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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread 2010/11 With the Bundesliga becoming stronger again and so more people might being interested in the Bundesliga I thought it would be a good idea to make a

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

he has rejected quite a few contract extensions (going back to last year) at Dortmund already so this isn't very plausible.

It's the same as Götze. He could earn more at City or the likes than he will at Bayern. Doesn't mean he goes there though.

He rejected a few contracts..the max salary was about 5 mil while he can easily won 7 or even 8 at Bayern.

Like I said..Gotze wanted to go home.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

He rejected a few contracts..the max salary was about 5 mil while he can easily won 7 or even 8 at Bayern.

Like I said..Gotze wanted to go home.

Of course money plays a role but so does the perspective to win titles and play for a better club.

If he wanted money only, he'd already be in England. (which might still happen as Dortmund doesn't want to sell to us)

Btw: Piszcek probably out longer than the 5 months reported at the beginning. Problems with his hip were bigger than originally thought so rehab might take longer.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Because overall Dortmund just isn't as big a club as Bayern' date=' Real, Barca, United etc.[/quote']

I think it is not by systemmatically supplying Bayern with their best assets that they will become so.. I think a good strattegy for Dortmund would be to grow directly against Bayern not with Bayern i. e. competing with them for the players, in a healthy way of course. How are you supposed to beat them consistently if you're just farming their future squads in the present? Dortmund should make money with Lewandoski asap but not with Bayern.

Dortmund sure has the potencial to become a giant in Europe and rival with Bayern in the medium term future, maybe 7-12 years.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Possibility 1: The "career plan"

Possibility 2: Idiotic agents

Possibility 3: Mor€ Mon€y ;)

I choose no.2 but change 'Idiotic' to 'opportunistic' (if this is the right form of the word), and then add no.3 to that but refer to agent pocket.

Agents are soulless cash whores, just ask Jorge Mendes or Pini Zahavi.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

I think it is not by systemmatically supplying Bayern with their best assets that they will become so.. I think a good strattegy for Dortmund would be to grow directly against Bayern not with Bayern i. e. competing with them for the players' date=' in a healthy way of course. How are you supposed to beat them consistently if you're just farming their future squads in the present? Dortmund should make money with Lewandoski asap but not with Bayern.

Dortmund sure has the potencial to become a giant in Europe and rival with Bayern in the medium term future, maybe 7-12 years.[/quote']

I can assure that this won't happen as the reason they almost went bust a few years ago was exactly that; trying to outbid and outspend us.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

I can assure that this won't happen as the reason they almost went bust a few years ago was exactly that; trying to outbid and outspend us.

Yes I know that, but what better way then to learn with History errors and not messing up this time around? I'm deffo not saying they should outbid Bayern everywhere (they shouldn't even try entering bid wars with them) I was against paying 9.5 million to Bremen for a CB for instance.

In the last years, they stole Hummels from Bayern and that wasn't too expensive I reckon... The strattegy must be buying smart and continue nurturing their excelent academy and avoid selling best assets al all costs to the one team Bayern.. This has been working very well so far two Championships and one CL final so far.

One thing is clear, they will go nowhere if the strattegy is to grow players for Bayern to use later.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

It's time again for the annual Bundesliga Elevens.

Top XI:

---------------------------- Weidenfeller ----------------------------

Lahm ------------- Boateng -------------- Dante -------------- Alaba

------------------ Schweinsteiger ----- Gündogan -------------------

Müller ------------------------- Reus ------------------------- Ribery

---------------------------- Lewandowski ---------------------------

Bench: Neuer, Piszczek, Subotic, Martinez, Robben, Götze, Kießling

Not really many surprises there I guess, basically a mixed XI of the CL finalists + Kießling. Was a close one between Kuba and Götze for the last bench spot in the end, decided for the latter as else I'd probably be accused of bitterness.

