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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Dont start belittling me because I have a different opinion.

I make my own choices' date=' dont conform with the majority just to be seen as being more "knowledgeable" in there eyes.

Rafa has as much culpability as anybody for our demise.

Rafa didnt do good with players last year and I have never said Hodgson has done well this season, find a quote where I have said that, you wont because I never have.

Going down Burs route are you and making up "quotes and opinions of mine are you"??[/quote']

Sorry, but isn't that what you do to people like burs on a regular basis?

And then when someone (earlier on) posts something you agree with, it is automatically the 'most accurate' post you've seen in a while.

C'mon Ray.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

find me even 3 games where we played like we have this season.

find me some results where teams like Wolves and Blackpool destroyed us at home and out classed us.

I could name loads of pathetic performances last season....

Reading at Home

Wigan Away

Pompey away instantly spring to mind

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Dont start belittling me because I have a different opinion.

I make my own choices' date=' dont conform with the majority just to be seen as being more "knowledgeable" in there eyes.[/quote']

It was just a joke dude I thought we were adults and ALL lfc fans.

Rafa has as much culpability as anybody for our demise.

Agreed from last season.

Rafa didnt do good with players last year and I have never said Hodgson has done well this season' date=' find a quote where I have said that, you wont because I never have.[/quote']

Again thats going around the point, you said Hodgson never had the tools available and the reason we are so bad is the players and not really the manager (im pretty sure you have said something similar to this MANY times, maybe not word for word but pretty much the same right? which still would fit into my question I asked you 3 times below.

Going down Burs route are you and making up "quotes and opinions of mine are you"??

Silly comment and I have already answered it above

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

;1315317']Sorry' date=' but isn't that what you do to people like burs on a regular basis?

And then when someone (earlier on) posts something you agree with, it is automatically the 'most accurate' post you've seen in a while.

C'mon Ray.[/quote']

Burs is the most deluded fan ever, his "love" of Rafa and refusal to accept he has anything to do with our demise is not only wrong but laughable

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

oh and one thing re this/last season - torres and gerrard played just over half the games last season, this year they've only missed a few so with those two available for most of his tenure hodgson managed to do so much worse??

the media really is so powerful in this country isnt it?

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

It was just a joke dude I thought we were adults and ALL lfc fans.

Agreed from last season.

Again thats going around the point' date=' you said Hodgson never had the tools available and the reason we are so bad is the players and not really the manager (im pretty sure you have said something similar to this MANY times, maybe not word for word but pretty much the same right? which still would fit into my question I asked you 3 times below.

Silly comment and I have already answered it above[/quote']

How is it going round the point Rafa had millions to spend, Hodgson did not had a penny to spend, Rafa had 5years Hodgson six months....those arent opinions thats fact and we know how Rafa loves his facts

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Burs is the most deluded fan ever' date=' his "love" of Rafa and refusal to accept he has anything to do with our demise is not only wrong but laughable[/quote']

i've never said he shouldnt take responsibility, what i have said that he shouldnt take responsibility for the team being this bad as he didnt leave behind a team that should be in the bottom half, did he? and btw have a look at the lineups of the teams that beat madrid 4-0 and the mancs 4-1 and you'll see that most of those players are still here, so it wasnt in any way a 'poor' squad he left behind, it was one that underachieved to due various factors (injuries/managers/ownership)

funny thing is you accuse me of making things up yet you are the only one who seems to be doing that with myself and others

and as for my 'rafa love', your 'gerrard/carragher/purslow/hodgson' love is just way more embarrassing, especially the latter two who've caused untold amounts of damage to this club

Hodgson did not had a penny to spend

funny that, seem to remember him wasting £13m on poulsen, jones and konchesky right, so it makes sense to give him more money to spend right? and at least when rafa wasted money they were still young enough/had a big enough reputation for him to be able to get rid quickly whereas with the likes of those three we will be stuck with them for a long time unless someone else is dumb enough to pay the likes of konchesky and poulsen £50k a week

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Burs is the most deluded fan ever' date=' his "love" of Rafa and refusal to accept he has anything to do with our demise is not only wrong but laughable[/quote']

On the other hand, you have a hatred for Rafa which could also be viewed as wrong and laughable.

