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Official Liverpool Thread


ian neller
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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Most teams in the league would have easily beaten that Arsenal team today it was so unbalanced & had zero shape in midfield. It really is incredible how both Rodgers & Wenger have neglected such important area of the team despite high spending.

From the outside it looks like Arsenals problems are easier to solve as even an average DM & depth at CB is a huge improvement. Will be interesting what Liverpool do in January & if FSG trust Rodgers again as the team from back to front is average apart from the very impressive young attacking midfielders.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

How can you say that? Lol. They outplayed Arsenal for the full game' date=' all game and had no recognised striker for over 2/3 of the game. Totally dominated from start to finish against a team who are reknown for great possession play. If that isnt a good performance and one for Liverpool fans to be hopeful about, especially after some of the dismal performances theyve churned out, then i dont know what theyd have to do to impress you.[/quote']

Having no recognised striker on the pitch is no excuse whatsoever, they've got recognised strikers available and they've decided not to play them.

Regardless of what Arsenal are known for, today they didn't show up. They couldn't pass the ball or control the ball and they won't play worse than that this season.

They didn't create enough chances for me, and didn't defend well enough. It's all well and good keeping the ball but if you're not performing in the most important two thirds of the pitch then you need to improve.

Liverpool should be beating poor teams at home, and today Arsenal didn't show up and were a poor side. I think any side outside the bottom six in Liverpool's position should have been looking at nothing less than three points.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Well, when we play poorly, we get hammered, when we show signs of some good stuff, we still get a lot of stick. I'm actually very positive about a potential push for fourth place now. Realistically Southampton, West Ham, are going to be dropping plenty of points. Saints still in the middle of a very tough run of fixtures which it's almost certain they will drop points. I'm sure if we can continue to improve on that sort of performance, hopefully sign a player or two, get Sturridge back in, then we will be looking like a very nice side. If that was poor from us, which somehow it apparently was, that only means we've got more room to improve.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Having no recognised striker on the pitch is no excuse whatsoever' date=' they've got recognised strikers available and they've decided not to play them.

Regardless of what Arsenal are known for, today they didn't show up. They couldn't pass the ball or control the ball and they won't play worse than that this season.

They didn't create enough chances for me, and didn't defend well enough. It's all well and good keeping the ball but if you're not performing in the most important two thirds of the pitch then you need to improve.

Liverpool should be beating poor teams at home, and today Arsenal didn't show up and were a poor side. I think any side outside the bottom six in Liverpool's position should have been looking at nothing less than three points.[/quote']

What? How is having no recognised striker no excuse? Hahahahaha they didnt create enough chances?!?!?! 27 shots, 10 on target, creating plenty of chances, pressing was brilliant and restricting one of the best possession-based teams to their lowest possession stat (for 11 years was it?) is a testament to how well Liverpool played.

Your third paragraph basically emphasises my point of having no recognised striker. Would you expect Swansea to perform in the final third with Nathan Dyer up front? No you wouldnt. If Balotelli started today, Liverpool could of easily knocked them for six. Rodgers clearly doesnt have faith in Lambert or Borini to put the ball in the back of the net.

I cannot fathom where you think 27 shots isnt creating enough hahaahahaha.

Also, they defended pretty well and the pressing was magnificent.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Reminded me of us against United few weeks back. No idea how we got a point, let alone nearly win lol.

Probably the worse we have played (Maybe Dortmund away was worse). Only player who turned up was Giroud and Cazorla.

Im not too bothered with a point at Anfield though, an improvement on last season ;)

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

It doesn't matter how well you move the ball around or create chances if you concede from the first two shots on target that come against you as the chances are that you aren't going to get 3 points. It would be OK if that was out of character or the two shots that went in were out of this world. That isn't the case.

The defence has been a massive issue ever since Rodgers has taken over and it's been particularly prominent over the past 2 seasons when the attack has been at a top level. It's not as if he's been unable to invest either - he's spent £67m on players for his back 5 since taking over. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm confident that that makes yours the most expensive defence in England at the moment.

The attempts that Arsenal scored from were schoolboy errors too. For Debuchy's you had two chances to win the header and clear the ball before it even came to him. When it gets there, Skrtel shouldn't be being beaten in the air either. Giroud's was even worse - he was about 5 yards from goal and didn't have any of the 5/6 Liverpool players in the box within 5 yards of him. That's ridiculous.

