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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Was able to watch Arda Turan firsthand for the 2nd time in two successive weekends.

Sounds like a useful scout. Accorduing to SM he's a Wing/AM Both feet - the tyype of player Rafa would usually go for in terms of being able to fill a couple of positions across the advanced three midfield positions. Being able to take a few knocks is a must for the EPL, but when you say lack of pace; what level are you talking?

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

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RE: Adra Turan

He's A LOT slower (looks like he's running in sand) and a lot smaller (he's lucky if he's 5'8") than I thought he was, but he plays bigger. Was fantastic with the ball at his feet. Was able to keep the ball very close to his feet even in traffic. Could take defenders 1X1 and could create space for himself. Crosses were good. Hell, even his tackling was good.
To look at him you think he's going to be a speed merchant, and he's anything but. Let's put it this way, I think he and Maxi would be neck and neck in a 40yd dash.

But as I said he still tries to always take defenders 1X1 on the wing by using his other skills.

Think of him as the EXACT OPPOSITE of Theo Walcott. From what I saw of Arda Turan, he lacks pace. But he's technically gifted. Seems fantastic with the ball @ his feet even in tight situations. Looks to shoot first. Very good balance. Can take a knock (or two or three). And has a nose for the goal.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

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RE: Adra Turan

To look at him you think he's going to be a speed merchant' date=' and he's anything but. Let's put it this way, I think he and Maxi would be neck and neck in a 40yd dash.

But as I said he still tries to always take defenders 1X1 on the wing by using his other skills.

[b']Think of him as the EXACT OPPOSITE of Theo Walcott. [/b]From what I saw of Arda Turan, he lacks pace. But he's technically gifted. Seems fantastic with the ball @ his feet even in tight situations. Looks to shoot first. Very good balance. Can take a knock (or two or three). And has a nose for the goal.

I was at the USA vs Turkey game and he was arguably the best player on the field on Saturday. He absolutely destroyed Spector every time he touched the ball. The guy is great with the ball at his feet and he is a great finisher.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

*Day Dreams* ........... Champions League Final 2015' date=' [b']Conor Wickham[/b] partnering Dani Pacheco upfront, 31 year old Torres on the bench providing the veterans touch.

we not save 6mill or so buying conor wickham and stick with Lauri Dalla Valle up front. hes going to be a amazing player imo.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

This better not be true!!!!!!

Liverpool offer Rafael Benítez £3m to quit with immediate effect• Club desperate to avoid paying £16m compensation

Liverpool have given the clearest indication yet that Rafael Benítez's six-year spell in charge is drawing to a close by offering their manager £3m to leave Anfield. It is believed the Spaniard, entitled to £16m if sacked this summer, has been offered the lesser sum to quit with immediate effect.

Benítez's position has been in serious doubt since January when Juventus targeted the 50-year-old to replace Ciro Ferrara. The Liverpool manager allowed that opportunity to pass in the hope of staying at Anfield, providing he obtained assurances over the club's transfer budget and search for new investment. However, with the club unable or unwilling to provide Benítez with those guarantees, the Liverpool board has presented Benítez with a shock exit route.

The former Valencia coach has held several rounds of talks with the Liverpool chairman, Martin Broughton, in recent weeks, where he outlined his strategy for restoring the club's fortunes following a dispiriting campaign involving an early exit from the Champions League and a seventh-place finish in the Premier League.

He is understood to have stressed that Liverpool cannot recover without an end to Tom Hicks's and George Gillett's calamitous ownership or without a commitment to reinvest in the squad should Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard decide to leave this summer. Liverpool's best two players have both said they will consider their futures after the World Cup and Marca, the Spanish sports paper with close ties to Real Madrid, yesterday announced that Gerrard is the principal target of Real Madrid's new manager, José Mourinho.

With no takeover imminent, and Hicks revealing last week that it could take until next year to find an investor willing to meet his £600m-£800m price for Liverpool, Anfield officials have reacted to Benítez's demands with a counter-offer that suggests they accept the impasse cannot continue and renders his position untenable. The Liverpool manager was unavailable for comment on the club's move last night.

Under the terms of the lucrative contract signed last year, Benítez is entitled to a full payout if the deal is terminated by the club. With four years remaining on the deal, Liverpool would have to find £16m to sack the man who has won a European Cup and FA Cup since his arrival in 2004. Their offer of less than a quarter of that sum is a further indication of the financial constraints at a club that, for the year to 30 July 2009, was £350m in debt and posted the biggest annual loss in its history, £55m.

