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Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul


Stuart H
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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

I have changed the setting so that 1 rep power point is gained for every 250 rep points obtained.

I don't see how this helps the situation at all :o . I'd of thought it'd have the opposite effect. Now it'll be even harder for new members to play catch up as they get less rep points on average per rep and now need even more points to increase their rep power. This change just makes the gap even larger and favours members who have been repper prior to the change today.

Imho, either anon neg rep needs to be bought back or the whole system scrapped.

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

The rep system was' date=' and is, moderated. It was a nightmare to moderate though when neg rep was allowed. Anyone who received it complained, and in most cases it was hard to justify letting it stand as most people used it out of spite. [b']I think it would work better on a forum populated by a more mature userbase[/b]. No offense meant to any of our younger members; some of the best forumers I have know have been under 15.

I have changed the setting so that 1 rep power point is gained for every 250 rep points obtained.

Re. The bolded part. I've have been on many forums and this is by far the most mature that i've come across if you take into account its genre. This is a forum for:

1. An online Game

2. Football.

Both of these are things which attract the more stupid* members of society and interest many an internet troll/spammer.

The general level of posting is much more civilised, helpful and intelligent than most forums that on paper, should really be better.

*in terms of actions, rather than intellect

Is this change a temporary or permanent one?

250 seems far too much for the newer members who deserve a respectable level of rep. I myself am not bothered about my rep but i still find myself judging posts slightly based on rep if the rep level is very low. (ie 0/1)

Advice is much easier to trust coming form someone with 8 rep than it is from a person with 3 rep, but this is the difference between the new system and the old.

I would suggest a layered system, even it is very simple e.g:

0-4 rep = 100pts

5-8 rep = 175

8+ rep = 250

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

Re. The bolded part. I've have been on many forums and this is by far the most mature that i've come across if you take into account its genre. This is a forum for:

1. An online Game

2. Football.

Both of these are things which attract the more stupid* members of society and interest many an internet troll/spammer.

The general level of posting is much more civilised' date=' helpful and intelligent than most forums that on paper, should really be better.

*in terms of actions, rather than intellect

Is this change a temporary or permanent one?

250 seems far too much for the newer members who deserve a respectable level of rep. I myself am not bothered about my rep but i still find myself judging posts slightly based on rep if the rep level is very low. (ie 0/1)

Advice is much easier to trust coming form someone with 8 rep than it is from a person with 3 rep, but this is the difference between the new system and the old.

I would suggest a layered system, even it is very simple e.g:

0-4 rep = 100pts

5-8 rep = 175

8+ rep = 250[/quote']

Yeah Mate your spot on .. I Totally agree it a weird system to change it too..but oh well it might be of a benefit to people and the forum eventually. :rolleyes:

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

How about:

1) Allowing members to decide what portion of their rep to give? Right now someone of say Rep 50 can give 50 or nothing. This is a huge difference! Shouldn't there be the ability to give something in between? By letting the member choose how many points to allocate it would allow then to reward posts accordingly, rather than th e'all or nothing' system it is now.

2) We could grade the Rep system so that the points needed to move between levels becomes more the higher you get in Rep. So for example 50 points are needed to move between levels 1-5, 100 points needed for levels 6-10, 150 for 11-15, and so on?

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

How about:

1) Allowing members to decide what portion of their rep to give? Right now someone of say Rep 50 can give 50 or nothing. This is a huge difference! Shouldn't there be the ability to give something in between? By letting the member choose how many points to allocate it would allow then to reward posts accordingly' date=' rather than th e'all or nothing' system it is now.

2) We could grade the Rep system so that the points needed to move between levels becomes more the higher you get in Rep. So for example 50 points are needed to move between levels 1-5, 100 points needed for levels 6-10, 150 for 11-15, and so on?[/quote']

I think this would be awkward to put into practice though. As Teb said it's third party software and would probably require add ons which will be more bother than good. I think we should just scrap the whole thing tbh :P

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

How about:

1) Allowing members to decide what portion of their rep to give? Right now someone of say Rep 50 can give 50 or nothing. This is a huge difference! Shouldn't there be the ability to give something in between? By letting the member choose how many points to allocate it would allow then to reward posts accordingly' date=' rather than th e'all or nothing' system it is now.