So in short, you can attack as well as you like but you'll only be as strong as your weakest link which is your defence. That defence has shown no signs of improvement in Rodgers' reign and it's especially bad when you have no fit strikers at the other end to score the chances you do create. I don't think you played badly in that regard today but frankly, it doesn't matter.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Surely Uniteds defence costs a lot more... Shaw' date=' Jones, Smalling, Rojo.

Anyway, my point is Liverpool played well today.[/quote']

Maybe. They have conceded 25% fewer goals though, and that's with a lot of those players being out for a lot of the time.

Most played defences

Liverpool

Mignolet + Johnson + Skrtel + Lovren + Moreno

= £10m + £17.5m + £6.5m + £20m + £12m = £66m

United

De Gea + Smalling + Jones + Blackett + Rojo

= £18.9m + £10m + £17m + £0m + £16m = £61.9m

They played well going forwards but defensively they were still awful. Arsenal were terrible and didn't create nearly as much as they should have. The chances they did have, they tended to score.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

What? How is having no recognised striker no excuse? Hahahahaha they didnt create enough chances?!?!?! 27 shots' date=' 10 on target, creating plenty of chances, pressing was brilliant and restricting one of the best possession-based teams to their lowest possession stat (for 11 years was it?) is a testament to how well Liverpool played.

Your third paragraph basically emphasises my point of having no recognised striker. Would you expect Swansea to perform in the final third with Nathan Dyer up front? No you wouldnt. If Balotelli started today, Liverpool could of easily knocked them for six. Rodgers clearly doesnt have faith in Lambert or Borini to put the ball in the back of the net.

I cannot fathom where you think 27 shots isnt creating enough hahaahahaha.

Also, they defended pretty well and the pressing was magnificent.[/quote']

Because it was Rodgers choice not to play with a recognised striker, they had Borini and Lambert on the bench. It's absolutely no excuse that their manager had a tactical mare up top. Both Borini and Lambert are Rodgers signings, last season they scored twenty goals between them. It wasn't even a case of Sterling wasting his chances, did he even have a shot?

Shots and shots on target aren't particularly important stats, a lot of those shots were from distance and a lot of them didn't trouble Szczesny. I'd say Liverpool had about half a dozen chances in the game, given how much of the ball they had and the areas they had it it in that's not good enough.

In know way did they defend pretty well, nothing about there defence today looked Premier League standard.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

What? How is having no recognised striker no excuse? Hahahahaha they didnt create enough chances?!?!?! 27 shots' date=' 10 on target, creating plenty of chances, pressing was brilliant and restricting one of the best possession-based teams to their lowest possession stat (for 11 years was it?) is a testament to how well Liverpool played.

Your third paragraph basically emphasises my point of having no recognised striker. Would you expect Swansea to perform in the final third with Nathan Dyer up front? No you wouldnt. If Balotelli started today, Liverpool could of easily knocked them for six. Rodgers clearly doesnt have faith in Lambert or Borini to put the ball in the back of the net.

I cannot fathom where you think 27 shots isnt creating enough hahaahahaha.

Also, they defended pretty well and the pressing was magnificent.[/quote']

Spot on mate....

Created barely any chances, totally laughable some people clearly are watching a different match.

In the last few games we have created about 60-70 chances which is probably more than we had in the previous ten matches, we look like an attacking threat, the speed, pace and intensity in our passing and in our pressing is getting much better and somewhere near where we would expect...

We look like we can score goals again, we are passing the ball better, we are a lot more fluid, we totally dominated,the pressing is higher up the pitch,mad now have a formation which offers us something, our players are starting to display some real quality and what we hoped for (Lallana, Markovic getting better etc)

We realise we ain't Real Madrid, but we are getting better, I can see some progression and good signs from what has been a Dissapointing season thus far we can now see things we have all wanted to see and hope for a better period

Oh and I have actually enjoyed our football, something. I ain't been able to say to much this season

Yet apparently we can't be positive about anything :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I think the main thing today is that we actually scored off a corner for the first time this season. Lallanas set piece delivery has been far better than Gerrards this season. All we are missing is a striker in this set-up unfortunatly Balotelli has been injured/banned since we changed to this formation (Bar his impressive United cameo) and Lambert and Borini clearly aren't favoured. The question is though when we do decide to put a striker in who drops out?

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Maybe. They have conceded 25% fewer goals though' date=' and that's with a lot of those players being out for a lot of the time.

[u']Most played defences[/u]

Liverpool

Mignolet + Johnson + Skrtel + Lovren + Moreno

= £10m + £17.5m + £6.5m + £20m + £12m = £66m

United

De Gea + Smalling + Jones + Blackett + Rojo

= £18.9m + £10m + £17m + £0m + £16m = £61.9m

They played well going forwards but defensively they were still awful. Arsenal were terrible and didn't create nearly as much as they should have. The chances they did have, they tended to score.

