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Official Liverpool Thread


ian neller
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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I would argue everyone stats from last year will not show there actual ablilty or at least potential ability. Suarez was very unlucky in alot of games last season' date=' with him and Liverpool hitting the post the most times out of any team in the league. Watch him you can see he is a top class finisher. And inside the box he can trouble any defenders. If you did watch him last year i can't see how you can argue against that.[/quote']

Easily Suarez has never been a clinical finisher, he misses a lot of chances every season, even when he played for Ajax he still missed massive amounts of chances. For Suarez it was always more a matter of luck that he scored, when you fire in 275 shots in a single season your bound too get lucky and score a few

07/08 - Ajax - 17 Goals - 108 Shots - 15.7% Efficiency - 6.4 shots/goal

08/09 - Ajax - 22 Goals - 197 Shots - 11.2% Efficiency - 9 shots/goal

09/10 - Ajax - 35 Goals - 275 Shots - 12.7% Efficiency - 7.9 shots/goal

10/11 - Ajax - 7 Goals - 101 Shots - 6.9% Efficiency - 14.4 shots/goal

10/11 - Liverpool - 4 Goals - 55 Shots - 6.3% Efficiency - 13.8 shots/goal

As you can see from those stats he clearly isn't a 'World Class' or 'Clinical' striker, I mean the guy has missed 2/2 penalties this season, right in front of goal.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

There is a rather big difference between a shot and a chance' date=' you know...[/quote']

It being a very silly idea to take the shot if there isn't the chance? ;)

Suarez hasn't shown he's a clinical finisher at all however with a more creative player behind him (Gylfi?) he'll get better chances and with him behind a main striker he could create mainly and shoot when he had a good chance.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Easily Suarez has never been a clinical finisher' date=' he misses a lot of chances every season, even when he played for Ajax he still missed massive amounts of chances. For Suarez it was always more a matter of luck that he scored, when you fire in 275 shots in a single season your bound too get lucky and score a few

07/08 - Ajax - 17 Goals - 108 Shots - 15.7% Efficiency - 6.4 shots/goal

08/09 - Ajax - 22 Goals - 197 Shots - 11.2% Efficiency - 9 shots/goal

09/10 - Ajax - 35 Goals - 275 Shots - 12.7% Efficiency - 7.9 shots/goal

10/11 - Ajax - 7 Goals - 101 Shots - 6.9% Efficiency - 14.4 shots/goal

10/11 - Liverpool - 4 Goals - 55 Shots - 6.3% Efficiency - 13.8 shots/goal

As you can see from those stats he clearly isn't a 'World Class' or 'Clinical' striker, I mean the guy has missed 2/2 penalties this season, right in front of goal.[/quote']

Suarez isn't a world class finisher but he is a world class forward imo. His goal-scoring stats don't tell you how good the guy really is. He creates a lot of chances, too, the most from all Liverpool players last season and there's no player in the world with his ability to nutmeg a player as easily as he does.

Looking forward to seeing him play under Rodgers and with (hopefully) better wingers.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I'd take him' date=' it's an upgrade on Spearing a decent back up for Lucas.[/quote']
Diame is no DM' date=' so if you're looking at him as a back up for Lucas then you're looking at the wrong guy. He is more of a attack minded CM. Loves to get forward, technically very good and is a decent passer.[/quote']

............

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Suarez isn't a world class finisher but he is a world class forward imo. His goal-scoring stats don't tell you how good the guy really is. He creates a lot of chances' date=' too, the most from all Liverpool players last season and there's no player in the world with his ability to nutmeg a player as easily as he does.

Looking forward to seeing him play under Rodgers and with (hopefully) better wingers.[/quote']

Thats very true. He created the most chances out of all the Liverpool players last year, guess Aitken123 missed that stat :D

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Suarez isn't a world class finisher but he is a world class forward imo. His goal-scoring stats don't tell you how good the guy really is. He creates a lot of chances' date=' too, the most from all Liverpool players last season and [b']there's no player in the world with his ability to nutmeg a player as easily as he does.[/b]

Looking forward to seeing him play under Rodgers and with (hopefully) better wingers.

It is one of his signature move and I guess it become more predictable now, every defense aware of that trick except for John Terry..

And yes,he is not a class finisher, more like creating a chances and running at defense kind of player (make other team mate available for the finishing touch).

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Suarez isn't a world class finisher but he is a world class forward imo. His goal-scoring stats don't tell you how good the guy really is. He creates a lot of chances' date=' too, the most from all Liverpool players last season and there's no player in the world with his ability to nutmeg a player as easily as he does.

Looking forward to seeing him play under Rodgers and with (hopefully) better wingers.[/quote']

That ability to nutmeg players doesn't make a player world class, the majority of his work during the game comes to nothing, which doesn't make him a bad player but he's not a world class player because he doesn't score enough goals to win enough games for Liverpool.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

That ability to nutmeg players doesn't make a player world class' date=' the majority of his work during the game comes to nothing, which doesn't make him a bad player but he's not a world class player because he doesn't score enough goals to win enough games for Liverpool.[/quote']

Problem is no one scored enough goals last season. maybe we will see a difference with Rodgers style of play this season.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Problem is no one scored enough goals last season. maybe we will see a difference with Rodgers style of play this season.

