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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Some pundits think it won't be long until a team from Russia wins the CL.

Its not as bad a league as some people try and make it out to be.

It would be interesting if a Russian team went on to win the UCL. But I couldn't see it happening for a long time until the teams in Russia continue to build. The rich owners will definately help out' date=' so again, if you're still on the forum by the time a Russian team wins the UCL, then I'll hold my hands up again :P

I've called plenty of players money-grabbers in my time, but I know that if I was in the position of Anelka of Eto'o for example, was I really going to say no to that money? It's far too tempting and it's easy to call them money-grabbers because we weren't in their position when it was offered to them. I don't think Samba is one anyway, I think he has seen a good opportunity to join an upcoming team that will make it to the CL very soon with the resources they have.

True, I could see why Anelka and Eto'o left for Russia and China, but Samba was attracting interest from the likes of Arsenal, PSG and there were rumours linking him to the likes of 'Spurs and Newcastle, so if he had held on to the end of the season I could have seen him signing for one of the teams mentioned, or one of equal quality. Fair play to him though, he's left for the right reasons and he will be playing under an experienced manager.

The Russian league is actually of quite a good standard' date='Zenit,CSKA,Rubin Kazan,Lokomotiv Moscow,Dinamo Moscow and Spartak Moscow are all teams possessing good players and have players of a decent standard and you can add Anzhi to that as well.

Kuban Krasondor are also fairly good and whilst the rest of the league is poor I don't see the difference between say the Russian League and the Dutch League,infact I'd probably go as far to say the Russian League is the stronger of the two,with the World Cup in 2018 as well which will improve on the infrastructure in Russian football which is were there behind at the moment,for example Anzhi train in Moscow which is miles from there home ground,part due to terrible facilities and part due to security reasons as well.

Simply due to the sheer amount of money behind it then Russian football will just continue to rise and rise,can afford to spend big money on the likes of Danny,Bruno Alves,Samba and Eto'o means that the country is now a very viable alternative for players to move too.[/quote']

Hands up :P I never really fancied watching Russian football because I always thought it was poor to watch, but now you've said that, I'll be keeping an eye out for a match on TV or on the internet :)

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Hands up :P I never really fancied watching Russian football because I always thought it was poor to watch' date=' but now you've said that, I'll be keeping an eye out for a match on TV or on the internet :)[/quote']

You've really made yourself look like a mug over the last few weeks Newman. Stating that Serie 'A' was on par with the NPC and nothing more, then retracting and saying 'Oh, don't watch Serie A'. If you don't watch a league, or lack knowledge on it, then just keep your mouth shut. Just my view mate.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

The important set of results went Swansea's way today:

Chelsea 3 - 0 Bolton

Newcastle 2 - 2 Wolves

QPR 0 - 1 Fulham

West Brom 4 - 0 Sunderland

Wigan 0 - 0 Aston Villa

From the important ones, it would have been better if Wolves wouldn't have done well to come back for a draw and if Villa would have managed to beat Wigan but nevertheless they were still good results. Whilst Wigan's and Wolves results aren't bad results, they weren't wins which is what is needed for the bottom 5 to catch the rest of the league as the gap between 16th and 15th has remained at 7 points. Wigan need to be beating the mid table sides at home if they've got a chance of staying up in their current situation. Hopefully City will do what they'll be expected to do and beat City later on.

We've remained 9 points clear of the bottom three today regardless of how we get off tommorow. 18th place recentley has been gaining a point a match but today 18th will remain on 21 points, whether it's Blackburn or QPR.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

We finally won a game, never the less it was only Bolton. Going by the stats, its looked like we controlled the possesion and probably should have scored 4. Drogba has got 99 goals in the Premier League now and should get that 100th very soon. We were poor in the first half, but gave a stylish performance in the second half to win by the 3 goal margin. This was a much-needed victory to get their our form back on track ready for Brum and Napoli.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Wigan are sooo bloody frustrating:( Same story every single game, Play nice stuff, dominate possession, create chances and miss them. Add that to the defensive vulnerability and you can see why they're bottom despite having some very good players. Survival still very much possible but need to be making more of the possession and take the odd chance...

btw Bent looked to have a serious ankle injury (was writhing around in pain for about 5 minutes)

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Awful performance yet again. Our gameplan each week is shocking, and we need some investment. We havent replaced all the quality players that left, and we needed to invest in a few positions as it was.