Flop XI:

------------------------------- Wiese -------------------------------

G. Sakai ----------- Felipe ---------------- Lukimya ------------ Fuchs

------------------- Xhaka ------------- Luiz Gustavo -----------------

Elia----------------------- van der Vaart --------------------- Sararer

----------------------------- Derdiyok -------------------------------

Bench: Unnerstall, Kirch, Santana, Jiracek, Okazaki, Perisic, Joselu

My favorite team, full of overpriced anti-footballers and overhyped useless tools.

Wiese is a must in this team, from German No 3/4 down to keeper who isn't even good enough for the reserve team of an almost relegated team in record time, haven't seen that before.

Really expected Sakai to break through this season, but couldn't even get past a Rüdiger who hasn't been all that special either. Felipe arrived with high hopes from Anderlecht, where he also impressed me in the 3 or 4 games I've seen, but considering he's been Hannover's third most expensive transfer of all times, he's been too disappointing and his injuries haven't helped either.

Lukimya arrived as the 2. Bundesliga's best defender, but what he's shown at Bremen has been horrible most of the time. Fuchs lost his place to Kolasinac towards the end of the season, IMO he's always been Schalke's main weakness in their defense, but his offensive qualities made up for that a bit. Take these away and all you have left is a terrible defender.

Had trouble finding any DMs that really disappointed, in the end went for Xhaka as he really hasn't shown much for his price tag, but I'd still be lenient with him looking at his age. Luiz Gustavo also hasn't really shown why he was once cost as much as Reus.

Van der Vaart was supposed to lead Hamburg back to glory, but couldn't even lead them to Europe, pretty big flop if you ask me. Elia flopped once again, even though it's more of a flop of the Bremen officials for even thinking he could not be a flop... And Sararer, the Turkish international - still have no idea how he managed to get into that team, didn't remember them as THIS bad - has been very, very disappointing this season. No idea how he's going to do at Stuttgart, but I doubt he'll have it easy to get past Harnik and Traore.

The flop striker was just as easy to find as the flop goalkeeper, as they're both coming from the same club. Derdiyok, once even considered better than Kießling by many, has found himself more often on the bench then on the pitch recently after some horrendous performances, and the latter, well, he's the Bundesliga top scorer.

Surprise XI:

------------------------------- Trapp -------------------------------

Carvajal ---------- van Buyten --------- Ginter ------------- Kolasinac

---------------------- Rode ----------- Makiadi ----------------------

Schmid ------------------------ Meier --------------------- de Bruyne

------------------------------ M. Kruse ------------------------------

Bench: Manninger, Diagne, Jung, Schwegler, Hunt, Traore, Parker

Again, doubt there's much to say here, mostly Frankfurt and Freiburg players, who both surprised and made it to Europe. Carvajal has played well enough to be bought back by Real Madrid, says it all I assume. Really didn't expect van Buyten to still be that good, and Kolasinac definitely earned himself a place in this team. De Bruyne and Hunt have been more or less Bremen's only ray of hope in their harmless offense, but Hunt again went back to his "normal" towards the end of the season after a really string start.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

It's time again for the annual Bundesliga Elevens.

Top XI:

---------------------------- Weidenfeller ----------------------------

Lahm ------------- Boateng -------------- Dante -------------- Alaba

------------------ Schweinsteiger ----- Gündogan -------------------

Müller ------------------------- Reus ------------------------- Ribery

---------------------------- Lewandowski ---------------------------

Bench: Neuer' date=' Piszczek, Subotic, Martinez, Robben, Götze, Kießling

Not really many surprises there I guess, basically a mixed XI of the CL finalists + Kießling. Was a close one between Kuba and Götze for the last bench spot in the end, decided for the latter as else I'd probably be accused of bitterness.

[b']Flop XI:[/b]

------------------------------- Wiese -------------------------------

G. Sakai ----------- Felipe ---------------- Lukimya ------------ Fuchs

------------------- Xhaka ------------- Luiz Gustavo -----------------

Elia----------------------- van der Vaart --------------------- Sararer

----------------------------- Derdiyok -------------------------------

Bench: Unnerstall, Kirch, Santana, Jiracek, Okazaki, Perisic, Joselu

My favorite team, full of overpriced anti-footballers and overhyped useless tools.

