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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread 2010/11 With the Bundesliga becoming stronger again and so more people might being interested in the Bundesliga I thought it would be a good idea to make a

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Courtois got competition from Mignolet....a lot of pressure on him :rolleyes:

What's pressure got to do with it? Again if you're good enough you will cement your place in the NT, if you're nervous and feeling the pressure then that is just another weak point as a goalkeeper

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

What's pressure got to do with it? Again if you're good enough you will cement your place in the NT' date=' if you're nervous and feeling the pressure then that is just another weak point as a goalkeeper[/quote']

Better leave it there.I got your bias towards Courtois.No reason to tell me that again.While you only compete with Mignolet you're going relaxed on the pitch.While you got Neuer and Low is in love with Neuer...you're going extremely stressed on the pitch,especially for a 21 years old kid.When you want to do a lot on the pitch it usually becomes a rubbish game for you.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Better leave it there.I got your bias towards Courtois.No reason to tell me that again.While you only compete with Mignolet you're going relaxed on the pitch.While you got Neuer and Low is in love with Neuer...you're going extremely stressed on the pitch' date='especially for a 21 years old kid.When you want to do a lot on the pitch it usually becomes a rubbish game for you.[/quote']

Except Ter Stegen doesn't compete with Neuer but with Zieler, Leno and co. for the 3rd goalie position....

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Better leave it there.I got your bias towards Courtois.No reason to tell me that again.While you only compete with Mignolet you're going relaxed on the pitch.While you got Neuer and Low is in love with Neuer...you're going extremely stressed on the pitch' date='especially for a 21 years old kid.When you want to do a lot on the pitch it usually becomes a rubbish game for you.[/quote']

21 is no longer a kid. It's a full grown man. I could understand what you're saying if TS was 17/18 years old making his debut but c'mon he's been around long enough not to feel the pressure you'd imagine. And what Courtois bias? Lol, I was just giving you and example of where the keeper can perform for his NT at a young age

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

You have Courtois who at the age of 19/20 was keeping clean sheets for Belgium. Age shouldn't be relevant' date=' if you're good enough, you'll be good regardless 20 or 35[/quote']

Very poor comparison - Courtois has in his time played in European and Domestic finals and has been playing at a club who have much more expected of them.

I would suggest it is not a case of age more of experiance with Ter Stegen. I am not sure if you are watching the game but 3 of the 4 goals were nothing to do with Ter Stegen, 1st and 3rd you could have had Ter Stegen, Neuer and Courtois in goals together - they would have still went in.

He may have a poor goals to game ratio but having seen the game tonight I wouldnt say he has been helped by those in front of him.

I have seen Hart drop a number of clangers throughout the season both domestically and internationally, I wouldnt recommend Hart as a model of consistency to any aspiring keeper.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Very poor comparison - Courtois has in his time played in European and Domestic finals and has been playing at a club who have much more expected of them.

I would suggest it is not a case of age more of experiance with Ter Stegen. I am not sure if you are watching the game but 3 of the 4 goals were nothing to do with Ter Stegen' date=' 1st and 3rd you could have had Ter Stegen, Neuer and Courtois in goals together - they would have still went in.

He may have a poor goals to game ratio but having seen the game tonight I wouldnt say he has been helped by those in front of him.

I have seen Hart drop a number of clangers throughout the season both domestically and internationally, I wouldnt recommend Hart as a model of consistency to any aspiring keeper.[/quote']

Why is it poor? I gave an example of a young keeper who can be successful at a young age. Not watching the game just merely commenting on his international record, and I'm sure that a better keeper would certainly have conceded less in those 3 games. This is precisely the point I'm making, if a keeper is good, a goal will be scored due to poor defending, if the keeper is superb, he will still prevent that goal from being scored half the time. I can't comment on tonight's goals of course, I'm just assuming. If they were all 100% unsavable then fair play, but from what I heard T.S had a clanger? Finally yes Hart didn't have his best season, but for overall consistency he's up there with the worlds best, and that's coming from a United fan.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Why is it poor? I gave an example of a young keeper who can be successful at a young age. Not watching the game just merely commenting on his international record' date=' and I'm sure that a better keeper would certainly have conceded less in those 3 games. This is precisely the point I'm making, if a keeper is good, a goal will be scored due to poor defending, if the keeper is superb, he will still prevent that goal from being scored half the time. I can't comment on tonight's goals of course, I'm just assuming. If they were all 100% unsavable then fair play, but from what I heard T.S had a clanger? Finally yes Hart didn't have his best season, but for overall consistency he's up there with the worlds best, and that's coming from a United fan.[/quote']

