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Nani or Di Maria?


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Nani or Di Maria?  

  1. 1.

    • Luis Nani
      64
    • Angel Di Maria
      62


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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

http://www.football-lineups.com/lineup/191619/

Last games line up. Who's the idiot now. :)

If you were actually in the know with Real Madrid at the moment, you'd know that Jose is playing with a squad lacking a striker, which is something he wants to fix. Given Higuain is injured. That is not his ideal first XI, and when he has a fully fit squad/buys someone like RVN, then I will still be proved right.

Nice try champ;)

Oh and by the way, Nani's still the better of the two :)

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

If you were actually in the know with Real Madrid at the moment' date=' you'd know that Jose is playing with a squad lacking a striker, which is something he wants to fix. Given Higuain is injured. That is not his ideal first XI, and when he has a fully fit squad/buys someone like RVN, then I will still be proved right.

Nice try champ;)

Oh and by the way, Nani's still the better of the two :)[/quote']

That's why Ozil started on the bench against Mallorca and not Di Maria? And then when he needed to mix things up, it was Kaka he took off at ht for Ozil?

Nice try champ ;) Still clueless :)

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

That's why Ozil started on the bench against Mallorca and not Higuain? And then when he needed to mix things up' date=' it was Kaka he took off at ht for Ozil?

Nice try champ ;) Still clueless :)[/quote']

Heard of Jose's rotation policy? Oh wait I forgot, you don't keep up to date with Madrid, my bad. Combined with the fact that Kaka has just come back from a long term injury thus Jose is taking precautions, rather than taking the ability based sub in Di Maria off?

sooo close champ;), be careful though, it's just embarrassing when as a clueless person you try and call me clueless:)

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Heard of Jose's rotation policy? Oh wait I forgot' date=' you don't keep up to date with Madrid, my bad. Combined with the fact that Kaka has just come back from a long term injury thus Jose is taking precautions, rather than taking the ability based sub in Di Maria off?

sooo close champ;), be careful though, it's just embarrassing when as a clueless person you try and call me clueless:)[/quote']

Jose's rotation policy? Is that why only 15 players at Madrid have over 200 minutes in the league this season? That why only 16 Inter players last season played over 800 minutes (less than 9 games)?

Kaka has been injury free and fit for first team football since the end of December. It wasn't a precaution. It was a hauling off at HT for playing badly.

If you're going to get into this argument and lose all over again, at least come at me with some credible points, as you say, it is embarrassing.

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

That's why Ozil started on the bench against Mallorca and not Higuain? And then when he needed to mix things up' date=' it was Kaka he took off at ht for Ozil?

Nice try champ ;) Still clueless :)[/quote']

Firstly your summation of the Real situation in relation to Di Maria I totally agree with and what an obvious talent the guy is. In terms of SM he is the stand-out option as I explained in my previous post. However your analysis of Nani is off the mark for me. It's more a case of Di Maria's brilliance rather than all the attributes which Nani is supposedly missing which makes me come up to the conclusion Di Maria is the better option...

Firstly yes Utd have not got out of second gear and are cruising but up until this point Nani has arguably been the brightest spark of the Utd attack (I'm sure some will disagree and say Berbatov but when you analyse the spread of his goals I don't think that case stands, I certainly don't feel his influence eclipses Nani's but I leave that open to conjecture and it doesn't really matter either way tbh) You can also say I'm damning Nani with faint praise if you like when you look at the rest of the Utd team but the fact remains they are top of the English Premiership and must be odds-on favourites to win the League (not checked any bookies though :P) So to be considered one of the most influential offensive players for a team in such a position should not be taken lightly in anyone's eyes.

Last season Utd were heavily reliant on Rooney, that influence has more or less totally disappeared this season yet the club still continues to win games. This is in no small part due to the more prominent role of the likes of Nani in particular. This issue should certainly not be under-estimated, basically taking out of the team a 20+ goal scorer on top of doing the same the season before with Ronaldo leaving. Of course I'm not saying Nani has born all the burden but he's certainly taken a lot of it. Whilst last season's best winger Valencia has also been missing the majority of the season. Please don't underestimate the role Nani is playing to Utd's 'success' this season.

