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Official Liverpool Thread


ian neller
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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

My understanding was that Rodgers is in a situation where he is okaying all transfers to some extent?

As in he has control over players in that he might not scout them himself but he can say yes or no?

If that's not the case then apologies' date=' must have read an article wrong.

I understood that it was part of a committee but I assumed based on several articles that ultimately Rodgers would say yes or no if he would like players to arrive in his squad?[/quote']

Rodgers has one vote, ultimately he can be outvoted on anything and therefore he is not in control of transfers, he looks at just the "player" where as the others look at things from a cost, moneyball, statistical way and base there decisions around that.

It has long been mooted that Rodgers did not want quite a few of the signings under his era, decisions taken from "elsewhere" Balotelli being a prime example he never wanted him, but the "committee" decided it represented the best option and "deal" available.

Rodgers plays the party line in public but it is well spoken of that there have been how shall we say "heated discussion" behind the scenes....

Would be a dreadful signing' date=' there's a reason he can't get in the Malaga side. Yes, he had a good world cup but he doesn't offer you anything that Mignolet doesn't already. He's a good shot stopper who couldn't catch a cold. Vorm would be an equally poor signing, someone is needed like Begovic whose good in the air and can take a lot of pressure of the defence.[/quote']

Whilst I think dreadful is somewhat a major exaggeration, I can agree to an extent with what you are saying in that Ochoa does have many similar qualities to Mignolet (amazing shot stopper) and was brilliant in the World Cup, he is however not the biggest and whether he can stand up physically in the PL and be an imposing figure is debateable.

You don't find a Courtois everywhere, it is very difficult of the top of my head to say a realistic big imposing talented keeper that I would be happy with, is a significant upgrade that may be available. There is a derth of top class keepers IMO that and top quality CB's are so hard to find in this day and age.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

You're rumoured to have agreed a £3M fee with Malaga for Guilermo Ochoa (to be completed in January).

Excellent signing if true. For me' date=' he was the best GK at the World Cup (along with Neuer and Keylor Navas). Not had the best of times at Malaga ever since, but for £3M it's definitely worth going for it.[/quote']

yes a great signing, an i agree with the wc top 3 gk praise, seems very energetic and vocal. malaga signed him on a free as back up for their back up GK

and hasn`t played 1 min since the wc, so he is prob very eager to move..

___________________________________________________________________

YNWA : Stained on my skin

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Inspired by my youngest lads homework last night' date=' I've a couple quick questions , I'd be interested in your answers (just for the crack like) :-

1. Would you want to:-

a. Win the UEFA cup and qualify for next seasons Champions league

or

b. Crash out of the UEFA but play excellent league football to finish 5th

2. Barcelona contact the club and propose the following, of which you can only choose one:-

a. To swap Daniel Sturridge for Luis Suarez

or

b. To swap Simon Mignolet for Marc Ter Stegen/Claudio Bravo

3. FSG consider the outcomes of their proposed review of transfer dealings and propose to :-

a. Give full autonomy to Brendan Rodgers

or

b. Install a Director of Football to handle all transfers

4. Finally, the season resets and we start again - you can choose that Liverpool will:-

a. Play the same swashbuckling style of football from last season and finish 5th

or

b. Play awful, dull football and narrowly scrapped 4th[/quote']

1. A trophy and champions league thanks

2. Soz Luis but I love the Studge so lets get Claudio Bravo in

3. Give Rodgers the chance to have full say. Clearly some of the players being brought to the club aren't his signings, and the "transfer committee" has been a total bum.

4. 4th!!

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Aiden, whats your problem with Vorm? I can remember an argument once upon a time where you were saying he was a better keeper than De Gea.

Could Chelsea possibly allow Petr Cech to come to Liverpool? It would be worth an enquiry. Liverpool should sign Bony in January because its a transfer than should have been made before the season began.

Schneiderlin possibly?

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Aiden' date=' whats your problem with Vorm? I can remember an argument once upon a time where you were saying he was a better keeper than De Gea.