One mistake which can happen to anybody even to your Courtois.TS is simply unlucky because he has a rubbish defence in front of him...He can't block them all..He made a few brilliant saves tonight too,nobody pointing them out though

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Why is it poor? I gave an example of a young keeper who can be successful at a young age. Not watching the game just merely commenting on his international record' date=' and I'm sure that a better keeper would certainly have conceded less in those 3 games. This is precisely the point I'm making, if a keeper is good, a goal will be scored due to poor defending, if the keeper is superb, he will still prevent that goal from being scored half the time. I can't comment on tonight's goals of course, I'm just assuming. If they were all 100% unsavable then fair play, but from what I heard T.S had a clanger? Finally yes Hart didn't have his best season, but for overall consistency he's up there with the worlds best, and that's coming from a United fan.[/quote']

Ter Stegen has only played in friendly matches at international level, in all of these games he has never had the luxury of having a first choice German side in front of him.

I am sure his international record includes a game behind only 9 men, having to come on as a sub and save a pen from Messi.

He had a horror moment for the 2nd, no way he could have saved any of the others tonight. Just seems grossly unfair to judge a player based on the above.

In his 2 full seasons at domestic level I think he has shown he can go on to a high level and would say for his club side he has been succesful, in all likelyhood they may well have ended up in Div 2 were it not for him not so long ago.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Hart got experience' date='Hart is 25.Ter Stegen got no experience,he's 21 and he simply got the pressure on him because he knows that it is one of his only chance to prove that he is better then Neuer(he actually is...just that Low will never ever favour a player who's coming from Gladbach over a Munich one)[/quote']

If Low prefer Neuer over Ter Stegen,it fully justified because of the capabilities,not only because of the clubs where they play. Ter Stegen is talented,no doubt about that,but so far nothing will convince he is ready to take number 1 spot. He can get experience on the club aswell without included in national team,so i don't see your point about not giving him experience is valid either. He can always come back to national team if he keeps making progress and showing more consistency. With abundance of talented keeper,Germany aren't in the position to always include Ter Stegen either,unlike England for example who always had to include Hart somehow due to their lack of quality keeper.

And if there is anyone here who can called to be a bias,it's you Raz. I don't see how Froz3n can be biased to Courtois when he's United fan and when MSM a Bayern supporter,it's just logical he support Neuer in this debate as he's clearly STILL the better one

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Ter Stegen has only played in friendly matches at international level' date=' in all of these games he has never had the luxury of having a first choice German side in front of him.

[/quote']

Exactly those are the games that are great for a goalkeeper as you can show what you can, those are the games you can excel in and make a name for yourself.

Thank god he only plays in friendlies. How could anyone justify him playing in competitive matches.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

And if there is anyone here who can called to be a bias' date='it's you Raz. I don't see how Froz3n can be biased to Courtois when he's United fan and when MSM a Bayern supporter,it's just logical he support Neuer in this debate as he's clearly STILL the better one[/quote']

It doesn't even have anything to do with Bayern. Adler and Neuer were the top 2 keepers in Germany since 2008/9 and none of them was playing for us back then. Back then we had Butt in goal.

Ter Stegen is nowhere near the best German keeper, in fact, he doesn't even make the top 3. In Raz' world there is this big battle between Neuer and Ter Stegen going on when everybody realistically knows that that is nonsense.

Repeating myself but right now Ter Stegen is fighting Zieler for the third gk spot in the team. And he is making an absolute mess of that one and most people think he shouldn't be a part of the National team right now

Neuer is number 1 either way, plays for the best team in the world right now, just won the triple, played the WC and EC, always been there in the big games.

Then you have Adler who is a great keeper but who had some injury problems. Fought his way back, had a great season at Hamburg, is a clear number 2 now.

And then Löw wants to add a third young goalie (hence the Weidenfeller snubbing). He chose Zieler over Ter Stegen last year for the EURO; partly because ter Stegen had an absolute mare in a friendly before the EURO against Switzerland conceding 5.

And those 2 are at it again now fighting for that WC 2014 spot and yet again, ter Stegen is a calamity.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Leno enters that battle with Leverkusen playing CL again next season.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

It doesn't even have anything to do with Bayern. Adler and Neuer were the top 2 keepers in Germany since 2008/9 and none of them was playing for us back then. Back then we had Butt in goal.

