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Official Liverpool Thread


ian neller
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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

If he were at any other club, I would say losing Sterling wouldn't be of that much a concern. However, we all know the replacement will be poo and keeping hold of him is critical. Lose him, and Liverpool will be in the bog for years. You'd certainly be taking a similar look to the Arsenal teams of bygone years where big names left quicker then brain cells do at Old Trafford.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

The line up he quoted is far from unrealistic at all...some of the stuff you are saying lately is so wide of the mark I can only presume you are on the wind up which ain't usually your style..

Wouldn't be my choice but it is a realistic line up' date=' in fact perhaps a bit pessimistic, I think we can do better than that in a few areas.[/b']

Raheem will be here next season I have no doubt and still think it is a high probability a new contract will be sorted, no panic.

Yeah it isn't exactly my dream XI for next season, just picked the players I can see us signing. I expect though the way the last couple of windows have gone there will be more than just 3 new players though.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Also found something very interesting here. It's a comment that was made on a This Is Anfield article so I don't know if anyone here has seen it. The comment itself was already copied from somewhere on the Bleacher Report. Warning in advance it is very long.

"In full openness this is not my comment, saw it on bleacher and was too good not to share.

Wallace lim

Made a similar comment on another site the other day and I'd like to add on to the notion of whether the 3-4-2-1 has run its course. First of all, Rodgers' best unbeaten runs came when he changed formations midseason, the 4-1-2-1-2 last year and 3-4-2-1 this. The element of surprise, turning us into an instant surprise package yielded results for us. But naturally as teams start catching on to what we're doing and they get prepared for it, its effectiveness wears off. In our last 4 matches last season, we narrowly won at Norwich, lost to Chelsea, drew with Palace and narrowly beat Newcastle after Newcastle took the initial lead. Thing is, the pattern I've noticed is that, after the surprise element of the formation wears off, our midfield starts getting overrun again very easily. It happened last year when we supposedly had 4 central midfielders in that formation, which cost us buckets of goals, and it's happened this year as well. We got away with it at Swansea, and we got found out for 2 matches after that. The first problem we have is that we are unable to control the game these days, seemingly almost against anyone we play. This is happening despite the different formations we use, simply because the players we have in central midfield are just not good enough. Mourinho uses a very common 4-2-3-1 at Chelsea, and given 4-2-3-1's popularity, surely every opponent should know its weaknesses, but his team controls the field very well, almost every team they play can't touch them. That's because his players are good, and they combine their individual quality with the team shape to control a game.

Every formation has its strengths and weaknesses, and part of being the manager when working with a preferred formation is to maximize your pros and minimizing your cons. Mourinho has his 4-2-3-1, Benitez has his 4-4-1-1, they all worked out well for them, and they always got good results, no matter how familiar opponents were with those formations.

The fact that Rodgers has had to change formations to spring surprises on opponents every 6 months to get results over them brings up a few possible flaws. First, it seems as though Rodgers is unable to minimize the cons in any formation he uses, which is why when those cons are found out, he changes real quick. Some would say that he is versatile, which is why he knows many formations, unlike some other managers who just run headfirst with plan A and plan A and plan A. I agree that he is versatile, but when you realize that his team, and especially his midfield, are near consistently incapable of controlling the field of play regardless of the formation used, it means there is something wrong there. The 3-4-2-1 has the strength of the dual number 10 positions that most teams aren't properly equipped to handle, regardless of familiarity, and for him to change formations and discard that advantage he has just because his flaws have been exploited means he doesn't know how to minimize the flaws of the back 3 while maintaining the advantage that the dual number 10 gives him.

Second point, if you're playing 6-7 different formations in a span of 3 years and, outside of the periods where your formation is still a surprise package that no one knows how to deal with, your midfield, which is the most important place for controlling a match, is constantly and consistently overrun by every opponent, regardless of how good or how bad said opponent is supposed to be on paper, it means your players aren't good. Simple as that. Look back at Benitez's 4-4-1-1 of 6 years ago. Everyone knows what a 4-4-1-1 is, everyone should be prepared for what it is about, but Benitez's teams controlled the field well because the players then were good, very good. If a midfield triangle of Alonso, Mascherano and 28 year old Gerrard beats a midfield diamond of Lucas, Allen, 34 year old Gerrard/24 year old Henderson and Coutinho despite the numerical disadvantage, it's as much a glowing endorsement of the former as it is a damning indictment about the latter.