Liverpool's compromise package could be a means to encourage a takeover by removing a manager that a potential new investor does not want for a reduced fee. However, with Hicks and Gillett holding out for a substantial profit on a club that has yet to begin work on a proposed stadium on Stanley Park, and no offer for a total sale on the table, it is more likely a sign that Benítez's conditions cannot be met. The manager has had to sell players before he could buy during recent transfer windows and, in the absence of a new investor or monies from the possible sales of Gerrard and Torres, will be in a similar position this summer.

Should Benítez accept the payoff, and there are no indications at present that he will do so, he is unlikely to struggle to find employment despite Juventus, having lost patience in their pursuit of the Liverpool manager, appointing Luigi Del Neri as coach and Real Madrid, another former suitor, replacing Manuel Pellegrini with Mourinho. The president of the reigning European champions Internazionale, Massimo Moratti, is a confirmed admirer of the Spaniard and has seen his hopes of enticing the England manager, Fabio Capello, back to Italy after the World Cup dashed.

Where Benítez's departure would leave Liverpool, meanwhile, is open to conjecture. Two potential candidates, Roy Hodgson and Martin O'Neill, have reiterated their commitment to Fulham and Aston Villa respectively since the end of last season and, as the circumstances behind Liverpool's offer to Benítez suggest, substantial funds are unlikely to be available at Anfield this summer.

The Liverpool careers of Gerrard and Torres are not intrinsically linked to the presence or departure of Benítez. Both players, along with their manager, have been awaiting evidence from the Anfield hierarchy that the club can strengthen the squad and compete for honours next season before making a decision on their futures.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

found this as well

Rafa Benitez’s Anfield reign is over.

The Liverpool manager was sacked last night, after the club board came to the decision he had lost the dressing room.

Player power proved his downfall after several of the Reds’ biggest stars, including Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher, made clear their loss of faith in the manager.

Some had even stated privately that they would leave if Benitez stayed.

Benitez, who is on holiday in Sardinia, was hanging on only to negotiate his payoff. He has a £16million clause in his contract that must be paid in full if he is dismissed, and the only detail left to be finalised late last night was just how much of that money he would receive.

The Spanish coach could walk straight into another job after his dismissal at Anfield, with Inter Milan keen to make him the replacement for treble-winning manager Jose Mourinho.

And Liverpool have already drawn up a short-list of possible replacements for Benitez, with the highly respected Roy Hodgson and Louis Van Gaal topping the candidates, along with Benfica manager Jorge Jesus, and - before he accepted the Italy job - Cesare Prandelli of Fiorentina.

Sammy Lee, the current assistant manager of the Reds, will step in as a caretaker in the short-term, until a replacement is announced, with the club hoping to find a successor in the next few weeks.

Benitez has presided over a disastrous season, losing 19 matches and seeing his side slip to seventh place in the table, which has caused major damage to the club’s precarious finances.

More seriously though, he lost the support of senior players at the club, with top stars like Torres, Gerrard, Carragher, Javier Mascherano and Yossi Benayoun offering public displays of their lack of belief in the manager.

The board were left with the painful decision of choosing between Benitez and their world class players, and in the end they decided they simply couldn’t trust the manager to spend the money that would be raised by the sale of so many big names.

The five-man Liverpool board made the unanimous decision over the weekend, and they also have the backing of chairman Martin Broughton, who is thought to believe that the club can only move forward by bringing stability to the football side of the club.

Benitez has always been a highly skilled political operator, and his tenure in the final two years was punctuated by an increasingly fraught situation at Anfield, where he was fighting against his own board and his own team.

The directors have decided that situation can’t be allowed to go on any longer, and they will now move quickly to appoint a more statesmanlike manager who can work with colleagues.

The new boss WILL be given money to spend, with around £20million set aside for new players, with a guarantee, too, that any money from sales will be used solely for recruitment.

The likes of Albert Riera, Ryan Babel, Alberto Aquilani and Benayoun could all be sold to raise another £25m or so, and several fringe players will also be sacrificed, to generate a kitty that could be as much as £50m.

Talks will proceed swiftly over a replacement, with Hodgson’s calm approach sure to make him among the favourites, given the turmoil that has engulfed Liverpool in recent seasons.

Benitez has been exploring possible escape routes over the past six months, and he came close to joining Juventus at the end of the season, until the Italians got a new president who favoured a home-grown boss.

But Inter remains a strong possibility, especially given the news in the past two days that their first choice - Fabio Capello - looks likely to remain with England.

This week, the Milan club’s president Massimo Moratti confirmed he is an admirer of the Spaniard, when he said:

“Benitez is a man I’ve always considered very good, but for the moment he is engaged.”