As Neller has said, last season Rafa had to go for one bad season (finishing 7th, not far off 4th) and it was because of the manager. THis season, Roy has us lingering just above relegation and suddenly all the players we have are below par.

You can't make up excuses, just to suit your hatred for Rafa.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

How is it going round the point Rafa had millions to spend' date=' Hodgson did not had a penny to spend, Rafa had 5years Hodgson six months....those arent opinions thats fact and we know how Rafa loves his facts[/quote']

thats still avoiding the question :)

Lets say Rafa spent 200mil last season (I aint getting into the money debate as I can still show some pretty good stuff on that in favour of Rafa)

but to save time lets say he wasted 200mil last season on 11 players (which he didnt)

Last season with those 11 players everyone (inc yourself constantly im sure (if not then must have been someone else) said with THOSE 11 players we should be doing much better, Rafa has lost the dressing room with them playing like they did

This season with the manager the media (and some LFC fans) wanted in charge with those SAME 11 players we all off a sudden have mid table players who shouldnt be playing for Liverpool.

It cant be both ways, I'm not defending the players Rafa bought im asking a simple thing like above, with the SAME team people are saying 1 manager did bad getting them nearly 4th place (2nd season before) and this manager isnt doing bad because we have BAD players, it really doesn't add up, maybe its just me.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

;1315332']On the other hand' date=' you have a hatred for Rafa which could also be viewed as wrong and laughable.

As Neller has said, last season Rafa had to go for one bad season (finishing 7th, not far off 4th) and it was because of the manager. THis season, Roy has us lingering just above relegation and suddenly all the players we have are below par.

You can't make up excuses, just to suit your hatred for Rafa.[/quote']

I dont hate Rafa, just complete bull when you lot make out he has not got major culpability for where we are.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I watch the full game of every game....be it at the ground or on the net/tv I dont need reminding of how bad they were I was at 2 of them and saw firsthand

Same I didnt mean that, but are you telling me say the reading game was as bad as our cup exit this season?

Are you saying Wigan and Pompey were even as close as bad as Blackpool and Wolves this season?

I could pick most our games this season within that bracket.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I dont hate Rafa' date=' just complete bull when you lot make out he has not got major culpability for where we are.[/quote']

We are not saying Rafa isnt partly to blame for the current squad (he bought them after all) , but he also did decent with them (we improved every season) barring last season and even then we just missed our on 4th after a shocking season by his standards from previous seasons.

But with those players we still nearly made 4th and won the Eufa (which I dont count much as its a dire comp imo) but yet Landed Hogdson this job (lets face it nothing else in his CV did)

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

The biggest difference is even last season when you were struggling clubs took Liverpool seriously. Even United when we faced Liverpool were always a bit nervous and itchy because Rafa set his teams out very well. This season you've become a big joke among fans. Fans expect to beat Liverpool (which was hardly ever the case even last season)

And I don't just speak for myself judging by some of the forums I've been on.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

The biggest difference is even last season when you were struggling clubs took Liverpool seriously. Even United when we faced Liverpool were always a bit nervous and itchy because Rafa set his teams out very well. This season you've become a big joke among fans. Fans expect to beat Liverpool (which was hardly ever the case even last season)

a manc is on a liverpool thread speaking huge amounts of sense - wow

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

paul merson has been slagging off johnno today, here is his response

glen_johnson

Comments from alcoholic drug abusers are not really gonna upset me and who is Paul Merson to jugde players, he was average at the best of times.

glen_johnson

He was average at the best of times, the only reason he's on that show is coz he gambled all his money away. The clown!

well in glen lad

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

It should be pretty obvious to all that @ the top Clubs it takes 2 days of agent/attorney negotiations to get a manager out.