Surprise formations work because opponents simply get caught off guard and they can't react. If opponents can't react, then even a 4th tier player can run rings around them. The quality that a team possesses, and the quality that any player possesses, truly comes to the fore when they can win the big matches without relying on surprise tactics and formations. This is what Liverpool have failed to do. Not only have they failed to win, but they've also been overrun in midfield far far far too many times in recent years.

I'm largely targeting central midfield because that is the one place where we've been getting bullied day in and day out for the past few years, and let's face it, if you don't have a strong midfield, your defence gets exposed non stop for 90 minutes and you concede goals by the dozens, and the ball will never reach your attackers and you'll finish the season scoring very few. Going off tangent some, but the main source of my frustration, and the main target of my ire, is Joe Allen. I've ranted about this guy many times, the flaws in his game, of which there are many, no strength in any area. This is the guy who I feel is by far the weakest link in the team. For example, if he intercepts a pass, then plays a one yard pass to player B, then it makes no difference from player B making the interception himself and then striding one yard with the ball. Allen's main duties have largely been defensive in nature, so I'm comparing him to any decent defensive midfield, or maybe Matic, who's the benchmark in England today. As a defensive midfielder, you have to get the ball off your opponent, take possession and make the transition into attack. Look at Matic, he marks the opposing number 10 pretty much at all times, and when the ball comes in, boom, he ploughs the ball off the player, takes possession, either makes a forward run himself, or plays a good 12 yard pass to an advanced player who can run. Allen on the other hand, just runs into the vicinity of an opposing player, jockeys about just to force the opponent into a back pass instead of challenging for the ball himself, runs in circles unsure of where to go and then plays a one yard pass and therefore passes the responsibility of the transition onto someone else, during which time the chance to counterattack is long gone. The guy is 25 years old already, and he has not improved at all in the 3 years he's been here. The reason that he doesn't get as low a rating in matches as other players do is because the negative effects of every mistake he makes isn't felt immediately, it is felt 5-6 passes later when everyone else behind him makes their own mistakes while attempting to mop up his first mistake. See Arsenal's third goal vs us in the 4-1. Lucas has the ball and is being closed down by 2-3 players. He passes the ball to Allen who for some reason is just 4-5 yards near him instead of being in open space somewhere further where the ball can be in a less dangerous area. Allen receives the ball and promptly passes it back to Lucas who at this moment still has those 2-3 Arsenal players surrounding him. Lucas panics and plays a random pass out and loses the ball when our defensive shape is still not there. One long ball to Sanchez and it gets Toure scrambling, and bang, goal.

I won't say that the 3-4-2-1, or even the 4-1-2-1-2 or the 4-3-3 has run its course. What we need are quality players who can make the formation work even after the novelty or surprise nature of the formation wears off."

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Was at the Islington O2 last night for a night with Jamie Carragher...

Great fun, answered all the questions the guy interviewing him asked and answered them properly and also all the fan questions with tremendous banter and not the boring answers you usually get in gees type of events.

Also got to shake the man's hand and spend a couple of minutes chatting with him (was just a couple though nearly 500 people there I would guess) great guy, a true Legend!!

Would recommend it to anybody if he does a show near you.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

If he thinks it's better in Madrid he should ask Bale and Jeses cars

If you can't take jabs like that he won't make it too far

So it's okay how certain "fans" treat players. Because players like Bale and Ronaldo and... well so many top players of their ilk have been taking pathetic needless abuse from fans for one heck of a long time. Raheem trolls fans plenty on twitter, it's amusing he's a pretty cool guy. If Liverpool are that small time they'll hound out one of their best purchases for a tidy profit then fair play. Shows how small time they see themselves now.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

So it's okay how certain "fans" treat players. Because players like Bale and Ronaldo and... well so many top players of their ilk have been taking pathetic needless abuse from fans for one heck of a long time. Raheem trolls fans plenty on twitter' date=' it's amusing he's a pretty cool guy. If Liverpool are that small time they'll hound out one of their best purchases for a tidy profit then fair play. Shows how small time they see themselves now.[/quote']

In what part of my post did I say it was ok?

None

I'm saying the grass ain't greener at the team he's linked with, if he'd been playing for Madrid like he has been for us recently the abuse would be a lot worse than just a bit of heckling.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Even though us getting 4th is very unrealistic' date=' with the form City are on we have a much better chance of catching them than if United had lost.