Collins is a calamity. We need a whole new back four but that just isnt going to happen.

Gutted if Bents out for a while, thank god gabby has come back.

Eck really isnt impressing me.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Awful performance yet again. Our gameplan each week is shocking' date=' and we need some investment. We havent replaced all the quality players that left, and we needed to invest in a few positions as it was.

Collins is a calamity. We need a whole new back four but that just isnt going to happen.

Gutted if Bents out for a while, thank god gabby has come back.

Eck really isnt impressing me.[/quote']

This isn't meant as a personal dig at you mate,but I'm fed up of hearing about this lack of investment from Villa's perspective,I'll just take a look at the team that played yesterday as an example.

Given-£4 Million

Hutton-£4 Million

Cuellar-£7.8 Million

Collins-£5 Million

Warnock-£4 Million

Agbonhalor-£0

Bannan-£0

Albrighton-£0

Keane-£0

Gardner-£0

Bent-£24 Million

So the team cost roughly around £50 Million,whilst big signings such as N'zogbia £9 Million,Ireland £7 Million value in p/ex for Milner were on the bench,I'd be asking questions of Mcleish myself and not questioning Randy Lerner's investment,it was way too big for a club like Villa to keep up to be honest.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

This isn't meant as a personal dig at you mate' date='but I'm fed up of hearing about this lack of investment from Villa's perspective,I'll just take a look at the team that played yesterday as an example.

Given-£4 Million

Hutton-£4 Million

Cuellar-£7.8 Million

Collins-£5 Million

Warnock-£4 Million

Agbonhalor-£0

Bannan-£0

Albrighton-£0

Keane-£0

Gardner-£0

Bent-£24 Million

So the team cost roughly around £50 Million,whilst big signings such as N'zogbia £9 Million,Ireland £7 Million value in p/ex for Milner were on the bench,I'd be asking questions of Mcleish myself and not questioning Randy Lerner's investment,it was way too big for a club like Villa to keep up to be honest.[/quote']

Actually can you tell me where I said we have had lack of investment ?

I said we need further investment ( as every club does in fairness ). The vast amount of money invested in our club has been misspent. Leaving us with a small and expensive squad full of players who simply are good enough.

Sick of hearing it ? I think main point most Villa fans have an issue is with the fact that we over the course of three seasons we sold: Barry (12 million), Milner (22 million), Young (18 million) and Downing (20 million) and its not that we have spent money thats come in ( although our spending as of late has been very conservative in comparison to Oneills tenure - over spend that is ) we just havent replaced the quality players that have left the club. Couple that with poor buys and we have a squad who simply isnt good enough.

Your post is quite ignorant to our situation as you have hand picked stats and points to make the argument that us wanting money is bang out of order.

On the Deloitte rich list of football clubs that was released 2 seasons ago we finished 20th in the world in terms of turnover. Although we would of dropped down from that place this season, the fact of the matter is we can make money.

But due to shocking financial mismanagement from Oneill and Lerner, giving ridiculous contracts out to average players, and poor buys to go along with that we have gone from having a squad who was pushing for fourth at one point ( i appreciate even with investment we wouldnt be now due to rise of City, Spurs and other teams improving ) to one which is distinctly average if not poor. We have 1 natual winger in the squad - Marc Albrighton. Our defense is abysmal, no quality or depth !

Simply put if we dont invest we run the massive risk of staying where we are for years to come and god knows where else after.

Replacing the likes of Barry, Milner, Young and even Downing with Ireland, and off form Nzog ( altho I think he will come good ) and not actually replacing the others is always going to end up poorly.

We had no choice to sign a keeper in Given, we just lost Friedal ! Hardly us being frivolous with our money. It was sign a new keeper or play second string keeper who isnt quite up to it and doesnt have the experience.

We signed Hutton ? Woopdy doo, blokes a joke. You cant just look at some of the money we have spent when assessing our club, were currently a joke.

A combination of selling our best players and not replacing them adequately, if at all, with financial mis-manegement, a whole list of poor buys, 2 **** managers coming in, Lerner wanting to sort the wages out ( which is fair enough but it has an effect on the money we can spend currently ) , players being found out for who they really are ( Collins and Dunne ) means were in a shocking state and its going to take a season or two, minimum to sort it out. That would be with a good manager who tries to play the right football, but instead we get eck who simply isnt demonstrating to me at the moment that he is the man for this job and project.