This was the correct move and one that IMO Henry/Comolli/NESV knew they were going to make. It will also prove to be the easiest decision that they will have to make all year.

Personally I am intrigued by all the backroom negotiations that we aren't hearing about and aren't going to be privy to. Not so much with Hodgson's contract, but more so with the managers that Comolli is thinking about bringing on board.

They could have easily named Dalglish interim manager for a few games and that would have been fine. But they didn't do that. They took it a step further and said he will be here "for the remainder of the season."

This is what intrigues me...

Just think of all the negotiations that must have taken place with the various long-term targeted managers for Henry/Comolli/NESV to come to the conclusion that Dalglish would do it for the remainder of the season...

Furthermore, think of the negotiations that must have gone on with Kenny.

Oh dear. Dalglish is a real step up.
Spot on mate' date='I don't rate Roy at all but can't see Kenny making much of a difference[/color'],

The point IS NOT whether or not Dalglish is better than Hodgson.

Rather the point IS that with the appointment of Kenny Dalglish, Liverpool FC is now united from the fans to the players. This cannot be measured.

still once the 6 months go badly it should stop Liverpool fans clamouring for him and John Henry will also be liked from the fans for listening to them. If Henry/Werner thinks the season is over which I'm guessing they do then I can fully understand the decision' date='it's almost a win/win situation from there perspective.[/color'] Thing is Newcastle fans called deluded when Keegan came back but most people didn't want him back,Dalglish hasn't managed for 10 years after a brief stint at Celtic,football has changed hugely since then and I doubt he will make any impact at all to be honest aside from keeping most of the fans happy.

A few points on this post (^^^).

I take it that a lot of people still don't have any clue about John Henry or Tom Werner or NESV. I know that a lot of our fan-base still doesn't. And I am dead certain that a lot of fans of opposing clubs don't either.

Not to pick on Toonfan, I know what he is trying to get at in that post, but the above post couldn't be more wrong in it's assumptions.

(1) Henry/NESV don't throw seasons away. There is nothing in their Sports background that suggests this. There is nothing in their other businesses that suggest that they have ever taken that attitude. It's quite simply NOT how they operate. These guys are proven winners. They have more hardware in 8 years of owning the Red Sox (if you count divisional titles and wildcard berths) than Liverpool have in the past 20 (even if you count fluff Super Cups). In fact, they have a LOT more if you add in their Auto Racing team.

That should tell you that they have expectations from Kenny that he is going to win. Personally I believe those are realistic expectations. It's the most wide open EPL in two decades, there's no reason that we can't pull back a top-6 place even from this far back.

(2) Henry/NESV are never swayed by the fans. These are measured guys. I know this from their ownership of my baseball club, and furthermore I know this from dealing with some of the various NESV partners' firms in my day job. These guys are calculated. They measure things. They aren't swayed by outside opinion. It's not to say that they are slow to react.... far from it. But rather that they do their own work.

This was always going to be Comolli's call. In the power structure that NESV have put in place @Liverpool, the DOF holds all the cards. Comolli's The Man. Make no mistake about that. That said, Henry & Werner & Segura are going to have significant input and be involved in big decisions. But @ the end of the day it's Comolli's call.

Think about this from a top down view...

This was nothing more than a VERY VERY EASY DECISION about a vastly under-performing employee. Simple. It's one of the easiest decisions that a manager in any business is going to have.

If you are Henry/NESV and you just set up this new radical structure @ Liverpool, you are going to want to test it out. What better way to test it out and show your support of it, than with a VERY EASY personnel decision.

Comolli came on board on Nov 5. It took him 7 weeks to completely assess the Scouting department/network and to fire the Head Scout. 7 weeks of due diligence. It took him 9 weeks to do the same thing with the First Team manager. These are hardly unreasonable time-frames.

