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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Good result, decent performance and 3points.

Cant ask for more than that really and for once showed decent determination and charachter to bounce back from going behind especially given the circumstances. Amazing what a goal does, suddenly Torres looked interested

Bolton are a very decent side now but whatever game anyone else was watching I thought we played fairly well not great but well, and deserved the points.

Win our game in hand and we are a point off 6th, which realistically as I said at the start of the season is the highest we can possibly finish......fine margins indeed

Unfortunatly that game is away :P

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I would guess he is probably right and it's clear many fans were dubious of his appointment from the offset. I wouldn't however say that they didn't back him or turned against him' date=' he was given a fair crack. The point is you can think like that as a manager, but you certainly shouldn't be making a statement questioning the fans backing of the team in a post-match interview. That was simply foolhardy and as far as I'm aware no top manager (or any manager in fact) would make such a blatant claim. Hence his backtracking was understandable and I'm surprised you feel he shouldn't have done so (in an earlier post of yours I read) and that you were disappointed he did so. Not many managers last in the job when they have so blatantly questioned the fans backing. It was the logical thing to do if honestly feels he wants to maintain a future at the club.[/quote']

I agree he shouldn't have made the statement; it was stupid. However, having made the statement doesn't retracting it feel a bit hollow? It's obvious he still believes what he said and it seems he's taken it back for peace of mind. I'd have much preferred if he'd apologised for any offence caused but stood by the body of his statement as it's clear he intended it and most of it is understandable. I'm not sure if he questioned the fans backing or more their acceptance of his appointment. Perhaps I value and expect moral and integrity far more than anyone in football :P

IMO Burs has this one right. The support of the manager has to be earned @ this club.

Really? When Mancini came in at City (in similar circumstances to yours now really only Hughes had more time) everyone was fully behind him. Some didn't know who he was and some didn't particularly like his defensive brand of football but he got full support from day one. IMO the fans support should be something you start with and try not to lose rather than something you have to earn.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Really? When Mancini came in at City (in similar circumstances to yours now really only Hughes had more time) everyone was fully behind him. Some didn't know who he was and some didn't particularly like his defensive brand of football but he got full support from day one. IMO the fans support should be something you start with and try not to lose rather than something you have to earn.

The way that I see this is that most of us other than that "Camp 1" that I described a post earlier' date=' we were all willing to give Hodgson a fair shake regardless whether or not we thought he was qualified for the job.

[b']And for the most part I believe that many people did indeed give him a very VERY fair shake.[/b]

Keep in mind it wasn't the fans or Henry who said that we should only start judging Roy after 10 games, it was Hodgson himself who said this. The results didn't go his way, so then in October he publicaly moved the time-frame to judge him to Boxing Day. The supporters & NESV didn't. He did. Okay fair enough. Then in December the results didn't look like they were going to go his way, so now he's talking about until May. Okay, whatever...

Whether or not people believed in Hodgson's abilities to manage Liverpool or not, all except a very very small minority fully supported the Team this year under his leadership. We wanted/want him to succeed here. That does not mean that people went out and sang his name in the Kop on Match Day 1, (full disclosure I haven't been to Anfield this season yet), but there is no way that that would have happened. I made the cross-Atlantic trip to Anfield a 9 times in the 2004/05 season and I don't remember even ONCE seeing a banner with the new manager's clean-shaven mug on it and I don't remember hearing one Benitez tune being sung. Shouldn't be any different now.

As far as them finally mockingly singing Hodgson's name in The Kop this week ("Hodgson for England"), well.... I don't necessarily agree with it, but I believe they can do whatever they want to do. Not because they paid for the seat so they have the right to do what they want, but rather because most of these people have been on the front-line of the Hicks/GG war, and I can understand if emotions are frayed. Furthermore it's not like they did this in October.... after the worst start for a Liverpool team in 60 years these emotionally frayed people still had the decency to wait until Boxing Day!

In some regards, the supporters followed Henry/NESV's lead. On Nov 15th Henry came out and said the following :

"The club has gone through a very difficult period and the period has not ended. We saw a certain team on the field against Chelsea last week that showed what they can do. We also know how competitive the EPL is this year. There are no guaranteed matches any longer for any club. This club can be better. Blaming the manager or any one particular player is simply wrong. This club needs to play up to their potential every match. If they don't, they won't win."

Did Henry fully come out and support the manager...? No. But he certainly stood up for him. In his own way was he conveying to the Liverpool supporters that the problems at the Club are much bigger than the manager or any under-performing players. Look no further than the dismissal of the Head Scout last week, for proof of that.

