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Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis


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Guest Abdel Zizi

Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

I really laugh at all people disregarding claims of Suarez' greatness, saying I am biased in thinking that.

There are always morrons who don't know **** about football, except how to read their excel and stats site.

These are the same people who said Ronaldo was **** when he came from Lisboa, because he hadn't played that much.

Sheer class is obvious to see, and in this case, it is.

SM is wrong when they base there ratings purely on stats, and even when they do so, they still have to give Suarez a 91.

Throughout the whole day, I have looked up a very interesting stat for the stat whores: Suarez was involved in 138 goals from 193 goals Ajax' made last 2 seasons, whilst he didn't play for 20 of the time these goals were made.

So, effectively, Suarez had a foot in 80 procent of all their goals. Now, again, for the stat whores, 80 ******* procent of all goals is unseen, ever.

Furthermore, his goals alone are only half of what he has to offer. He's the man who makes spades for others by attracting numerous defenders and his running game to set up attack is great.

I don't even care if you rate Suarez' highly, but just don't warrant him 91 because of the league. If you have somewhat of a healty footballing sense, you simply know he's better than most established players. This isn't a goalscorer machine, but a worldbeater. He's not unproven on a big stage, he does the trick everytime, but Ajax lacked luck and a few key players in this Europa League. I didn't help either that both Anderlecht and Zagreb played their best games of the season versus Ajax, and that Ajax' were very unlucky against Juventus.

Suarez warrants a rise, stats wise, playing abilty wise, and common sense wise? Carew, Owen, Pantelic, Guiza, Farfan, Iaquinta, Pandev, Amauri, Negredo, Kone, Cabanas, Milevsky, Frei, Love, Kalou, Yakubu, Crouch and Keane. Just the first names that come up in my mind. Despite the fact they play in far better teams and in better leagues, matter of fact is all these players are not as good as Suarez. It sucks that SM base their ratings only by stats, as anyone who knows anything about it will agree that Suarez is better. Some people will only be happy if Suarez will score against Hull and Portsmouth, because only then he will be a star, but at this moment, Suarez is (far) better than these players. His stats are far more impressive than the stats of these players and his stats are not the most important thing.(fact that stats are higher is normal as he plays inferior teams most of the time)

I'm fed up with arguing over Suarez, anyone who doesn't want him to hit 91 because they are not impressed with his stats, nor the way he plays what you call inferior sides, can stick it and call me in a few years when Suarez is 95 rated, playing for Barcelona.

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Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

They aren't the best stats by any means. This year Fulham have been the second best English side for example' date=' ahead of Chelsea. However, over a 5 year period they are more accurate. The coefficients are accounted for entirely on European competition but how else do you expect the authorities to distinguish between leagues?[/quote']

In my opinion Europa League is merely appreciated because UEFA must hype it a bit. There's not enough money in it that it would be attractive as such, but honestly, what do the clubs care about UEFA coefiicients. Money talks. Where the money lies, there's also high investments. So, getting to CL knockout phase is a bigger achievement than winning the UEFA Cup / Europa League. Just check out how those winners do in CL, or in their respective leagues (often they never get to CL). It's CL that is the measure. The bigger English and French clubs tend to play reserves in UEFA/Europa, if they feel that they have the slightest chance to success in their respective domestic leagues (like TFC this season, PSG last season). It's ridiculous how much UEFA gives weight to Europa League.

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Guest Abdel Zizi

Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

They aren't the best stats by any means. This year Fulham have been the second best English side for example' date=' ahead of Chelsea. However, over a 5 year period they are more accurate. The coefficients are accounted for entirely on European competition but how else do you expect the authorities to distinguish between leagues?[/quote']

Common sense in relation with stats.

With emphasis on common sense.

I hate it when has beens are 93 rated after 2 years of nothing when coming superstars are rated 90 after 2 years or brilliance. How is that representative.

Kanoute, Poulsen et all spring to mind

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Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

I'm surprised that this forum's censorship being harsh enough to censor Diouf's first name, the w-word still goes uncensored. Really surprised. I would have thought it's bit more severe to call people with the name of those who sell their bodies, than to talk about faeces. Well, everyday you learn something new.