2) We could grade the Rep system so that the points needed to move between levels becomes more the higher you get in Rep. So for example 50 points are needed to move between levels 1-5, 100 points needed for levels 6-10, 150 for 11-15, and so on?[/quote']

Both are good suggestions, I'd say.

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

The rep system was' date=' and is, moderated. It was a nightmare to moderate though when neg rep was allowed. Anyone who received it complained, and in most cases it was hard to justify letting it stand as most people used it out of spite. I think it would work better on a forum populated by a more mature userbase. No offense meant to any of our younger members; some of the best forumers I have know have been under 15.

I have changed the setting so that 1 rep power point is gained for every 250 rep points obtained.[/quote']

I don't see how this helps the situation at all :o . I'd of thought it'd have the opposite effect. Now it'll be even harder for new members to play catch up as they get less rep points on average per rep and now need even more points to increase their rep power. This change just makes the gap even larger and favours members who have been repper prior to the change today.

Imho' date=' either anon neg rep needs to be bought back or the whole system scrapped.[/quote']

To be fair i agree with Ben. Now that the rep point bar has been risen, it will be even harder for newer members to catch up after today. The gap will eventually become immense again just like it was before. (Insider 101 - New Guy 0)

Neg rep dont seem a bad option to me. I was never here when it was around before and neither were many other people. Alot of people have also moved on and tbh i think the shall i say "newer" and of course the previous members should be given another shot at neg rep.

The new change doesnt seem to have done much in my eyes.

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

Thanks teb :)

Good short term solution to stop the rep situation getting wildly out of hand.

However, is it still possible to consider the ideas myself and others have mentioned to improve the system? If the forum keeps going at this pace and continues to thrive then it won't be too long before people have rep of 250 and we need to do it all over again :P

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

I do agree with the posts about this system making it harder for new members to catch up. And it doesn't affect the higher repped members because their rep powers are still very impressive figures.

If Teb is so insistent on making it 250 points' date=' couldn't people's SM reps before this change have been kept the same rather than dropping? At least then it's slightly easier for new members to catch up.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how important is rep?

And does it show how well respected a forumer is, like it's meant to?[/quote']

I agree to a point on the first point you mention but I'm not sure how easy it is to introduce a second rep power limit at a time interval.

Rep's not important at all. It's nice to have as it shows people like what you do on the forum but as there are so many varied sections of the forum it doesn't really make any difference. Some people earn theirs in graphics, some in player assistance and some with detailed posts in general football or misc. Then you have the all-round post whores like myself :)

It works to an extent. I certainly rate the high repped guys a lot but sometimes looks can be deceiving as I elaborate on in the first post :o

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

Just to clarify a few things:

1) The one change I have made is completely reversable.

2) I am completely open to suggestions/changes to the rep system.

3) We are limited by what Vbulletin will allow and it is worth looking at Vbulletin's website if people want to know what can and can't be done. SM are not generally keen to add plugins.

4) People are welcome to create threads with polls if they want to debate specific settings etc; PM me and I will keep an eye on it.

I appreciate there are downsides to the one change made this evening. There will be to any change made.

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

Rep has always been a feature which has been fascinating to me in as much as how much people value it. There are some who will not pay any credence to it, whilst there are others who will view it as an indication of someone to look up to or as a level to aspire to. The problem is, the rep system has never been fair in my opinion, is impossible to police and certainly it would be difficult to justify it being a true representation of what it is intended to be. A few examples of where the rep system can be abused/is flawed:

- The quickest way to gain rep in my experience is to get involved in or instigate an argument on the forum. Debates are good and rep for well made points is all good. But I'm talking about ones where personal insults or attacking groups of members/fans (often without justification) where often moderators need to get involved. Very quickly two sides develop and the person causing the unsavoury scenes will see their rep points rocket. There's plenty of examples of this if you look around the forum.