Probably more importantly than firing Hodgson is the fact that Henry/Werner/NESV proved to Comolli that they trust him and that they are going to work this new system. Anybody could have fired Hodgson. I could have. Konchesky's mom could have. But these guys worked within this new system (the same way they do in boston). Didn't listen to the clamoring fans, and simply did their own due diligence and assessment.

(3) The appointment of Kenny is much much more than simply appeasing the fans. I agree that it's a win/win, but for different reasons.

Bringing Dalglish back front and center settles everything @ the Club. EVERYTHING. Player Power finished. Local community @ ease. Hopefully we also see that on the pitch. It gives Academy targets and their families an immediate feeling of what this Club actually is and stands for. It starts to wipe away a lot of the damage and rot that has set in during the Moores & Hicks/GG 20 years.

I'll also be curious to see what it means in terms of the Stadium & January transfer targets.

Anyway....

RE: Hodgson : Not too concerned about him. He got his payday. He took a shot @ a big club and his methods didn't translate (regardless of the quality of players at his disposal).

For all intents-and-purposes Hodgson was hired as a safe choice and one that would steady the ship. I can't kill Purslow for hiring him. In the middle of a fierce financial storm brought on by Hicks/GG, Purslow likely went out to hire a safe choice and that's exactly what he did. Hodgson was brought on to steady the ship. Unfortunately that didn't happen for a whole host of reasons.

I don't blame Hodgson for taking the job, but quite frankly there was very little upside in him accepting it even if he was a success. He had SUCH a good thing going @ Fulham. We all know that his ideal job is as England manager and it seems that is where his sights are (and have been). IMO he didn't need to take the Liverpool job to be in strong contention for England. At 62 years old, he probably should have stayed where he was, but then again hindsight is 20/20.

I know a lot of people will say that Hodgson shouldn't have been hired in the first place based on past results, but in a weird way I am kind of glad that things work out as they have. Other than some obscene player contracts, the last visible personnel vestige of the Hicks/GG era is gone. Time to move forward anew.

Hodgson will land on his feet @ a bottom-half mid-table club and will do just fine. England WC2014 is likely out of the running for him, but once Harry gets fired after that WC debacle, he can step right in circa 2015.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

It should be pretty obvious to all that @ the top Clubs it takes 2 days of agent/attorney negotiations to get a manager out.

This was the correct move and one that IMO Henry/Comolli/NESV knew they were going to make. It will also prove to be the easiest decision that they will have to make all year.

Personally I am intrigued by all the backroom negotiations that we aren't hearing about and aren't going to be privy to. Not so much with Hodgson's contract' date=' but more so with the managers that Comolli is thinking about bringing on board.

They could have easily named Dalglish interim manager for a few games and that would have been fine. But they didn't do that. They took it a step further and said he will be here "for the remainder of the season."

This is what intrigues me...

Just think of all the negotiations that must have taken place with the various long-term targeted managers for Henry/Comolli/NESV to come to the conclusion that Dalglish would do it for the remainder of the season...

Furthermore, think of the negotiations that must have gone on with Kenny.

The point IS NOT whether or not Dalglish is better than Hodgson.

Rather the point IS that with the appointment of Kenny Dalglish, Liverpool FC is now united from the fans to the players. This cannot be measured.

A few points on this post (^^^).

I take it that a lot of people still don't have any clue about John Henry or Tom Werner or NESV. I know that a lot of our fan-base still doesn't. And I am dead certain that a lot of fans of opposing clubs don't either.

Not to pick on [i']Toonfan[/i], I know what he is trying to get at in that post, but the above post couldn't be more wrong in it's assumptions.