I thought they played well defensively, apart from the obvious two mistakes. I dont think those two can justify a poor defensive showing... Overall, they played a very solid game in regards to pressing the opponent, winning the ball back and limiting their chances. If you compare how Liverpool played today vs a number of their previous games this season, the performance was a vast improvement. Every Red shirt gave it their all today and in my eyes, the performance wasnt just good, it was brilliant.

There will always be mixed opinions as no two varying people will have the same leverage as to deciphering where the line is from Liverpool playing well to Arsenal playing bad, my opinion is it was a good performance.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Struggling to see an argument against an improvement in Liverpool's play today, Arsenal were incredibly poor but there were signs of positivity in Liverpool today.

Definitely far from getting into a good run of form still but a step in the right direction offensively, with a proper striker up front I'm sure wins won't be too far away.

Nobody is claiming they have been perfect, far from it, and Arsenal were doing them a lot of favours but you can only play what's in front of you and considering Liverpool's situation they did much better today.

I wouldn't be delighted by it if I were a fan, but I'd certainly be taking a few positives away.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Two major errors, given that Liverpool had nothing to do defensively isn't good enough for this level. I don't see an argument for Liverpool defending well today.

There's a big difference between taking a few positives and taking a few signs of improvement and saying the performance was excellent. Their performance wasn't good enough.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Because it was Rodgers choice not to play with a recognised striker' date=' they had Borini and Lambert on the bench. It's absolutely no excuse that their manager had a tactical mare up top. Both Borini and Lambert are Rodgers signings, last season they scored twenty goals between them. It wasn't even a case of Sterling wasting his chances, did he even have a shot?

Shots and shots on target aren't particularly important stats, a lot of those shots were from distance and a lot of them didn't trouble Szczesny. I'd say Liverpool had about half a dozen chances in the game, given how much of the ball they had and the areas they had it it in that's not good enough.

In know way did they defend pretty well, nothing about there defence today looked Premier League standard.[/quote']

Do you know it was Rodgers choice? Maybe he didnt want to sign Lambert or Borini and by my judgement from the gametime some of "his signings" are getting this season, Rodgers doesnt have the last say in some of the transfer activity at least.

The team still created 27 shooting opportunities, it doesnt matter if they are 1 yard out or 40 yards out. I can think of three clear cut chances straight off the bat and thats not including the Lallana chance where he did the nice turn then blazed over or the one Markovic took first time (stupidly) with his right foot. Szczesny made three very good saves throughout the match and thats no fault of the attackers. Two good chances fell to Lucas too of all people.

You say they didnt defend well, i think overall they did. I think it was a good Liverpool performance, you think it was a bad Arsenal one.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Do you know it was Rodgers choice? Maybe he didnt want to sign Lambert or Borini and by my judgement from the gametime some of "his signings" are getting this season' date=' Rodgers doesnt have the last say in some of the transfer activity at least.

The team still created 27 shooting opportunities, it doesnt matter if they are 1 yard out or 40 yards out. I can think of three clear cut chances straight off the bat and thats not including the Lallana chance where he did the nice turn then blazed over or the one Markovic took first time (stupidly) with his right foot. Szczesny made three very good saves throughout the match and thats no fault of the attackers. Two good chances fell to Lucas too of all people.

You say they didnt defend well, i think overall they did. I think it was a good Liverpool performance, you think it was a bad Arsenal one.[/quote']

Rodgers was Rodgers first signing, worked under him at Chelsea and Swansea and absolutely was his signing. There's no excuses.

It blatantly does matter whether the shots were clear or whether they weren't even chances.

There's no basis to say overall they've defended well, they've made two fatal defensive mistakes which is too many for Liverpool in any game, never mind a game when they've barely had to defend. The organisation wasn't acceptable, this is supposed to be the defending of a side pushing for the top four yet you'll see better from sides scrapping in the bottom three. People have talked about the likes of Southampton and West Ham being sides that will inevitably give up points, but they won't give goals away anywhere that easily.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I'd like to hear the argument for Liverpool defending well today. I've already said that the attack has shown signs of improvement recently which the majority of posts highlighting Liverpool's improvement are pointing towards. However, I believe you've conceded 2 very soft goals today from the very few chances that a poor Arsenal side managed to create. The stronger showing going forwards will be fruitless if you cannot hold your own fort.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Youve basically answered your own question. Limiting how many chances Arsenal had is basically a testament to how well Liverpool defended.