Could Chelsea possibly allow Petr Cech to come to Liverpool? It would be worth an enquiry. Liverpool should sign Bony in January because its a transfer than should have been made before the season began.

Schneiderlin possibly?[/quote']

You could always get Ochoa from Malaga's bench

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Aiden' date=' whats your problem with Vorm? I can remember an argument once upon a time where you were saying he was a better keeper than De Gea.

Could Chelsea possibly allow Petr Cech to come to Liverpool? It would be worth an enquiry. Liverpool should sign Bony in January because its a transfer than should have been made before the season began.

Schneiderlin possibly?[/quote']

At the time he was, since then he's gone downhill and last season made far too many mistakes where as David De Gea has cut out his mistakes and become one of the best goalkeepers in the world. A lot changes in the space of two and a half/three years.

We could have done better than having Vorm in goals, and Fabianski looks a big improvement, he's a much better all round goalkeeper. Likewise Liverpool can certainly do much better than Vorm.

Whilst I think dreadful is somewhat a major exaggeration' date=' I can agree to an extent with what you are saying in that Ochoa does have many similar qualities to Mignolet (amazing shot stopper) and was brilliant in the World Cup, he is however not the biggest and whether he can stand up physically in the PL and be an imposing figure is debateable.

You don't find a Courtois everywhere, it is very difficult of the top of my head to say a realistic big imposing talented keeper that I would be happy with, is a significant upgrade that may be available. There is a derth of top class keepers IMO that and top quality CB's are so hard to find in this day and age.[/quote']

He's not dreadful, but he'd be a dreadful signing given your current goalkeeping situation.

You don't need a top class goalkeeper, you just need someone that you can rely on and there's plenty of goalkeepers that fill that criteria. Ochoa isn't one of them.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Have to be honest I hate it when managers don't have total control of their signings. Surely that's half the requirement of being a good manager and something I think Jose is very good at. Knows what he needs and goes out and signs that player rather than all this flexibility crap which we all know is just technical nonsense for 'we can play him out of position' and he'll be average.

1 player i think we missed the boat on is Alex Song. Think he'd be a perfect fit for the way BR likes to play. Very surprised to see him doing so well at West Ham when most of the big clubs are crying out for a good DM.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

something I think Jose is very good at. Knows what he needs and goes out and signs that player rather than all this flexibility crap which we all know is just technical nonsense for 'we can play him out of position' and he'll be average.

And you saw what happened when he didnt have control, Tensions rose, performances dipped, Shevchenko flopped and Mou left.

A Manager should have majority control of First team transfers for sure, if the club want to sign youth etc then they can have the committee ,scouts, manager, whom ever get involved, but let the guy you've employed as first team manager pick his first team targets.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Its very naïve to think that you can simply give autonomy to a manager and let him get on with it.

If manager A wants player A then that's fine but that doesn't mean he gets him. Someone far more qualified than he then needs to barter or agree a price with the current players club. How can any business allow an unqualified individual - from a balancing the books perspective - simply go out and buy whom he wants?

Any manager can list who he wants but its down to the club to make the decision as to viable financial options.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Its very naïve to think that you can simply give autonomy to a manager and let him get on with it.

If manager A wants player A then that's fine but that doesn't mean he gets him. Someone far more qualified than he then needs to barter or agree a price with the current players club. How can any business allow an unqualified individual - from a balancing the books perspective - simply go out and buy whom he wants?

Any manager can list who he wants but its down to the club to make the decision as to viable financial options.

Obviously there are restrictions the club can put in place for a manager like transfer fee, wages etc. But the manager should have majority control of whom they bring in. Manager wants player A, but Club wants player B, both are available at a similar fee, who should they sign?

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Obviously there are restrictions the club can put in place for a manager like transfer fee' date=' wages etc. But the manager should have majority control of whom they bring in. Manager wants player A, but Club wants player B, both are available at a similar fee, who should they sign?[/quote']

Not sure anyone would argue with that. that's not the kinda situation that would cause any issue in truth.

its when, and this is most definatley the case at Liverpool, the manager shows ambition with a signing - player A - that club cannot afford or is unwilling to financially risk that the issue of autonomy raises its head.