Wiese is a must in this team, from German No 3/4 down to keeper who isn't even good enough for the reserve team of an almost relegated team in record time, haven't seen that before.

Really expected Sakai to break through this season, but couldn't even get past a Rüdiger who hasn't been all that special either. Felipe arrived with high hopes from Anderlecht, where he also impressed me in the 3 or 4 games I've seen, but considering he's been Hannover's third most expensive transfer of all times, he's been too disappointing and his injuries haven't helped either.

Lukimya arrived as the 2. Bundesliga's best defender, but what he's shown at Bremen has been horrible most of the time. Fuchs lost his place to Kolasinac towards the end of the season, IMO he's always been Schalke's main weakness in their defense, but his offensive qualities made up for that a bit. Take these away and all you have left is a terrible defender.

Had trouble finding any DMs that really disappointed, in the end went for Xhaka as he really hasn't shown much for his price tag, but I'd still be lenient with him looking at his age. Luiz Gustavo also hasn't really shown why he was once cost as much as Reus.

Van der Vaart was supposed to lead Hamburg back to glory, but couldn't even lead them to Europe, pretty big flop if you ask me. Elia flopped once again, even though it's more of a flop of the Bremen officials for even thinking he could not be a flop... And Sararer, the Turkish international - still have no idea how he managed to get into that team, didn't remember them as THIS bad - has been very, very disappointing this season. No idea how he's going to do at Stuttgart, but I doubt he'll have it easy to get past Harnik and Traore.

The flop striker was just as easy to find as the flop goalkeeper, as they're both coming from the same club. Derdiyok, once even considered better than Kießling by many, has found himself more often on the bench then on the pitch recently after some horrendous performances, and the latter, well, he's the Bundesliga top scorer.

Surprise XI:

------------------------------- Trapp -------------------------------

Carvajal ---------- van Buyten --------- Ginter ------------- Kolasinac

---------------------- Rode ----------- Makiadi ----------------------

Schmid ------------------------ Meier --------------------- de Bruyne

------------------------------ M. Kruse ------------------------------

Bench: Manninger, Diagne, Jung, Schwegler, Hunt, Traore, Parker

Again, doubt there's much to say here, mostly Frankfurt and Freiburg players, who both surprised and made it to Europe. Carvajal has played well enough to be bought back by Real Madrid, says it all I assume. Really didn't expect van Buyten to still be that good, and Kolasinac definitely earned himself a place in this team. De Bruyne and Hunt have been more or less Bremen's only ray of hope in their harmless offense, but Hunt again went back to his "normal" towards the end of the season after a really string start.

Pretty much agree with you just that I'd change Roman with Rene,Boateng with Buyten and Muller with Gotze.Also replacing Robben with Kuba on the bench.

In the flop XI I'd replace Sakai with Fagner

In surprise XI,I Fully agree tbh..just that Id replace Buyten with Zambrano and maybe give Baba a spot in the tema.I really liked Baba.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Great effort, my comments:

Swap Boateng and Subotic positions in the best XI

Take out VdV from the Flop XI, I'm convinced if it wasn't for him their battle would be against relegation even with Son and Rudnevs.

Bring Kyotake to the Surprise XI - for me the surprise of the season, from unknwon in Cerezo Osaka to starter for Japan in just a few months. (PS: Dortmund watch out for this one.......)

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

It's time again for the annual Bundesliga Elevens.

Top XI:

---------------------------- Weidenfeller ----------------------------

Lahm ------------- Boateng -------------- Dante -------------- Alaba

------------------ Schweinsteiger ----- Gündogan -------------------

Müller ------------------------- Reus ------------------------- Ribery

---------------------------- Lewandowski ---------------------------

Bench: Neuer' date=' Piszczek, Subotic, Martinez, Robben, Götze, Kießling

Not really many surprises there I guess, basically a mixed XI of the CL finalists + Kießling. Was a close one between Kuba and Götze for the last bench spot in the end, decided for the latter as else I'd probably be accused of bitterness.

