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Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".  

2 members have voted

  1. 1.

    • Yes
      31
    • No
      54
    • Don't care.
      15


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This can be seen as either a suggestion of a change in the game mechanics or as a plea to players to use this option a little more sparingly when rejecting transfer offers. The reason behind it? To improve harmony within the game, and to increase activity in the transfer market.

All too often I see managers click this option all too readily when a fair deal has been offered, or even when you counter with a reasonable offer after they have just offered a cash-only deal in a GC, which in itself could be viewed as insulting! I would even go so far as saying it is many managers stock response to virtually any deal offered. The problem is, is this option when selected, effectively on many occasions completely terminates any discussion on a deal between managers. In worst case scenarios I have heard of, and seen it actually cause arguments between managers.

Now I appreciate that there are times when a Manager will offer an absolutely ridiculous offer, which could be deemed as insulting; but would it not be better to try to open a discussion with that manager to explain why the deal is being rejected, at least then there may be a chance of getting a deal done that is mutually beneficial? Or then again, what is the "negotiate" button there for? :rolleyes:

Maybe the answer is to have a "free text" option when rejecting deals, so that a tailored explanation can be given; but a good start would be to remove this option, which serves little purpose other than to antagonise.

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

100% agree. Although I do use that message I reserve it for stupid cash offer for player rated 91+. It's misused hell of a lot as you said and leaves no scope for any further discussion.

And I hope I am not "gatecrashing" your thread but there's another message I would like to see included in it. On many occasions the players I receive in p/e are quite good but the players don't occupy the positions I need. So something on the lines of "the player or players offered are not of the required position".

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

Don't worry mate, I don't see it as gatecrashing at all. I think there are plenty of options that would be better than the "insulted" one. Another common one with p/e deals is when you want younger players offered when someone's trying to offload their dinosaurs. Maybe the "free text" field is an option then?

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

Never seen an arguement break out lol

I like the idea of 'free text' maybe say pm to negotiate a bit clearer

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

Don't worry mate' date=' I don't see it as gatecrashing at all. I think there are plenty of options that would be better than the "insulted" one. Another common one with p/e deals is when you want younger players offered when someone's trying to offload their dinosaurs. Maybe the "free text" field is an option then?[/quote']

while i am in favour of the free text, it is better then pre set responses i think you could just send a PM to do that if you really wanted too.......

reason being increasingly managers cant even be bothered to respond to bids or anything and log on every 30 days let aloneenter a free text :o

i like your idea but for arguments sake, couldnt a PM do the same thing virtually ?

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

while i am in favour of the free text' date=' it is better then pre set responses i think you could just send a PM to do that if you really wanted too.......

reason being increasingly managers cant even be bothered to respond to bids or anything and log on every 30 days let aloneenter a free text :o

i like your idea but for arguments sake, couldnt a PM do the same thing virtually ?[/quote']

You will see that I have always been an advocate of doing deals by PM preferably over the pre-set response system from this guide I wrote 18 months ago:

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=32238

Yes a PM does the same job, but actually suffers from being ignored nearly as much as bids. The fact still remains that even though both yourself and I prefer contacting managers directly to do deals, there are still a raft of managers that prefer the other method of using the pre-set responses. What this change seeks to do is to improve relationships within the game as a whole and to stimulate activity in the transfer market by not killing potential deals before they even got off of the ground with a dead-end, overused and often misunderstood response. "Free text" responses are one way round the problem, PMs another, and getting rid of this response is another.

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Guest 1CapWonder

Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

Couldn't agree more!!!

On more than one occasion, I have found myself messaging someone, to explain why they rejected an offer as insulting. They clearly didn't think that it would have repercussions, but for us managers who put thought into what is, and what is not a fair deal, it's really hard to swallow, when your dismissed by an "I'm insulted"

They are clearly not. I seldom use the response if at all possible, but when I generally feel my intelligence is being insulted by a bid, I will use it. I have never received a PM, probably due to the guy trying to con me knowing I'm right.

Anyway, this would prevent me getting very stressed, so I'm all for it mate.

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

I use this option more than any other' date=' I hope it stays.[/quote']

I appreciate that there are two sides to every debate, and given that you are the first to come here and say that you like the "insult" option, and use it more than any other it would be interesting to know why you use it more than any other option? Without meaning to attack you or your point of view, is that a reflection of the offers you receive or the way you communicate with other managers? And exactly what benefits to you does the approach have over other methods you may have tried?