I also totally reject this claim about not scoring important goals as well. I fear this is based purely with the goals vs Birmingham and Blackburn in mind? I assume when you are referring to 'importance' you mean in terms of context within the games this season. We are only at the half-way point so there's been no 'cup finals' as of yet whilst Utd haven't had the hardest of fixtures either. This shouldn't detract from anything though. Every game is important at the top of the league.

So some important goals in terms of 'context':

Winner vs Bursapor, early C/L group game

Winner vs Stoke

Scored decisive second vs Spurs, was a farce but also quick thinking no matter what you want to say.

1st Equaliser vs Bolton

If we want to talk about some big games last season I'm sure he scored that chip vs Arsenal (was it last season or before? I forget) whilst he scored 2 vs Bayern of course. Those are off memory. He is an improved player this season so I fully expect to be able to give more examples from this season's business end but we shall see...

I've played along to some extent regarding importance of goals as tbh you could pick plenty of the 'less important' goals in a career and I could pick the 'important ones' and yet there'll always be a split, as you will most likely find for every single player if we did the same for them which is kind of a good thing as you want players that score in all types of games, all the great goal scorers have done.

I thought the goal scoring claim should be addressed as I feel it was without substance but tbh you are placing too much importance on it anyway no matter when the goals came, there is so much more to Nani's game, i.e. check who's top of the Assist charts in the Premiership for starters ;)

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Firstly your summation of the Real situation in relation to Di Maria I totally agree with and what an obvious talent the guy is. In terms of SM he is the stand-out option as I explained in my previous post. However your analysis of Nani is off the mark for me. It's more a case of Di Maria's brilliance rather than all the attributes which Nani is supposedly missing which makes me come up to the conclusion Di Maria is the better option...

Ah finally' date=' I get to debate Nani with someone who is not wearing scum-tinted glasses.

Firstly yes Utd have not got out of second gear and are cruising but up until this point Nani has arguably been the brightest spark of the Utd attack (I'm sure some will disagree and say Berbatov but when you analyse the spread of his goals I don't think that case stands, I certainly don't feel his influence eclipses Nani's but I leave that open to conjecture and it doesn't really matter either way tbh) You can also say I'm damning Nani with faint praise if you like when you look at the rest of the Utd team but the fact remains they are top of the English Premiership and must be odds-on favourites to win the League (not checked any bookies though :P) So to be considered one of the most influential offensive players for a team in such a position should not be taken lightly in anyone's eyes.

I did say Nani was the stand out player. I must post out that I said all this back in November, a lot of football has been played since then. With regards to the Premiership this season, I think the standard of the top players in the top teams has dropped.

Chelsea - barring their great starts, no players have stood out as on the top of their game.

Liverpool - No comment needed.

Man City - Not clicking well enough or winning enough games to justify their value.

Arsenal - Playing some great stuff but players like Arshavin, Fabregas, the real stars have not shone. Nasri has taken over though, fair play to him.

Spurs - About the only team that are exceeding expectation, and that is heavily due to Bale, VDV and Modric. They are a different team without them 3 players.

Last season Utd were heavily reliant on Rooney' date=' that influence has more or less totally disappeared this season yet the club still continues to win games. This is in no small part due to the more prominent role of the likes of Nani in particular. This issue should certainly not be under-estimated, basically taking out of the team a 20+ goal scorer on top of doing the same the season before with Ronaldo leaving. Of course I'm not saying Nani has born all the burden but he's certainly taken a lot of it. Whilst last season's best winger Valencia has also been missing the majority of the season. Please don't underestimate the role Nani is playing to Utd's 'success' this season.[/quote']

Ok, but what about Hernandez. How many winners has that guy got now?! Park got a last minute-er amongst others, Berba's turned up at last, Fletcher has a couple, as does Vidic. The goals are coming from all over so it is unfair to attribute a majority of the success to 1 player.

