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Official Premier League Discussion Thread


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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

Refs are a joke' date=' they ruin a few games every week.

Onto our game, another crap league performance. It is amazing how much our performances differ in Europe to in the League.[/quote']

Its gone beyond the joke mate.

As for Everton? I don't get them this season at all,I keep expecting them to go on a decent run in the league,but a very disappointing result for them yesterday.

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

It would give them no excuses' date='it works very successfully in rugby.[/quote']

Exactly.

The only argument I've seen against it is that it could slow down play, but it wouldn't even be that big of a stoppage. I'd rather add a minute or two onto the game than see my side on the wrong end of a bad decision that cost us the game.

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

Are you daft? He clearly got a big chunk of the a ball with his left' date=' and then the follow through takes Sterling down. Is he meant to magically stop dead after touching the ball on a ice rink of a surface? Even Carragher said it wasn't a penalty, if that's a penalty just make slide tackles illegal right now.[/quote']

You know what, I don't particularly care about that call that much. Personally I think it's a penalty, there's much, much more contact than any of the Southampton penalty calls.

You thought Southampton deserved three penalties, let's not be silly here. I would counter by calling you daft, but then again, I don't need to.

About the refereeing decisions, video replay would be good, but I reckon we can do a challenge system, so each manager has one challenge a game, and there's a committee in London that watches the video and confers with the ref. So pretty much like the NFL. I also like the idea that referees should explain their decisions.

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

You know what' date=' I don't particularly care about that call that much. Personally I think it's a penalty, there's much, much more contact than any of the Southampton penalty calls.

You thought Southampton deserved three penalties, let's not be silly here. I would counter by calling you daft, but then again, I don't need to.

About the refereeing decisions, video replay would be good, but I reckon we can do a challenge system, so each manager has one challenge a game, and there's a committee in London that watches the video and confers with the ref. So pretty much like the NFL. I also like the idea that referees should explain their decisions.[/quote']

Where did I say I thought we deserved three penalties? I stated the events didn't give my opinion. The 2nd was just as blatant as they come, a ridiculous decision. All the other calls were much much more borderline, in of themselves they aren't that aggrieving, if just one of those happened in a game I wouldn't feel hard done by, but when all of them happen in one half of football and we get abosolutely nothing? Ridiculous.

As for the Sterling one, don't even need to discuss it - you stated it was a penalty because he made contact with his right, I told you he didn't, you just go 'doesn't matter it's a penalty anyway', I disprove that and now you 'don't particularly care' haha. :D

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

Where did I say I thought we deserved three penalties? I stated the events didn't give my opinion. The 2nd was just as blatant as they come' date=' a ridiculous decision. All the other calls were much much more borderline, in of themselves they aren't that aggrieving, if just one of those happened in a game I wouldn't feel hard done by, but when all of them happen in one half of football and we get abosolutely nothing? Ridiculous.

As for the Sterling one, don't even need to discuss it - you stated it was a penalty because he made contact with his right, I told you he didn't, you just go 'doesn't matter it's a penalty anyway', I disprove that and now you 'don't particularly care' haha. :D[/quote']

You know what, I was going to not have an argument here, but since you're being obtuse on purpose. Let's go. I said I didn't care because I don't really want to get into an argument.

We all agreed on the second penalty shout for Southampton, nobody is discussing that, no idea why you even want to bring that up.

As for the Sterling penalty shout. You are seriously nitpicking if you're picking the "flaw" in my argument for me mistaking which foot Sterling gets cleared out with. There are many, many ways to make a tackle without completely following through and taking out someone's leg.

Honestly, I didn't really say anything when you called me daft, but if you can prove that you have a modicum more intelligence more than I do, then I will submit that you are correct and never argue against you again. But to end up calling names and starting to nitpick, you know that you don't really know how to argue in an educated manner do you?