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Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

I'm surprised that this forum's censorship being harsh enough to censor Diouf's first name' date=' the w-word still goes uncensored. Really surprised. I would have thought it's bit more severe to call people with the name of those who sell their bodies, than to talk about faeces. Well, everyday you learn something new.[/quote']

Agree 100%

I really laugh at all people disregarding claims of Suarez' greatness' date=' saying I am biased in thinking that.

There are always morrons who don't know **** about football, except how to read their excel and stats site.

These are the same people who said Ronaldo was **** when he came from Lisboa, because he hadn't played that much.

Sheer class is obvious to see, and in this case, it is.

SM is wrong when they base there ratings purely on stats, and even when they do so, they still have to give Suarez a 91.

Throughout the whole day, I have looked up a very interesting stat for the stat whores: Suarez was involved in 138 goals from 193 goals Ajax' made last 2 seasons, whilst he didn't play for 20 of the time these goals were made.

So, effectively, Suarez had a foot in 80 procent of all their goals. Now, again, for the stat whores, 80 ******* procent of all goals is unseen, ever.

Furthermore, his goals alone are only half of what he has to offer. He's the man who makes spades for others by attracting numerous defenders and his running game to set up attack is great.

I don't even care if you rate Suarez' highly, but just don't warrant him 91 because of the league. If you have somewhat of a healty footballing sense, you simply know he's better than most established players. This isn't a goalscorer machine, but a worldbeater. He's not unproven on a big stage, he does the trick everytime, but Ajax lacked luck and a few key players in this Europa League. I didn't help either that both Anderlecht and Zagreb played their best games of the season versus Ajax, and that Ajax' were very unlucky against Juventus.

Suarez warrants a rise, stats wise, playing abilty wise, and common sense wise? Carew, Owen, Pantelic, Guiza, Farfan, Iaquinta, Pandev, Amauri, Negredo, Kone, Cabanas, Milevsky, Frei, Love, Kalou, Yakubu, Crouch and Keane. Just the first names that come up in my mind. Despite the fact they play in far better teams and in better leagues, matter of fact is all these players are not as good as Suarez. It sucks that SM base their ratings only by stats, as anyone who knows anything about it will agree that Suarez is better. Some people will only be happy if Suarez will score against Hull and Portsmouth, because only then he will be a star, but at this moment, Suarez is (far) better than these players. His stats are far more impressive than the stats of these players and his stats are not the most important thing.(fact that stats are higher is normal as he plays inferior teams most of the time)

I'm fed up with arguing over Suarez, anyone who doesn't want him to hit 91 because they are not impressed with his stats, nor the way he plays what you call inferior sides, can stick it and call me in a few years when Suarez is 95 rated, playing for Barcelona.[/quote']

I agree with what you are saying. I'd love to see this fixed too. HOWEVER, based on how SM have been rating players, based on the SM rating system, the rating that he has now is fair. Don't like it, find another game.

Also, can you try to calm down a bit? No need to go over the top like that, no need to use such language and to be so insulting. No one else has taken personnal shots in this thread.

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Guest Abdel Zizi

Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

Agree 100%

I agree with what you are saying. I'd love to see this fixed too. HOWEVER' date=' based on how SM have been rating players, based on the SM rating system, the rating that he has now is fair. Don't like it, find another game.

Also, can you try to calm down a bit? No need to go over the top like that, no need to use such language and to be so insulting. No one else has taken personnal shots in this thread.[/quote']

I am perfectly calm, it just amazes me how ignorant people can be and not even be afraid to etalate that ignorance.

I'll leave it here, I know Suarez is great and that he is a star, time will prove others wrong.

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Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

I am perfectly calm' date=' it just amazes me how ignorant people can be and not even be afraid to etalate that ignorance.

I'll leave it here, I know Suarez is great and that he is a star, time will prove others wrong.[/quote']

Abdel, just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they are ignorant or wrong.

I think Suarez will be a star at a big club too. Even if he does become a star, it doesn't prove anyone wrong. I don't know if you missed it, but that wasn't the debate...