I also totally reject this claim about not scoring important goals as well. I fear this is based purely with the goals vs Birmingham and Blackburn in mind? I assume when you are referring to 'importance' you mean in terms of context within the games this season. We are only at the half-way point so there's been no 'cup finals' as of yet whilst Utd haven't had the hardest of fixtures either. This shouldn't detract from anything though. Every game is important at the top of the league.

So some important goals in terms of 'context':

Winner vs Bursapor' date=' early C/L group game

Winner vs Stoke

Scored decisive second vs Spurs, was a farce but also quick thinking no matter what you want to say.

1st Equaliser vs Bolton[/quote']

Bursaspor - would have won the group anyway.

Stoke - after I posted

Spurs - game was pretty much wrapped up

Bolton - the 2nd goal of 4 in a match is hardly decisive?

If we want to talk about some big games last season I'm sure he scored that chip vs Arsenal (was it last season or before? I forget) whilst he scored 2 vs Bayern of course. Those are off memory. He is an improved player this season so I fully expect to be able to give more examples from this season's business end but we shall see...

I totally agree he is an improved player. However' date=' in 21 games this season, Man Utd have scored 2 or less goals. For PL leaders that isn't great, and that is why Nani has looked so good. In an attack that has at times lacked a certain spark, he has stood out. Look around him, Berba, Park, Fletcher, Giggs, Scholes, Carrick, none of them have any pace. It is easy to see why he has stood out, and for a lot of games been the go to man for them.

I've played along to some extent regarding importance of goals as tbh you could pick plenty of the 'less important' goals in a career and I could pick the 'important ones' and yet there'll always be a split, as you will most likely find for every single player if we did the same for them which is kind of a good thing as you want players that score in all types of games, all the great goal scorers have done.

I agree. But you could put a lot of players up top for scum against WBA, Bolton etc and they would score. God, Owen's been doing it :rolleyes: However it takes a certain player to get the goals against Europe's elite, and we will soon find out if Nani has what it takes.

I thought the goal scoring claim should be addressed as I feel it was without substance but tbh you are placing too much importance on it anyway no matter when the goals came' date=' there is so much more to Nani's game, i.e. check who's top of the Assist charts in the Premiership ;)[/quote']

I call your attack and raise you a defence. The whole reason they are where they are. If you take away the 7 against Blackburn, and the 5 against Brum, they have scored 36 goals from 20 games.

1.8 goals a game. That's good, but is it good enough to win a league? Well last year Chelsea averaged just under 3 a game, and Scum in 2nd and Arsenal in 3rd averaged over 2 a game. However, when you've already had 16 shut outs this season, then it is good enough.

When you have Evra, Vidic and Rio at the back, it doesn't really matter that your attackers are slightly below par, which is all I really said - which is why I said Nani looked so good.

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Jose's rotation policy? Is that why only 15 players at Madrid have over 200 minutes in the league this season? That why only 16 Inter players last season played over 800 minutes (less than 9 games)?

Kaka has been injury free and fit for first team football since the end of December. It wasn't a precaution. It was a hauling off at HT for playing badly.

If you're going to get into this argument and lose all over again' date=' at least come at me with some credible points, as you say, it is embarrassing.[/quote']

So I had a quick scan on the football websites looking for some articles that are easy to read for people of your intellect/football knowledge, which prove you wrong

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/88/spain/2011/01/24/2320978/spanish-inquisition-why-cant-jose-mourinho-get-his-rotation

The stats you've brought up are meaningless, it remains that there is a rotation policy (not sure why you've just randomly brought up Inter as well)

that article (yes albeit goal.com) is enough to make you look very very stupid,

I will just highlight a few points which make your last posts, and your point about Ozil being rested look very embarrassing.

Title:Spanish Inquisition: Why Can’t Jose Mourinho Get His Rotation System To Work At Real Madrid?

Another week, another nervy escape for Real Madrid in their pursuit to keep Barcelona honest in the title race.