The Reds boss still wants a pay off, and he was juggling those balls last night, as he prepared to accept a lower compensation figure to ensure he remains in the running for the Inter job.

Benitez though, has certain reservations about following Mourinho - one of his biggest enemies in football - but now that he can no longer remain with Liverpool he may feel he has no other choice but to take the poisoned chalice of following the special one.

Late last night, terms were still being discussed over the pay off, with Liverpool’s opening offer well short of the £16million figure the Spaniard wants, and until that money could be agreed, no announcement would be made

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Tony Barratt who is normally a reliable source at the times is reporting this.

Sad times, likely to be true.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article7142868.ece

Anyone that thinks any manager will come in and do a better job than Benitez has over the past few seasons is dilluded beyond belief and has no idea about what is going on at Liverpool.

If Rafa goes, imo it's almost certain Torres and possibly Gerrard will also go.

It's going to take us years, if not decades to recover from what Hicks & Gillett have done to us if this is what happens, and any Liverpool fan that thinks this is a good move to allow Benitez to leave, is so wrong it's untrue.

Mirror are reporting he has been sacked. (red top, bound to glamorise it) whilst Independent also now following the Times report.

If you really, really, care about Liverpool, then join SOS, and do it today:

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/join.html

This video hits so many notes right now. Too close to home! :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWbW4xNkBUY

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Tony Barratt who is normally a reliable source at the times is reporting this.

Sad times' date=' likely to be true.

[url']http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article7142868.ece[/url]

Anyone that thinks any manager will come in and do a better job than Benitez has over the past few seasons is dilluded beyond belief and has no idea about what is going on at Liverpool.

If Rafa goes, imo it's almost certain Torres and possibly Gerrard will also go.

It's going to take us years, if not decades to recover from what Hicks & Gillett have done to us if this is what happens, and any Liverpool fan that thinks this is a good move to allow Benitez to leave, is so wrong it's untrue.

Mirror are reporting he has been sacked. (red top, bound to glamorise it) whilst Independent also now following the Times report.

If you really, really, care about Liverpool, then join SOS, and do it today:

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/join.html

This video hits so many notes right now. Too close to home! :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWbW4xNkBUY

BBC website just put a bit up in there rumour bit as well

This could be as bad as the Souness years that took a good 12 years to recover from

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

BBC website just put a bit up in there rumour bit as well

This could be as bad as the Souness years that took a good 12 years to recover from

True, but

What we need, finally the clubs up for sale theres a start, ive been hearing rumours about a Chinese man sizing up either to buy Liverpool or another unamed EPL club. I have no idea where I heard I just hope I wasnt dreaming it.

It was a must to get rid of Benitez, hes barely done anything for the club, over 200 Million spent and only 2 decent signings. His tactics have been beyond me this season. We needed him gone.

Getting in a legend wouldnt be a bad start at least he'd have full support. I think like Ian Rush and Dalglish or even Keegan. Theres a fair few who would relish Liverpool even Roy Hodgson.

But I think this will be the best for Liverpool

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

its a crazy decission from the liverpool board.

all liverpool fans want is the league more than anything and rafa was the closet that any liverpool manager got to it in a long time

all he needed was a bit more backing.

we can change manger as many times as we went but if the yanks are still in charge we will just keep on going downhill

every manager linked with us so far is a massif step down from rafa.

why would rafa accept £3MILLION we hes entiled to get 16mill.

who would want to take us over when we some much uncertiny.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

2 :D ' date=' I think I will save myself some time and stay outa this one again :P[/quote']

bitter sweet news... on one hand we can rebuild and have a manager who's decisions we can understand, but on the other we might have mash, torres an gerrard and reina leaving. he has done a lot for the club, and im sure if the americans(who should never have got the club) had taken over not for business reasons, then benitez would have still been at the club.

conclusion: After a dominoes affect, first the americans falls, leading to the players, leading to the fans and finally leading benitez through the anfield gates. the person most affected by his departure will be us the fans as i dont know were this club will go:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

bitter sweet news... on one hand we can rebuild and have a manager who's decisions we can understand' date=' but on the other we might have mash, torres an gerrard and reina leaving. he has done a lot for the club, and im sure if the americans(who should never have got the club) had taken over not for business reasons, then benitez would have still been at the club.

conclusion: After a dominoes affect, first the americans falls, leading to the players, leading to the fans and finally leading benitez through the anfield gates. the person most affected by his departure will be us the fans as i dont know were this club will go:(:(:(:(:(:(:([/quote']

Its gonna be a wait and see thing for Liverpool, ive heard we are only getting 15 Million for transfer, so if we are getting rid of Rafa, is that money gone?

