Jump to content

Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread


timesle
 Share

Recommended Posts

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

I don't understand though' date=' why spoil something which isn't broken? He's been doing well for a few seasons, this season Mandžukić has shone, you have Muller whose equally adapt and now Lewandowski?

Why sell Gomez?[/quote']

The way to maintain success is through consistent improvements and changes keeping things fresh IMO, Lewandowski is Hungary and by buying off Dortmund who are there biggest rivals for the Bundesliga crown and with the form he's been in it would be a mistake not to try and get him into the side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

The way to maintain success is through consistent improvements and changes keeping things fresh IMO' date=' Lewandowski is Hungary and by buying off Dortmund who are there biggest rivals for the Bundesliga crown and with the form he's been in it would be a mistake not to try and get him into the side.[/quote']

Completely agree - it is the Sir Alex Ferguson way.

He wasnt afraid to let Stam go, or Beckham, Van Nistelrooy or Ronaldo. You look over the years and he has re-built Man Utd over and over (with some ever presents of course). - Bayern look like they are using the Man Utd model and you cant really argue against it to be fair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

I don't understand though' date=' why spoil something which isn't broken? He's been doing well for a few seasons, this season Mandžukić has shone, you have Muller whose equally adapt and now Lewandowski?

Why sell Gomez?[/quote']

Well, Gomez doesn't fit Pep's style. This makes sense as Gomez isn't a technically gifted passer. However, he is one of the (if not the) most ruthless and efficient finishers in the world. He doesn't need 60 touches a game, the other day he had 3 goals against Wolfsburg in the cup of 13 touches or so. Against Barcelona he only had 12 touches in 70 minutes. Still scored his goal. Back at the Euro in the game against Holland I remember him scoring 2 goals in the first half an hour off 12 touches.

He is a finisher. He scores in the league every 76 minutes. One player in Europe needs less time for a goal and that is Messi.

But yes, everybody knows which kind of players Pep likes, those who can pass the ball back and forth endlessly (and sometimes aimlessly). Gomez can't do that.

Nevertheless, it'd be stupid to sell him as you lose one tactical option. Mandzukic is probably the best defensive striker there is in Europe right now. His pressing against the ball, not letting the defenders and defensive midfielders playing passes or getting into the game is almost second to none. He is great in the air and at holding the ball up.

Then you have Gomez, somebody who doesn't need to be connected to the game. Play him that one through ball and he is gonna score for you. He is not gonna run 13km a game and he isn't gonna play 50 passes, he "just" scores goals.

Lewandowski is kind of a mix of the 2. He is not as strong defensively although he is also great at holding the ball up. He is not as great a finisher as Gomez (I know he was great last night but we are talking in general). He is very very good at both without being the best, he is probably the most complete striker of the 3.

And if that is not enough, we can also play the false 9 with Götze or Shaqiri up front.

So we actually have something Barca never had. Options. A Plan B, a Plan C etc. Depending on who your opponent is you can pick the best suited striker.

So quite frankly, it would be dumb to voluntarily give that up but I fear Pep will do so anyway :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

I don't understand though' date=' why spoil something which isn't broken? He's been doing well for a few seasons, this season Mandžukić has shone, you have Muller whose equally adapt and now Lewandowski?

Why sell Gomez?[/quote']

Lewandowski and Mandzukic are way better in contributing defenselivy, and playing along with others. Lewandowski's very useful in receiving+passing the ball very often, including yesterday. Gómez is lesser in such things. (Müller is used for a different position or two, but could be seen as extra cover when and if needed.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

None of the strikers mentioned are really comparable to Messi IMO. All are excellent finishers but none get as involved as the Argentine in the build up deeper in the pitch.

I think a false 9 system or rotating front 3 system could really suit Bayern with Gotze and would appeal to Pep. Something like:

Neuer

Lahm - Dante - Badstuber - Alaba

Martinez

Kroos - Schweinsteiger

Gotze

Muller -------------------- Ribery

where the attackers can change roles freely as they're all adept across the board. Martinez plays the Busquets role of sitting permanently allowing the full backs to get up and support and Kroos and Schweiny dominate the possession.

EDIT: Oh, and that team is sickeningly good, especially when you consider the players not included.

If Bayern were to buy a striker, I'd assume it'd be someone who could mimic Messi's role at Barca. Suarez perhaps...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

None of the strikers mentioned are really comparable to Messi IMO. All are excellent finishers but none get as involved as the Argentine in the build up deeper in the pitch.