- Rep bumping between friends remains rife despite the admin's team to negate/tackle this (Ben mentioned this and as an ex-mod I totally agree). There are groups of friends who will happily rep each other for any post they see knowing it will be reciprocated in kind. By doing this repeatedly their rep rises and each time the rise will be worth more as their personal reps increase and it just snowballs to the extent that soon they will be amongst the highest rep members on the forum. The admin team tried to tackle this issue by not allowing re-repping so soon. But this has backfired in some respects as it just means members who are involved in rep bumping will go around the forum repping random members and posts until they can rep their mates again. This leads to a secondary problem of unjustified rep. I've certainly received this in the past from some.

- Frequency of giving rep is another issue. We all have different levels of post which we feel are rep-worthy. Some of us hardly ever give rep, whilst others give rep more liberally. Those who tend to give more liberally will inevitably receive back to the person they have given. For many it is almost obligatory (I've certainly been guilty of reciprocating rep in the past) to return the favour.

- As mentioned in the original post, getting rep or earning the favour of the highest rep members is also a good way to have your rep rocket. Personally, I've always found it preposterous that getting rep from one member who been on the forum for a while can be worth 50 times + as much as the rep from a relative newcomer.

So taking into account that the rep system rewards members who argue/cause disruption, friends who repeatedly rep one another, those who generally rep more and those who can become chummy with the higher rep members on the forum and also from the look of this thread is causing some resentment amongst some, is it worth keeping?

EDIT: My suggestion to change the rep system (which I feel would be impossible to implement bearing in mind the reluctance for plug-ins, but I;m goign to say it anyway :)) would be as follows:

All members first rep to any other member is worth 32pts. Any future rep that member gives to the same member, is reduced in value as follows:

1st rep = 32 pts

2nd rep = 16 pts

3rd rep = 8 pts

4th rep = 4 pts

5th rep = 2 pts

6th rep = 1 pt

7th rep = 0.5pts ......and so on

Added to this, all rep for deleted posts should be rescinded.

This would tackle several of the problems listed above and would promote members who are reaching out to a wider audience rather than a select group of friends/like-minded members. It would encourage newer members and allow them to reach the levels of more long-standing members sooner (if they post good posts consistently and assuming this was applied to all rep received so far retrospectively). It would tackle the random reppers to some extent (although not completely). Only problem could be members making new accounts to rep themselves and get the 32 pt reps, but IP checks could perhaps prevent this (or maybe a system whereby the rep only becomes active if the member makes 10 posts/month over a period of 3 months). But I guess this sort of system would be impossible to implement with the restrictions in place.

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

This might not have any relation to what's happening here. But i've noticed I've lost quite alot of rep all of a sudden and I'd really like to know how. I've gone from Rep 18 to Rep 9. Am just curious about whats happening.

Thanks' date=' Dale.[/quote']

yeah mate it been changed...you need 250 points to go up 1 rep power point so that why it changed...its changed for everyone mate.

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

This might not have any relation to what's happening here. But i've noticed I've lost quite alot of rep all of a sudden and I'd really like to know how. I've gone from Rep 18 to Rep 9. Am just curious about whats happening.

Thanks' date=' Dale.[/quote']

its changed for everyone , i saw someone lost like 40 rep down to 25. :eek:

this is good anyways

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

Ok, after thinking about it for a while ive got a suggestion.

Why not return the rep system to how it was? :o

Sure, Insider may have 101 Rep power points, but to be honest does it matter all that much?

What is shows is that hes obviously done alot for many people on this forum, and also that he is a very well respected person too. I know what everyones saying about newbies playing catch up.. but to be honest do they need to?