The main problem is we are out of luck last season. That is what killing us.

Wow. 1000 post already. :D

Btw, Steve Clarke joins WBA today.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Problem is no one scored enough goals last season. maybe we will see a difference with Rodgers style of play this season.

But you didn't have a problem 'creating' chances last season.

Rodgers Swansea also created a lot of chances.

Unless he has a magic wand that can suddenly turn Suarez and Carroll into half decent finishers then not much will change unless competent strikers are bought in.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

That ability to nutmeg players doesn't make a player world class' date='[/quote']

It's not the ability to nutmeg players that makes Suarez a world class player but in general the ability to get past his man is a part of it. His successful dribbles to minutes ratio is one of the best in Europe.

the majority of his work during the game comes to nothing' date=' which doesn't make him a bad player[/quote']

That's a fair point because you can look very flashy but at the same time be very ineffective. However the players at the receiving end have to take a lot of responsibility because Suarez created a lot of good chances for them. And saying that the majority of his work comes to nothing is quite harsh because he gets a lot of free-kicks, penalties & corners. As long as our attacking players aren't better than they are now, I won't blame Suarez for being a bit selfish because at times he can produce something magical more often than Carroll & Downing can do something ordinary.

The goal he scored in our 4-1 win over Chelsea was something I don't think anyone else in the premier league could do. Maybe Aguero.

but he's not a world class player because he doesn't score enough goals to win enough games for Liverpool.

He shouldn't be judged on goals alone. There was no player in our team last season who could've been trusted upon to score consistently, so Suarez had to take a lot of responsibility in both creating & scoring. It was too much for him, and that's why his shots to goals ratio is appalling. He was forced to go on his own (and at times he was just selfish) and try from silly angles.

This debate is rather pointless, though, because we almost certainly have differing views on what can be counted as world-class.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

But you didn't have a problem 'creating' chances last season.

Rodgers Swansea also created a lot of chances.

Unless he has a magic wand that can suddenly turn Suarez and Carroll into half decent finishers then not much will change unless competent strikers are bought in.

He doesn't need a magic wand. Both players have shown in the past that they can score goals and were obviously good enough to be top players, that's why the cost so much. he has just got to help them reach that potential.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

He doesn't need a magic wand. Both players have shown in the past that they can score goals and were obviously good enough to be top players' date=' [b']that's why the cost so much[/b]. he has just got to help them reach that potential.

Thats rubbish. Carroll cost £20m more than he was worth due to the money you received from Chelsea from Torres.

Suarez was a 'decent' fee if a little over the top.

As for scoring goals:

Carroll had a purple patch for 5 months of ONE PL season. The amount of players who have good ENTIRE seasons and then have gone 'dry' is an endless list (Ricketts, Stewart etc etc etc) - Carroll has not yet managed a consistent goalscoring record over one season so far.

Suarez is a tricky player but his goalscoring exploits have a lot to be desired. Scoring a load of goals in a league where Kezman, Alves, Samaras did is not that impressive if you are a bit out of your depth when you play in a top league (in terms of goalscoring).

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Thats rubbish. Carroll cost £20m more than he was worth due to the money you received from Chelsea from Torres.

Suarez was a 'decent' fee if a little over the top.

As for scoring goals:

Carroll had a purple patch for 5 months of ONE PL season. The amount of players who have good ENTIRE seasons and then have gone 'dry' is an endless list (Ricketts' date=' Stewart etc etc etc) - Carroll has not yet managed a consistent goalscoring record over one season so far.

Suarez is a tricky player but his goalscoring exploits have a lot to be desired. Scoring a load of goals in a league where Kezman, Alves, Samaras did is not that impressive if you are a bit out of your depth when you play in a top league (in terms of goalscoring).[/quote']

How much do you believe Liverpool would be able to get for Suarez now? Because if we'd be able to get a profit, I don't know how the fee can be over the top. And I personally think there's no club who would imagine getting him for the same amount (or less) we paid for him.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

How much do you believe Liverpool would be able to get for Suarez now? Because if we'd be able to get a profit' date=' I don't know how the fee can be over the top. And I personally think there's no club who would imagine getting him for the same amount (or less) we paid for him.[/quote']

I dont know why you bother mate.....

Let the Haters hate.....

Suarez is a world-class player without a doubt if others cannot see it then that is there problem.

Like you say if we were to sell him now it would be at a very decent profit and if he came on the market most of the top clubs in continental Europe would be looking with great interest and I include Barcelona in that..

The guy is class, he is not the problem the supporting cast around him is the problem at Liverpool.

Anyway this debate has been had 4million times......time to move on perhaps :)

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I dont know why you bother mate.....

Let the Haters hate.....

