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Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?


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With the new rules now in force forthis season, teams accross the EPl will be finalising their 25-man squad for the season. For many, it will be a straight-forward procedure as they don't really have the means to maintain large squads. But for some of the big boys, there are some major decisions to be made. The main clubs affected would seemingly be Man U, tottenham and Man C this time round, but this number may grow with time and the continued trend of buying overseas players accross the league.

Sir Alex is facing up to the dilemma of whether to include Hargreaves and Anderson in his 25-man squad. With their injury problems, it appears he may well overlook at least one of these players. Tottenham face a similar dilemma with Woodgate. can they afford to risk him being part of their 25-man squad and leae out a player who can guarantee a better fitness level? The issue with Man C is slightly different in that they simply have too many players to go into the 25-man squad and are stil looking for more.

So what will happen to the likes of Hargreaves, Anderson, Woodgate, Santa Cruz, possibly Steven Ireland etc if the clubs choose not to include them in their 25-man squads for the season. Will there be cheap bargains on offer for other sides? Will the sides attempt to loan them out? Could this be the prelude to a new form of cancelling of contracts? Will players with injury problems be thrown onto the scrap-heap by clubs all round? How will the PFA respond to this and will they attemptto have it overturned if too many of the players are being left in limbo? Certainly interesting times ahead.

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

Good discussion this should be.

IMO, it's a good idea to have been put into the EPL if your a team like Wigan, Blackburn etc.. as they don't really have the same amount of funds City have, and City will just keep buying and buying if this wasn't brought in and they could have 4 squads.

City will now have see the downside of this as if they don't sell, wages will catch up with them and they'll be paying £85,000 a week for a player who was demoted to the reserves because of this.

Being a United supporter, I really don't like this because it means that Ferguson will now have to leave out Anderson/Hargreaves and I love those 2. :o

It's definately an idea brought in to help get behind the lower class teams in the league, which will now give them chances to get higher in the league imo, otherwise it could just all completely fail. :P

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

To be honest, I can see this rule benefiting the lower clubs in the Prem and the Championship clubs. Because, the players who couldn't get in the squad would seek going to another club and would turn out to be a good bargain for the lower clubs. It won't end their careers. If anybody has a passion for the game, they won't retire just because they can't get in a 25 man squad, they'll work hard to show they are worthy of a deal at another club. As for the cancelling of contracts, that wouldn't happen as it would cost clubs too much, and, in the current climate, they won't take the risk.

I can see a lot of loaning going on though because of this rule, but clubs may still be reluctant to do that because they are still on the books.

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

To be honest' date=' I can see this rule benefiting the lower clubs in the Prem and the Championship clubs. Because, the players who couldn't get in the squad would seek going to another club and would turn out to be a good bargain for the lower clubs. It won't end their careers. If anybody has a passion for the game, they won't retire just because they can't get in a 25 man squad, they'll work hard to show they are worthy of a deal at another club. As for the cancelling of contracts, that wouldn't happen as it would cost clubs too much, and, in the current climate, they won't take the risk.

I can see a lot of loaning going on though because of this rule, but clubs may still be reluctant to do that because they are still on the books.[/quote']

I'm hoping the bargain avenue comes into fruition too, but it won't happen in all cases. Take woodgate or Hargreaves for example. Not sure too many clubs would be prepared to play the premium Tottenham or Man U would likely ask for them, knowing their recent injury record. Neither will clubs be too forward in taking them on loan for the same reasons. The players could then be left in limbo. In their eyes they may feel they are fit, but unable to play football anywhere for a season. Players will in effect be on gardening leave. Some would probably be quite happy for this to be the case. But will there come a time when either the player or the club will want to challenge the status quo? Could we see a new ruling ala Bosman or Webster? It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility I feel.

My mention of 'prematurely end' was not necessarily suggesting the players would retire, but more the fact that they be forced to take several steps down to get a game, thereby curtailing their ambition at the highest level. and that quite possibly after a season on the sidelines. At the end of the day, only time will tell, but certainly clubs are going to have to be more streetwise in their selections/transfers as this pseudo-squad cap comes into play.

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

I'm hoping the bargain avenue comes into fruition too' date=' but it won't happen in all cases. Take woodgate or Hargreaves for example. Not sure too many clubs would be prepared to play the premium Tottenham or Man U would likely ask for them, knowing their recent injury record. Neither will clubs be too forward in taking them on loan for the same reasons. The players could then be left in limbo. In their eyes they may feel they are fit, but unable to play football anywhere for a season. Players will in effect be on gardening leave. Some would probably be quite happy for this to be the case. But will there come a time when either the player or the club will want to challenge the status quo? Could we see a new ruling ala Bosman or Webster? It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility I feel.[/quote']

To be honest, I think Woodgate and especially Hargreaves would be happy with just reserve team football and gaining fitness until January, I can't see there being much of a problem with those two until January at the earliest. I agree, teams are unlikely to want to take those sorts of players on, but if they can stay fit for a while then maybe teams will think differently.