Los Blancos have not had the most convincing of starts to 2011. From the jittery 3-2 win at Getafe, the comeback against Villarreal, to the two most recent games where they only managed to score once each, the cracks are slowly starting to appear in Jose Mourinho’s amour.

Mourinho admitted that the squad rotation that was deployed against Mallorca did not work. The fact is that it has not worked throughout the season.

....................

Starting Kaka and benching Benzema from the start against Almeria didn’t work; resting Oezil and Xabi turned out to be a disaster; sending out a second-string side against Levante in the cup was a fruitless exercise as no one managed to stand out. [interesting,resting Di Maria wasn't commented on]

Oh and by the way I lost the last argument?..................

It took you 2 months to respond to my last post, which absolutely ripped you to pieces, wasnt the first time I did that either ;).

Again, nice try champ;), please stop giving me ammunition to rip you apart I'm actually starting to feel bad:o

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

I am not gonna get into this who is better debate and judging by the polls its pretty even anyway, so a matter of opinion really. However one thing I must say really is to say Nani's looked good because the others are bad is very much unfair. Not only has he been arguably our best player so far this season but even the 2nd half of last season. To say he looks better because United lack pace is again unfair. Nani's no slouch but when you compare him to the likes of Bale, Lennon, Walcott and even the likes of Johnson, Agbonlahor and Young he is not really that quick. He looked fantastic even with Valencia in the side last season whos probably one of the quickest around in the league.

I call your attack and raise you a defence. The whole reason they are where they are. If you take away the 7 against Blackburn' date=' and the 5 against Brum, they have scored 36 goals from 20 games.

1.8 goals a game. That's good, but is it good enough to win a league? Well last year Chelsea averaged just under 3 a game, and Scum in 2nd and Arsenal in 3rd averaged over 2 a game. However, when you've already had 16 shut outs this season, then it is good enough.

When you have Evra, Vidic and Rio at the back, it doesn't really matter that your attackers are slightly below par, which is all I really said - which is why I said Nani looked so good.[/quote']

Come on! If you the remove 3 or 4 times Chelsea scored 7/8 last season then their goals to game ratio will come down quite a lot. Nani is looking good because he has been very good this season and 2nd half of last season.

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Lol' date=' so instead of addressing the facts you bring up an article from Goal of all sites. [/quote']

Goals reputation is only poor in regards to how quickly it will spill bs transfer rumours, that article itself has absaloutely nothing discredible, it is a discussion of facts based on recent games. I have addressed the facts, by pointing you to the facts, as outlined in the article ;).

Guess that speaks volumes really.

I love how you've completely ignored anything about the article' date=' and every point I made. The fact that you've not even been able to respond to anything is the only thing that speaks volumes:)

I'll wait for DLO to reply so I can get some decent and valid points that actually addresses what I have said in my post. :)

um

????

Everything I've posted addresses your posts.

Every point I've made has very much been decent and valid.

You claim these things about what I've said, yet have no explanation/back-up/proof at all?

hmm.. awkward

You have not been able to refute anything I've said, any time you've tried, you've been humiliated.

You dodged everything and tried to pull some bs about the source of the article because you know it completely destroys your ridiculous claim that there is no squad rotation. Its source is irrelevant given the article is well written and the facts it points out are all true.

All you can realistically try and discredit is the articles contents, if you can do that successfully then you may have just a slither of credibility,

but then there's nothing factually incorrect there anyway, so I guess your screwed there..

Theres no use just attacking the source itself if the points remain factual.

The only conclusion that can be drawn is that every point you've made has been squashed beyond any possible reply, hence you have no more points to make (well to be fair you never really had any points) and once again

.....

nice try champ;)

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Goals reputation is only poor in regards to how quickly it will spill bs transfer rumours' date=' that article itself has absaloutely nothing discredible, it is a discussion of facts based on recent games. I[b'] have[/b] addressed the facts, by pointing you to the facts, as outlined in the article ;).