And IMO, the supporters understood what he was saying... (i.e. "We're assessing this situation and come to a decision on Hodgson in January").

So January is upon us and...

(1)
Hodgson's own suggested time frame for us judging him is up

(2)
Henry & Comolli have had a few months to work with the guy & players and to do their own due diligence on the situation

Most supporters don't care about point #1, but most all do about point #2.

I think that what has come out at the last 2 matches of the first-half of the season is nothing more than the supporters now publicly saying @Anfield that their patience has worn thin. And they are anticipating the decision that is going to be made by Henry/Comolli.

Over the next few weeks, I expect a public statement one way or another on Hodgson remaining as manager. And I wouldn't be surprised if Henry/Werner/Comolli do it in conjunction with the naming of a CEO.

If Henry/Werner/Comolli come out in support of Hodgson until the end of the season, then I will understand that regardless how much I disagree with the decision that he'll be here until then. That doesn't mean I or anyone else is going to sing his name @ 11th Street Bar in NYC or in The Kop, it just means that I'll continue to back the team under his management.

.

Aside: And for what it's worth, comparing Mancini/City with Hodgson/Liverpool isn't a great comparison IMO. City is a club historically WITHOUT anything close to a winning culture who hired a manager who had won big things. Liverpool is a club WITH a winning culture who hired a manager who hadn't won anything (let alone proved himself at this level of club/players). Needless to say the supporters @ both clubs picked up on this fact from Day 1, too. From the start, it gave one set of fans (City) optimism, while it made another set of fans (LFC) skeptical.

.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

http://inthemixer.tumblr.com/post/1258885096/the-new-submissive-liverpool-fc-under-roy-hodgson

The link above probably explains the reason why the majoroty of Liverpool fans are so unhappy with Hodgson. I have not posted this to harp back to Rafa's era; what it should highlight is the difference in styles that the two managers set out to play and why one is more in the ethos of "pass and move" that Liverpool fans have been brought up with.

It also may serve to identify why the likes of Torres and others are not performing to their full potential.

Anyway, read and let me know your thoughts.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

It also may serve to identify why the likes of Torres and others are not performing to their full potential.

in all comps:

torres at international level scores 0.32 goals per game

at atletico it was 0.37 goals per game (best was 0.53 in 03/04' date=' worst was 0.19 in 01/02)

at rafa's liverpool it was 0.62 goals per game (best was 0.71 in 07/08, worst was 0.45 in 08/09)

at hodgson's liverpool it is 0.3 goals per game

[b']

in the league:[/b]

at atletico it was 0.38 goals per game (worst was 0.17 gpg in 01/02 in the segunda, best 0.54 gpg in 03/04)

at rafa's liverpool it was 0.71 goals per game (best was 09/10 with 0.82 gpg, his worst the year before with 0.58 gpg)

at hodgson's liverpool it is 0.33 goals per game

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

But I truly hope there isn't any organized boycott going on as that would be COMPLETELY counter-productive to Liverpool FC.

think its more due to how things are on the pitch and people not bothering - on quite a few of the forums it appears that a lot of STs didnt bother, and when you consider that quite a lot of people come from down south who are STs and the irish who come over too and they're shelling out £100+ to come to the game, well who can blame them for swerving it tbh

btw last seasons attendance was around the 43k mark and that was largely down to bolton bringing 10 fans as usual on their annual trip to anfield, and that was also a 3pm saturday KO

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

in all comps:

torres at international level scores 0.32 goals per game

at atletico it was 0.37 goals per game (best was 0.53 in 03/04' date=' worst was 0.19 in 01/02)

at rafa's liverpool it was 0.62 goals per game (best was 0.71 in 07/08, worst was 0.45 in 08/09)

at hodgson's liverpool it is 0.3 goals per game

[b']

in the league:[/b]

at atletico it was 0.38 goals per game (worst was 0.17 gpg in 01/02 in the segunda, best 0.54 gpg in 03/04)

at rafa's liverpool it was 0.71 goals per game (best was 09/10 with 0.82 gpg, his worst the year before with 0.58 gpg)

at hodgson's liverpool it is 0.33 goals per game

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/12/fernando-torres-the-first-16-games-2007-2010/

Perhaps futher evidence of Hodgson's approach not bringing out the best in some of the players. This one highlighting that Torres is spending way to much time in deeper positions.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Torres is becomming like Drogba for me. He has all the abillity and the talent to be the best in the world. But he can't take the slightest thing not going his way.

