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Official Liverpool Thread


ian neller
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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

If I can just tip in with my two cents before being eaten alive ...

:P

I'd say that the biggest issue for Suarez is that he has no real "partner" no one that he can "play" with out there ... you should get someone that can link up with him ... Suarez together with another striker of his calibre would be mental at you guys.

Now' date=' I'm probably 100% wrong here so feel free to burn and eat me alive :D[/color']

No, you're right. I've said more or less the same thing in my posts in this last page or two.
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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Suarez has a better international goalscoring record than Rooney and Van Persie.

Intl football is not a great comparison tbh - look at the goalscoring exploits of Healy' date=' Miller, Delgado etc.[/b']

Eto'o went to Russia because he's on a million pounds per month. We can't pay those wages because we're not in the Champions League, and probably couldn't even if we were. It's not just about transfer fee.

I wasn't using that as a direct example. I was merely using the example of certain players being able to be attempted away from the highest level for cash.

Seeing as Cav and Llorente are not currently at a 'top' club regularly in the CL, the history of LFC carries a lot of weight and offering them more than they are on at their respective clubs 'may' have seen a deal possible.

Granted' date=' he can't finish his dinner at times for us, but i think that's because he tries to hard as he doesn't trust the quality of certain team mates.

Either that or it's just the weight of the shirt as we're obviously still a massive club if Llorente and Cavani would join us.

[b']Have never denied that LFC's history still carries a lot of weight through the football world. Still believe LFC could tempt a player with their status as much as other 'new CL' clubs could tempt them with high wages.

Sometimes players just need more time' date=' you remember the shocking chances Forlan missed for Utd? he looked a joke of a player at times but I would not say hes a bad player or even finisher.

[b']Agreed. However we had one of the best finishers in world football in front of him at the time in RVN so we didn't need to rely on him anywhere near as much as you do/did with Suarez. Had Forlan been our only attacking threat there would have been many cries to flog him and purchase a proven 'predator'[/b]

Once Suarez has better quality players around him so the team isnt relying on him all the time things will improve.

Agree this is possible. However at the time with the money wasted by KD it didn't seem likely that you would have had many transfer funds without selling Suarez first.

Also... the Eredivisie league thing doesnt really apply to Suarez as hes not struggling with the EPL like those players did, he is tearing most defenses apart hes just losing his composure in front of goal and that has nothing to do with playing in the EPL or the Eredivisie league.

At present it does. Although he is clearly a much better player than Kezman or Alves it may be that he is not composed enough in the PL. Maybe if he were to play in Spain he could be a Forlan mk 2.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

At present it does. Although he is clearly a much better player than Kezman or Alves it may be that he is not composed enough in the PL. Maybe if he were to play in Spain he could be a Forlan mk 2..

Nah, things like being more composed is just a mental thing, he can come at anytime be it from a run of games, a better partner or just more confidence.

Look at Andy Murray lately, wasnt too long ago people were saying hes a bottler and couldnt handle the pressure and would never win a slam etc etc, he had the tallent but lacked the composure on the biggest games.

Suarez clearly has all the qualities, he just needs to be more calm in front of goal, which again can easily be worked on as the lad can clearly finish it just hasnt worked out for him yet here.

Weather that means getting somebody to partner him or even somebody to train him better.

If it was me personally I would hire Robbie Fowler as a forwards coach as he loves LFC and always has, hes one of the best finishers the EPL has seen, he (like Murrays new coach) I'm sure could have a great influence on our strikers.

We need to build around Suarez, hes by far our best player regardless of missing chances.

I think the 1 key thing you are missing is that without Suarez we would barely creating anything currently, so having a poacher wouldnt help us at all because the chances Suarez gets (or most our players) - Suarez has created himself anyway.... if you watch our games u will see what I mean.

to replace the guy we would need someone who can do what he does and also finish, Llorente would not be that guy, he would need to be with Suarez imo

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Nah' date=' things like being more composed is just a mental thing, he can come at anytime be it from a run of games, a better partner or just more confidence.

[b']Whilst I can agree with your summary to an extent, untiul he regularly starts to hit the net it will always be hanging over him and may prove to be a burden too much to bear.[/b]

Look at Andy Murray lately, wasnt too long ago people were saying hes a bottler and couldnt handle the pressure and would never win a slam etc etc, he had the tallent but lacked the composure on the biggest games.

