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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Surely the 'Top 6' sides should be excluded from this?

Sigurdsson cannot be picked' date=' he's only played half a season! :P[/quote']

EPL Alternative Team of the Season :

20124alternativetots.jpg

If you look closely, the white writing says excluding the big 5 and includes Newcastle players (well, just the one, which is ridiculous considering their league position) :)

Cisse's only played half a season too but he's scored numerous important goals. As has Sigurdsson to be fair...

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Can't believe we lost that 3-0, the only difference was QPR were able to put away their chances. Dominated the first half and that goal right before half time was very harsh, we didn't deserve to go in at the break behind. We were very unlucky with the second goal, Mackie was a yard offside and yet another cruel deflection resulting in us conceding. Buzasky's goal was unstoppable, but it should have been a penalty up the other end - in fairness to the referee his view was blocked off but he did have a poor game and didn't give us several decisions in my opinion.

Oh, and i hope Jay Bothroyd enjoys warming the bench and being disliked by his own fans and players.

Thankfully there's only three days in between today and Blackburn, so hopefully the result will soon be forgotten. Beating Blackburn will be difficult, they're fighting for their lives just as Wigan and QPR were tonight but hopefully the mistfortune we've had of late, especially in our last couple of games turns around. Our performances don't reflect 4 consecutive defeats.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

It's going to be down to who fights hardest in this relegation scrap. Wolves are as good as down IMO and Villa look limp and likely to be caught. Wigan' date=' QPR, Bolton and Blackburn are all battling it out.[/quote']

Villa only need a win imo and cant see them not getting it. Wigan have a great set of fixtures left apart from Arsenal (though the way they've played vs Liverpool, us and Chelsea who knows!) and I can see at least 7 points from those games.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

This last week has proven what a farce the FA is (as if we didn't already know). In my humble opinion, then entire disciplinary system needs to be entirely overhauled. These are the decisions over the past week that have made me wonder what on earth is going on within the FA.

  • Shaun Derry sent off
  • Sean Derry's appeal rejected
  • Anthony Modeste's red card rescinded
  • Branislav Ivanovic charged with violent conduct (correct decision but shows they have the capacity to look at events retrospectively)

It is beyond me why Shaun Derry's red card has been upheld by the FA despite Ashley Young being two yards offside and contact being minimal at best. This brings me onto my next point. Recently we have seen so many examples of blatant diving it is embarrassing as an English football fan. There are the obvious ones (must stress in my opinion) of Andy Carroll vs. Newcastle and Ashley Young vs. QPR however Mark Davies vs. Bolton and John Arne Riise vs. Chelsea seem to have slipped somewhat under the radar.

When are the FA going to firstly introduce goal line technology but also introduce retrospective actions against blatant cheating. I am of the school that says that harsh punishments should be handed out retrospectively to those seen to be diving. I would be in favour of a system along the lines of you dive once, you're banned for one game. Caught again and it's a two game ban, third time and it's three game ban. This would surely eradicate the problem quickly. There is no incentive for players to stop diving.

My second point is regarding rescinding red cards. How is it that Shaun Derry must sit out three games now for QPR whilst Anthony Modeste appealed against his red card successfully and is now available for Blackburn again. Modeste clearly kicked out at his opponent whom I can't remember who off the top of my head, but for those who did not see it, look it up. It was a clear sending off for violent conduct yet his red card has been rescinded and Shaun Derrys has not. Derry is another victim of diving and Modeste seems to be let off the hook.

Thirdly why is it that Ivanovic is receiving a retrospective charge on the basis of video evidence (rightly so in my opinion) but they cannot use the same techniques to look at video evidence to rescind Shaun Derry's red card and uphold Anthony Modeste's.

Before someone points out the idiotic ruling whereby if the ref 'deals with it' on the pitch or does not see it then the FA cannot retrospectively act, this is exactly the kind of backward policy that proves how outdated and farcical the FA is as an organisation. They need to change their policies to move the game forward. Currently we are the laughing stock of football when it comes to this topic.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

There is no farce involved in charging Ivanovic' date=' he deserves a big ban for those punches he threw.

But yeah FA is a farce[/quote']

No I agree - I was using it as an example to say that the FA have the capacity to retrospectively change decisions - so why was Modeste's red overturned and Derry's not. And why can they not retrospectively reprimand drivers.