[b']Flop XI:[/b]

------------------------------- Wiese -------------------------------

G. Sakai ----------- Felipe ---------------- Lukimya ------------ Fuchs

------------------- Xhaka ------------- Luiz Gustavo -----------------

Elia----------------------- van der Vaart --------------------- Sararer

----------------------------- Derdiyok -------------------------------

Bench: Unnerstall, Kirch, Santana, Jiracek, Okazaki, Perisic, Joselu

My favorite team, full of overpriced anti-footballers and overhyped useless tools.

Wiese is a must in this team, from German No 3/4 down to keeper who isn't even good enough for the reserve team of an almost relegated team in record time, haven't seen that before.

Really expected Sakai to break through this season, but couldn't even get past a Rüdiger who hasn't been all that special either. Felipe arrived with high hopes from Anderlecht, where he also impressed me in the 3 or 4 games I've seen, but considering he's been Hannover's third most expensive transfer of all times, he's been too disappointing and his injuries haven't helped either.

Lukimya arrived as the 2. Bundesliga's best defender, but what he's shown at Bremen has been horrible most of the time. Fuchs lost his place to Kolasinac towards the end of the season, IMO he's always been Schalke's main weakness in their defense, but his offensive qualities made up for that a bit. Take these away and all you have left is a terrible defender.

Had trouble finding any DMs that really disappointed, in the end went for Xhaka as he really hasn't shown much for his price tag, but I'd still be lenient with him looking at his age. Luiz Gustavo also hasn't really shown why he was once cost as much as Reus.

Van der Vaart was supposed to lead Hamburg back to glory, but couldn't even lead them to Europe, pretty big flop if you ask me. Elia flopped once again, even though it's more of a flop of the Bremen officials for even thinking he could not be a flop... And Sararer, the Turkish international - still have no idea how he managed to get into that team, didn't remember them as THIS bad - has been very, very disappointing this season. No idea how he's going to do at Stuttgart, but I doubt he'll have it easy to get past Harnik and Traore.

The flop striker was just as easy to find as the flop goalkeeper, as they're both coming from the same club. Derdiyok, once even considered better than Kießling by many, has found himself more often on the bench then on the pitch recently after some horrendous performances, and the latter, well, he's the Bundesliga top scorer.

Surprise XI:

------------------------------- Trapp -------------------------------

Carvajal ---------- van Buyten --------- Ginter ------------- Kolasinac

---------------------- Rode ----------- Makiadi ----------------------

Schmid ------------------------ Meier --------------------- de Bruyne

------------------------------ M. Kruse ------------------------------

Bench: Manninger, Diagne, Jung, Schwegler, Hunt, Traore, Parker

Again, doubt there's much to say here, mostly Frankfurt and Freiburg players, who both surprised and made it to Europe. Carvajal has played well enough to be bought back by Real Madrid, says it all I assume. Really didn't expect van Buyten to still be that good, and Kolasinac definitely earned himself a place in this team. De Bruyne and Hunt have been more or less Bremen's only ray of hope in their harmless offense, but Hunt again went back to his "normal" towards the end of the season after a really string start.

This is your personal opinion, yes? Not from website or newspaper?

Top XI:

Weidenfeller shouldn't be there. Should be either Adler (due to great performance for an average team) or Neuer (due to all kinds of records). Don't get me wrong, Weidenfeller had a good season but went from conceding 22 goals in 10/11 and 25 goals in 11/12 to 42 conceded goals this season. Of course the defense was worse as well but conceding almost 20 goals more compared to the 2 seasons prior to that should not secure a goalkeeper a spot in the Top XI. Leaving Adler out completely is wrong imo.

Dante and Lahm are no-brainers though I wouldn't make the backline Bayern only (though there isn't anybody there who doesn't deserve it).

