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Official Liverpool Thread

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Balotelli has played in the EPL for City before so Rodgers should of known what he is like

Falcao was a risk which didn't plan out as start he had great scoring record and knee op

You say that as if Falcao was playing in some unknown league in the middle of nowhere. They were both proven players before signing' date=' Balotelli has attitude issues, whilst Falcao has injury issues.

As far as I'm aware it around £22-25m but we'll say £25m as a rough guide for now. If however if it is £30m as you suggest then I'd say we're overspending somewhat, I don't mind £25m though that's about right.

I did mention him but not as a comparison to Depay, I just mentioned that some Dutch league players have done well in the PL, like Suarez, and that also some have not. I was merely using him to highlight how silly it is to suggest a player cannot succeed based solely on their previous league it's more complex than that. I just don't see why you would mention Suarez in relation to Depay not having the same potential etc as the two are completely different players and nobody had before suggested any direct comparison between the two that's all.

I'm just saying that you're using Suarez as a point that Depay will be good in the Premier League meaning that it is a comparison, and I am merely pointing out to you that Depay has a long way to go to become half the player Suarez is.

Their skill sets are different, which means that although Suarez adapted very well to English football does not mean Depay will. Even players with the physicality like Altidore struggled mightily in the Premier League.

It would seem then that a new RB is needed, hands off Clyne!!! I can't think of many Liverpool-esque signings in that position who are available maybe someone like Trippier or am I losing my mind?

Would not mind Kieran Trippier as a backup of sorts. As long as Emre Can doesn't play right-back anymore.

What we are going to do with them and what I would like to happen are potentially very different. As far as I'm concerned RVP is no longer a starter, Rooney has proven he's the main man, once again, upfront and RVP must either content himself to the bench or leave. IMO I'd like to see RVP sold while he holds value and replaced with someone like Lacazette whose pace could be a nice addition to the squad, however equally I realise the unlikelihood of such an occurrence.

I'd be extremely surprised if you guys got more than 15m for RvP. And who would buy van Persie anyway? Not anyone in the Premier League, not anyone in La Liga, Inter Milan perhaps? It's not like he'll leave his comfortable wages in United any time soon.

As for Di Maria I think he's had so many personal issues to battle with the worst being his home broken into that it's hard to be too harsh on him this season. His stats aren't all that bad though equally he has had nowhere near the desired impact of a big money player. I'd say give him another season to show us the true side of his game and hopefully settle in. However having said that if PSG came in with £50m+ for him I don't think United could refuse and should then make a serious move for Bale (and I'm aware I'm back in rainbow land now).

You're playing a bit too much FIFA/FM recently haven't you. :P

Gareth + Lacazette would be extremely good, but extremely unlikely as well. I don't get the excuse of getting your house broken into. It hurts, but surely it doesn't cause a six month slump. It just shows that Di Maria does not have the mental makeup of a world class superstar.

Stats are deceiving however, and Di Maria has been poor for his price. His performances are nowhere near what you'd expect for a 60m player, and some of his assists are barely "assists," but stats-wise they still count. He's still a fantastic player regardless, and I think a move to PSG would put him back at his pre-World Cup levels.

This is not directed at you personally Ben, but I see a lot of United fans saying to give Di Maria another season to prove himself, yet the same fans are slating Lallana, Markovic etc. Why not give them all the benefit of the doubt, and give them anotehr season. There is a double standard here isn't there?

Hard to judge RVP sale, really it only makes sense if someone comes in too and who?

I think it would be very naive of any fan to doubt that United won't make more signings and that some of those could potentially be CL quality.

Oh I agree, Utd are going to sign more players. The RvP point was mentioned up there, I don't see any suitors right now.

Depay isn't identical to any of those wingers I'm afraid, very different style to all of them apart from being quick. For example Depay is very much a cut inside LW, Sterling can play anywhere on wings, CAM or ST, Markovic won't move from a RM/RW really and Ibe isn't near Depay's level despite showing promise Ibe's more of a promising youngster showing promise of being more promising! :P

That being said I completely agree you have bigger worries than LW and so £25m on Depay makes no sense for your side. He is needed more at United and probably knows that too.