Again see above. Murray was able to finally remove his 'burden' (question marks weighing him down etc) - however many sportsmen have not been able to get the weight off their shoulders.

Suarez clearly has all the qualities, he just needs to be more calm in front of goal, which again can easily be worked on as the lad can clearly finish it just hasnt worked out for him yet here.

Agree he has the qualities and if he was playing 'now' with a Cavani or Llorente the partnership could be devastating. However given the time of my initial 'comment' regarding selling him to replace him with one of Llorente or Cavani, it seemed as if Suarez was your only saleable asset who would command a transfer fee big enough to purchase one of the said goal predators.

Weather that means getting somebody to partner him or even somebody to train him better.

I personally am extremely sceptical if Suarez will ever be a 15+ goal a season man in the PL. However as you say if he was able to partner a more natural finisher then it 'could' prove better for LFC as a whole.

If it was me personally I would hire Robbie Fowler as a forwards coach as he loves LFC and always has, hes one of the best finishers the EPL has seen, he (like Murrays new coach) I'm sure could have a great influence on our strikers.

Well seeing how Bould has done training Arsenals defenders, the situation of a legend coming back in that capacity could be beneficial for the strikers. May well take someone like that to try and help Suarez etc regain/attain their composure

We need to build around Suarez, hes by far our best player regardless of missing chances.

He is your biggest attacking threat and if he could score regularly then he would be an immense player. However if you were able to partner him with a top level goal predator then he may not need to bang in 15+ goals a season.

I think the 1 key thing you are missing is that without Suarez we would barely creating anything currently, so having a poacher wouldnt help us at all because the chances Suarez gets (or most our players) - Suarez has created himself anyway.... if you watch our games u will see what I mean.

Still feel that you would be able to adapt and knock balls into the 6 yard box for a poacher/predator to get a fair share of goals. If Suarez was not there then the team would adjust to play to the strengths of the 'predator'. I agree Suarez does create a lot of his own chances but if he was not there the team would be able to adapt to a degree to try and play to the strengths of a more natural finisher.

to replace the guy we would need someone who can do what he does and also finish, Llorente would not be that guy, he would need to be with Suarez imo

Llorente with Surez would/could be a very good combo. However as pointed out above I feel that had Llorente come in for Suarez during the winter that LFC would have been able to play toward Llorente's strengths to some profit.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

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Ok, with all the If's and but's we are using :P , I know were you are coming from but lets say last season we gave up on Suarez in his first full season and sold him and signed Cavani.

Lets say like Suarez for whatever reason IF Cavani did not adjust to the EPL right away and in his 1st season BUT played amazing, created tons of chances, scored a few goals BUT missed loads of chances due to the move and metality (as has happened with many, many top players)

Would you then give up on him, sell him and go through the whole process again? I personally prefer to give players (and managers) time to adjust and believe any person given the correct help (if you have the tallent and more 'desire' - which Suarez has bundles of both) then they will always come through.

I bet people can find a million Forlans / Pique's (2 from the top of my head) who have been sold to early or given up on thinking they are a flop.

Yet I bet you will struggle to find many players 'flop' who had the tallent and desire to do well and was given the time to settle with game time (ala Lucas)

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Ok' date=' with all the If's and but's we are using :P , I know were you are coming from but lets say last season we gave up on Suarez in his first full season and sold him and signed Cavani.

Lets say like Suarez for whatever reason IF Cavani did not adjust to the EPL right away and in his 1st season BUT played amazing, created tons of chances, scored a few goals BUT missed loads of chances due to the move and metality (as has happened with many, many top players)

Would you then give up on him, sell him and go through the whole process again? I personally prefer to give players (and managers) time to adjust and believe any person given the correct help (if you have the tallent and more 'desire' - which Suarez has bundles of both) then they will always come through.

I bet people can find a million Forlans / Pique's (2 from the top of my head) who have been sold to early or given up on thinking they are a flop.

Yet I bet you will struggle to find many players 'flop' who had the tallent and desire to do well and was given the time to settle with game time (ala Lucas)[/quote']

Personally in that hypothetical scenario I would keep Cavani as he has proved he can score consistently in Serie A and the CL.

The point of Pique and Forlan moulds neatly into my next point which is relevant to the above: Some players are suited to a certain 'culture' of football. It is again entriely feasible that the different way of playing in Spain to the PL benefitted them and they were able to shine - something they 'may' not have done had they stayed in the PL. Cavani may well be suited to Serie A and may have flopped had he come to the PL as it is not his style if you will. However He has the track record of scoring at the highest level in a top league which Suarez currently does not.