Ivanovic deserves to be banned, and more than just three games in my opinion. In rugby, throwing a punch can land you with an 8, 10, 12 week ban, sometimes even more. That is a deterrent.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

I think the punishment for a dive should be simple. Doesn't matter if the referee catches it or not, it's an automatic yellow card added to the tally (if the referee produces a yellow card for the dive during the game this is not necessary) plus a 1 game ban which doubles per offence.

1st offence 1 match ban, 2nd is a 2 game ban, 3rd is a 4 game ban as they should have learnt by now and if they're stupid enough to do it for a 4th time an 8 game ban. The additional yellow cards would mean that if a player had 4 bookings and is cited for a dive he gets the 1 game ban plus an additional game ban for reaching 5 bookings.

There should also be team punishments for those who fail to stop their players from diving. This could be either a fine or an accumulative tally reaching a point deduction (3 dives and a 1 point deduction or something along those lines).

I'd love to see how many players continue to dive with those rules in place.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

That massive post and not a mention of the FA's failure to further punish Balotelli because the ref 'saw it'?

Good read' date=' though.[/quote']

I knew there was one I forgot about. Balotelli shouldn't play again this season for his assault on Alex Song. Simply one of the worst tackles i've seen this season.

I think the punishment for a dive should be simple. Doesn't matter if the referee catches it or not' date=' it's an automatic yellow card added to the tally (if the referee produces a yellow card for the dive during the game this is not necessary) plus a 1 game ban which doubles per offence.

1st offence 1 match ban, 2nd is a 2 game ban, 3rd is a 4 game ban as they should have learnt by now and if they're stupid enough to do it for a 4th time an 8 game ban. The additional yellow cards would mean that if a player had 4 bookings and is cited for a dive he gets the 1 game ban plus an additional game ban for reaching 5 bookings.

There should also be team punishments for those who fail to stop their players from diving. This could be either a fine or an accumulative tally reaching a point deduction (3 dives and a 1 point deduction or something along those lines).

I'd love to see how many players continue to dive with those rules in place.[/quote']

I second this completely. The only way to stamp it out is to have harsh punishments to actually act as deterrents. Warn them all at the start of a season, then if they are stupid enough to do it, they know the consequences.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

This last week has proven what a farce the FA is (as if we didn't already know). In my humble opinion' date=' then entire disciplinary system needs to be entirely overhauled. These are the decisions over the past week that have made me wonder what on earth is going on within the FA.

[list']

[*]Shaun Derry sent off

[*]Sean Derry's appeal rejected

[*]Anthony Modeste's red card rescinded

[*]Branislav Ivanovic charged with violent conduct (correct decision but shows they have the capacity to look at events retrospectively)

It is beyond me why Shaun Derry's red card has been upheld by the FA despite Ashley Young being two yards offside and contact being minimal at best. This brings me onto my next point. Recently we have seen so many examples of blatant diving it is embarrassing as an English football fan. There are the obvious ones (must stress in my opinion) of Andy Carroll vs. Newcastle and Ashley Young vs. QPR however Mark Davies vs. Bolton and John Arne Riise vs. Chelsea seem to have slipped somewhat under the radar.

When are the FA going to firstly introduce goal line technology but also introduce retrospective actions against blatant cheating. I am of the school that says that harsh punishments should be handed out retrospectively to those seen to be diving. I would be in favour of a system along the lines of you dive once, you're banned for one game. Caught again and it's a two game ban, third time and it's three game ban. This would surely eradicate the problem quickly. There is no incentive for players to stop diving.

My second point is regarding rescinding red cards. How is it that Shaun Derry must sit out three games now for QPR whilst Anthony Modeste appealed against his red card successfully and is now available for Blackburn again. Modeste clearly kicked out at his opponent whom I can't remember who off the top of my head, but for those who did not see it, look it up. It was a clear sending off for violent conduct yet his red card has been rescinded and Shaun Derrys has not. Derry is another victim of diving and Modeste seems to be let off the hook.

Thirdly why is it that Ivanovic is receiving a retrospective charge on the basis of video evidence (rightly so in my opinion) but they cannot use the same techniques to look at video evidence to rescind Shaun Derry's red card and uphold Anthony Modeste's.

Before someone points out the idiotic ruling whereby if the ref 'deals with it' on the pitch or does not see it then the FA cannot retrospectively act, this is exactly the kind of backward policy that proves how outdated and farcical the FA is as an organisation. They need to change their policies to move the game forward. Currently we are the laughing stock of football when it comes to this topic.