I think a false 9 system or rotating front 3 system could really suit Bayern with Gotze and would appeal to Pep. Something like:

Neuer

Lahm - Dante - Badstuber - Alaba

Martinez

Kroos - Schweinsteiger

Gotze

Muller -------------------- Ribery

where the attackers can change roles freely as they're all adept across the board. Martinez plays the Busquets role of sitting permanently allowing the full backs to get up and support and Kroos and Schweiny dominate the possession.

EDIT: Oh' date=' and that team is sickeningly good, especially when you consider the players not included.

If Bayern were to buy a striker, I'd assume it'd be someone who could mimic Messi's role at Barca. Suarez perhaps...[/quote']

That line-up makes sense although you could even make a case for the more technically gifted Shaqiri to play ahead of Müller. I am not sold on Pep only playing the false 9.

I think Pep is a fantastic manager and from how he conducts himself in interviews etc. he seems to be a very smart and humble person too. He will see what is good and what is bad and I don't think he will be stubborn and only play his system with the false 9 all the time. He will adapt and play a few styles including playing an actual striker.

Do you think Ribery is able to play the false 9 ?

Sure, no different to what he is playing right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

None of the strikers mentioned are really comparable to Messi IMO. All are excellent finishers but none get as involved as the Argentine in the build up deeper in the pitch.

I think a false 9 system or rotating front 3 system could really suit Bayern with Gotze and would appeal to Pep. Something like:

Neuer

Lahm - Dante - Badstuber - Alaba

Martinez

Kroos - Schweinsteiger

Gotze

Muller -------------------- Ribery

where the attackers can change roles freely as they're all adept across the board. Martinez plays the Busquets role of sitting permanently allowing the full backs to get up and support and Kroos and Schweiny dominate the possession.

EDIT: Oh' date=' and that team is sickeningly good, especially when you consider the players not included.

If Bayern were to buy a striker, I'd assume it'd be someone who could mimic Messi's role at Barca. Suarez perhaps...[/quote']

Perhaps that will be formation in Munchen next season with Pep. Just dont know what will be with two Mario strikers , Robben ? all three players play well this season, some have injuries but that is allright. Dont think so they will be happy with rotation status in club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Another thing why the formation Stu posted is unlikely is that we lack depth in midfield then.

If Martinez, Schweinsteiger, Kroos und Götze all play, you have no back-up. There is Luiz Gustavo and partly Shaqiri (although he is more a winger) who call a central midfield position their home. That was it then.

But then we have Mandzu, Lewa, Gomez, Robben, Müller (or Shaqiri) on the bench, all cannot play that central midfield position, all play attacking midfield or attack. Which means it is likely that Kroos or Götze will be benched and a proper striker will be used. More substitute options off the bench.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Another thing why the formation Stu posted is unlikely is that we lack depth in midfield then.

If Martinez' date=' Schweinsteiger, Kroos und Götze all play, you have no back-up. There is Luiz Gustavo and partly Shaqiri (although he is more a winger) who call a central midfield position their home. That was it then.

But then we have Mandzu, Lewa, Gomez, Robben, Müller (or Shaqiri) on the bench, all cannot play that central midfield position, all play attacking midfield or attack. Which means it is likely that Kroos or Götze will be benched and a proper striker will be used. More substitute options off the bench.[/quote']

You are right but I think Pep will need to sold some of these players Mario Mandzukic, Mario Gomez, Arjen Robben. There are Luiz Gustavo on mid, and I dont agree with you that Kroos and Gotze will be rotated no sence here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Another thing why the formation Stu posted is unlikely is that we lack depth in midfield then.

If Martinez' date=' Schweinsteiger, Kroos und Götze all play, you have no back-up. There is Luiz Gustavo and partly Shaqiri (although he is more a winger) who call a central midfield position their home. That was it then.

But then we have Mandzu, Lewa, Gomez, Robben, Müller (or Shaqiri) on the bench, all cannot play that central midfield position, all play attacking midfield or attack. Which means it is likely that Kroos or Götze will be benched and a proper striker will be used. More substitute options off the bench.[/quote']

Not a single chance for Gotze or Kroos to be benched.2 of your best players,be serious.This summer gonna be interesting

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

You are right but I think Pep will need to sold some of these players Mario Mandzukic' date=' Mario Gomez, Arjen Robben. There are Luiz Gustavo on mid, and I dont agree with you that Kroos and Gotze will be rotated no sence here.[/quote']

Mandzukic won't be sold. We only just got him and he has been spectacular.