We have gone from finishing 6th, three seasons running, a FA cup semi and a league cup final with some great players to this.........

Yet you say your sick of us wanting investment ? We have seen all that progress thrown away by poor business and management decisions. Then we see a ex blue nose who lets be fair has proven nothing and plays awful football take over.

Could be worse, but only if we got relegated. Sooner or later unless investment comes in Bent is off and that isnt the message we want to be sending out. We need to build around good players.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Actually can you tell me where I said we have had lack of investment ?

I said we need further investment ( as every club does in fairness ). The vast amount of money invested in our club has been misspent. Leaving us with a small and expensive squad full of players who simply are good enough.

Sick of hearing it ? I think main point most Villa fans have an issue is with the fact that we over the course of three seasons we sold: Barry (12 million)' date=' Milner (22 million), Young (18 million) and Downing (20 million) and its not that we have spent money thats come in ( although our spending as of late has been very conservative in comparison to Oneills tenure - over spend that is ) we just havent replaced the quality players that have left the club. Couple that with poor buys and we have a squad who simply isnt good enough.

Your post is quite ignorant to our situation as you have hand picked stats and points to make the argument that us wanting money is bang out of order.

On the Deloitte rich list of football clubs that was released 2 seasons ago we finished 20th in the world in terms of turnover. Although we would of dropped down from that place this season, the fact of the matter is we can make money.

But due to shocking financial mismanagement from Oneill and Lerner, giving ridiculous contracts out to average players, and poor buys to go along with that we have gone from having a squad who was pushing for fourth at one point ( i appreciate even with investment we wouldnt be now due to rise of City, Spurs and other teams improving ) to one which is distinctly average if not poor. We have 1 natual winger in the squad - Marc Albrighton. Our defense is abysmal, no quality or depth !

Simply put if we dont invest we run the massive risk of staying where we are for years to come and god knows where else after.

Replacing the likes of Barry, Milner, Young and even Downing with Ireland, and off form Nzog ( altho I think he will come good ) and not actually replacing the others is always going to end up poorly.

We had no choice to sign a keeper in Given, we just lost Friedal ! Hardly us being frivolous with our money. It was sign a new keeper or play second string keeper who isnt quite up to it and doesnt have the experience.

We signed Hutton ? Woopdy doo, blokes a joke. You cant just look at some of the money we have spent when assessing our club, were currently a joke.

A combination of selling our best players and not replacing them adequately, if at all, with financial mis-manegement, a whole list of poor buys, 2 **** managers coming in, Lerner wanting to sort the wages out ( which is fair enough but it has an effect on the money we can spend currently ) , players being found out for who they really are ( Collins and Dunne ) means were in a shocking state and its going to take a season or two, minimum to sort it out. That would be with a good manager who tries to play the right football, but instead we get eck who simply isnt demonstrating to me at the moment that he is the man for this job and project.

We have gone from finishing 6th, three seasons running, a FA cup semi and a league cup final with some great players to this.........

Yet you say your sick of us wanting investment ? We have seen all that progress thrown away by poor business and management decisions. Then we see a ex blue nose who lets be fair has proven nothing and plays awful football take over.

Could be worse, but only if we got relegated. Sooner or later unless investment comes in Bent is off and that isnt the message we want to be sending out. We need to build around good players.[/quote']

Start off by saying when you said you needed more investment you was also implying there wasn't enough recent investment so I'll apologise for that.

Anyway how I have hand picked facts? I went off the team that played yesterday to show you how much it cost and whilst I think the investment has been there and I don't think a great deal more is needed,I didn't even mention the likes of regulars in Dunne and Petrov who both cost around £6 Million each which would add another £12 Million to the toal of the team,the reason I didn't mention them? because they didn't play and it's as simple as that.

As for the Barry,Milner,Young and Downing money you had to make those sales purely because you spent money you didn't have in the past,the likes of Bent,Reo Coker,Petrov,Collins,Dunne,Makoun,Delph,Sidwell,Luke Young and Cuellar joined for £5 Million or more,where's the money gone? well the Milner money went on Bent and the rest of the money has gone on the other players above,you ran at massive losses to sustain a Champions League push,once that wasn't realistic anymore you had to cut your cloth accordingly.