As i've explained below, when you look at the laws of the games then there's no question that Shaun Derry's appeal was going to be rejected. Oh, and Derry only misses the 1 game as it was a red card for denying a goalscoring opportunity, but in reality whilst most would disagree he definatly should have been given an extra game ban as QPR didn't have a proper appeal.

As for Ivanovic, none of the officials saw the incident so the FA were entitled to re-referee the decision. They couldn't re-referee the Balotelli decision, the FA had no choice, as the officials did have a view of the decision even if they didn't see the full extent of the tackle. If the FA were to re-referee

As for the Modesete red card, I may need to see it again but it looked like a clear red card for me.

The FA are making a lot of correct calls, there's some decisions that i don't think have helped the FA at all. The Delap card not being rescinded when in my opinion they gave in to the pressure they put Stoke under them after the Huth red card wasn't succesfully appealed. Appealing Wayne Rooney's red card that results in him missing a couple of games in the Euro's did make the FA very hypocritical about adding a game on to a ban, as this season they've added a game on to the bans of Robert Huth and Vincent Kompany for their red cards.

But in comparison to the UEFA the FA are far from a laughing stock. This year in the Europa League for Porto's racist chants they were fined 20,000 euros whilst Manchester City were fined 30,000 euros for entering the pitch late in a Europa League game.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

As i've explained below' date=' when you look at the laws of the games then there's no question that Shaun Derry's appeal was going to be rejected. Oh, and Derry only misses the 1 game as it was a red card for denying a goalscoring opportunity, but in reality whilst most would disagree he definatly should have been given an extra game ban as QPR didn't have a proper appeal.

As for Ivanovic, none of the officials saw the incident so the FA were entitled to re-referee the decision. They couldn't re-referee the Balotelli decision, the FA had no choice, as the officials did have a view of the decision even if they didn't see the full extent of the tackle. If the FA were to re-referee

As for the Modesete red card, I may need to see it again but it looked like a clear red card for me.

The FA are making a lot of correct calls, there's some decisions that i don't think have helped the FA at all. The Delap card not being rescinded when in my opinion they gave in to the pressure they put Stoke under them after the Huth red card wasn't succesfully appealed. Appealing Wayne Rooney's red card that results in him missing a couple of games in the Euro's did make the FA very hypocritical about adding a game on to a ban, as this season they've added a game on to the bans of Robert Huth and Vincent Kompany for their red cards.

But in comparison to the UEFA the FA are far from a laughing stock. This year in the Europa League for Porto's racist chants they were fined 20,000 euros whilst Manchester City were fined 30,000 euros for entering the pitch late in a Europa League game.[/quote']

Whether or not the decisions are right or wrong I admin are open to debate and entirely subjective. However my main underlying point is the FA (and certainly UEFA and FIFA as well) have to be modernised in their running of the game. If Alex Song had his studs planted and broke his leg he would have been out for months whilst Balotelli would have got away with it as the ref didn't see the extent? It's ridiculous how such a global and publicised sport with so much at stake through very small margins doesn't have a citing system. It's been proven to work within other sports, especially rugby, so why can it not be introduced into football?

The bodies governing the game are too stubborn to firstly admit something needs to be changed and secondly change it. The referees need help, they're human and can be expected to make mistakes. That's not the referees fault, I'd hate to be given responsibility to ref a huge game that could decide title/relegation/cup winners that could be worth in excess of £30m in front of 80,000 and be expected to make a split second decision from 20 yards away through twelves players when they're running full tilt. The refs need all the help they can get and I feel the FA/UEFA or whoever simply aren't giving it to them.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Whether or not the decisions are right or wrong I admin are open to debate and entirely subjective. However my main underlying point is the FA (and certainly UEFA and FIFA as well) have to be modernised in their running of the game. If Alex Song had his studs planted and broke his leg he would have been out for months whilst Balotelli would have got away with it as the ref didn't see the extent? It's ridiculous how such a global and publicised sport with so much at stake through very small margins doesn't have a citing system. It's been proven to work within other sports' date=' especially rugby, so why can it not be introduced into football?

The bodies governing the game are too stubborn to firstly admit something needs to be changed and secondly change it. The referees need help, they're human and can be expected to make mistakes. That's not the referees fault, I'd hate to be given responsibility to ref a huge game that could decide title/relegation/cup winners that could be worth in excess of £30m in front of 80,000 and be expected to make a split second decision from 20 yards away through twelves players when they're running full tilt. The refs need all the help they can get and I feel the FA/UEFA or whoever simply aren't giving it to them.[/quote']

FIFA don't want referees to re-referee decisions, and the FA is just following the standard procedure.