I love how you've completely ignored anything about the article, and every point I made. The fact that you've not even been able to respond to anything is the only thing that speaks volumes:)

um

????

Everything I've posted addresses your posts.

Every point I've made has very much been decent and valid.

You claim these things about what I've said, yet have no explanation/back-up/proof at all?

hmm.. awkward

You have not been able to refute anything I've said, any time you've tried, you've been humiliated.

You dodged everything and tried to pull some bs about the source of the article because you know it completely destroys your ridiculous claim that there is no squad rotation. Its source is irrelevant given the article is well written and the facts it points out are all true.

All you can realistically try and discredit is the articles contents, if you can do that successfully then you may have just a slither of credibility,

but then there's nothing factually incorrect there anyway, so I guess your screwed there..

Theres no use just attacking the source itself if the points remain factual.

The only conclusion that can be drawn is that every point you've made has been squashed beyond any possible reply, hence you have no more points to make (well to be fair you never really had any points) and once again

.....

nice try champ;)

I gave you the facts. You gave me a goal article. LOL.

I will explain fully and in simply terms, I hope you can understand :)

There are 11 players on the pitch at the start of the game.

Real Madrid have 19 players whom have started league games this season. Gago, Granero and Canales have only started one so lets disclude them.

16 left. Kaka, Higuain, Albiol, Lass, have all had lengthy injuries so they required a replacement, no rotation about it, it was simply needed.

So that leaves 12 players. Hardly a rotation system is it.

Mourinho did the same at Inter last season, hence why I brought it up. He does not have a rotation system, he dislikes it, he likes continuity, always has.

Shall we also not forget the original point. You said when Kaka was back, Di Maria would be benched. Well, ermm, he has been back for a month, in which time Benzema, Ozil, and Kaka himself have been benched, and hauled off at half time, yet Di Maria has not. In fact, barring CR7, he has the most minutes of the attacking players at the club.

If you address these points with proper arguments, I will reply in due course. If it is more of your dribble, or a pathetic Goal.com article, I will just let it lie as a lost cause.

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

I gave you the facts. You gave me a goal article. LOL.

I will explain fully and in simply terms' date=' I hope you can understand :)

There are 11 players on the pitch at the start of the game.

Real Madrid have 19 players whom have started league games this season. Gago, Granero and Canales have only started one so lets disclude them.

16 left. Kaka, Higuain, Albiol, Lass, have all had lengthy injuries so they required a replacement, no rotation about it, it was simply needed.

So that leaves 12 players. Hardly a rotation system is it.

Mourinho did the same at Inter last season, hence why I brought it up. [b']He does not have a rotation system, he dislikes it, he likes continuity, always has.[/b]

Shall we also not forget the original point. You said when Kaka was back, Di Maria would be benched. Well, ermm, he has been back for a month, in which time Benzema, Ozil, and Kaka himself have been benched, and hauled off at half time, yet Di Maria has not. In fact, barring CR7, he has the most minutes of the attacking players at the club.

If you address these points with proper arguments, I will reply in due course. If it is more of your dribble, or a pathetic Goal.com article, I will just let it lie as a lost cause.

I have something to add on this subject: Mourinho does like rotation... When he has a squad where he can effectively manage it.

When he coached Porto it was usual to watch Pedro Mendes starting European matches while sitting on the bench in the domestic ones. Alenitchev was one of our most important players in the 2002-2004 period, but he was never a clear starter. Same for Jankauskas. Carlos Alberto started the Champions League final against Monaco at just 19 years old. And so on...

But how do you expect him to do some squad rotation (and I'm excluding cup games rotation during a congested schedule) when he is left with Kalou, Obi Mikel or Benzema as alternatives to the likes of Drogba, Essien and Higuain?

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

I have something to add on this subject: Mourinho does like rotation... When he has a squad where he can effectively manage it.

When he coached Porto it was usual to watch Pedro Mendes starting European matches while sitting on the bench in the domestic ones. Alenitchev was one of our most important players in the 2002-2004 period' date=' but he was never a clear starter. Same for Jankauskas. Carlos Alberto started the Champions League final against Monaco at just 19 years old. And so on...