Any Chairman of any company would want his Finance Director to make the final decision on such large investments, not the Personnel Director.

Given the vast sums of money involved its completely understandable.

so with key exceptions (Real and Barca being just two, where the Galactico approach from the two most valuable teams in the world turns this, not fully on its head, but certainly at 90 degrees to a "Heres a mega pot of money whose the biggest player we can buy" approach - another would be a manager who has a long tenure of proven success like Ferguson or Guardiola so can have better terms in regards transfer powers) almost all clubs have to have the same approach. (incidentally both those teams and both those managers relate to the richest teams in world football where the value of a million pounds or euros is diminshed to its lowest point in terms of market value).

So instead of folks saying Rodgers should be given full control of transfers, a more realistic approach should be he should be able to make his recommendation and the club balance the books to make that happen as often as is possible.

Which incidentally is pretty much where we are at currently.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Not sure anyone would argue with that. that's not the kinda situation that would cause any issue in truth.

its when' date=' and this is most definatley the case at Liverpool, the manager shows ambition with a signing - player A - that club cannot afford or is unwilling to financially risk that the issue of autonomy raises its head.

Any Chairman of any company would want his Finance Director to make the final decision on such large investments, not the Personnel Director.

Given the vast sums of money involved its completely understandable.

so with key exceptions (Real and Barca being just two, where the Galactico approach from the two most valuable teams in the world turns this, not fully on its head, but certainly at 90 degrees to a "Heres a mega pot of money whose the biggest player we can buy" approach - another would be a manager who has a long tenure of proven success like Ferguson or Guardiola so can have better terms in regards transfer powers) almost all clubs have to have the same approach. (incidentally both those teams and both those managers relate to the richest teams in world football where the value of a million pounds or euros is diminshed to its lowest point in terms of market value).

So instead of folks saying Rodgers should be given full control of transfers, a more realistic approach should be he should be able to make his recommendation and the club balance the books to make that happen as often as is possible.

Which incidentally is pretty much where we are at currently.[/quote']

The issue i think is the club has come up with the options for the most part and idk if they forced him or convinced him, but Rogers ended up with players he doesn't feel confident in or just simply aren't good enough.

I just feel that if Rogers had more say you wouldnt end up with players like Moreno and Lallana sitting on the pine despite their first choice team mates playing like Sunday leaguers and overpriced dross like Lovren, Alberto, Markovic stinking up the join. Heck im not even a Liverpool fan, only follow them more than most others due to my dad, and its sad too see them do a spurs.

I agree that the club needs to find viable options, but Rogers should be given first consult and give the club a list of preferences in an order he chooses and the negotiators should go to work within financial means constructed by the club.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Tragically poor.

:rolleyes:

Hows Markovic been this season? why hasnt he been playing much?

Was scared stiff early on in his first appearances. Didn't play for a while because BR realised that and has given him time to settle. Since he's made a couple of substitute appearances, and despite a silly red card, is showing very promising signs. Should get a start tonight against Bournemouth.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

To be fair to Markovic those slating him are doing so without really knowing that much about him would be my guess.

I did semi predict the way it has gone for him so far, he looks and feels like a player who is going to need time. No defending his early performances they were just total garbage and I am up there with his biggest critic and rightly so not because he played bad but because it looked like he was given no effort.

After Brendon has done the right thing take him out for a while and slowly reintroduce him TBF he has started to show glimpses of the talent he does possess.

I think a lot of it was confidence or lack of but it appears as though we are getting him "mentally ready" and in the games against Madrid, Basle (very short admittedly) and in his brief spell against United he was a lot more positive showed some nice touches, was gliding past players and played some really intelligent defence splitting passes (such as the ball through to Mario on Sunday)

He has shown glimpses in recent weeks and been a lot more positive, more importantly he looks like he is giving it total effort and he ain't passing the buck he has started to try and impose himself on games.

Small steps but he does have qualities which can be utilised and could develop into a decent player here....time will tell

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

January – available to nab (6 months or less on their contracts)

Goal Keeper: Sergio Romero

Wants out of Sampdoria, the keeper played in the World Cup final, he’s only 27 and has 54 caps for the argies.