And, for the gardening leave bit, as you kind of said, some players would probably be delighted to rake the money in without actually having to do anything at all other than turn up to training. But, the flip side of that is why on earth should clubs pay 60-80k to players who can't play. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw clauses and appearances bonuses in players contracts due to the fact their game time may be limited.

Can players who aren't registered still play in cup competitions?

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

Don't think it's too much of a probelm for United. I could be wrong but the 25 man squad will look something like this

VDS

Kuczak

Neville

Evans

Rio

Vidic

Evra

Brown

O'Shea

Valencia

Gibson'

Carrick

Giggs

Nani

Scholes

Park

Fletcher

Rooney

Berbatov

Owen

Hernandez

Diouf (if he does not go out on loan)

That's 22 players if I count correctly. Obertan would qualify to play because he is 21 or under(?). So we could fit both Anderson and hargreaves if required and De Laet who I did not include in above. In any case hargreaves is done with football so I doubt it matters one bit if hes in the squad or not

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

I think several players will have to take a step down but while this might not be great for them personally, it'll level the playing field a lot across the Premier League. I'm very interested to see where Liverpool are going to find 8 home-grown players :o

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

I posted this on another thread but I will post it again:

Now the main point of my post is not so much to talk about league predictions because it is far too soon to do that. I want to talk about the new rule that has been introduced this season' date=' which states that all teams must have a squad of 25 players, of which 8 must be "home grown" now this was supposedly meant to counter what the FA think is an increasing influx of foreign talent and a decline in England's pool - or rather, "slightly moist puddle", as I like to view it - of talent. I do not view this as a step forwards because it handicaps quite a few teams in several ways but I also don't agree because there are several loopholes in the rule:

[list'] [*] The most obvious one is that "home-grown" simply means that that player has to have trained with an English or Welsh side (or multiple side) for three years prior to thier 21st birthday. That means players like Fabregas, N'Zogbia and Clichy are all "home-grown" and in one or two years time players like Macheda, Kakuta, Borini and others will all become home-grown so it means that the plan of getting more English players playing backfires a bit.

[*]If a team does actually have to go out and buy English players to fill their quota, then there is no obligation for these players to actually play. And if they do, who is to say they will not be out of their depth in the Premier League? If you can't cut it at 17, when you'd have gone through the academy and would be in the reserves, it is unlikely you will improve drastically and become Premier League quality. I understand that at 17 you won't be as good as a player in his mid 20s or so and is at the fittest state he will ever be in his footballing career and life, but there is a significant difference between a 17 year old playing like a typical 17 year old and a 17 year old that is clearly out of their depth and won't cut it in the Premier League. This means you could get a lot more situations like the 2009 allegations of tapping up in English football

[*]There is another little problem with this new ruling. A good example to use to demonstrate this is Scott Sutter. If you don't know him he was born in Enfield in north London and lived in Potter's Bar (just outside London) until he was 16, when he decided to move to Switzerland to pursue a football career. He played for Grasshoppers before moving to BSC Young Boys where he is now a regular first teamer there. They finished second behind Basel and qualified for the Champions League third qualifying round (the same round that Celtic qualified for). He is now 24 and even though he has lived in Switzerland for 8 years and actually represented their U21 side he has stated he wants to represent England at senior level. Now that's all good and well but he no longer qualifies as a home grown player because between the ages of 16-21 when you get a professional contract he was playing outside of England and Wales. I think this brings about two problems: Because he plays outside of the UK, however well he plays it is unlikely he will be noticed (and he played almost every game for BSC Young Boys last season). The other issue is that if an English player is sent out on loan to a club abroad, it jeopardises their status as a home-grown player (although they can still train at the English club for the three required years) and I don't see a lot of teams having more than 8 or 9 home grown players. It means that going on loan abroad, where you can play in a much better environment than the poor coaching on offer here, can have a negative effect. Because it is much better to go on loan to a team like Le Mans, Charleroi, NEC, Genk, Auxerre, Roda - or in general, teams in the bottom half of leagues in and around that level - than to go to a team like Brentford, Grimsby, Rotherham etc where you don't get to play against top class players, which is good practise for later on in your career.