I think the biggest difference I feel with the Markovic and Depay transfers is the physical build and style of the players. Now far be it from me to say smaller, thinner wingers have no place in the PL, but typically they have a bit of power as well as pace, or they have excellent balance and the ability to do something unexpected. Depay has shown he ticks those boxes for club and country and I would argue is ahead of Markovic in terms of development at this stage. Basically I feel at the time of purchase that Depay is better prepared to do well than Markovic, that's not to say Markovic cannot do well but we've seen it's taken him a bit of time to settle.

This is all fair enough. Depay is a lot stockier than Markovic, but they are the same height. But Markovic can stock up, hopefully he does.

I agree you need proven players too but this goes back to my other point about Liverpool missing their window of opportunity. That 2nd place finish combined with the Suarez cash was the best platform for Liverpool to find a Suarez replacement and look at gaining another quality player too. Proven players generally desire CL football and money (of course history etc can play a role with clubs like Liverpool and United) so with this in mind you have to admit that Liverpool really missed the boat last summer. They missed out on bigger names (again not as simple I know) which has made this window practically impossible for the club to fulfil the needs of the squad and in some ways the fan's expectations. They need quality but with a 5th place spot likely, and less cash than other top 4 clubs does Liverpool really offer anything that United, Chelsea, Arsenal or City could not? I don't wish to be disrespectful, most of you know despite the rivalry I admire Liverpool in many ways, but objectively speaking I cannot think of any reason a pre-made player, one of top quality, would wish to join you, and also Liverpool in recent history have never gone out and done that.[/QUpte]

But this comes back to being financially prudent. We can't afford to spend 60m on a player and get the return that Di Maria brought to Utd. We can barely afford to spend 30m anymore with FFP and the restrictions of the transfer committee. Building a team like the way Atletico and Dortmund have is the only way of doing it anymore, especially considering we do not have the financial power that others have.

The whole scenario looks like Liverpool will be forced into developing talent, which has always been the intention, only the downside is that when you sell what you build you have to re-build. This puts a lot of pressure on the club because sometimes you mix the cement wrong and the house falls down.

Yes, but we have to do it. No other way in my opinion.

This coming window for me has a bit of that feeling, it reminds me a lot of United's summer just gone, it was time we had to make a statement and regardless of performance of the players we signed, Di Maria certainly did that.

I doubt Liverpool can do the same.

Agreed, but I would be very annoyed should we go out and drop 60m on a player. There is a plan, and we should abide by it.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

You say that as if Falcao was playing in some unknown league in the middle of nowhere. They were both proven players before signing' date=' Balotelli has attitude issues, whilst Falcao has injury issues.

[/quote']

Where is Origi? playing in some unknown league in the middle of nowhere - that useful for his career

Falcao had great proven scoring record, LVG gamble

We all knew what balotelli like

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I'm just saying that you're using Suarez as a point that Depay will be good in the Premier League meaning that it is a comparison' date=' and I am merely pointing out to you that Depay has a long way to go to become half the player Suarez is.

Their skill sets are different, which means that although Suarez adapted very well to English football does not mean Depay will. Even players with the physicality like Altidore struggled mightily in the Premier League.[/quote']

Ahh you've misread my post, unintentionally I assume.

I never used Suarez to say Depay will be good in the Premier League in fact my entire opinion on how people view such things is quite the opposite. I used Suarez to counter the suggestion that Eredivisie players do not do well in the PL however I also stated that generally it is silly to even attempt to say that they will be good or bad based on their league. Essentially I used Suarez to disprove something I disagree with (as an example of a Dutch league player who did well) and then used him as an example as to why judging based on past league is not good measure of talent.

I cannot say Depay will do well in the PL or poorly based on his previous league however I can judge it based on his physical attributes to see if they will compliment the side he is joining which they will. As far as I'm concerned Luis Suarez has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on Depay or his chances of success equally nor does the fortune of Bony, RVN, Altidore or any other player you may think of. Hopefully that is clear now.