Central Midfield: Sami Khedira

We love a Sami that’s for sure. Hes only 27 and if we got him for a free (I suspect he may well be headed to Arsenal tho) then we would be getting:-

Won the title ion Spain

Won the tile in Germany.

A double domestic cup winner.

A Champions League winner.

A UEFA Super Cup winner.

A World Cup winner

All for free? Whaaaat?!?!

Central Midfield: Nigel de Jong

Still at AC MILan, hes a tad mental and would pick up more yellow cards in a week than Lucas does in s season (and that’s saying something) but let me ask you this – the opposition look at the team sheet and they see Joe Allen. Do they feel differently if that name has a line through it and it reads Nigel “Karate” De Jong?

Forward: Klaas-Jan Huntelaar

Not my favourite player if I’m honest – in fact I would go so far as to say im not a fan - but the lad finds the net. He’s scored 288 in 453 club games in four different countries) as well as 39 goals for the Dutch national team at a quicker rate than Robin van Persie, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Patrick Kluivert and Marco van Basten. He’s 31 tho.

Forward: Andre-Pierre Gignac

The Marseille lplayer is currently ahead of Zlatan on the goal scored front – he had a dip (well more than a dip – it lasted about 2/3 years ) but he appears to be back with a bang having scored 12 in 14. Just turned 29 so could be at his peak any minute.

Theres other - and personally im loving the Cech on loan rumours - but these are my picks of lads who could be signed, do a job and sold at profit vs wages if they don't. Either way, any of the above could fee the dosh up to use the Borini money (we assume) more productively.

Thoughts?

(I don think we will actually chase these guys any more than I think we could sign them - well maybe less so with Gignac and Huntelaar - by the way)

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

If it was up to Rodgers we would have players like Vorm and Britton. Im glad he doesnt have full control...

To be fair to Rodgers he also wanted Bony, Willian, Diego Costa, Mkhetyran (or however you spell it), Eriksen, Salah and Konoplyanka all of which are massive upgrades on what we have. Blows my mind that we continually drag out negotiations to get good players for cheap and miss out on them only to spend laughable amounts on average players, the whole transfer system needs an overhaul we've been a laughing stock in it for at least 5 years.

First person who needs to go is Ian Ayre, guys a joke.

End of the day you've got to ask who thought 20 million was too much for Costa last season but thought 20 million was value for money when sanctioning the Markovic deal.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Have to be honest I hate it when managers don't have total control of their signings. Surely that's half the requirement of being a good manager and something I think Jose is very good at. Knows what he needs and goes out and signs that player rather than all this flexibility crap which we all know is just technical nonsense for 'we can play him out of position' and he'll be average.

1 player i think we missed the boat on is Alex Song. Think he'd be a perfect fit for the way BR likes to play. Very surprised to see him doing so well at West Ham when most of the big clubs are crying out for a good DM.

Firstly you can't ever give a manager free reign on transfers they'd bankrupt the club!

Managers are not financial experts and do not understand all the costs involved in transfers and what the clubs can afford. That's why more people need to be involved in every deal.

Manager's can recommend targets and clubs can come back to them and say if it's possible or not. It's very rare that clubs tell managers you have to have X player or Y player.

This is why I am still critical of Rodgers signings' date=' or at least the signings made under Brendan Rodger's management because he would be involved in the final decision. Very few clubs would force players onto a manager especially ones without big reputations.

Managers require control of the signings to some extent and good boards will back the manager, but better boards will also ensure the club can afford to do this.

It's no good giving a manager free reign to spend £100m + and ridiculous wages if it puts the club under financial pressure.

As for Alex Song, he's not a typical DM and certainly not what Liverpool need. Song doesn't tackle brilliantly, his passes well and can intercept but he doesn't really excel at anything.

IMO he's not much better than current options and would be a side ways step. Someone like Khedeira, who arguably is more of a CM would be a far better signing.