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Doesn't look good for Benitez' date='if he stays I don't really see where he will go from here tbh when the Chairman has no confidence in him,wonder who they will bring him into to replace Benitez though.[/quote']

The inevitable looks like it may be becoming a reality....

In the power struggle and with no real hope of new owners anytime soon I think this was inevitable, it could only be resolved by either the owners or rafa going and believe me the owners arent going anywhere for a long long time unfortunatley :(

Many times I have discussed why i think Benitez has to go I firmly believe he has lost the support of the dressing room including many of the "senior players" and just appears to have run his course so to speak....his tactical decisions, transfer purchases of late have been below the standard quired and has lost his ability to motivate the players, once the players start to lose faith the writing is on the wall fo any manager.

I like Benitez always have, always will and will be grateful for all time for the many great moments we have had under his tenure Istanbul obviously being the overwhelming memory. I believe he loves Liverpool, I believe he has the best interests of the club at heart but he has simply run his course and as stated previously this is the first change in what needs to be a complete upheaval at the club.

I think it could actually benefit us as perhaps with a new manger whoever that may be may be able to inject fresh ideas a fresh focus and really entice the likes of Torres, gerrard etc to stay give them some fresh hope, something new. Whoever the new manager is we know they will have next t nothing to spend and will need to be somebody who can lift the dressing room.

What i cant actually work out is who will make the decision on who a perspective new manager might be?? Purslow, Hicks, Gillette, Ayre nobody really knows who is making the decisions at the club nowdays, it is a sad sad situation for a club who (obviously im biased) are the biggest football club in Britain and oneof the 5 biggest in the world to be in such a sorry stte of affairs, i would like to be positive but I think the honest truth is we are in a rut a rapid decline and i see no way of arresting this decline wthout new ownership but believe me you look at Hick's history he wont be going anywhere soon he does not give a hoot about this club and will just squeeze the life out of us till we are bled dry. :(

Mid Table mediocrity is a very real possibility if we lose our top players and with the way modern football is today it would be extremely extremely hard to force ourselves bak into the mix again for a very long time :(

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I think i didn't expect this because i didn't want it. I've always been a massive fan of Rafa. Like this guy said on 606:

"I know I'll miss Rafa - Finals, Spanish players, second place, facts, defensive midfielders, Torres, Gerrard being a legend, Reina"

Rafa's tactics we're mad at times, and maybe the champions league trophy back in 05 was what saw him in the job until now, but the club is in a mess and i really don't think it should be the manager going, it should be the owners.

People throw around the number 200M, but he wouldn't of done much more had it not been given to him in small amounts, maybe he could of spend it sometimes more wiser, and didn't buy players and sell them on a couple of seasons later, but with that 200M we wouldn't of really been able to build a 'Prem winning side' look at all the money the likes of Chelsea have spent over the last couple of years, Liverpool are in a mess and we all know that, but ask yourself this, do we need a new manager, new squad, or new owners?

I think i'd put it in this order of preference - new owners (more money), new players (preferably 5 keeping our current main players ofcorse), then give Rafa a year with new players and see what he could of done, obviously if he failed i'd show him the door, if that 200M had been given all at one time we'd be in a better position now, but hey you don't see owners throwing 200M around do you.

If Rafa does go, who replaces him? the name Guus Hiddink is flying around, but i don't see how that will work, he's taken over Turkey, who are preparing for the 2012 euro's, not the world cup. Is he really going to take over a national side to play a couple of friendly's and then leave? I don't think so, he's there for the long shot in my humble opinion.

I don't know what else to say on the matter, if Rafa does go, will all our main and better players go? with Mourinho snooping around at Gerrard, and Torres and Gerrard being close pals, would Torres want to go if Gerrard went? and you have to remember Gerrard hasn't ruled out a move yet, he's said "ill think about my future after the world cup"

I just hope this doesn't make matters worst, and if Rafa does go i thank him for his work at Liverpool, his pathetic if at times wonderful tactics, his services to the club so, Istabul, and whatever else i should thank him for.

Maybe if Rafa did go, a new style of play would come in? no more zonal marking, maybe the sale of a couple of players might be the better, but what do you lads think?

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

A lot of mixed feelings. The one report said that Gerrard, Torres Masch etc. weren't happy with Rafa and hadn't commited their future to the club while he's at the club.

But Torres has previously stated that if Rafa goes, he could go...