I'd put Carvajal in somewhere, been phenomenal. Not quite sure which CB I'd get ahead of Boateng. Never rated Jerome that much but he has improved this season. Maybe even go for a lesser known name such as Per Nilsson from Nürnberg only to spice it up a bit. Nürnberg only conceded 5 goals more than Dortmund and he was their top scorer being a CB scoring 6 goals.

Midfield is fine. Javi Martinez was immense this season. Haven't lost a league game with him and only conceded 2 goals from open play with him playing that CDM.

Att mid is fine.

I'd put Kießling in there ahead of Lewandowski. Kießling has been very very good for a while now and Lewa's best performances came in CL imo. Kießling been involved in every second goal Leverkusen scored.

Flop XI:

Defense is fine. Lukimya is so so bad.

No way should Luiz Gustavo be in there. Luiz Gustavo has been very good at the start of the season but he got injured and with JM there obv less playing time. Nowhere near a flop though. Solid rotation defensive midfielder.

Xhaka been disappointing, yes.

Van der Vaart shouldn't be in there. 9 assists (most) and 5 goals (3rd-most) for Hamburg. They finished 15th last season and now 7th. He tends to disappear in some games though he wasn't a flop. They'd be much worse without him.

Also don't agree with the bench. Kirch never played and was never going to play so not really a flop. Might as well put Owomoyela in there and Contento because they never play either.

Also, Schieber has to make that team. So far he has been an absolute waste of money and space in your team.

Surpise XI:

Fine mostly. Good call on Manninger. Kiyotake should definitely be there as Arroto said.

And Huszti as well. With him out Hannover went downwards.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

This is your personal opinion' date=' yes? Not from website or newspaper?[/quote']

Yes it is. If you had been around for more than a few months then you would know that I've regularly made these teams in every summer & winter break.

Top XI:

Weidenfeller shouldn't be there. Should be either Adler (due to great performance for an average team) or Neuer (due to all kinds of records). Don't get me wrong' date=' Weidenfeller had a good season but went from conceding 22 goals in 10/11 and 25 goals in 11/12 to 42 conceded goals this season. Of course the defense was worse as well but conceding almost 20 goals more compared to the 2 seasons prior to that should not secure a goalkeeper a spot in the Top XI. Leaving Adler out completely is wrong imo.[/quote']

You're seeing things far too one-dimensional here. Neuer has improved from last season because he conceded less and Weidenfeller is worse than last season because he conceded more. Unfortunately it's not that clear IMO.

And Adler has been back to "normal" in the second half of the season, think he's been a tad overhyped recently. And since I have included the CL in my ratings, there has been no way past either Weidenfeller who has led Dortmund to the final, or Neuer, who has kept Bayern in the final.

Dante and Lahm are no-brainers though I wouldn't make the backline Bayern only (though there isn't anybody there who doesn't deserve it).

I'd put Carvajal in somewhere' date=' been phenomenal. Not quite sure which CB I'd get ahead of Boateng. Never rated Jerome that much but he has improved this season. Maybe even go for a lesser known name such as Per Nilsson from Nürnberg only to spice it up a bit. Nürnberg only conceded 5 goals more than Dortmund and he was their top scorer being a CB scoring 6 goals. [/quote']

Carvajal has only played as RB, and so has Lahm. And you don't really want to suggest that the Spaniard has been even close to Lahm's performances this year. And for the 'shocks', there's still the surprise XI. And Nilsson hasn't even made that one.

Midfield is fine. Javi Martinez was immense this season. Haven't lost a league game with him and only conceded 2 goals from open play with him playing that CDM.

He's been immense mainly in the second half of the season' date=' especially in the CL. His start in Germany has been stuttering, hence the place on the bench

Att mid is fine.

I'd put Kießling in there ahead of Lewandowski. Kießling has been very very good for a while now and Lewa's best performances came in CL imo. Kießling been involved in every second goal Leverkusen scored.