Is it just coincidence that all his brilliant performances come when the world is watching in the glamourous games against Chelsa, Man Utd and Real Madrid etc, then regular league games against weaker teams if the linesman flags him offside he throws a strop.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I don't think you can blame Torres' poor form on Hodgson (completely at least). It stems from a poor World Cup before the guy even took charge. Gerrard is the same. Players do go through poor patches of form. When you rely on 2/3 of them for results this becomes a problem :o

I agree that his form early on in the season was hampered by his injury disrupting the end of last season and the world cup, but I think its fairly obvious that he's not a target man and the amount of goals he got under Benitez was a direct result of him having a certain tactical set up ie further up the pitch with the midfield pressing the opponent high up the pitch as opposed to bringing the ball under control from balls played out from the defence over the midfields heads...

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Torres is becomming like Drogba for me. He has all the abillity and the talent to be the best in the world. But he can't take the slightest thing not going his way.

Is it just coincidence that all his brilliant performances come when the world is watching in the glamourous games against Chelsa' date=' Man Utd and Real Madrid etc, then regular league games against weaker teams if the linesman flags him offside he throws a strop.[/quote']

I just can't agree that its petulance. He is being starved of the service he has been used to receiving under a different tactical approach - he's being asked to perform a different role accordingly, which is resulting in less goal chances. And yes, my body language would be pretty negative seeing another ball humped high in the air awaiting me to contest a header with the defender with my back at goal when my strength is with the ball at my feet in and around the 18 yard box.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I just can't agree that its petulance. He is being starved of the service he has been used to receiving under a different tactical approach - he's being asked to perform a different role accordingly' date=' which is resulting in less goal chances. And yes, my body language would be pretty negative [b']seeing another ball humped high in the air awaiting me to contest a header with the defender with my back at goal when my strength is with the ball at my feet in and around the 18 yard box[/b].

Thats the thing!! IMO he is not a CF who relys on balls being booted towards him and is not the type who will want to outmuscle defenders aswell. Yes he is physically strong, but as you said, he best in and around the 18 yard box. He's a complete striker but we will only get the best out of him when he has players around him.

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Thats the thing!! IMO he is not a CF who relys on balls being booted towards him and is not the type who will want to outmuscle defenders aswell. Yes he is physically strong' date=' but as you said, he best in and around the 18 yard box. He's a complete striker but we will only get the best out of him when he has players around him.[/quote']

I agree we need more players of a world class standard like him, but the 1st XI we can put out; if set up correctly with the right tactics are far better than what we're showing this season. The squad only differs from the one that finshed 2nd two seasons ago in first team regular terms by Mascherano. Benitez struggled last season, and those woes have continued even further under Hodgson, but the team itself is not as bad as the performances and results suggest.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Looking at the players we have been linked to and the positions we need I would if we got most of them (which won't happen) we would have a 'top 4' team. at the moment I feel that Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City and Tottenham all have better squads than us.

CB- Mertesacker

LB- Not sure on this but that French guy Marveuax or something like that I think can play there

CM- M'Vila

Wing- Elia

Forward- Suarez, Sturridge

And that was an interestint read Suso

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I agree we need more players of a world class standard like him' date=' but the 1st XI we can put out; if set up correctly with the right tactics are far better than what we're showing this season. The squad only differs from the one that finshed 2nd two seasons ago in first team regular terms by Mascherano. Benitez struggled last season, and those woes have continued even further under Hodgson, but the team itself is not as bad as the performances and results suggest.[/quote']

It wont really be a problem at all

Both Torres and Reina have clauses in there contracty allowing them to leave if we dont get Champions League Football....they wont be here next season, cant see them staying. Id be more optimistic on Pepe than Fernando

Really the fault of Purslow, whoever does the contracts because be honest we were never gunna make it, we aint good enough for top four, nowhere near good enough

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It wont really be a problem at all

Both Torres and Reina have clauses in there contracty allowing them to leave if we dont get Champions League Football....they wont be here next season' date=' cant see them staying. Id be more optimistic on Pepe than Fernando

Really the fault of Purslow, whoever does the contracts because be honest we were never gunna make it, we aint good enough for top four, nowhere near good enough[/quote']

Reina recently told Football365.com he had no intentions of leaving Anfield :confused: I agree it's Purslow's fault.

We just need a few good players who will be potentially be leading stars in the Premiership, not sh*tty players like Konchesky, Poulsen.

Hodgson should really regret letting Riera leave, Insua left on loan. They've been playing under Benitez for 1-2 seasons and it's sad to see them leave, they're good players who can do well if their playtime is enough.