So are the stars now going or staying:confused::confused::confused:

Edit: Bring in Hiddink or O'neill... I would say Prandelli but he's already going to be Italy's manager

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

A lot of mixed feelings. The one report said that Gerrard' date=' Torres Masch etc. weren't happy with Rafa and hadn't commited their future to the club while he's at the club.

But Torres has previously stated that if Rafa goes, he could go...

So are the stars now going or staying:confused::confused::confused:

Edit: Bring in Hiddink or O'neill... I would say Prandelli but he's already going to be Italy's manager[/quote']

Nobody really knows pal.

A number of players have said they'll think about there future after the world cup, and some have said they're happy were they are, but the press always enjoy to twist words or sometimes whole conversations to they can get more readers. Just ignore it all, i know its hard as you see it alot, but if we just await for new to be confirmed then we won't have to worry about tabloids rumors i guess.

I don't think Hiddink would leave the Turkey job, so he'd have to juggle both jobs if he did take over at Liverpool. So he'd do the same thing he did at Chelsea. But would you guys want someone to do that? It's like a bloke switching to one woman from August to May and then from June till July having an affair with another woman (OK, it's not like that, but you get the picture?) :o

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Bad times ahead I'm afraid and I'm trying to look at this from a balanced perspective which I think is sometimes lacking when it comes to football because we're all so emotionally invested in it.

Gillette and Hicks have lied about their intentions regarding a leveraged buy out.

The club is in massive debt which is costing over $100(pounds sterling) per minute. This clearly is the major problem. Go to the Spirit of Shankly website for more information.

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/

Investment in the playing squad has been limited - in comparison to the top sides. We can go on about net spend and Xmillions here and there, but we've not had the sorts of figures ManU, Chelsea, Madrid, Barcelona, Milan etc (even Man City and Spurs now can be added to the list) have had. Let's not get into pounds and pence over it, but we've just not been able to afford $30m on a defender like ferdinand for example, or $30m for a striker to sit on the bench like Berbatov. (not singling out Man u, just examples of big oney signings)

Rafa's signings.

I really do take issue with the whole media and forum bandwagon that suggests he has been poor in this area. He's had good and bad. He has traded up some players, taken some punts on some youngsters which haven't worked out and as well as on some experienced players that were inexplicably bad (Morientes).

But, Reina, Agger, Johnson, Benayoun, Masch, Garcia, Alonso, Kuyt, Torres far outweigh Keane, Morientes, Bellamy & Pennant.

With the youngsters, Ngog, Insua & Lucas, outweigh Paletta & Gonzalez and some of the other youth "punts"

Even the free signings of Maxi & Aurelio stack up against Degen (more of an injury issue than ability necessarily) and Voronin.

Throw in Aquilani, Babel and Skrtel and theres still another 3 players with something to prove.

Crouch, Sissoko and Carson were all sold for a profit too.

Considering the cost of these players (and even our big signings are staged payments) I don't think the record is as bad as is portrayed.

Rafas tactics.

This is where my support for the manager takes a hit. He obviously knows what he likes - the 4-5-1/4-2-3-1 with the double pivot of a defensive midfielder and playmaker. When Alonso left; and without a like for like replacement, the formation or at least the tactics accompanying the formation should have been changed to accomodate the personnel. After a handful of losses, the season was all but gone and confidence drained. There were only a handful of dominant performances displaying the type of posession and creative threat that I wanted to see. There were to many nervous, technically devoid performances that left me wondering. This is where Rafa deserves criticism.

But, do I want him to go?

I don't know.

Please do not rip me for the follwing comprisons, I'm no saying Rafa deserves to be compared to Shankly by ay stretch, but part of me tells me that like Shankly, he is bloody minded and has the future good of the club at heart. I can see Shankly loving someone like Dirk Kuyt, and not touching El Hadji Diouf with a barge-pole. Shankly said he let talented trainees go if they didn’t sweep the floor properly, but those kids who put their all into it got contracts. I think Benitez has put a lot of that work ethic and pride back into the club and I think he gets criticised for that in the media for being a cold personality.

Liverpool tried to sign up Shanks as manager before 1959, but he refused to take on the job. His reason? The manager didn't pick the team. The board finally saw sense and ceded this role in order to get their man.

Rafa openly criticized his board when player dealings were taken out of his hands. The board mdete changes, and Rick Parry left, clearing the way for Rafa to take full control, but that is seen as political his political manoeverings. I could go on.

It's obvious that both men shared a distinct distrust of the money men at the club. They both wanted complete control of team affairs and were not afraid to stand their ground in order to get their way.

If Rafa does go as is being suggested, I just feel its too early.

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