Suarez is a world-class player without a doubt if others cannot see it then that is there problem.

Like you say if we were to sell him now it would be at a very decent profit and if he came on the market most of the top clubs in continental Europe would be looking with great interest and I include Barcelona in that..

The guy is class' date=' he is not the problem the supporting cast around him is the problem at Liverpool.

Anyway this debate has been had 4million times......[b']time to move on perhaps[/b] :)

I suppose you're right.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Thats rubbish. Carroll cost £20m more than he was worth due to the money you received from Chelsea from Torres.

Suarez was a 'decent' fee if a little over the top.

As for scoring goals:

Carroll had a purple patch for 5 months of ONE PL season. The amount of players who have good ENTIRE seasons and then have gone 'dry' is an endless list (Ricketts' date=' Stewart etc etc etc) - Carroll has not yet managed a consistent goalscoring record over one season so far.

Suarez is a tricky player but his goalscoring exploits have a lot to be desired. Scoring a load of goals in a league where Kezman, Alves, Samaras did is not that impressive if you are a bit out of your depth when you play in a top league (in terms of goalscoring).[/quote']

Your saying saying you can't base carrols good performance on ONE season, yet you still base your evaluations on them after ONE bad season, not really making a reliable argument.

Carrols price was obviously over priced, alot do do with him being English. My point about the high prices is that Liverpool would not have paid that much if they didn't think they were good enough, im not suggesting that the players are worth their price, that is a totally different argument that i am not even going to try and get into.

You can bend the stats however you like to back up what you are going to say, at the end of the day people are always going to under or over evaluate a player, depending on what they have seen of the player, what they haven't seen, or personal opinion on the player. However, i would bet there are alot more people that agree Suarez is one of the best forwards in the league.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

How much do you believe Liverpool would be able to get for Suarez now? Because if we'd be able to get a profit' date=' I don't know how the fee can be over the top. And I personally think there's no club who would imagine getting him for the same amount (or less) we paid for him.[/quote']

I would envisage a fee of around £25m tbh. Better players like Cavani, Falcao etc etc would be much higher as they have a much better strike rate.

I dont know why you bother mate.....

Let the Haters hate.....

Suarez is a world-class player without a doubt if others cannot see it then that is there problem.

Like you say if we were to sell him now it would be at a very decent profit and if he came on the market most of the top clubs in continental Europe would be looking with great interest and I include Barcelona in that..

The guy is class' date=' he is not the problem the supporting cast around him is the problem at Liverpool.

Anyway this debate has been had 4million times......time to move on perhaps :)[/quote']

Yes World Class:rolleyes: Never mind the fact that he has yet to show he can perform to an adequate standard in the CL, he has merely done 'reasonably' in the PL with an atrocious goal record for a striker at a supposed 'top' club.

He is a good player but you lot have to establish what constitutes 'world class' and 'good'.

Your saying saying you can't base carrols good performance on ONE season' date=' yet you still base your evaluations on them after ONE bad season, not really making a reliable argument.

[/quote']

You are saying Suarez is 'world class' and that Carroll is a good enough striker for LFC.

I am saying that Suarez is good and not 'world class' whilst also saying Carroll is merely a one season wonder (well 5 month wonder tbh).

It is up to them to raise and solidify their status - it is not up to others to lower them;)

Carroll was still a better purchase than Downing :D.

I can see him doing fairly well' date=' to the point where his 35m price tag won't be too bad anymore. Barring injuries that is.[/quote']

What is 'not too bad' for a £35m pound striker?

Imo anything less than 20 goals per season for at least 5/6 years is a drastic overspend.

Oh look' date=' we are discussing Suarez's finishing, that makes a change.

Suarez is a fantastic player who would get in every side in the premier league.[/quote']

This made me laugh :rolleyes:

Yes he would get in City and Utd's line-ups:rolleyes:

Behave.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Actually I'm pretty sure Suarez would get into man U's team. Who else is there, Rooney... and that's it. And they are totally different players. You need to learn what potential is. Both Suarez and Carrol were brought in not to make an incredible impact stright away, although it was hoped for, but more importantly to develop and 'become' world class players, that what i'm saying. I don't know if Carrol will become world class, but i believe he can be, if he is played and put to good use.

As for Suarez, i am in no way going to try and convince a Man U fan of his ability, I am not a GOD :)

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I wonder what constitutes a world class player. I feel that there can be no more than about 20 or 25 players that can be called truly world class. There may be 100 to 200 international class players about. If the Earth had to send a squad to a Milky Way cup then there would only be so many world class players who could go. :D There are not tonnes of world class players about at one time.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I wonder what constitutes a world class player. I feel that there can be no more than about 20 or 25 players that can be called truly world class. There may be 100 to 200 international class players about. If the Earth had to send a squad to a Milky Way cup then there would only be so many world class players who could go. :D There are not tonnes of world class players about at one time.

That's a good way to look at it. Saying that makes me wonder how many 'world class' players are actually in the prem!

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