However Suarez in Spain 'could' find the style of play a lot more comfortable and bang in 25 goals a year.

As for the Lucas comparison - no there are not many players who are given time to adjust. Off the top of my head I can only think of Juan Pablo Angel, Vidic, Evra and Pires although I am sure there are a few others who took a while to adapt.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

With today being one of the most significant days in the past 23 years for LFC, the first 'leaks' of the Hillsborough reports seem to confirm that 'evidence was amended'.

Whilst this day is significant in the 'closure' of the case that the families are looking for, it is merely the first step of a long legal process toward bringing those responsible to justice.

However one would hope that they would get a lot more support from the powers that be in searching for convictions of those responsible.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

"Today's report is black and white, the Liverpool fans were NOT the cause of the disaster.'' The truth finally comes out 23 years later which is shameful because it took this long.

116 of the 164 South Yorkshire Police statements were doctored to remove unfavourable comments. The scale of the police corruption exposed in Hillsborough report is shocking.

But finally the truth is out and now the world knows THEY LIED.

#DontBuyTheSun #JFT96

With today being one of the most significant days in the past 23 years for LFC' date=' the first 'leaks' of the Hillsborough reports seem to confirm that 'evidence was amended'.

Whilst this day is significant in the 'closure' of the case that the families are looking for, it is merely the first step of a long legal process toward bringing those responsible to justice.

However one would hope that they would get a lot more support from the powers that be in searching for convictions of those responsible.[/quote']

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

"Today's report is black and white' date=' the Liverpool fans were NOT the cause of the disaster.'' The truth finally comes out 23 years later which is shameful because it took this long.

116 of the 164 South Yorkshire Police statements were doctored to remove unfavourable comments. The scale of the police corruption exposed in Hillsborough report is shocking.

But finally the truth is out and now the world knows THEY LIED.

#DontBuyTheSun #JFT96[/quote']

Cannot wait to see the headline 'The Sun' run with tomorrow.

Surely it cannot be anything other than 'We are Sorry too?'.

Now the Govt can show how 'sorry' they are with fully assisting the JFT96 legal cases in bringing those responsible to justice.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Cannot wait to see the headline 'The Sun' run with tomorrow.

Surely it cannot be anything other than 'We are Sorry too?'.

Now the Govt can show how 'sorry' they are with fully assisting the JFT96 legal cases in bringing those responsible to justice.

Criminal charges MUST follow this report too. The truth is revealed now the justice needs to be served

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Criminal charges MUST follow this report too. The truth is revealed now the justice needs to be served

Agreed - but unfortunately there will now need to be 'thorough' investigations which may take some time.

The Govt however should be able to prioritise and 'speed up' this process - it is after all the very least they could do.

The Sun currently the only National paper not running with the 'lies' story - spin doctors already on it etc etc etc.:rolleyes:

However one must not let 'The Sun' become a focal point for this - after all their 'exclusive' was reported AFTER meetings and interviews with the Police.

The Editor chose to use his own opinion and 'facts' in the piece along with this corrupt info given by the Police.

On a side note, if anyone with legal knowledge could assist, it would be appreciated, with the following: Once all the 'facts' are known are we likely to see charges brought against individuals or the Police Force as a whole?

I am aware that 'companies' so to speak, have been convicted of manslaughter and the ilk, but I am wondering if the individuals in the Police can hind behind the 'badge' and avoid any form of prosecution for their actions.

Or could it simply be both can be prosecuted?

Many Thanks.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

I won't be happy until 'The S*n' Apoligise' date=' either that or criminal charges are brought against them for the defamation of Liverpool fans and Liverpool as a club.[/quote']

Agree that an apology is an absolute neccessity from the paper.

However they were given their 'info' by the Police who have now been proven to have been corrupt.

However a defamation suit would be entirely possible for McKenzie, as he included his own 'facts', some which were not given to him by the Police force.

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Guest drseanfitz

Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Information is still sparse on the full report, but what details I've seen so far are worse than I could have imagined.

heard that they think 59 people could have been saved if the right actions had been followed.....