If you ask me I am neutralistic on the subject of foreigners in the league. If managers wish to buy a team full of foreigners they should be allowed to do so, likewise if a manager wants only Englishman in his side. I also think the problem goes back to poor coaching before joining a club, where skill and technique are to this day still frowned upon and waved away in favour of strength.

That's my two cents on the matter.

I posted this a week or so ago on the Premier League thread and in the context of this argument there are two sides of the coin. Yes you might get loans here, there and everywhere but on the other hand if teams can't have that player as it means they'd have more than 25 players then that player is stuck, and a lot of players don't want to play in the lower leagues because they think it will hinder their careers.

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

I think several players will have to take a step down but while this might not be great for them personally' date=' it'll level the playing field a lot across the Premier League. I'm very interested to see where Liverpool are going to find 8 home-grown players :o[/quote']

Johnson

Carragher

Gerrard

Shelvey

Cole

Insua

Ayala

Spearing

Kelly

That is 9 and there are a few more Liverpool had out on loan.

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

Johnson

Carragher

Gerrard

Shelvey

Cole

Insua

Ayala

Spearing

Kelly

That is 9 and there are a few more Liverpool had out on loan.

That's not the point though. Only Carra, Gerrard, johnson(you forgot him) and Cole are good enough atm. We for example can afford not to include Welbeck in our side despite being home grown.

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

That's not the point though. Only Carra' date=' Gerrard, johnson(you forgot him) and Cole are good enough atm. We for example can afford not to include Welbeck in our side despite being home grown.[/quote']

That is why it will help in the future. If Liverpool have to include some players in that list then I think they will pay more attention to the academy and get English players coming through. They do sign foreign youngsters but there will still be English players too. If every club has to seriously look at academy systems to bring in new players then the standard will improve.

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

An under 21. ;):)

The point I am making is Liverpool will have to include players like Shelvey, Ayala in their squad when they are not ready to start yet despite them being U21. And they wil take up squad places when Liverpool could have used those places to include someone better

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

That is why it will help in the future. If Liverpool have to include some players in that list then I think they will pay more attention to the academy and get English players coming through. They do sign foreign youngsters but there will still be English players too. If every club has to seriously look at academy systems to bring in new players then the standard will improve.

Or alternatively they'll just buy young English players from the lower division clubs (e.g Shelvey) and they may not get a proper chance to develop with regular football.

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

That is why it will help in the future. If Liverpool have to include some players in that list then I think they will pay more attention to the academy and get English players coming through. They do sign foreign youngsters but there will still be English players too. If every club has to seriously look at academy systems to bring in new players then the standard will improve.

Or it could lead to clubs snapping up good English players and hindering their development.

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

Or it could lead to clubs snapping up good English players and hindering their development.

Only time will tell but something had to change and this could be it. There aren't many top English players around after the likes of Rooney, Gerrand and Lampard etc so if academy setups improve there will be more good players to pick from and they will be playing for different teams throughout the division instead of all being rounded up by the big sides.

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

Only time will tell but something had to change and this could be it. There aren't many top English players around after the likes of Rooney' date=' Gerrand and Lampard etc so if academy setups improve there will be more good players to pick from and they will be playing for different teams throughout the division instead of all being rounded up by the big sides.[/quote']

Problem is many young talented English players just wile away their talent in the reserves. Take today's U19 game for example. Spain took it seriously but English clubs refused to let go of players like Jones, Rodwell, Wilshere, Baxter, Shelvey,Welbeck etc.. What's the point in playing them pre-season and then hardly playing them during season...

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Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

Only time will tell but something had to change and this could be it. There aren't many top English players around after the likes of Rooney' date=' Gerrand and Lampard etc so if academy setups improve there will be more good players to pick from and they will be playing for different teams throughout the division instead of all being rounded up by the big sides.[/quote']

But I'd say it's quite possibly going to be what me and Hercule said though because some teams may not feel they are in a financial position to do things to their academy.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: Will the new 25-man squad rules in the EPL prematurely end players' careers?

It looks as if there could be evidence that Smartdoc may well be right, as Bellamy has talked of retiring if he doesn't make City's 25 man squad. Personally I don't think he genuinely means that and that he would go through with it, but it would be wrong to completely dismiss what he's saying!

Even he doesn't retire, it could well end up in him dropping down a bit to get a game, quite possibly to Cardiff. (which would obviously be great for them, and would give them a great chance of promotion, which would mean some good has come out of this). But it would be a shame to see a player of his quality out of the Premiership, as he does have a lot to offer.

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