Same too with Ken, he too has worked hard to get his recignition in the form of rep, and its a way of showing who the more experienced people are.

In a way, the newbies dont need to play catch up but even if they did acleast they have someone to look up to. Sure Insider may be able to put someone up a whole rep bar level.. but so what?

If he reps someone then im sure he knows that his level of points is seriously high, so id imagine the rep he hands out is only for the much better posts.

There was nothing wrong with the way it was. 100 rep points needed to acquire an extra rep bar. It never really caused that much fuss and to be honest all the people that do like their rep high (Some of the people below) wont be too pleased. To be honest, although im not overly fussed its still a bit annoying to have your rep slashed so much. I was on about 28 and now im on 13. :o

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

A lot of good ideas in here and I couldnt quite take them all in, but I wanted to point out the fact that the current solution hs made no difference whatsoever.

Readjusting from 100 to 250 has merely made the numbers smaller but has not solved any of the problems. (its illusionary) He may as well have made it 10 for all the difference it makes.

All teb has done here is reprice rep, its kinda like inflation, and from an economists point of view everythings stays the same. The ratio of rep is all but the same (excluding the 1000pts bonus) the problem of gaining rep stays the same as everyone still gains it proportionally the same etc etc.

Another analogy is when countries like India have Rupees where a 1000 rupees buys a quarterpounder whereas here it costs £2, both systems however are are effectively the same. The number is a "nominal figure" and proportionally there is no difference, really really can not emphasise this enough.

The problem I thinnk a lot of people see is that rep generally will increase as a more members join and more rep is spread (as it can never go down) so it will eventually snowball like we are seeing (unless members leave). Im not sure what the solution is however . . .

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

A lot of good ideas in here and I could quite take in all the ideas' date=' but I wanted to point out the fact that the current solution hs made no difference whatsoever.

Readjsuting from 100 to 250 has merely made the numbers smaller but has not solved any of the problems. (its illusionary) He may as well have made it 10 for all the differenece it makes.

All teb has done here is reprice rep, its kinda like inflation, and from an economists point of view everythings stays the same. The ratio of rep is all but the same (excluding the 1000pts bonus) the problem of gaining rep stays the same as everyone still gains it proportionally the same etc etc.

Another analogy is when countries like India have Rupees where a 1000 rupees buys a quarterpounder whereas here it costs £2, both systems are the same. The number is nominal and proportionally there is no difference can not emphasise this enough.

The problem I thinnk a lot of people see is that rep generally will increase as a more members remain as it can never go down so it will eventually snowball like we are seeing (unless members leave). Im not sure what the solution is however . . .

Iv got a solution. Get rid of it. end of.

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

But the thing is' date=' we would surely still need something to show how well respected a forumer is and how good people consider his/her posts to be?

Have the people in charge ever considered getting rid of it?[/quote']

Wouldn't really agree with that, everyone starts of as an equal in my eyes regardless of rep. How they post and conduct themselves on the forum then shapes my view of them. I've never needed to look at rep to determine who's opinion I would trust or who makes me think in different ways. Some of the best posters in my eyes have low reps and the same goes for vice versa. Everyone's idea of what make a good forum member is also vastly different and the rep system has never/can ever make a true indication of how all of us feel.

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Re: Forum Improvement | Rep Overhaul

Wouldn't really agree with that' date=' everyone starts of as an equal in my eyes regardless of rep. How they post and conduct themselves on the forum then shapes my view of them. I've never needed to look at rep to determine who's opinion I would trust or who makes me think in different ways. Some of the best posters in my eyes have low reps and the same goes for vice versa. Everyone's idea of what make a good forum member is also vastly different and the rep system has never/can ever make a true indication of how all of us feel.[/quote']

Mate..spot on !..i was saying this the other day.. it not how many rep bars you got it what you bring to the fourm..like i said the other day i only have 1 rep point now and ifeel a big part of this forum..it really is what you make it.

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