As I said, CL performances are also included, and that gave Lewandowski the edge over Kießling.

Flop XI:

Defense is fine. Lukimya is so so bad.

No way should Luiz Gustavo be in there. Luiz Gustavo has been very good at the start of the season but he got injured and with JM there obv less playing time. Nowhere near a flop though. Solid rotation defensive midfielder.

Xhaka been disappointing' date=' yes.[/quote']

As I said, been difficult to find a DM that really disappointed massively. Been thinking about Kvist, but then again I thought he wasn't all that bad in the games I've seen and his kicker ratings have been rather decent as well. Don't really know why he seems to be totally out of favour atm. Been thinking about Bargfrede and Schmiedebach as well who couldn't quite reproduce their form from last season. And as I said, name me someone who'd be a no-brainer to be put there, I couldn't think of one.

Van der Vaart shouldn't be in there. 9 assists (most) and 5 goals (3rd-most) for Hamburg. They finished 15th last season and now 7th. He tends to disappear in some games though he wasn't a flop. They'd be much worse without him.

Looking at his price tag' date=' and the hopes that were put in him, then yes, I think disappearing from some games (and it has been more than "just" some games in my opinion) makes him a flop.

Also don't agree with the bench. Kirch never played and was never going to play so not really a flop. Might as well put Owomoyela in there and Contento because they never play either.

Also, Schieber has to make that team. So far he has been an absolute waste of money and space in your team.

I agree that it's been harsh to put Kirch in the Flop squad, but I've put him there as some kind of an example of Dortmund's recent 'bench' transfers, which also include Schieber. When in the past Dortmund managed to bring in some really decent players for small money and to help improving the depth and even the first team (Kagawa, Piszczek, and then guys like Santana or Toni da Silva to a certain extent), but Kirch wasn't even trusted when it was basically impossible to bring on Piszczek.

Surpise XI:

Fine mostly. Good call on Manninger. Kiyotake should definitely be there as Arroto said.

And Huszti as well. With him out Hannover went downwards.

Yeah, Kiyotake totally slipped my mind, could certainly replace Hunt with him.

Huszti has been really decent as well, but in the end, I thought de Bruyne and Traore were a bit ahead of him in his position.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Breaking News:

Dortmund chairman Watzke said to BILD: "Robert Lewandowski will definitely NOT move to Bayern Munich in 2013. This is final. We have told this Robert and his agents."

Sooo, Lewa responded to that on Polish TV:

"The BVB president said that? I don't know about that. I don't believe that this is a definite decision. I think this is still going to change."

"Just recently that all looked differently and they have said something else. Those things they have said to me back then still count for me. And not the things in the media. A promise is a very important thing and has to be respected."

Very very interesting to see what is going on at Dortmund. :D

It has been claimed repeatedly now by Lewa and his agents that Dortmund said something completely different in private to them a while ago and now go back on their word.

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Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Sooo' date=' Lewa responded to that on Polish TV:

"The BVB president said that? I don't know about that. I don't believe that this is a definite decision. I think this is still going to change."

"Just recently that all looked differently and they have said something else. Those things they have said to me back then still count for me. And not the things in the media. A promise is a very important thing and has to be respected."

Very very interesting to see what is going on at Dortmund. :D

It has been claimed repeatedly now by Lewa and his agents that Dortmund said something completely different in private to them a while ago and now go back on their word.[/quote']

Whoever takes it as face value needs there head examining.

Dortmund are not silly and this sounds to me more like a negotiating tactic more than anything warning Bayern to either put up the cash or be "threatened" with missing out on him.

It also gives an indication to other clubs to make bids which in turn makes a bidding war and so on and so on...

At the end of the day no business really should even consider the possibility of missing out on 20-25M sale of an asset rather than lose it for nothing, it makes absolutely zero business sense to miss out on such a bulk sum nor to keep a clearly unhappy and possibly de-motivated player.

I can still see it happening but these games will be played inbetween.

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