With regards to the Deloitte list the main reason you don't finish any higher up is simple,you didn't sell your ground out too often when you were competing for the top six and you definitely don't sell out now.

As for the mismanagement by Lerner/O'Neill then that's fine to say now,but then why do the vast majority of Villa fans seem to not be able to realise there won't be any investment coming purely because of this reason,or mainly because that all the money that was there went solely on Bent and not focused on using it to build a good and quality squad,as for natural wingers isn't that what N'zogbia is there for?,you've got two capable wingers there and Agbonhalor has done well on the wide left even though it's his natural position,admittidely you could do a bit more depth in that position,but then why loan in someone like Jenas when you had decent depth there in Delph,Makoun,Petrov,Bannan,Ireland and Gardner,surely you could have used those funds to loan in a winger instead?.

With Given yes he was a good signing,never said he wasn't and that was £4 Million well spent,just purely pointing out how much he cost was all :P.

Hutton was a terrible signing admittidely but then did he ever prove himself to be a fantastic player when at Spurs or Sunderland on loan? his worse than I thought he was to be worse but then I never thought he was all that great to begin with.

I know I'll get slated for this but was Houllier really that bad? I know he left because of his heart,but you did seem to play decent football and from a difficult situation took you to a 9th place finish,admittidely Mcleish is absouletely terrible and I won't even try and argue with that.

The reason you got there is because you spent money you just didn't have and as you said it'll take a long time before you get there again,Lerner can't just continue to spend money he doesn't have and even if he did would you really be in the top four as of now anyway?,I know you'll probably cite us as an example,but frankly we went on a miracle run at the start of the season and kept it up well since then and even now I don't think we stand a chance of the top four,just don't think a team like Villa will have the resources to compete with the likes of Spurs,Chelsea,Liverpool,Arsenal and the two Manchester clubs on a regular basis.

I'm sick of hearing that because the investment was there and frankly your team is still a good one that should be competing in the top half of the table,not a poor one that should be discarded and throw money at new side like is the case with some other sides,it's nothing to do with you it's just 90% of Villa fans I talk to go on like they've never spent any money whatsoever when that's far from the case.

Well Bent's a mercenary anyway tbh and will go to whoever him offers more money,and if he was to leave and the money was used well I think it could be just what Villa need.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Start off by saying when you said you needed more investment you was also implying there wasn't enough recent investment so I'll apologise for that.

Anyway how I have hand picked facts? I went off the team that played yesterday to show you how much it cost and whilst I think the investment has been there and I don't think a great deal more is needed' date='I didn't even mention the likes of regulars in Dunne and Petrov who both cost around £6 Million each which would add another £12 Million to the toal of the team,the reason I didn't mention them? because they didn't play and it's as simple as that.

As for the Barry,Milner,Young and Downing money you had to make those sales purely because you spent money you didn't have in the past,the likes of Bent,Reo Coker,Petrov,Collins,Dunne,Makoun,Delph,Sidwell,Luke Young and Cuellar joined for £5 Million or more,where's the money gone? well the Milner money went on Bent and the rest of the money has gone on the other players above,you ran at massive losses to sustain a Champions League push,once that wasn't realistic anymore you had to cut your cloth accordingly.

With regards to the Deloitte list the main reason you don't finish any higher up is simple,you didn't sell your ground out too often when you were competing for the top six and you definitely don't sell out now.

As for the mismanagement by Lerner/O'Neill then that's fine to say now,but then why do the vast majority of Villa fans seem to not be able to realise there won't be any investment coming purely because of this reason,or mainly because that all the money that was there went solely on Bent and not focused on using it to build a good and quality squad,as for natural wingers isn't that what N'zogbia is there for?,you've got two capable wingers there and Agbonhalor has done well on the wide left even though it's his natural position,admittidely you could do a bit more depth in that position,but then why loan in someone like Jenas when you had decent depth there in Delph,Makoun,Petrov,Bannan,Ireland and Gardner,surely you could have used those funds to loan in a winger instead?.

With Given yes he was a good signing,never said he wasn't and that was £4 Million well spent,just purely pointing out how much he cost was all :P.

Hutton was a terrible signing admittidely but then did he ever prove himself to be a fantastic player when at Spurs or Sunderland on loan? his worse than I thought he was to be worse but then I never thought he was all that great to begin with.