I'd be extremely surprised if you guys got more than 15m for RvP. And who would buy van Persie anyway? Not anyone in the Premier League' date=' not anyone in La Liga, Inter Milan perhaps? It's not like he'll leave his comfortable wages in United any time soon.[/quote']

Me too but I never really gave an indication of the fee. I'd be happy with anything north of £15m due to his age. Given he only cost £24m a few seasons back that isn't too bad a loss for a club like United considering he won us a league title and his age.

I'd imagine a few Italian sides would be sniffing around him for sure. He's still a quality player just now no longer in the right set up.

You're playing a bit too much FIFA/FM recently haven't you. :P

Gareth + Lacazette would be extremely good' date=' but extremely unlikely as well. I don't get the excuse of getting your house broken into. It hurts, but surely it doesn't cause a six month slump. It just shows that Di Maria does not have the mental makeup of a world class superstar.[/quote']

Yes :o

I've said on the United thread those two would be most United fan's dream signings (that are at least 2% possible :P).

I really don't think you can trivialise a house break. He was in a new country with his young family a completely different culture to what he's used to and his home is invaded. At least 1/3 of people suffer from PTSD (admittedly very low level) after a burglary (figures are likely higher). It really does affect people more than you think and is not something I would criticise anyone for being affected by.

Stats are deceiving however' date=' and Di Maria has been poor for his price. His performances are nowhere near what you'd expect for a 60m player, and some of his assists are barely "assists," but stats-wise they still count. He's still a fantastic player regardless, and I think a move to PSG would put him back at his pre-World Cup levels.

This is not directed at you personally Ben, but I see a lot of United fans saying to give Di Maria another season to prove himself, yet the same fans are slating Lallana, Markovic etc. Why not give them all the benefit of the doubt, and give them anotehr season. There is a double standard here isn't there?[/quote']

I did say he had been poor value for money but an assist is an assist. As I say I think he's a very quality player and should be given another season. I guess the difference between him and Lallana is they have never shown signs of being at Di Maria's level before and did not have to adjust to a new culture as much.

I think they have equally been slated by Liverpool and other fans too because they have under performed or been slow to show progression for various reasons. Many expected Lallana to be a key player for Liverpool given his time at Southampton.

They should both get another season, they've not been so bad as to completely give up on either and anyone suggesting that would need to have a surprisingly compelling argument as to why.

But this comes back to being financially prudent. We can't afford to spend 60m on a player and get the return that Di Maria brought to Utd. We can barely afford to spend 30m anymore with FFP and the restrictions of the transfer committee. Building a team like the way Atletico and Dortmund have is the only way of doing it anymore' date=' especially considering we do not have the financial power that others have.[/quote']

Exactly, last season you could have done, you had the Suarez money and 2nd place that gave you the unusual opportunity to splash a bit of cash and get someone near to Suarez's level.

Now that won't happen for a very long time IMO. The model works if the team can be successful but teams can only be successful with very good players.

Unfortunately Dortmund this summer will show us all what happens to clubs like Liverpool who don't buy big but develop when you don't get everything right all the time.

Yes' date=' but we have to do it. No other way in my opinion.

Agreed, but I would be very annoyed should we go out and drop 60m on a player. There is a plan, and we should abide by it.[/quote']

The thing is if your club did make a £60m+ signing last season like Di Maria to replace Suarez I reckon you'd have been happy. This season though I understand your concern.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Where is Origi? playing in some unknown league in the middle of nowhere - that useful for his career

Falcao had great proven scoring record' date=' LVG gamble

We all knew what balotelli like[/quote']

I don't think I've brought up Origi once.

And I suggest you use your brain to re-read what I said. Read it again. Just do it. Read it again. Having comprehension skills is vital. It's not even me being sarcastic or anything. Just read the Falcao bit again.

Ahh you've misread my post' date=' unintentionally I assume.

I never used Suarez to say Depay will be good in the Premier League in fact my entire opinion on how people view such things is quite the opposite. I used Suarez to counter the suggestion that Eredivisie players do not do well in the PL however I also stated that generally it is silly to even attempt to say that they will be good or bad based on their league. Essentially I used Suarez to disprove something I disagree with (as an example of a Dutch league player who did well) and then used him as an example as to why judging based on past league is not good measure of talent.