The officials should have spotted the Balotelli tackle, i could see it in real time that Balotelli had planted his studs in to Song and i'm sure if not the referee, the linesman should have seen the incident and Balotelli should have been given a red card on the night.

As for officials needing more help, i don't think they do besides goal line technology. Goal line technology will help the game but i don't think they should re officiate everything, and introducing new technology to help referees would have to be approved by FIFA for the FA to use it.

I don't think the FA have showed weakness in the last week or so, possibly aside from Modesete's red card being succesfully appealed.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

I don't think the FA have made the wrong decisions but I think they have the wrong rules.

The classic argument against technology in football is that the referees' human error adds another element to the game. So, the authorities recognise that referees make mistakes yet their own rules forbid them from retrospectively rectifying them.

Bit silly really.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

FIFA don't want referees to re-referee decisions' date=' and the FA is just following the standard procedure.

The officials should have spotted the Balotelli tackle, i could see it in real time that Balotelli had planted his studs in to Song and i'm sure if not the referee, the linesman should have seen the incident and Balotelli should have been given a red card on the night.

As for officials needing more help, i don't think they do besides goal line technology. Goal line technology will help the game but i don't think they should re officiate everything, and introducing new technology to help referees would have to be approved by FIFA for the FA to use it.

I don't think the FA have showed weakness in the last week or so, possibly aside from Modesete's red card being succesfully appealed.[/quote']

Officials get so much stick especially in this country and they are not helped by blatent cheating to try and trick them into making a wrong decision. I'm glad that referees are starting to book divers and they should have the balls to do so. However, when players dupe referees into giving the wrong decision, they should be retrospectively punished. Why is it that people seem to be almost accepting diving as part of the game. It should never be. It is blatent cheating and should be treated as such with harsh punishments to act as a proper deterrent.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

I don't think the FA have made the wrong decisions but I think they have the wrong rules.

The classic argument against technology in football is that the referees' human error adds another element to the game. So' date=' the authorities recognise that referees make mistakes yet their own rules forbid them from retrospectively rectifying them.

Bit silly really.[/quote']

Yes, possibly. But at the start of the season there wasn't any criticsm at the FA when releasing the seasons laws of the game that the wording of certain laws was perhaps incorrect.

I think in the summer though the laws will be changed for the better, and be made a lot more clearer for what sort of tackle is or isn't a red card.

Officials get so much stick especially in this country and they are not helped by blatent cheating to try and trick them into making a wrong decision. I'm glad that referees are starting to book divers and they should have the balls to do so. However' date=' when players dupe referees into giving the wrong decision, they should be retrospectively punished. Why is it that people seem to be almost accepting diving as part of the game. It should never be. It is blatent cheating and should be treated as such with harsh punishments to act as a proper deterrent.[/quote']

Well that's down to the media really. The FA generally do fine managers for slating referees, i guess a touchline suspension would be a stronger punishment but it's not the managers giving referees stick that's the biggest problem it's the media, pundits and commentators slating officials. The way the linesman was treated in the Bolton-QPR game by the commentators was a disgrace.

Officials need to stamp out diving more by producing more bookings for diving. The only player in the Premier League to be booked more then once for simulation this season is Gareth Bale, who's been booked twice which isn't a high enough rate.

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Re: Premiership 2011/2012 Discussion

Well that's down to the media really. The FA generally do fine managers for slating referees' date=' i guess a touchline suspension would be a stronger punishment but it's not the managers giving referees stick that's the biggest problem it's the media, pundits and commentators slating officials. The way the linesman was treated in the Bolton-QPR game by the commentators was a disgrace.

Officials need to stamp out diving more by producing more bookings for diving. The only player in the Premier League to be booked more then once for simulation this season is Gareth Bale, who's been booked twice which isn't a high enough rate.[/quote']

I somewhat agree with your first point however I despise the fact that referees do not come out to speak to the media. I feel that speaking to the media about contentious decisions will do more good than bad. I hate to keep going back to Rugby as an example, but referees speak to TV/Radio after games if there was a bad/wrong/contentious decision and they explain why they gave it. And they admit when they get it wrong. I feel that a lot of fans would welcome listening to what referees have to say about some of their decisions.

As for the second one I completely agree. More bookings needed and if not, ban them. We'll see how many people dive again once they miss 1/2/3/4 games a season because of it. I bet it would become a rarer and rarer occurrence

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