I know I'll get slated for this but was Houllier really that bad? I know he left because of his heart,but you did seem to play decent football and from a difficult situation took you to a 9th place finish,admittidely Mcleish is absouletely terrible and I won't even try and argue with that.

The reason you got there is because you spent money you just didn't have and as you said it'll take a long time before you get there again,Lerner can't just continue to spend money he doesn't have and even if he did would you really be in the top four as of now anyway?,I know you'll probably cite us as an example,but frankly we went on a miracle run at the start of the season and kept it up well since then and even now I don't think we stand a chance of the top four,just don't think a team like Villa will have the resources to compete with the likes of Spurs,Chelsea,Liverpool,Arsenal and the two Manchester clubs on a regular basis.

I'm sick of hearing that because the investment was there and frankly your team is still a good one that should be competing in the top half of the table,not a poor one that should be discarded and throw money at new side like is the case with some other sides,it's nothing to do with you it's just 90% of Villa fans I talk to go on like they've never spent any money whatsoever when that's far from the case.

Well Bent's a mercenary anyway tbh and will go to whoever him offers more money,and if he was to leave and the money was used well I think it could be just what Villa need.[/quote']

I'm starting to feel like Villa might become the new West Ham. INseadt of investing sensibly, they're paying over the odds for "proven" PL players, who seem more like failed PL players to me at the moment. If these players don't perform a top half level, the response can't be to buy more of them. Aston Villa need to look outside the PL to the likes of the Championship, Ligue 1 and Portugal.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Im off to the Brittania stadium shortly to watch our game against Norwich.

Should be a good game to watch and im expecting a win, 3-0 or 3-1 to Stoke despite them being higher in the league table.

Predicted line up: Begovic, Wilkinson, Shawcross, Upson, Wilson, Shotton, Whitehead, Palacios, Etherington, Crouch, Walters.

Robert Huths back from suspension but dosent have a guarnteed place after Upson had a good game against Swansea last week.

As far as I no pennants fit but Shotton is expected to play on the right wing again.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Amazing win today for the Swans, two great goals by Gylfi Sigurdsson, watch out for his celebration for the first one :P Dyer's red card was harsh, whether or not it'll be rescinded or not i'm unsure - the FA are very inconconsistant with these sorts of decisions but if they judge it the way they judged Delap's it will be rescinded.

33 points now, 11 clear of 18th. I think 35 points will be enough, Man. City up next will be a very tough game but there's always a chance of a result when we're at home.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Was a very cagey encounter today at the Brit, It was a dead game really, but the game lifted when Kenwyne Jones and Cameron Jerome came on for Peter Crouch and Jonathon Walters, a flick on from Jerome give Etherington the opportunity to finish from a tight angle and he did :D

36 points on the board now, Just 3 behind Liverpool !

We are safe ! :P IMO.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Amazing win today for the Swans' date=' two great goals by Gylfi Sigurdsson, watch out for his celebration for the first one :P Dyer's red card was harsh, whether or not it'll be rescinded or not i'm unsure - the FA are very inconconsistant with these sorts of decisions but if they judge it the way they judged Delap's it will be rescinded.

33 points now, 11 clear of 18th. I think 35 points will be enough, Man. City up next will be a very tough game but there's always a chance of a result when we're at home.[/quote']

Just watched MOTD.

Dyer's red was a definate red, pal. There was no nasty intent but it was very wreckless and his momentum forced him into a sort of 'stamp' tackle. No way it should be rescinded.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Just watched MOTD.

Dyer's red was a definate red' date=' pal. There was no nasty intent but it was very wreckless and his momentum forced him into a sort of 'stamp' tackle. No way it should be rescinded.[/quote']

I can see why the referee gave the decision but i think it was harsh to give him a red card. Based on the FA's decisions on appeals this season I can see tackles that would suggest that Dyer's red card would or would not be rescinded.

If you compare it to their most recent appeal of Rory Delap which was seen as not a red card by the FA then Dyer's will definatly be rescinded. If you compare it to some of the tackles made by the likes of Milijas, Huth and Spearing that weren't rescinded then it definatly won't be rescinded.

I think it's worth putting an appeal in and hope for the best, missing Dyer for Man. City, Fulham and Everton would be a big blow for us but thankfully we've got Wayne Routledge for cover who has impressed when he's featured.

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