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

You know what' date=' I don't particularly care about that call that much. [b']Personally I think it's a penalty, there's much, much more contact than any of the Southampton penalty calls.[/b]

You thought Southampton deserved three penalties, let's not be silly here. I would counter by calling you daft, but then again, I don't need to.

About the refereeing decisions, video replay would be good, but I reckon we can do a challenge system, so each manager has one challenge a game, and there's a committee in London that watches the video and confers with the ref. So pretty much like the NFL. I also like the idea that referees should explain their decisions.

More-so than the 2nd Southampton penalty incident. Are you on drugs?

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

More-so than the 2nd Southampton penalty incident. Are you on drugs?

READ THE SENTENCE.

I did not say it was a clearer penalty shout. How in the world have you two not accepted that I clearly admit it was a stonewall penalty' date=' the most definite penalty in the game.

I said there was more [b']contact[/b]. As in Fonte got more of Sterling than Allen got of Djuricic. Just because you get more contact does not mean it's more of a foul. I don't get how you just fail to understand basic English here.

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

You know what' date=' I was going to not have an argument here, but since you're being obtuse on purpose. Let's go. I said I didn't care because I don't really want to get into an argument.

We all agreed on the second penalty shout for Southampton, nobody is discussing that, no idea why you even want to bring that up.

As for the Sterling penalty shout. You are seriously nitpicking if you're picking the "flaw" in my argument for me mistaking which foot Sterling gets cleared out with. There are many, many ways to make a tackle without completely following through and taking out someone's leg.

Honestly, I didn't really say anything when you called me daft, but if you can prove that you have a modicum more intelligence more than I do, then I will submit that you are correct and never argue against you again. But to end up calling names and starting to nitpick, you know that you don't really know how to argue in an educated manner do you?[/quote']

I brought up the second because you decided to state my opinions for me (Definitely arguing in an educated manner!), so I thought I should clear them up for you.

To call outright correcting you nitpicking is pretty laughable to me as it is a huge distinction between which leg Fonte made contact with. If he made contact with his right first or overly followed through with it, penalty all day long as he did not play the ball with that leg and the former scenario would have been clearly tripping Sterling before playing ball whilst the latter would be a reckless challenge. If he makes contact with his left after playing the ball, as he did, it is 100% legal providing he was not showing his studs or otherwise making a reckless or dangerous challenge, which he did not. 'Contact' is categorically not an offence in football, this is a modern obsession and simply a dumbing-down of the rules usually used by uninsightful pundits, so to base your argument purely on the basis of there being 'contact' gives you no leg to stand on.

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

I brought up the second because you decided to state my opinions for me (Definitely arguing in an educated manner!)' date=' so I thought I should clear them up for you.

To call outright correcting you nitpicking is pretty laughable to me as it is a huge distinction between which leg Fonte made contact with. If he made contact with his right first or overly followed through with it, penalty all day long as he did not play the ball with that leg and the former scenario would have been clearly tripping Sterling before playing ball whilst the latter would be a reckless challenge. If he makes contact with his left after playing the ball, as he did, it is 100% legal providing he was not showing his studs or otherwise making a reckless or dangerous challenge, which he did not. 'Contact' is categorically not an offence in football, this is a modern obsession and simply a dumbing-down of the rules usually used by uninsightful pundits, so to base your argument purely on the basis of there being 'contact' gives you no leg to stand on.[/quote']

It's like banging your head against the wall and hoping to not crack your head open every time. Goddamn it I should have never been sucked into this.

My point about which leg he clears Sterling out was not important in my argument. It was that Sterling got cleared out. Which is a foul. Honestly, if that happened to Sadio Mane or Eljero Elia, you'd be clamoring for a penalty too. I'm not clamoring for one, I'm not incensed it wasn't given, sometimes deicisons go against you, sometimes they go for you. Getting the ball first does not equate not fouling. We've seen that so many times I don't really think I need to explain it any further to you.