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

I use this option more than any other' date=' I hope it stays.[/quote']

i think the option should stay, but hesse is right and it wouldn't take anything away from the game and for a few of us active managers would really help negotiations :)

i like the idea.

if it is off topic i apologise and ill edit the post to remove this if you deem it inapprioate: anyway.

i think free texts are fine but a chat feature like on facebook would help a lot too.

free text for transfers is good but a fb chat system would really help managers discuss negitations and also allow for a decent reason for a bid being rejected being understood.

eg i reject a bid of 20 million say i want a p/e.

i get a bid of 2 old rubbish players.

a chat would prevent this to-ing and fro-ing so to speak , much like a free text :)

my post describing it is here http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=64685

i included it here beause it is kind of similar to the idea of manager contact / negotations / communication :)

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

I appreciate that there are two sides to every debate' date=' and given that you are the first to come here and say that you like the "insult" option, and use it more than any other it would be interesting to know why you use it more than any other option? Without meaning to attack you or your point of view, is that a reflection of the offers you receive or the way you communicate with other managers? And exactly what benefits to you does the approach have over other methods you may have tried?[/quote']

Because I need it more than others. I don't communicate well with others because most are complete morons. Example- Kept getting rubbish offers for one player from one manager and kept putting the same counter over and over again. (88 and 87 for a 90) and got a pm from the manager saying how naive I was. His rep was 50, mine is 160 something on my first account. The main problem is there is such little choice in the replys. Lost count of how many times the 'custom reply' has been suggested.

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

I PM'd STE a couple months back asking for this to be removed.

I had said that the "I'm insulted" reply should be removed coz a lot of managers maybe newbies and this reply is not kind to them.

Hopefully it'll be removed in the near future.

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

I PM'd STE a couple months back asking for this to be removed.

I had said that the "I'm insulted" reply should be removed coz a lot of managers maybe newbies and this reply is not kind to them.

Hopefully it'll be removed in the near future.

But wouldn't it teach them what are exceptable offers and what aren't. Surely new managers wouldn't be bothered if they saw the insulted reply.

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

But wouldn't it teach them what are exceptable offers and what aren't. Surely new managers wouldn't be bothered if they saw the insulted reply.

yes, I'm sure we can express it in a milder fashion tho, I used "newbies" as an example - I personally get annoyed at managers when i receive this "insult" reply and i'm no newbie.

problem being, some managers click this option for the sake of it and try to wind up others. (not what is was intended for)

example:

Chairman values player at £13m - I offer £26m - and i get the "I'm insulted" reply.

Come on, i've offered DOUBLE what the club's chairman valued the player at.

Lets use it properly - ie player value is £10m and an offer of £2m is bid.

I don't use this anymore and ignore any "insult" replies, so it can go for me coz its not needed.

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

But it's often newbies that get the insulting offers from "experienced" forumers because they think they can shift their droppers and deadweights onto poor unsuspecting folk who don't know what they're doing...

90% of the offers that I get are pretty insulting - cash bid of £500k over CV for Pazzini the most recent example - but I never use the "I am insulted" option as I'm always worried some people might go postal and send me some unsavoury PMs (then slash my car tyres)

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

But it's often newbies that get the insulting offers from "experienced" forumers because they think they can shift their droppers and deadweights onto poor unsuspecting folk who don't know what they're doing...

90% of the offers that I get are pretty insulting - cash bid of £500k over CV for Pazzini the most recent example - but I never use the "I am insulted" option as I'm always worried some people might go postal and send me some unsavoury PMs (then slash my car tyres)

We all try to get players lower price as possible - as in real-life.

The FIRST offer is not what the player will eventually sell for as the 2 clubs negotiate.

As in real-life the selling club want top money - the buyer will tend to bid lower and eventually they come to an agreement or not.

so,the insult reply is not required as we try to get players at best price as possible.

instead of jumping up and pressing "insult" can a manager not click "negotiate" so we know where we stand and we can work to that.

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

I try to avoid using it by all means when i dislike transfer offers on my players.

And I get angry if a manager aswers me that when I make a decent offer on a player of his team.

I support this suggestion B)

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

Finally a thread on this. I also think the option should be removed.

It is just an obnoxious and uninformative way of saying something that can be said more politely and informatively with one of the other options.

If someone offers you a truly derisory offer just choose the option saying you would only accept a considerably higher offer. If you are insulted because you are in a gameworld where cash has no value then say you would only accept a bid involving players. Etc, etc. Then they actually learn something as you have told them why you are insulted.

If you are insulted because someone is pestering you with the same bid or because you have had a run in with them, then it is far more effective to just ignore their bid. They soon get bored of pestering you. Saying you are insulted is like saying "you have successfully got under my skin" and is a red rag to a bull. More bids/PMs will follow from them.

I think I have used the "insulted" response in the past when people have offered me players they know I think will drop for players they know I think will rise. Even then I usually regret my choice of option so I won't be using it again.

Only point I question from the original post is that I think a free text option would be dangerous. I seem to recall something like this once existed and was abused and pulled.