(1) Henry/NESV don't throw seasons away. There is nothing in their Sports background that suggests this. There is nothing in their other businesses that suggest that they have ever taken that attitude. It's quite simply NOT how they operate. These guys are proven winners. They have more hardware in 8 years of owning the Red Sox (if you count divisional titles and wildcard berths) than Liverpool have in the past 20 (even if you count fluff Super Cups). In fact, they have a LOT more if you add in their Auto Racing team.

That should tell you that they have expectations from Kenny that he is going to win. Personally I believe those are realistic expectations. It's the most wide open EPL in two decades, there's no reason that we can't pull back a top-6 place even from this far back.

(2) Henry/NESV are never swayed by the fans. These are measured guys. I know this from their ownership of my baseball club, and furthermore I know this from dealing with some of the various NESV partners' firms in my day job. These guys are calculated. They measure things. They aren't swayed by outside opinion. It's not to say that they are slow to react.... far from it. But rather that they do their own work.

This was always going to be Comolli's call. In the power structure that NESV have put in place @Liverpool, the DOF holds all the cards. Comolli's The Man. Make no mistake about that. That said, Henry & Werner & Segura are going to have significant input and be involved in big decisions. But @ the end of the day it's Comolli's call.

Think about this from a top down view...

This was nothing more than a VERY VERY EASY DECISION about a vastly under-performing employee. Simple. It's one of the easiest decisions that a manager in any business is going to have.

If you are Henry/NESV and you just set up this new radical structure @ Liverpool, you are going to want to test it out. What better way to test it out and show your support of it, than with a VERY EASY personnel decision.

Comolli came on board on Nov 5. It took him 7 weeks to completely assess the Scouting department/network and to fire the Head Scout. 7 weeks of due diligence. It took him 9 weeks to do the same thing with the First Team manager. These are hardly unreasonable time-frames.

Probably more importantly than firing Hodgson is the fact that Henry/Werner/NESV proved to Comolli that they trust him and that they are going to work this new system. Anybody could have fired Hodgson. I could have. Konchesky's mom could have. But these guys worked within this new system (the same way they do in boston). Didn't listen to the clamoring fans, and simply did their own due diligence and assessment.

(3) The appointment of Kenny is much much more than simply appeasing the fans. I agree that it's a win/win, but for different reasons.

Bringing Dalglish back front and center settles everything @ the Club. EVERYTHING. Player Power finished. Local community @ ease. Hopefully we also see that on the pitch. It gives Academy targets and their families an immediate feeling of what this Club actually is and stands for. It starts to wipe away a lot of the damage and rot that has set in during the Moores & Hicks/GG 20 years.

I'll also be curious to see what it means in terms of the Stadium & January transfer targets.

Anyway....

RE: Hodgson : Not to concerned about him. He got his payday. He took a shot @ a big club and his methods didn't translate (regardless of the quality of players at his disposal).

For all intents-and-purposes Hodgson was hired as a safe choice and one that would steady the ship. I can't kill Purslow for hiring him. In the middle of a fierce financial storm brought on by Hicks/GG, Purslow likely went out to hire a safe choice and that's exactly what he did. Hodgson was brought on to steady the ship. Unfortunately that didn't happen for a whole host of reasons.

I don't blame Hodgson for taking the job, but quite frankly there was very little upside in him accepting it even if he was a success. He had SUCH a good thing going @ Fulham. We all know that his ideal job is as England manager and it seems that is where his sights are (and have been). IMO he didn't need to take the Liverpool job to be in strong contention for England. At 62 years old, he probably should have stayed where he was, but then again hindsight is 20/20.

I know a lot of people will say that Hodgson shouldn't have been hired in the first place based on past results, but in a weird way I am kind of glad that things work out as they have. Other than some obscene player contracts, the last visible personnel vestige of the Hicks/GG era is gone. Time to move forward anew.

Hodgson will land on his feet @ a bottom-half mid-table club and will do just fine. England WC2014 is likely out of the running for him, but once Harry gets fired after that WC debacle, he can step right in circa 2015.

this is like a whole book:)

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