I think it's a penalty. You don't think it's a penalty. The second penalty shout for Southampton we agree on. You also thought that Lovren handballed it and the first incident was also a penalty. At the end of the day we won, I'm happy, you're still bitter about penalty calls, and you somehow still think you're more intelligent than me. I guess we'll call that even.

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

It's like banging your head against the wall and hoping to not crack your head open every time. Goddamn it I should have never been sucked into this.

My point about which leg he clears Sterling out was not important in my argument. It was that Sterling got cleared out. Which is a foul. Honestly' date=' if that happened to Sadio Mane or Eljero Elia, you'd be clamoring for a penalty too. I'm not clamoring for one, I'm not incensed it wasn't given, sometimes deicisons go against you, sometimes they go for you. Getting the ball first does not equate not fouling. We've seen that so many times I don't really think I need to explain it any further to you.

I think it's a penalty. You don't think it's a penalty. The second penalty shout for Southampton we agree on. You also thought that Lovren handballed it and the first incident was also a penalty. At the end of the day we won, I'm happy, you're still bitter about penalty calls, and you somehow still think you're more intelligent than me. I guess we'll call that even.[/quote']

You've built such an impressive strawman there, once again inventing my opinions for me and randomly bleating on about intelligence, I'm not even going to bother discussing any further with you. Good day pal. :)

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

You know what' date=' I don't particularly care about that call that much. Personally I think it's a penalty, there's much, much more contact than any of the Southampton penalty calls.

You thought Southampton deserved three penalties, let's not be silly here. I would counter by calling you daft, but then again, I don't need to.

About the refereeing decisions, video replay would be good, but I reckon we can do a challenge system, so each manager has one challenge a game, and there's a committee in London that watches the video and confers with the ref. So pretty much like the NFL. I also like the idea that referees should explain their decisions.[/quote']

You would often need more than one challenge per game! :P

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

I am gunna do what nobody does and actually stick up for Refs, let's be honest it is an absolute no win situation and to do what they do under the most vile of working conditions, the abuse they suffer (most of e time wrongly) it's a wonder anybody would want to do the job.

In e modern age where every single incident is rewound 100x with about fourty different cameras, the pace of the game it is such a difficult job and they receive stick that is often misplaced.

The problem is Everytime they get something wrong it is so highlighted that an unfair perception of refs is given. No ref goes out there to make mistakes, no ref goes out there with pre conceived visions of bias they will make mistakes they are only human but if you actually study what they do they are actually pretty damn good at there job.

I think I read the other day in an independent study that they get between them (the ref and the linesman) 96% of decisions correct or something of that ilk which really given the modern game is an amazing statistic and shows how good they are the majority if the time.

They will make mistakes but they get highlighted, nobody highlights the excellent decisions they get right (there ar a lot more than those)

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

Not going to quote you Ray, as it's a long post, but that's an opinion I've shared. Everything they do is scrutinised and there is no let up - very rarely do you see managers or fans praising a good official.

However, I really think that this season there has been a serious decline in the quality of referees. At least a couple of games every week seem to get at least a couple of big talking points from the officials. This weekend, for example, we've obviously had the penalty shouts and missed foul by Barnes in the Chelsea game and then penalty shouts missed and cards not given in the Liverpool game today. It's happening more often.

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

I agree as well that they have a hard job. Especially in the modern era when the game is played so quickly, to be able to keep up is very difficult.

Like I said before I don't mind officials missing calls so much but when it is the glaring obvious then I have an issue with them. More so when it happens right in front of the official yet they still don't call it correctly.

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

Not going to quote you Ray' date=' as it's a long post, but that's an opinion I've shared. Everything they do is scrutinised and there is no let up - very rarely do you see managers or fans praising a good official.