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

I try to avoid using it by all means when i dislike transfer offers on my players.

And I get angry if a manager aswers me that when I make a decent offer on a player of his team.

I support this suggestion B)

What if you 'are' insulted by the initial offer? If you don't like it, then don't use it often, you can use another one of the other 'effective' methods. I personally think that if you say 'I am insulted by this offer,' its actually another way to say "Back off,"

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

If you get an offer and are insulted by it, what is the reason you are insulted? It is probably covered by another option.

If you want them to back off, why not mark the player as unavailable or just use the "do not wish to sell the player" comment?

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

I'm a little bit on the fence with this one. There's a few managers in setup's I'm in that keep use this all the time and it is highly annoying as i don't tend to put in poor offers and i'd like to know what was so insulting, so I'd be in favour of it that way....

However...

There's one particular a manger in one of my set-ups who's in charge of an Arsenal side, who every time i put an offer in for one of his players gives me the response of, ''I do not wish to sell this player but will consider a loan''. Now bearing in mind i've put 70-80 million offers in for Fabregas, Torres, and Villa, and he's countered saying available for loan only, i think the chances of his chairman actually loaning any of them is a bit on the slim side.

From that side of things you would have to say it not the option that's at fault, it's the person clicking the mouse button, much as you'd say it's not the gun that kills you.... Any option is open to abuse that way.

Anyway, there's a point either way, take from it what you will...!

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

From that side of things you would have to say it not the option that's at fault' date=' it's the person clicking the mouse button, much as you'd say it's not the gun that kills you.... Any option is open to abuse that way.[/quote']

Good point, but I think there are too many minors playing SM for it to be safe to risk putting a firearm into the hands of any member. Too risky. :)

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

Good point' date=' but I think there are too many minors playing SM for it to be safe to risk putting a firearm into the hands of any member. Too risky. :)[/quote']

Ha ha, fair point, plus i'd shoot the Arsenal manger!

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

Now that this debate seems to have taken off I kind of wish I had added a poll to try and get an idea of numbers for and against, as not necessarily everyone will take the time to put down their thoughts.

Anyway, as I said the debate has gathered pace whilst I have been offline, so thought I would respond to a few points made.

But wouldn't it teach them what are exceptable offers and what aren't. Surely new managers wouldn't be bothered if they saw the insulted reply.

Surely the only was to teach someone is to give them constructive feedback as to why you are rejecting the deal. What does "I am insulted by this offer" teach them other than that you are not prepared to or are incapable of entering into meaningful communication and/or negotiation? Where are the winners in that? No deals are done between you that could have been and the transfer market has another contributory factor towards stagnation.

We all try to get players lower price as possible - as in real-life.

The FIRST offer is not what the player will eventually sell for as the 2 clubs negotiate.

As in real-life the selling club want top money - the buyer will tend to bid lower and eventually they come to an agreement or not.

so' date='the insult reply is not required as we try to get players at best price as possible.

instead of jumping up and pressing "insult" can a manager not click "negotiate" so we know where we stand and we can work to that.[/quote']

I think that you have hit the nail on the head in many respects there Craig in that we are all looking for a bargain, but quite often that first cheeky bid that many of us are prone to is not the best offer on our mind. If the option was removed to state insulted, would people be more inclined to use negotiate though? Probably not, but it is a behaviour that should be encouraged all the same.

Finally a thread on this. I also think the option should be removed.

It is just an obnoxious and uninformative way of saying something that can be said more politely and informatively with one of the other options.

If someone offers you a truly derisory offer just choose the option saying you would only accept a considerably higher offer. If you are insulted because you are in a gameworld where cash has no value then say you would only accept a bid involving players. Etc' date=' etc. Then they actually learn something as you have told them why you are insulted.

If you are insulted because someone is pestering you with the same bid or because you have had a run in with them, then it is far more effective to just ignore their bid. They soon get bored of pestering you. Saying you are insulted is like saying "you have successfully got under my skin" and is a red rag to a bull. More bids/PMs will follow from them.

I think I have used the "insulted" response in the past when people have offered me players they know I think will drop for players they know I think will rise. Even then I usually regret my choice of option so I won't be using it again.

Only point I question from the original post is that I think a free text option would be dangerous. I seem to recall something like this once existed and was abused and pulled.[/quote']

Teb as always comes along and gets the point across in a simple way! :D The point that has been made here is that there are other options that are just as suitable as long as managers put a little thought into their reply, and that really negates the need in my mind for a "free text" option, and all the issues that Teb points out that it brings.

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Re: Remove the option to say "I am insulted by this offer".

I have added a poll, hope you don't mind.

I sent a ticket to SM pointing them towards this, and I think if other people agree they should do the same as it might get some attention if enough people do this.

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