We should buy a good defender who can adapt well quickly and form a good partnership with Carragher/Agger. A good ball winning midfielder and a good striker to form a partnership with Torres or maybe a back-up. Even a winger would be great too.

Speaking of ball-winning midfielders, Mascherano, who left us for 20million, is always on the bench now for Barca and I feel he'll regret soon enough. Benayoun, now sidelined for injury, I don't think he'll play regularly for Chelsea once he returns.

Hodgson should leave, I think a good candidate would be Rangwick or maybe even Deschamps. He can only be as a manager until maybe June, even give him the sack now would be better, and make Dalglish the manager for the remainder 3-4 months.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Looking at the players we have been linked to and the positions we need I would if we got most of them (which won't happen) we would have a 'top 4' team. at the moment I feel that Man Utd' date=' Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City and Tottenham all have better squads than us.

CB- Mertesacker

LB- Not sure on this but that French guy Marveuax or something like that I think can play there

CM- M'Vila

Wing- Elia

Forward- Suarez, Sturridge

And that was an interestint read Suso[/quote']

Im sorry but i dont agree with what you said, we need none of them players that you listed bar Per(who were never gonna get). Dont like the idea of playing a natural winger at lb(Marveux) altho it does look as tho we'll sign him. We dont need Mvila as we have Lucas. Why get Elia when we already have wingers such as Babel and Amoo(the point i want to make is we need a winger who is real good, i dont think Elia will be such an upgrade, id rather we played Johnson there). Suarez imo is not EPL material and we dont need Sturridge as we have N'Goals.

It wont really be a problem at all

Both Torres and Reina have clauses in there contracty allowing them to leave if we dont get Champions League Football....they wont be here next season' date=' cant see them staying. Id be more optimistic on Pepe than Fernando

[/quote']

:eek: Didnt know that till now, i think i might be the only one but i think both of them could stay, it all depends on the way our season finishes and IF we'll be in the hunt for top players in the summer.

We should buy a good defender who can adapt well quickly and form a good partnership with Carragher/Agger. A good ball winning midfielder and a good striker to form a partnership with Torres or maybe a back-up. Even a winger would be great too.

Hodgson should leave' date=' I think a good candidate would be Rangwick or maybe even Deschamps. He can only be as a manager until maybe June, even give him the sack now would be better, and make Dalglish the manager for the remainder 3-4 months.[/quote']

Agree, we firstly need a quality cb, bar rb(as i think kelly is good enough) we need a whole new backline(skrtel out plz:rolleyes:). As for a manager, still noone has convinced me there is someone better out there than Hiddink.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Excellent read' date=' cheers for that.[/quote']

A slightly one way piece if ever I have read one

Personally if you are looking in Germany the Borussia Dortmund manager seems more inclined and more worthy so to speak of the Liverpool job. Look at the way Dortmund have played this season and the way he personally has taken a massive step in developing youngsters of immense quality such as Hummels,Subotic,Gotze (That boy is pure class-the next big thing) whilst also bringing in others on small fees such as Kagawa and moulding them into a free-flowing passing, exciting team. I have watched lots of Dortmund this season and they play some fantastic football.

I also feel it may be a realistic aim come the end of the season and if Roy is to go now (dont want another debate before anyone starts) im pretty sure from all the noises in and around the local press NESV are only looking at a stop-gap until the summer when they can make there own appointment and many more "options" may open up.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

A slightly one way piece if ever I have read one

Personally if you are looking in Germany the Borussia Dortmund manager seems more inclined and more worthy so to speak of the Liverpool job. Look at the way Dortmund have played this season and the way he personally has taken a massive step in developing youngsters of immense quality such as Hummels' date='Subotic,Gotze (That boy is pure class-the next big thing) whilst also bringing in others on small fees such as Kagawa and moulding them into a free-flowing passing, exciting team. I have watched lots of Dortmund this season and they play some fantastic football.

I also feel it may be a realistic aim come the end of the season and if Roy is to go now (dont want another debate before anyone starts) im pretty sure from all the noises in and around the local press NESV are only looking at a stop-gap until the summer when they can make there own appointment and many more "options" may open up.[/quote']

Apparently Jürgen Klopp was approached to the Liverpool job but he turned it down.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Do you guys have money to spend in January? I know you have new owners but that doesn't necessarily mean big signings :o

My guess would be that whether there's money or not, there won't be big signings. You might have heard about Sylvain Marveaux being linked with us and that he was at the Wolves game but after that there has been rumours that he'd sign a pre-contract agreement and would come next summer instead of now.

I think we have money to spend but I'm not sure if the right players are available so we may not spend much. I'm expecting us to have a lot of money next summer, though.

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