But how do you expect him to do some squad rotation (and I'm excluding cup games rotation during a congested schedule) when he is left with Kalou, Obi Mikel or Benzema as alternatives to the likes of Drogba, Essien and Higuain?[/quote']

I was talking about within league games. It is not uncommon for many managers to rotate in cups and Europe. In fact, it is expected nowadays. Also, with no disrespect, it is easier to rotate in Superliga games than it is in England, Italy or Spain.

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

I was talking about within league games. It is not uncommon for many managers to rotate in cups and Europe. In fact' date=' it is expected nowadays.[/quote']

Yes, within league games. Mourinho rarely played with the same XI consecutively when he was at Porto. He even made some shocking choices at times... But he always nailed it. :D

I think he went as far as changing his team sheet on purpose just because newspaper "X" said "Y" XI was going to play. :)

Actually I'm not sure if it was Mourinho or Pedroto... :confused:

Also, with no disrespect, it is easier to rotate in Superliga games than it is in England, Italy or Spain.

Meh, I suppose you're right... I only said it for the argument's sake.

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

I gave you the facts. You gave me a goal article. LOL.

The goal article has facts' date=' take the time to actually read it, there is nothing laughable/discredible about the article at all, and the fact that all you can respond with is "Oh its goal" rather than address anything it actually says, just shows how easily it discredits you

Real Madrid have 19 players whom have started league games this season. Gago, Granero and Canales have only started one so lets disclude them.

16 left. Kaka, Higuain, Albiol, Lass, have all had lengthy injuries so they required a replacement, no rotation about it, it was simply needed.

So that leaves 12 players. Hardly a rotation system is it.

Why disclude players who have only started once?, sub appearances, as well as entire half subs do count for something in a rotation system.

Just because those 4 players have been injured for a period of time, does not then automatically remove them from the squad through the whole season, which is what your trying to spin.

Regardless of whatever stat spin you want to pull, Mourinho plays a rotation system, and thats why Ozil has had these sparing few bench minutes that you insist on pointing out.

Mourinho did the same at Inter last season' date=' hence why I brought it up. He does not have a rotation system, he dislikes it, he likes continuity, always has.

[/quote']

haha, this is pathetic. He plays a rotation system!, in a recent press conference in his own words it wasn't working, hence he admits he has been playing it. Maybe he likes continuity in performances/results, but he rotates at Real.

Shall we also not forget the original point. You said when Kaka was back' date=' Di Maria would be benched. Well, ermm, he has been back for a month, in which time Benzema, Ozil, and Kaka himself have been benched, and hauled off at half time, yet Di Maria has not. In fact, barring CR7, he has the most minutes of the attacking players at the club.

[/quote']

This can be put down to many reasons, fitness, saving stars for more important games, it in no way shows that Di Maria is better than any of the others.

By the way, Benzema, Ozil Kaka have all been benched and hauled off at half time... hmm...

not rotation at all:rolleyes:

Its fairly simple really, Kaka is better than both players, and Ozil is better than Di maria, therefore logically, with an ideal XI, Di Maria does not make it.

If you address these points with proper arguments' date=' I will reply in due course. If it is more of your dribble, or a pathetic Goal.com article, I will just let it lie as a lost cause.[/quote']

I have made proper arguments through the whole thread,

you are still unable to respond to/address/discredit the article, so you have no right to call it pathetic without backing up your claim.

Still Nani folks, hardly even a matter of debate :D

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Ah finally' date=' I get to debate Nani with someone who is not wearing [b']scum-tinted glasses.[/b]

Firstly you see the irony in that comment right? :D I am more a lower league fan but I have nothing to hide as a self-professed Utd fan too and hope my lack of bias has been seen when I've seriously questioned a Berba or Fletcher rise. Rafael to 88 and not 89/90 and Mikel over Anderson (although only just for now)

I did say Nani was the stand out player. I must post out that I said all this back in November' date=' a lot of football has been played since then. With regards to the Premiership this season, I think the standard of the top players in the top teams has dropped.