Justice wil hopefully follow, but it'll be too late for the 96

John Alfred Anderson (62)

Colin Mark Ashcroft (19)

James Gary Aspinall (18)

Kester Roger Marcus Ball (16)

Gerard Bernard Patrick Baron (67)

Simon Bell (17)

Barry Sidney Bennett (26)

David John Benson (22)

David William Birtle (22)

Tony Bland (22)

Paul David Brady (21)

Andrew Mark Brookes (26)

Carl Brown (18)

David Steven Brown (25)

Henry Thomas Burke (47)

Peter Andrew Burkett (24)

Paul William Carlile (19)

Raymond Thomas Chapman (50)

Gary Christopher Church (19)

Joseph Clark (29)

Paul Clark (18)

Gary Collins (22)

Stephen Paul Copoc (20)

Tracey Elizabeth Cox (23)

James Philip Delaney (19)

Christopher Barry Devonside (18)

Christopher Edwards (29)

Vincent Michael Fitzsimmons (34)

Thomas Steven Fox (21)

Jon-Paul Gilhooley (10)

Barry Glover (27)

Ian Thomas Glover (20)

Derrick George Godwin (24)

Roy Harry Hamilton (34)

Philip Hammond (14)

Eric Hankin (33)

Gary Harrison (27)

Stephen Francis Harrison (31)

Peter Andrew Harrison (15)

David Hawley (39)

James Robert Hennessy (29)

Paul Anthony Hewitson (26)

Carl Darren Hewitt (17)

Nicholas Michael Hewitt (16)

Sarah Louise Hicks (19)

Victoria Jane Hicks (15)

Gordon Rodney Horn (20)

Arthur Horrocks (41)

Thomas Howard (39)

Thomas Anthony Howard (14)

Eric George Hughes (42)

Alan Johnston (29)

Christine Anne Jones (27)

Gary Philip Jones (18)

Richard Jones (25)

Nicholas Peter Joynes (27)

Anthony Peter Kelly (29)

Michael David Kelly (38)

Carl David Lewis (18)

David William Mather (19)

Brian Christopher Mathews (38)

Francis Joseph McAllister (27)

John McBrien (18)

Marion Hazel McCabe (21)

Joseph Daniel McCarthy (21)

Peter McDonnell (21)

Alan McGlone (28)

Keith McGrath (17)

Paul Brian Murray (14)

Lee Nicol (14)

Stephen Francis O'Neill (17)

Jonathon Owens (18)

William Roy Pemberton (23)

Carl William Rimmer (21)

David George Rimmer (38)

Graham John Roberts (24)

Steven Joseph Robinson (17)

Henry Charles Rogers (17)

Colin Andrew Hugh William Sefton (23)

Inger Shah (38)

Paula Ann Smith (26)

Adam Edward Spearritt (14)

Philip John Steele (15)

David Leonard Thomas (23)

Patrik John Thompson (35)

Peter Reuben Thompson (30)

Stuart Paul William Thompson (17)

Peter Francis Tootle (21)

Christopher James Traynor (26)

Martin Kevin Traynor (16)

Kevin Tyrrell (15)

Colin Wafer (19)

Ian David Whelan (19)

Martin Kenneth Wild (29)

Kevin Daniel Williams (15)

Graham John Wright (17)

Rest in Peace

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

PM statement:

Mr Speaker, I want to be very clear about the view the government takes about these findings and why after 23 years this matters so much, not just for the families but for Liverpool and for our country as a whole.

Mr Speaker what happened that day - and since - was wrong.

It was wrong that the responsible authorities knew Hillsborough did not meet minimum safety standards and yet still allowed the match to go ahead.

It was wrong that the families have had to wait for so long - and fight so hard - just to get to the truth.

And it was wrong that the police changed the records of what happened and tried to blame the fans.

We ask the police to do difficult and often very dangerous things on our behalf.

And South Yorkshire Police is a very different organisation today from what it was then.

But we do the many, many honourable police men and women a great disservice if we try to defend the indefensible.

It was also wrong that neither Lord Justice Taylor nor the Coroner looked properly at the response of the other emergency services.

Again, these are dedicated people who do extraordinary things to serve the public.

But the evidence from today's report makes very difficult reading.

Mr Speaker, with the weight of the new evidence in this Report, it is right for me today as Prime Minister to make a proper apology to the families of the 96 for all they have suffered over the past 23 years.

Indeed, the new evidence that we are presented with today makes clear that these families have suffered a double injustice.

The injustice of the appalling events - the failure of the state to protect their loved ones and the indefensible wait to get to the truth.

And the injustice of the denigration of the deceased - that they were somehow at fault for their own deaths.