Not a single chance for Gotze or Kroos to be benched.2 of your best players' date='be serious.This summer gonna be interesting[/quote']

We have a lot of equally good players. Why do you think we are so successful? Because Heynckes rotated and rotated. Robben, Gomez, Kroos, Müller, Shaqiri, Mandzukic, Pizarro, all would play in most other teams, all sat on the bench.

You can no longer have 11 equally good people, you need to have 18-20 equally good players.

Hardly anybody has a first team guarantee. Neuer has one, Lahm has one, Schweinsteiger has one, Ribery has one. Dante maybe. That's less than half the squad, the other half is up for grabs.

Van Buyten hasn't played in ages but suddenly Badstuber got injured and now van Buyten has been playing ahead of Boateng in the games against Juventus.

Robben sat on the bench at the start of the year, came out and said he wants to play every game etc. and again Heynckes rotated, kept him fresh, hungry and happy. What does he do? Scores the winning goal against Dortmund in the cup and has a spectacular game against Barcelona.

Gomez similar, Heynckes has been rotating Mandzukic and Gomez all year. Mandzukic hasn't played a single minute in the last 5 Bundesliga games. Last Bundesliga game he played was 9th of March against Düsseldorf. 8 weeks without a single game minute in the Bundesliga for Mandzukic.

Now you two are telling me that Kroos and Götze will have a starting XI guarantee. They won't. Some games Kroos will play, some games Götze will play, some games they will play together and somebody else sits on the bench.

Rotation and uncertainty is the key. The moment the majority of your squad gets a first team guarantee, you are hurting yourself. You are hurting the player who gets it as he knows subconsciously that he can play a bit worse and still play the next games and you hurting the guy on the bench who knows he can't get in, no matter how good he is at practice and when subbed on.

This is what makes Bayern so strong this season. Our depth and the hunger and determination of every player. This was also the thing we were lacking last season. Once you got past the first XI, the quality of players quickly decreased. Not the case this year and this is the recipe to success. We don't have First XI but a First XVIII (18).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Rotation and uncertainty is the key. The moment the majority of your squad gets a first team guarantee' date=' you are hurting yourself. You are hurting the player who gets it as he knows subconsciously that he can play a bit worse and still play the next games and you hurting the guy on the bench who knows he can't get in, no matter how good he is at practice and when subbed on.

This is what makes Bayern so strong this season. Our depth and the hunger and determination of every player. This was also the thing we were lacking last season. Once you got past the first XI, the quality of players quickly decreased. Not the case this year and this is the recipe to success. We don't have First XI but a First XVIII (18).[/quote']

Perfectly put, but this is Bayern this season, I personally don't remember Guardiola as the rotation manager :o

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

You may have a point but we can only judge that next season.

I am confident that there will still be rotation. Pep isn't stupid, he sees what works. Just like players develop and learn, managers (some :D) develop and learn. Pep has more than half a year time to make up his mind on all things and watch players. This is already a massive advantage tbh.

Most managers get signed first and then have to check out the team and watch video etc.

Pep already does all that now, he'd be watching all the games and making notes, maybe even has his analysts, who are also going to come to Bayern supposedly, working on stuff.

He won't know the players personally when he arrives but he already knows their style and strengths and weaknesses. This is a good thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Just thought I let you guys know the latest Lewandowski report.

It comes from BILD so as always, tread carefully and don't everything for 100% true.

They are saying that Lewandowski has signed 2 contracts last year with Bayern already.

One valid from 2013 onwards (in case Dortmund accepts a Bayern offer) and one from 2014 onwards (in case they don't and let his contract expire).

Both are supposedly 4-year contracts.

Dortmund is obviously between a rock and a hard place right now as they can't really sell him to Bayern as supporters will be furious but letting such a player go for free next season is not ideal either.

Lewandowski's agents have also been on the news today. One said to Polish TV: "I can assure you that Lewandowski plays for an ever bigger club next season. However, before we release official information I want the clubs to agree on it first."

The other one said: "We have reached an agreement with a club a long time ago. Robert wants to move this season."

Dortmund has also proposed yet another contract extension for 7m gross this year (so about 5m net) which is on par with what Reus and Götze would earn but still far off what Bayern or an EPL club can offer. Lewandowski and his agents rejected the offer though supposedly.

They refer to an oral agreement with Dortmund who are supposed to have told them that he can leave if a club submitted a 25m Euro bid until the 15th of May. Bayern either has done so already or will supposedly do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

I agree that there will be rotations, so many quality players in midfield.

Ribery - Kroos/Götze - Muller/Robben

Schweinsteiger - Martinez

While I'm here, what do you think of Luiz Gustavo? What could be his potential rating, 91? If he stays at Bayern probably no more than 90, because he won't play much, but what if he moves? I am thinking to sell him, but not sure.