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Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

Some people will only be happy if Suarez will score against Hull and Portsmouth

Hey' date=' you're bending my words quite badly. I said scoring against Hull ain't worse than scoring against Groningen. You disagree there or not? What I talked about, with my example of Bent, was that he scores loads in what is infinitely better league and that he scores against teams like ManU, Chelsea, etc. (very impressive record of 5 goals in 8 matches against the Big Four this season) while Suarez doesn't arrive to score against teams like Anderlecht, Juve (even when they were in middle of crisis and lost to practically everybody). You've got nothing to put against this fact. Perhaps you can say that Sunderland just has so much more class that the team is able to provide more support to Bent than Ajax to Suarez, and I can accept that too, it's not impossible, but it only further undermines the meaning of the goals that Suarez actually has scored (I showed you earlier how your arguments are contradictory and undermine each other). We're not denying that he has been amazing against those poor Eredivisie clubs like Wilem and Vitesse, indeed he has been. What we're saying is, that those teams don't measure, they're not good enough to give Suarez 91/92. It's easier to shine against such a poor clubs than against really competitive clubs, and you can see that from Suarez's Europa League record (and still, that's the Mickey Mouse League, CL is the real deal). He should [b']repeat those performances on top level[/b] to be rated as a star player at the top level, but he hasn't done that. Bent is rated lower, and he has done that. You know, if that Suarez guy, with those merits, would be rated higher than Niang and Chamakh, and as high as Lisandro, it would be disgrace. You really think it's not good enough for him to be rated as high as Chamakh (5 goals in CL against Suarez's 2 goals in the Mickey Mouse Cup)? Or Pjanic, OL's midfield star, scored 4 goals and 4 assists in CL this season. And that with a glorious style. That's way better than scoring 100 goals in Eredivisie. And yes, you can add a lot of really fancy flair when you play in a poor league, but try it against true competition, like Real Madrid, and suddenly it is way more challenging.

The point is, no matter how good or bad he will prove to be in future, his rating now cannot be a prediction of his later merits. It can't but be based on his current merits and they just don't warrant over 90 rating.

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Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

I am perfectly calm' date=' it just amazes me how ignorant people can be and not even be afraid to etalate that ignorance.

I'll leave it here, I know Suarez is great and that he is a star, time will prove others wrong.[/quote']

No-one has ever said Suarez didn't deserve 91 because he wasn't good enough. SM can't rate players on their potential to make it at top clubs and Suarez will have to prove himself at those before he can rise.

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Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

I have Suarez on one of my teams and have surely expected a rise and i'm disappointed but comparing him to players rated higher then him and not as good isn't gonna help in any way; you will always find many examples like that.That just how the rating system in this game works, no one would actually buy players rated above him like trezeguet for example ahead of him in the real world :P

On a different note i wonder if anyone else thought Labyad was supposed to get a rise, he has a few minutes to his name and 2 goals scored against Groningen.

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Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

I'm surprised that this forum's censorship being harsh enough to censor Diouf's first name' date=' the w-word still goes uncensored. Really surprised. I would have thought it's bit more severe to call people with the name of those who sell their bodies, than to talk about faeces. Well, everyday you learn something new.[/quote']

I saw today that some had written C.L.A.S.S and the censor had blanked it out like this CL***

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Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

No-one has ever said Suarez didn't deserve 91 because he wasn't good enough. SM can't rate players on their potential to make it at top clubs and Suarez will have to prove himself at those before he can rise.

Finally some sense.

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Guest Raines

Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

Been reading this thread, some interesting stuff.

I agree with what you are saying. I'd love to see this fixed too. HOWEVER' date=' based on how SM have been rating players, based on the SM rating system, [u']the rating that he has now is fair[/u]. Don't like it, find another game.

The point is it isn't fair. SM may have a specific way of doing things but that doesn't make them right, but I'm sure you know that.

Rating Cap

This is the only reason any can actually come up with not to give Suarez a 91 but even this reason has it's flaws.

1. Christmas last year the Dutch rating cap was 92. A year later it's decreased to 90. The league most definitely hasn't regressed that much.