Yes, there were two mistakes but overall the defensive aspect of the game was good. As i said previously, mistakes dont differenciate how well a team has defended... OVERALL, (key word) the defending was good.

If Southampton or West Ham churned out a performance like that against Arsenal i think youd be a lot less quick to judge the match on two defensive mistakes.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Liverpool didn't stop Arsenal from creating chances, they barely strung any passes together. Sanchez being unable to take a corner sums up their day, their errors didn't need forcing.

Southampton and West Ham would have both beaten Arsenal today, just like ourselves and Stoke did when Arsenal weren't at their best. That's why Southampton and West Ham are where they are in the league, their standards have been much higher than what Liverpool have performed this season.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Youve basically answered your own question. Limiting how many chances Arsenal had is basically a testament to how well Liverpool defended.

Yes' date=' there were two mistakes but overall the defensive aspect of the game was good. As i said previously, mistakes dont differenciate how well a team has defended... OVERALL, (key word) the defending was good.

If Southampton or West Ham churned out a performance like that against Arsenal i think youd be a lot less quick to judge the match on two defensive mistakes.[/quote']

But I don't think that limiting Arsenal's chances was Liverpool's doing - it was Arsenal being terrible. Chamberlain was nonexistent, Welbeck lost and Giroud lazy (though he did show some good nous on occasion).

It was two huge mistakes as well. The only real defending that Liverpool had to do didn't get done and you can't expect to win football matches if you concede twice.

Southampton and West Ham haven't had anything like the investment that Liverpool enjoy. If Yoshida or Cresswell messes up then you take it on the chin because they aren't top class players and have generally punched well above their weight this season. Liverpool's back line are the exact opposite - expensively assembled, error prone and not performing to expectations.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

But I don't think that limiting Arsenal's chances was Liverpool's doing - it was Arsenal being terrible. Chamberlain was nonexistent' date=' Welbeck lost and Giroud lazy (though he did show some good nous on occasion).

It was two huge mistakes as well. The only real defending that Liverpool had to do didn't get done and you can't expect to win football matches if you concede twice.

Southampton and West Ham haven't had anything like the investment that Liverpool enjoy. If Yoshida or Cresswell messes up then you take it on the chin because they aren't top class players and have generally punched well above their weight this season. Liverpool's back line are the exact opposite - expensively assembled, error prone and not performing to expectations.[/quote']

Liverpools back line today :

Toure - FREE

Skittles - £6.5m (almost seven years ago)

Sakho - £13 to £18m (depending on source)

I thought Sakho was very decent today.

So its purely councidence that all of the Arsenal team had an off day? Not one bit of Ox, Giroud, Sanchez et all was down to a decent liverpool showing.

Thats as bkinkered an Arsenal view as your likely to get imho.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

It was mainly your formation that made you out play us. You had always a spare man in midfield which is why flamini couldnt do anything defensively. Wenger should have adressed this but didnt. Usually its us that have an extra midfielder in games.

3-5-2 (it was more a 3-2-4-1 from lLiverpool) beats 4-3-3 quite easily and the main reason we were so bad, whilst Liverpool had a free man all game and we couldnt break on counters as we had no free man to pass to. Against a lesser team that would likely play 4-5-1 at anfield I think you wouldnt get the same dominant performance.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

He seems to be a lot more composed on the left side of the three rather than as part of a duo.

Last season, Sakho's pass accuracy was 92.4%, and he made only two errors that led to shots in his 1480 minutes on the field.

In 1173 minutes this season, Lovren has already made five errors leading to shots, and his passing accuracy is 87.1%.

The current run of games really does make me recall the season before last when we played really well, dominated large parts of games but just couldn't find the net - Suarez hit post, bar backside - pretty much everything but the back of the net, the death by passing approach Rodgers aimed for when he first joined seemingly making a reappearance yet married to a little more of the pass on the counter. We seem to creating space again and bringing the game to the opposition much more than previously although there is a long way to go yet.

As Liverpool fans we have been hoping to see that the ethos, effort and essence of last season remains regardless of the los personnel and the last couple of game would suggest that we may be getting there - as I say though a long long way to go.

And isn't it great to see Marko starting to find his feet. Henderson also seems to be returning to form as do both Streling and, to a lesser degree, Phippo but for me the stand out, not necessarily yesterday so much, is Lucas. He's genuinely loved at Anfield and, although his ability to find cards is a tad worrying, he really does help us balance the side.

That said, I would like to see a bit more of Can.

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