitting too deep when together. Having Henderson on the right tucking in may be able to compensate for the two in the middle but I think we need a new DM and/or play with 3 in the middle.

Dede is such a random choice' date=' wouldn't really fancy us getting a CB coming straight from Brazil and expecting him to start for us. Do think we need another CB though, a good one.[/quote']

Going to have to disagree with that completely. Lucas is as good as any DM we could get our hands on at present. He needs competition yes, but we don't need to replace him. Gerrard plays just fine when he is given more freedom to roam (as he has been used to for years). There's no reason Gerrard, Lucas and Henderson can't work as a midfield. Currently I'd be looking to drop either Coutinho or Sterling.

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