On behalf of the Government - and indeed our country - I am profoundly sorry for this double injustice that has been left uncorrected for so long.

Mr Speaker, because of what I have described as the second injustice - the false version of events - not enough people in this country understand what the people of Merseyside have been through.

This appalling death toll of so many loved ones lost was compounded by an attempt to blame the victims.

A narrative about hooliganism on that day was created which led many in the country to accept that it was somehow a grey area.

Today's report is black and white. The Liverpool fans "were not the cause of the disaster".

The Panel has quite simply found "no evidence" in support of allegations of "exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans", "no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the stadium" and "no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying."

Mr Speaker, I'm sure the whole House will want to thank the Bishop of Liverpool and his Panel for all the work they have done.

And I am sure that all sides will join with me in paying tribute to the incredible strength and dignity of the Hillsborough families and the community which has backed them in their long search for justice.

While nothing can ever bring back those who have been lost with all the documents revealed and nothing held back the families, at last, have access to the truth.

And I commend this Statement to the House.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Kelvin MacKenzie, who was the editor of The Sun at the time of the Hillsborough tragedy and who wrote the headline The Truth, today offered his “profuse apologies to the people of Liverpool for that headline”.

Mr MacKenzie added: “It has taken more than two decades, 400,000 documents and a two-year inquiry to discover to my horror that it would have far more accurate had I written the headline The Lies rather than The Truth. I published in good faith and I am sorry that it was so wrong.”

In 2004, The Sun printed an apology over its reporting of the Hillsborough disaster, describing the article as the worst mistake in its history.

So 'The Sun' sticking with their 2004 'apology' it seems:rolleyes:

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

Hillsborough_disaster_Sun.jpg

To be honest, Sun can say what they want but their headlines are unforgivable and such a cheap tactic to sell papers, I doubt MacKenzie is at all remorseful and to take this long to apoligise is disgusting.

But I am so proud of Liverpool today, finally getting the justice we've waited so long for, I may not have been around for Hillsborough but I feel it just the same, to be branded what we have been hearing other fans call us 'Murderers' and say 'Always the Victim, never your fault' hurt so much and disgusted me to my core, because it's not about football it's about 96 innocent lives and family's that have been ruined. It means a lot to see the support from teams like Everton, Sheffield Wednesday and even United fans. Hopefully this can kick start our season after finally getting justice after 23 years. I hope we make this a season to remember on the pitch as well as off the pitch.

381302_470651649633516_809372267_n.jpg

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

People responsible have to be blamed. Not so we can hate them but so that the fans are never blamed again.

Those responsible for the cover up and the headline should be punished even worse. They did not make a mistake - they were calculated. If you watch MOTD or news reports from that day, it was clear to all genuine people that the fans were not to blame.

Mackenzie didn't make a mistake, he was deliberately profiting from what he knew was not true. The inquest were shocking, Stuart Smith is a bad man but at least justice is finally being achieved.

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Re: Official Liverpool Thread

What a sad, sad day :(

I say that because all that these families have been fighting for and what all of us Liverpool fans knew was a institution based cover-up is much, much worse than we ever feared.

The sheer weight of the findings, the ineptitiude, the callous cruel nature of the public Authorities is little short of a national disaster....

The strength of will, charachter, passion that people like Ms.Aspinall and Steve Rotheringham MP have shown to conduct this campaign has been never-ending, never bending, unbreakable force of Human will to finally try and get some kind of peace for those families and more importantly the 96 that have been let down unforgiveably by the authorities in this country that you should be assured are there to help you.

The fact that we have had to suffer a smear campaign from various sources accusing these people of being vengeful, after more compensation etc is little short of scandulous.....

I really cant find the words to explain how angry I feel at the fact that there was an orchastrated campaign by the authorities to smear the name of the INNOCENT dead and there families with lies, lies and more lies....

Today only confirmed what all Liverpool fans knew that we had been treated abysmally, and to all those people who did that and even people on this thread who were saying why do you always play the victim card etc etc....to put it nicely I hope you are ashamed of yourselves.

Finally hopefully the families and those poor 96 victims can feel some sense of peace, some inner comfort, howwever this is not over.....

The fight for the truth may have been won(the fact it took 23 years is little short of a national disgrace) the fight for justice is just beginning, and lets hope it takes a lot shorter time than the disgraceful past 23 years of lies and cover ups :mad:

JFT96

RIP

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