Chelsea - barring their great starts, no players have stood out as on the top of their game.

Liverpool - No comment needed.

Man City - Not clicking well enough or winning enough games to justify their value.

Arsenal - Playing some great stuff but players like Arshavin, Fabregas, the real stars have not shone. Nasri has taken over though, fair play to him.

Spurs - About the only team that are exceeding expectation, and that is heavily due to Bale, VDV and Modric. They are a different team without them 3 players.

[/quote']

Ok yeah would agree with all that but what is the point? To discredit Utd's position at the top? And in turn discredit (to a point) my claim that's he's one of the best offensive players in England's best side. C'mon Utd are there on merit, even if all these teams were performing (barring Arsenal who are playing well and even City to a point) Utd could still feasibly be top and regardless does it matter if Utd are 1st, 2nd or 3rd Nani has been one of the top league performers. 19 league apps, 7 goals and 11 assists. It speaks for itself, barring Nasri I'm struggling to think of a better midfielder in the league (although I stand to be challenged there as I haven't really given it much thought tbh)

Ok' date=' but what about Hernandez. How many winners has that guy got now?! Park got a last minute-er amongst others, Berba's turned up at last, Fletcher has a couple, as does Vidic. The goals are coming from all over so it is unfair to attribute a majority of the success to 1 player.

[/quote']

Well I didn't say he's taken all the burden, certainly not the goal scoring burden! So I've not been unfair at all, it's his over-all contribution. Which includes assists. Taken slightly out of context. I think in general the 'importance' of these goals is somewhat a mute point and a bit desperate (for want of a better word) to discredit Nani's exploits this year. No less if you look at the quality of his goals. Very much his own work, created out of nothing. That's getting lost.

Bursaspor - would have won the group anyway. Maybe so but as the third game it was by no means a 'dead rubber'

Stoke - after I posted Fair enough' date=' apologises should have checked the date[/color']

Spurs - game was pretty much wrapped up No game is wrapped up at 1-0 :rolleyes:

Bolton - the 2nd goal of 4 in a match is hardly decisive? Yeah I would say so, without it, it's the first and only lost of the season so far and wasn't that a run from with inside his half?

I totally agree he is an improved player. However' date=' in 21 games this season, Man Utd have scored 2 or less goals. For PL leaders that isn't great, and that is why Nani has looked so good. In an attack that has at times lacked a certain spark, he has stood out. Look around him, Berba, Park, Fletcher, Giggs, Scholes, Carrick, none of them have any pace. It is easy to see why he has stood out, and for a lot of games been the go to man for them.

[/quote']

I would agree with this to a point but even so the Utd midfield is what it is there isn't much from an offensive P.O.V in there and hasn't been for a while. Others have underperformed but even if they had all been great would we be saying Nani's been average? No chance, his performances would still be getting good reviews, from those in the know. The fact a hugely under-performing Rooney and injured Valencia (Utd's two best offensive players last season) have not been missed is a huge compliment to all those which have taken the mantle on and are still getting the results, despite any stats and averages, to be on top of the league you need to score more than the opposition, yes the defence can make it easier but it's not like Utd have been seriously lacking in this department.

I agree. But you could put a lot of players up top for scum against WBA' date=' Bolton etc and they would score. God, Owen's been doing it :rolleyes: However it takes a certain player to get the goals against Europe's elite, and we will soon find out if Nani has what it takes.

[/quote']

Well one vs Arsenal and 2 vs Bayern, I have no doubt he will continue to prove this but tbh goal-scoring isn't the be all. I'm sure he will, like in the past, continue to contribute in the big games even if it isn't with goal-scoring.

I call your attack and raise you a defence. The whole reason they are where they are. If you take away the 7 against Blackburn' date=' and the 5 against Brum, they have scored 36 goals from 20 games.