I cannot say Depay will do well in the PL or poorly based on his previous league however I can judge it based on his physical attributes to see if they will compliment the side he is joining which they will. As far as I'm concerned Luis Suarez has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on Depay or his chances of success equally nor does the fortune of Bony, RVN, Altidore or any other player you may think of. Hopefully that is clear now.[/quote']

Ok we've cleared that up. We're both on the same page them. Could be Suarez, could be Altidore. Who knows.

Me too but I never really gave an indication of the fee. I'd be happy with anything north of £15m due to his age. Given he only cost £24m a few seasons back that isn't too bad a loss for a club like United considering he won us a league title and his age.

I'd imagine a few Italian sides would be sniffing around him for sure. He's still a quality player just now no longer in the right set up.

Yeah this is what I was saying. I doubt you guys could get 15m for RVP. He is talented sure, but got brittle ankles and is always out injured. He is a far cry from the player he was two years ago, that's for sure.

Yes :o

I've said on the United thread those two would be most United fan's dream signings (that are at least 2% possible :P).

I really don't think you can trivialise a house break. He was in a new country with his young family a completely different culture to what he's used to and his home is invaded. At least 1/3 of people suffer from PTSD (admittedly very low level) after a burglary (figures are likely higher). It really does affect people more than you think and is not something I would criticise anyone for being affected by.

I remember a year when half the Liverpool team got their houses broken into. It's not the best thing to go through, especially when you're in a new country, but it isn't as serious as people make it out to be.

From a materialistic point, obviously ADM wouldn't feel much loss, but I know from a psychological and safety point of view, there are a few things that would go wrong if your house was broken into. I'm not trivialising it as much as saying I don't believe that it should be an excuse for his poor performances six months on.

I did say he had been poor value for money but an assist is an assist. As I say I think he's a very quality player and should be given another season. I guess the difference between him and Lallana is they have never shown signs of being at Di Maria's level before and did not have to adjust to a new culture as much.

I think they have equally been slated by Liverpool and other fans too because they have under performed or been slow to show progression for various reasons. Many expected Lallana to be a key player for Liverpool given his time at Southampton.

They should both get another season, they've not been so bad as to completely give up on either and anyone suggesting that would need to have a surprisingly compelling argument as to why.

Agreed.

Exactly, last season you could have done, you had the Suarez money and 2nd place that gave you the unusual opportunity to splash a bit of cash and get someone near to Suarez's level.

Now that won't happen for a very long time IMO. The model works if the team can be successful but teams can only be successful with very good players.

Unfortunately Dortmund this summer will show us all what happens to clubs like Liverpool who don't buy big but develop when you don't get everything right all the time.

Agreed. But we can't buy big, so we have to stick with the Atletico-Dortmund model anyway. And I like the model. Spending big does not necessitate success and can push a team back years.

The thing is if your club did make a £60m+ signing last season like Di Maria to replace Suarez I reckon you'd have been happy. This season though I understand your concern.

Oh I would have been over the moon had we signed someone with Di Maria's quality. But this season absolutely not.

I must say that discussing football matters with you Ben is a nice reprieve from having to deal with people who either cannot read or simply just try to annoy everyone on this thread.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

And look what how it turned up! You only signed Di Maria because PSG couldn't buy him at the time' date=' simple! And you brought in Falcao because nobody else wanted to risk it for the sum. Two greedy mofos i may add, not all players are like that, money over CL...

Yes, you did compare, no need to go around denying it now! We all get it, it was stupid, lets move on![/quote']

Cannot judge di Maria whether he has been a success or not, let's give another season and then we'll season, Though I doubt he'll get that season.

Yes I did, and it was stupid. Case closed.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Where is Origi? playing in some unknown league in the middle of nowhere - that useful for his career

Falcao had great proven scoring record' date=' LVG gamble

We all knew what balotelli like[/quote']

Firstly, I brought up Origi, not Tom.

Secondly, the Ligue 1 is not an unknown league, and Lille are far from unknown either. At least speak with some sense and intelligence.