Ter Stegen is nowhere near the best German keeper' date=' in fact, he doesn't even make the top 3. In Raz' world there is this big battle between Neuer and Ter Stegen going on when everybody realistically knows that that is nonsense.

Repeating myself but right now Ter Stegen is fighting Zieler for the third gk spot in the team. And he is making an absolute mess of that one and most people think he shouldn't be a part of the National team right now

Neuer is number 1 either way, plays for the best team in the world right now, just won the triple, played the WC and EC, always been there in the big games.

Then you have Adler who is a great keeper but who had some injury problems. Fought his way back, had a great season at Hamburg, is a clear number 2 now.

And then Löw wants to add a third young goalie (hence the Weidenfeller snubbing). He chose Zieler over Ter Stegen last year for the EURO; partly because ter Stegen had an absolute mare in a friendly before the EURO against Switzerland conceding 5.

And those 2 are at it again now fighting for that WC 2014 spot and yet again, ter Stegen is a calamity.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Leno enters that battle with Leverkusen playing CL again next season.[/quote']

Whilst I have been defending Ter Stegen I agree with nearly all this post, Neuer is the clear No 1 and has earned that with Adler a great No 2.

My point was and is Ter Stegen has great ability and has shown that at domestic level and is only 21, which for a GK is very young! It's unfortunate he never took his chance tonight but I believe he can really kick on to challenge Neuer down the line! Friendlies are not always the best place gain experiance, especially behind cobbled together outfield sides.

Personally I feel he should have went to U21 tournament, that would have allowed him to gain international tournament experiance at a level he is ready for and aided his development!

It was a hiding to nothing for him tonight, he could have performed heroics and it would make no difference he would still be no where near the starting XI! Unfortunately for him he made a horror error and its made things even tougher for him.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Whilst I have been defending Ter Stegen I agree with nearly all this post' date=' Neuer is the clear No 1 and has earned that with Adler a great No 2.

My point was and is Ter Stegen has great ability and has shown that at domestic level and is only 21, which for a GK is very young! It's unfortunate he never took his chance tonight but I believe he can really kick on to challenge Neuer down the line! Friendlies are not always the best place gain experiance, especially behind cobbled together outfield sides.

Personally I feel he should have went to U21 tournament, that would have allowed him to gain international tournament experiance at a level he is ready for and aided his development!

It was a hiding to nothing for him tonight, he could have performed heroics and it would make no difference he would still be no where near the starting XI! Unfortunately for him he made a horror error and its made things even tougher for him.[/quote']

I like ter Stegen mate and nobody is doubting his potential. But as every young player, he has fallen a bit into a hole. Bursted onto the scene in those last games 2 seasons ago when Gladbach just stayed in the league and then had a great season last year with Gladbach being 4th.

But this season he has been very average and so far he has never looked comfortable playing for the National Team and had a few blunders, be it against Switzerland where he had a big share in 2 goals, be it against Argentina where he conceded that 35m goal from di Maria (some say that goal wasn't saveable but from that distance the goalie always has his share; saved a pen in that game though, I know) or today.

A defense needs to be able to rely on the keeper, have trust in him. And the fact is that ter Stegen doesn't inspire that trust in the nat. team and therefore shouldn't be there at this point in time.

Let him focus on Gladbach again for the moment.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

No goalkeeper should be judged on their ability to play for the national team when they're 21. The pressure is so much higher than in any club game (at least for a nation as big as Germany and a club as small as Gladbach). Ter Stegen will move, will play some big club games and then, when he has more experience on the big stage, will start to replicate that form for the national side.

No way he should be being considered at the moment though given that he has very strong competition in Zieler and Leno. Raz is mental for suggesting he should be challenging Neuer, and I'm not Neuer's biggest fan.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

No goalkeeper should be judged on their ability to play for the national team when they're 21. The pressure is so much higher than in any club game (at least for a nation as big as Germany and a club as small as Gladbach). Ter Stegen will move' date=' will play some big club games and then, when he has more experience on the big stage, will start to replicate that form for the national side.

No way he should be being considered at the moment though given that he has very strong competition in Zieler and Leno. Raz is mental for suggesting he should be challenging Neuer, and I'm not Neuer's biggest fan.[/quote']

Agreed. neuer also make ridiculous mistakes. Rene let in 9 goals facing Bayern, Zieler got a red card at the game facing argentina... This is the first time i saw ter-stegen horrible.

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