1.8 goals a game. That's good, but is it good enough to win a league? Well last year Chelsea averaged just under 3 a game, and Scum in 2nd and Arsenal in 3rd averaged over 2 a game. However, when you've already had 16 shut outs this season, then it is good enough.

When you have Evra, Vidic and Rio at the back, it doesn't really matter that your attackers are slightly below par, which is all I really said - which is why I said Nani looked so good.[/quote']

Anyone who has seen Utd this season will find any kind of defensive praise uneasy. Evra isn't the same nor is Ferdinand, still improving but they are by no means at the heights they have been in previous seasons. They've conceded 14 in 11 away games not exactly great. I see the point you are trying to make here about needing to score less to win, which is fair enough but to suggest the defence is making Nani look better than what he is, is quite ridiculous surely you see this? Whatever happens at the 'wrong end' does not take away from what Nani is doing at the 'right end'.

The long winded depth of the efforts you are going to, to discredit Nani in itself says a lot imo. It's not easy!

You wouldn't believe I advised Di Maria over him really :P

It's simple though peeps in SM terms, Real > Man Utd, Argentina > Portugal, although I maintain this is a tight one as aptly shown by the vote. So Scribe if this whole thread isn't a debate, what is?!!! :eek:

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

I like how Scribe avoids the points :) He's arguing that Mourinho uses a rotation system which is all very well but he can't point out a single game since Kaka's come back when Di Maria has been rotated out, which is the whole point :P

I'd say it's incredibly close and you can't go wrong with either but Di Maria nicks my vote.

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

So Scribe if this whole thread isn't a debate' date=' what is?!!! :eek:[/quote']

Oh there is debating going on, just the Di Maria side doesn't have enough substance to justify there being a debate :D

And yeah Real>United Argentina>Portugal, but that's not important. I mean Vidic is better in real life and for SM than Ricardo Carvalho, even though Real>United and Portugal>Serbia.

The important thing is that Di Maria isn't a guaranteed starter for Argentina, Plus is not considered an important player. He is also not part of an ideal first XI for Real Madrid although he has got minutes so far due to Kaka/Higuains injury forcing to Mourinho to play a less than ideal squad, not to mention with a rotation where everyone will spend time on the field thus his minutes so far have been reliant on other factors.

Nani on the other hand has been fantastic for club and country, one of the best players for both of his teams, and is guaranteed a start for both as well unlike Di Maria.

Oh and incase anyone needed reinforcing, the latest stats

Di Maria

28 starts/5 subs

7 goals

8 assists

Nani

32 starts/3 subs

11 goals

12 assists

Nani has been picked more, created more, and scored more. And has been more influential to his team

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Oh there is debating going on' date=' just the Di Maria side doesn't have enough substance to justify there being a debate :D

And yeah Real>United Argentina>Portugal, but that's not important. I mean Vidic is better in real life and for SM than Ricardo Carvalho, even though Real>United and Portugal>Serbia.

The important thing is that Di Maria isn't a guaranteed starter for Argentina, Plus is not considered an important player. [b']He is also not part of an ideal first XI for Real Madrid[/b] although he has got minutes so far due to Kaka/Higuains injury forcing to Mourinho to play a less than ideal squad, not to mention with a rotation where everyone will spend time on the field thus his minutes so far have been reliant on other factors.

Nani on the other hand has been fantastic for club and country, one of the best players for both of his teams, and is guaranteed a start for both as well unlike Di Maria.

Where is your evidence for this? Saying Ozil/Kaka/Higuain are better is not evidence; it's an opinion.

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Re: Nani or Di Maria?

I like how Scribe avoids the points :) He's arguing that Mourinho uses a rotation system which is all very well but he can't point out a single game since Kaka's come back when Di Maria has been rotated out' date=' which is the whole point :P

I'd say it's incredibly close and you can't go wrong with either but Di Maria nicks my vote.[/quote']

No the whole point was explaining why Ozil had been rotated out once whre Di maria hadn't. Its obvious that game is going to happen. As Ozil is the better player and the reason DI Marias place isn't guaranteed.

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