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

There is no end to the Lewandowski saga. :D

As mentioned last night, Lewa's agents went on TV and said he has signed a contract with an even bigger team than Dortmund. SportBild reported he signed 2 contracts with Bayern.

What also happened last night is that several Dortmund locals have reported on FB that they have seen Mario Gomez in a Dortmund hospital; the same hospital the Borussia Dortmund doctor works at. So some people were hinting at a check-up and a possible Lewa swap deal.

Gomez' agent denied that Gomez was in Dortmund yesterday though.

I don't believe this either.

Bayern also released a statement on their homepage today saying that contrary to agents' and media report they have not signed a contract with Robert Lewandowski.

It is all a bit crazy atm.

There is another rumour floating around Dortmund and that is that Hummels and Subotic are having some problems with each other; something I have mentioned before.

What I have heard from Dortmund locals is that Subotic had a little thing going on with Hummels' girlfriend and that the 2 had an altercation. Again, an outrageous rumour which probably isn't true albeit it wouldn't be a first (hello John Terry).

Nevertheless, it is all a bit crazy right now here so take all those media reports with a BIG grain of salt.

Another thing Sky Sport News HD reported today is that Real Madrid is supposed to be interested in Jupp Heynckes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

Just thought I let you guys know the latest Lewandowski report.

It comes from BILD so as always' date=' tread carefully and don't everything for 100% true.

They are saying that Lewandowski has signed 2 contracts [b']last year[/b] with Bayern already.

One valid from 2013 onwards (in case Dortmund accepts a Bayern offer) and one from 2014 onwards (in case they don't and let his contract expire).

Both are supposedly 4-year contracts.

Dortmund is obviously between a rock and a hard place right now as they can't really sell him to Bayern as supporters will be furious but letting such a player go for free next season is not ideal either.

Lewandowski's agents have also been on the news today. One said to Polish TV: "I can assure you that Lewandowski plays for an ever bigger club next season. However, before we release official information I want the clubs to agree on it first."

The other one said: "We have reached an agreement with a club a long time ago. Robert wants to move this season."

Dortmund has also proposed yet another contract extension for 7m gross this year (so about 5m net) which is on par with what Reus and Götze would earn but still far off what Bayern or an EPL club can offer. Lewandowski and his agents rejected the offer though supposedly.

They refer to an oral agreement with Dortmund who are supposed to have told them that he can leave if a club submitted a 25m Euro bid until the 15th of May. Bayern either has done so already or will supposedly do so.

Of course they will stay on the bench in some games.They need a rest aswell

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

All depends on deals for Bayern but personally I dont agree with that one Kroos or Gotze will be rotated, okey for Thomas Muller and Robben they can be rotated, but best young player on middle Kroos with Gun to be in rotation with newcomer Mario Gotze seems ridiculous. For me sure place in first 11 will have: Neuer- Lahm-Dante-Boateng-Alaba- Javi- Bastian-Kroos- Muller-Gotze-Ribery- Gomez.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

All depends on deals for Bayern but personally I dont agree with that one Kroos or Gotze will be rotated' date=' okey for Thomas Muller and Robben they can be rotated, but best young player on middle Kroos with Gun to be in rotation with newcomer Mario Gotze seems ridiculous. For me sure place in first 11 will have: Neuer- Lahm-Dante-Boateng-Alaba- Javi- Bastian-Kroos- Muller-Gotze-Ribery- Gomez.[/quote']

Bayern are allowed to have 12 players in there team, think they are good enough already without needing to field an extra player than the opposition :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Official Bundesliga Discussion Thread

All depends on deals for Bayern but personally I dont agree with that one Kroos or Gotze will be rotated' date=' okey for Thomas Muller and Robben they can be rotated, but best young player on middle Kroos with Gun to be in rotation with newcomer Mario Gotze seems ridiculous. For me sure place in first 11 will have: Neuer- Lahm-Dante-Boateng-Alaba- Javi- Bastian-Kroos- Muller-Gotze-Ribery- Gomez.[/quote']
Bayern are allowed to have 12 players in there team' date=' think they are good enough already without needing to field an extra player than the opposition :P[/quote']

Lol.

We will see Alan. I think they will be rotated. We will be smarter this time next year.

All I can say is that I very much doubt half the people you mentioned will have a safe and sure place in the Starting XI (one doesn't anyway as Ray pointed out :D)

But noone knows how Pep handles things. Will be interesting and exciting to see what team we line-up on the pitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...