But end of the day I can't see us getting 4th at all.[/quote']

Any time United win it is the worst possible result in my eyes....

City's fixtures from now on in are much easier than ours and with the GD it is basically +5 points if we win tomorrow.

United's fixtures on paper were harder, either which way I agree 4th is a massive long shot we would have to be perfect including some tough away games and the odds on us winning all seven and City dropping six points....

Put it this way I won't be betting on it :P

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

;3082939']^Yawn

best possible result so far today' date=' win tomorrow and right back in the mix for 4th.[/quote']

I think it was the worst possible result TBH....
Even though us getting 4th is very unrealistic' date=' with the form City are on we have a much better chance of catching them than if United had lost.

But end of the day I can't see us getting 4th at all.[/quote']

Any time United win it is the worst possible result in my eyes....

City's fixtures from now on in are much easier than ours and with the GD it is basically +5 points if we win tomorrow.

United's fixtures on paper were harder' date=' either which way I agree 4th is a massive long shot we would have to be perfect including some tough away games and the odds on us winning all seven and City dropping six points....

Put it this way I won't be betting on it :P[/quote']

I'd have to agree with Ray here.

I think either however you look at it Liverpool are the losers out of this fixture more than any team. Had United lost today I think the narrowest of hopes for top 4 could have been rekindled (of course depending on your own result) but now I can't see you pushing for it.

United have the tougher run of fixtures even now with Chelsea and Arsenal still to play they could still drop 6 points which had they lost would have put pressure on them.

My ambition is to have my own song from the Kop.

- Raheem Sterling

Not sure if anyone has seen this but Sterling is looking a bit of a mug here by coming out and saying that after all this contract mess.

I'm sure either way he'll get his song though, might not be a nice one though!

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I'd have to agree with Ray here.

I think either however you look at it Liverpool are the losers out of this fixture more than any team. Had United lost today I think the narrowest of hopes for top 4 could have been rekindled (of course depending on your own result) but now I can't see you pushing for it.

United have the tougher run of fixtures even now with Chelsea and Arsenal still to play they could still drop 6 points which had they lost would have put pressure on them.

- Raheem Sterling

Not sure if anyone has seen this but Sterling is looking a bit of a mug here by coming out and saying that after all this contract mess.

I'm sure either way he'll get his song though' date=' might not be a nice one though![/quote']

City's form right now is abysmal, they are far more likely to drop stupid points unlike United, they face two relegation candidates both at home, they face potential banana skins in Swansea away and Tottenham away and they also have Southampton (Looking for Europe) on the final day.

Had United lost I don't believe they'd have dropped stupid points, this is the same City who have just been beaten by Palace and Burnley.

I don't think for a minute that we'd catch anyone we blew our chances of Top 4 when we lost to United, but looking at form we'd be far more likely to catch City than you.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

City's form right now is abysmal' date=' they are far more likely to drop stupid points unlike United, they face two relegation candidates both at home, they face potential banana skins in Swansea away and Tottenham away and they also have Southampton (Looking for Europe) on the final day.

Had United lost I don't believe they'd have dropped stupid points, this is the same City who have just been beaten by Palace and Burnley.

I don't think for a minute that we'd catch anyone we blew our chances of Top 4 when we lost to United, but looking at form we'd be far more likely to catch City than you.[/quote']

You need to win tomorrow firstly and then hope City lose 2 or lose and draw 1 but Liverpool still got to face Chelsea

Btw I heard Sterling wanted to join Arsenal so he can go smoking with Wilshere

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

You need to win tomorrow firstly and then hope City lose 2 or lose and draw 1 but Liverpool still got to face Chelsea

We'd have to be near perfect or at least unbeaten in the last 7 to even make City sweat, I don't think our players will push for it knowing we have a trip to Wembley next week and a chance of a cup. I seem to remember a similar situation under Kenny when we had the chance of Top 4 but had an FA Cup Semi-Final/Final to look forward to and we completely took our foot off the gas in the league.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Our line-up is terrible' date=' only good part is seeing Ibe back. Not expecting us to score tonight.[/quote']

This is Newcastle and our defence is appalling, we can't score and certainly can't keep clean sheets. If Liverpool score early on I feel the floodgates will open.

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