Yes, LvG took a gamble which failed. At least Falcao was a proven goal-scorer rather than Balo.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Where is Origi? playing in some unknown league in the middle of nowhere - that useful for his career

Falcao had great proven scoring record' date=' LVG gamble

We all knew what balotelli like[/quote']

I love United as much as humanly possible, but comments of this intelligence are far too common from our fans on the internet... meh :(

however, in general comments on football forums from any fans on an opposing teams thread are just cringe-worthy, nine times out of ten, then just chalked off as 'banter'. slightly off-topic, sorry.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

The question for tonight though is do we stick with 4 at the back which generally results in a dull low tempo performance or do we go with the 3 which outplayed Chelsea last time, but has had its flaws exposed badly against other top teams.

To be honest I think 3-4-3 may not be a bad idea. The reason it worked was teams didn't no had to deal with a different system and it might catch Chelsea off guard in the early stages as we've been back to the 4-3-3 in recent games. If we can get an early goal that will change the game and Chelsea will be forced to push up higher giving more space for Sterling, Ibe, Markovic and Lallana to an extent to get in behind. If Chelsea go ahead first I can't see us getting close to scoring though.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

The question for tonight though is do we stick with 4 at the back which generally results in a dull low tempo performance or do we go with the 3 which outplayed Chelsea last time' date=' but has had its flaws exposed badly against other top teams.

To be honest I think 3-4-3 may not be a bad idea. The reason it worked was teams didn't no had to deal with a different system and it might catch Chelsea off guard in the early stages as we've been back to the 4-3-3 in recent games. If we can get an early goal that will change the game and Chelsea will be forced to push up higher giving more space for Sterling, Ibe, Markovic and Lallana to an extent to get in behind. If Chelsea go ahead first I can't see us getting close to scoring though.[/quote']

todays game also depends on how hungry Chelsea are too I think.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

could be the best or worst time to catch us, will we be in party mode and just playing to make up the numbers or will we just let loose with the flair we had early on in the season? would imagine Remy, RLC, Cuadrado and whom ever else gets an opportunity will be hungry to impress.

Iva - Zouma - Terry - Luis

RLC - Matic/Mikel

Cuadrado - Cesc/Willian - Hazard

Solanke/Remy

Im tipping something like this. Mou already stated Terry and Iva have requested to play all 38 games and i cant see Hazard wanting to or being rested. Ake, Solanke, Izzy Brown and potentially Musonda on the bench to pick from should opportunity present itself.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

All I can do is hope that whoever plays has shockers. Heard that Loftus-Cheek is alright though.

4th place is gone so I really don't think whatever line up takes place matters, I would be very surprised if Moaninho plays anything but a really strong XI.

Loftus Cheek is a great player I have seen him live a few times in the youth game arena when Chelsea have played Liverpool and e kid has serious talent, for me he has the most chance of any Chelsea youngster to become anywhere near a regular/semi-regular starter.

Going to the game which is unfortunate as going to have to listen to all the facists milking the guard of (dis)honour

That bit is going to be painful :P

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

We're going to get battered and Terry is going to be babysitting. :P

Sooner the transfer window is open and we can sign top class, championship league players like Ings and Bolasie the better!

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

We're going to get battered and Terry is going to be babysitting. :P

Sooner the transfer window is open and we can sign top class' date=' champions league players[/b'] like Ings and Bolasie the better!

Bolasie and Ings ain't top class or champs league players

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Knowing Liverpool they will go after them this summer' date=' kkinda hard to tell if it is[/quote']

What are you talking about we are going to sign Reus, Benzema and Blaise Matuidi. Rumours in the Echo are that Thiago Silva has already told PSG he wants to come to us.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

We're going to get battered and Terry is going to be babysitting. :P

Sooner the transfer window is open and we can sign top class' date=' championship league players like Ings and Bolasie the better!

That sarcasm :D

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Pool need a new stadium with a roof to attract top players from South America. That should be priority nr.1.

Yes and once they build it (if they get the money and the space), they will be financially crippled for the next decade. Happened with Arsenal. Money does not float on trees. Forget South American, they won't have the cash to get top players of whichever nationality.

Why South American anyway? And do South Americans need a roof to play? LOL

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