Seems nervous and very indecisive. Probably hasnt adapted to the physicality of the league yet. Reminds me a lot of Modric' first season in the PL.

Modric and Markovic are completely different, I don't understand the comparison. Modric's first season in the PL he perhaps struggled slightly with the physical side but you could see the technical gifts which were enough to give him a fairly respectable start considering his size. Also bear in mind (if you can remember) that Modric was playing VERY deep in midfield I think alongside Jenas (who isn't any good).

In fact when he was moved further forward (in the same season mind) he performed much better, so actually I'd blame the manager over the player then because Modric was used to playing out wide before Spurs.

As for Markovic correct me if I'm wrong but when he's played it's been in his preferred position or at least a role that doesn't require you to develop and adapt physically in your first season as much as a DM would need to.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

End of the day you've got to ask who thought 20 million was too much for Costa last season but thought 20 million was value for money when sanctioning the Markovic deal.

Costa spoke about the proposed move last year. He decided to stay rather than no bid accepted. From the outside it looks like this transfer committee is just one big excuse & Rodgers must be grateful as it shifts blame. All clubs have different influences on transfer... At Liverpool the manager, head scout, finance guy & owner rep is hardly groundbreaking.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

January – available to nab (6 months or less on their contracts)

Goal Keeper: Sergio Romero

Wants out of Sampdoria' date=' the keeper played in the World Cup final, he’s only 27 and has 54 caps for the argies.

Central Midfield: [b'] Sami Khedira[/b]

We love a Sami that’s for sure. Hes only 27 and if we got him for a free (I suspect he may well be headed to Arsenal tho) then we would be getting:-

Won the title ion Spain

Won the tile in Germany.

A double domestic cup winner.

A Champions League winner.

A UEFA Super Cup winner.

A World Cup winner

All for free? Whaaaat?!?!

Central Midfield: Nigel de Jong

Still at AC MILan, hes a tad mental and would pick up more yellow cards in a week than Lucas does in s season (and that’s saying something) but let me ask you this – the opposition look at the team sheet and they see Joe Allen. Do they feel differently if that name has a line through it and it reads Nigel “Karate” De Jong?

Forward: Klaas-Jan Huntelaar

Not my favourite player if I’m honest – in fact I would go so far as to say im not a fan - but the lad finds the net. He’s scored 288 in 453 club games in four different countries) as well as 39 goals for the Dutch national team at a quicker rate than Robin van Persie, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Patrick Kluivert and Marco van Basten. He’s 31 tho.

Forward: Andre-Pierre Gignac

The Marseille lplayer is currently ahead of Zlatan on the goal scored front – he had a dip (well more than a dip – it lasted about 2/3 years ) but he appears to be back with a bang having scored 12 in 14. Just turned 29 so could be at his peak any minute.

Theres other - and personally im loving the Cech on loan rumours - but these are my picks of lads who could be signed, do a job and sold at profit vs wages if they don't. Either way, any of the above could fee the dosh up to use the Borini money (we assume) more productively.

Thoughts?

(I don think we will actually chase these guys any more than I think we could sign them - well maybe less so with Gignac and Huntelaar - by the way)

You might as well keep Mignolet over Romero. Both make the same sort of erratic mistakes so you'd do well to save your time and money. There's a reason he's at Sampdoria.

Khedira would unlikely come to you. He'd be a good signing though.

De Jong wouldn't be. You've got enough talentless immobile central midfielders.

Don't get the hate on Huntelaar. He'd be a massive upgrade on your strikers at the moment. You'd have to start putting crosses in though and since you haven't done that for Lambert and Balotelli I see no reason why you'd start doing that for Klaas.

Gignac on the other hand would be a downgrade on what you have. I don't rate him whatsoever.

You need to get away from all these big CFs and go after someone of Sturridge and Suarez's ilk - quick and agile. Last season you tore teams apart on the counter. Lambert, Balotelli etc just don't have that in them

And Rodgers has seemingly made it clear that you're incapable of playing any other way right now.

You still need at least one new full back (right back), at least two central midfielders and some proper wingers. That's assuming you want to challenge the top four.

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