2. The rating cap for the Dutch league is same as the Scottish league which tbh is ridiculous.

3. How on earth can Ukraine have a rating cap higher than the Dutch league. As mentioned in the first sentence Srna is rated 91. Croatia haven't even qualified for the WC ffs

Totally agree with the underlined bits and most of the rest too. I know the Dutch teams haven't been doing as well in europe recently but can the league standard have decreased in only a year? In my opinion SM needed to give it more time before bringing the cap down.

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Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

Finally some sense.
And yet it is what we've all said for pages now.

It's true that that's been our argument all along :rolleyes: I just tried to sum it up concisely and evidently no-one has disagreed with it yet.

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Guest Abdel Zizi

Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

Hey' date=' you're bending my words quite badly. I said scoring against Hull ain't worse than scoring against Groningen. You disagree there or not? What I talked about, with my example of Bent, was that he scores loads in what is infinitely better league and that he scores against teams like ManU, Chelsea, etc. (very impressive record of 5 goals in 8 matches against the Big Four this season) while Suarez doesn't arrive to score against teams like Anderlecht, Juve (even when they were in middle of crisis and lost to practically everybody). You've got nothing to put against this fact. Perhaps you can say that Sunderland just has so much more class that the team is able to provide more support to Bent than Ajax to Suarez, and I can accept that too, it's not impossible, but it only further undermines the meaning of the goals that Suarez actually has scored (I showed you earlier how your arguments are contradictory and undermine each other). We're not denying that he has been amazing against those poor Eredivisie clubs like Wilem and Vitesse, indeed he has been. What we're saying is, that those teams don't measure, they're not good enough to give Suarez 91/92. It's easier to shine against such a poor clubs than against really competitive clubs, and you can see that from Suarez's Europa League record (and still, that's the Mickey Mouse League, CL is the real deal). He should [b']repeat those performances on top level[/b] to be rated as a star player at the top level, but he hasn't done that. Bent is rated lower, and he has done that. You know, if that Suarez guy, with those merits, would be rated higher than Niang and Chamakh, and as high as Lisandro, it would be disgrace. You really think it's not good enough for him to be rated as high as Chamakh (5 goals in CL against Suarez's 2 goals in the Mickey Mouse Cup)? Or Pjanic, OL's midfield star, scored 4 goals and 4 assists in CL this season. And that with a glorious style. That's way better than scoring 100 goals in Eredivisie. And yes, you can add a lot of really fancy flair when you play in a poor league, but try it against true competition, like Real Madrid, and suddenly it is way more challenging.

The point is, no matter how good or bad he will prove to be in future, his rating now cannot be a prediction of his later merits. It can't but be based on his current merits and they just don't warrant over 90 rating.

I said I wouldn't reply anymore, but I have ot here.

You sir, are obliviant to any of my posts.

It's not because Suarez didn't score 1 goal a game against top sides that he didn't prove himself against top teams.

He was awesome, but just didn't score 49 times against them.

He has 11 goals out of 18 games against big sides, which is better than Bent. You continue to emphasise stats, but fail to use all the stats I gave, which clearly shows you are wrong in believing that Suarez isn't good against top sides.

If you don't like to read my posts but just want to prove your right, than do so, but please, don't reply directly at me so I don't have to reply either.

As for Bent: although I think many English players are vastly overrated (not only in rating, but in common sense around this English based forum), Bent is someone who should be rated 90 himself.

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Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

He has 11 goals out of 18 games against big sides' date=' which is better than Bent.[/quote']

Sorry, but what are your big clubs and where did he score those goals? My count was 1 goal in 7 matches for Suarez and 5 goals in 8 for Bent, and this was very profitable count for Suarez, because out of teams I counted the weakest opponent of Bent (Liverpool) was about as strong as the strongest of Suarez (Marseille).

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Re: Dutch Eredivisie Ratings and Analysis

i think if suarez has good world cup then when it comes to the changes Sm will make give him a +1

I doubt it. If Suarez could have risen whilst playing for Ajax he would be a 91 now. He isn't so I think the only way he can get higher is to move abroad.

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