However, I really think that this season there has been a serious decline in the quality of referees. At least a couple of games every week seem to get at least a couple of big talking points from the officials. This weekend, for example, we've obviously had the penalty shouts and missed foul by Barnes in the Chelsea game and then penalty shouts missed and cards not given in the Liverpool game today. It's happening more often.[/quote']

Each week there is always going to be a few decisions but that's the nature of the game as I say in the main they get nearly everything right and they don't have the benefit of cameras or loads of replays that we all have, it is easy to say these things with the technology we have but they have the naked eye and TBH with the pace of the game, borderline decisions I am astonished quite how much they get right.

I am firmly AGAINST any more technology in football but then that is another debate. I only wanted Goalline technology as that is a statement of FACT, any other decisions for me are subjective and the beauty of football is the pace of the game the non stop action as soon as it gets introduced it will be introduced for everything and I don't want football to turn into this American football/rugby stroke environment with stoppages every thirty seconds and games lasting two hours or more etc..

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

No doubt referees and linesmen have a very tough job but can only give them so much leeway, like Stu said the standard just isn't good enough especially this season. Changes be need to be made to improve, help, and incentivise refereeing.

One simple thing that would make a difference long-term is I think they should be paid a lot, lot more, which seems funny when I think they're not doing well enough. At the moment I believe PL refs make between £20-50k plus match fees, so on average PL players are making in a week what they do in a year. Don't know what it's like going down lower but can't be much. To get more referees involved at the lower levels, providing more quality and competition, you need to incentivise it and at the moment they're doing what can be a very rough job for not that much with the money coming into the game.

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

No doubt referees and linesmen have a very tough job but can only give them so much leeway' date=' like Stu said the standard just isn't good enough especially this season. Changes be need to be made to improve, help, and incentivise refereeing.

One simple thing that would make a difference long-term is I think they should be paid a lot, lot more, which seems funny when I think they're not doing well enough. At the moment I believe PL refs make between £20-50k plus match fees, so on average PL players are making in a week what they do in a year. Don't know what it's like going down lower but can't be much. To get more referees involved at the lower levels, providing more quality and competition, you need to incentivise it and at the moment they're doing what can be a very rough job for not that much with the money coming into the game.[/quote']

£20-50k? for a ref that is more than enough, police officers only make at maximum around 40k and we know who's job is harder.

As I've stated before the only way you'll start to iron out high profile mistakes is to make the refs accountable, post match interviews etc, they can get away with anything so what's the incentive to do better? You'll get taken off the premier league for a couple of weeks and that's it, you come straight back to your job.

I'm unsurprised that the standard of reffing has gone down this season and there is less criticism from the FA since Webb took a high profile spot on the Refereeing association.

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

£20-50k? for a ref that is more than enough' date=' police officers only make at maximum around 40k and we know who's job is harder.[/b']

As I've stated before the only way you'll start to iron out high profile mistakes is to make the refs accountable, post match interviews etc, they can get away with anything so what's the incentive to do better? You'll get taken off the premier league for a couple of weeks and that's it, you come straight back to your job.

I'm unsurprised that the standard of reffing has gone down this season and there is less criticism from the FA since Webb took a high profile spot on the Refereeing association.

Unfortunately that's not how the world works though mate, footballers make millions a year and all they do is kick a ball around. Money makes the world go round, and more money means more referees means more competition meaning a better standard at the top of the pyramid right the way down. And it's not like football isn't up to the eyeballs in money right now.

*EDIT* Do agree that they should be much more accountable, don't know anyone who doesn't agree with that though!

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Re: Official Premier League Discussion Thread

You've built such an impressive strawman there' date=' once again inventing my opinions for me and randomly bleating on about intelligence, I'm not even going to bother discussing any further with you. Good day pal. :)[/quote']

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2964244/Liverpool-Southampton-penalties-balanced-referee-Kevin-Friend-end.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Graham Poll apparently agrees with me. :rolleyes:

You would often need more than one challenge per game! :P

Yeah, but limiting to one is huge, because it doesn't slow down the game.

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