Jump to content

Nani or Di Maria?


RGbargie
 Share

Nani or Di Maria?  

  1. 1.

    • Luis Nani
      64
    • Angel Di Maria
      62


Recommended Posts

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Where is your evidence for this? Saying Ozil/Kaka/Higuain are better is not evidence; it's an opinion.

Haha, okay mate, statistics for one, Ozil is similar to Di Maria on this seasons stats, 7 goals each, but Ozil 6 more assists, also has more technical ability, and that is the only close battle of these 3. Kaka is a proven better player, he won the Ballon D'or, yes you could argue he is getting worse, but hes better than Di Maria until proven otherwise which Di Maria hasn't done. While Kaka isn't great atm he is returning from injury so miracles cant be expected.. Higuain is a striker and hard to compare, however has a brilliant goal return while playing. I'd love your evidence as to why Di Maria is better than any of these 3;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Haha' date=' okay mate, statistics for one, Ozil is similar to Di Maria on this seasons stats, 7 goals each, but Ozil 6 more assists, also has more technical ability, and that is the only close battle of these 3. Kaka is a proven better player, he won the Ballon D'or, yes you could argue he is getting worse, but hes better than Di Maria until proven otherwise which Di Maria hasn't done. While Kaka isn't great atm he is returning from injury so miracles cant be expected.. Higuain is a striker and hard to compare, however has a brilliant goal return while playing. I'd love your evidence as to why Di Maria is better than any of these 3;)[/quote']

I'd check your stats... If we're talking Real then they both have 6 goals and Ozil has 3 more assists in the same number of games. Negligible. Kaka may be better proven but you can argue the same on so many levels. Gerrard's more proven than Nasri but you wouldn't say he's the better player on current form would you? Both Di Maria and Ozil this season have performed better and have better records than Kaka's ever had in Spain. Higuain, I agree, is very hard to compare. Still, Mourinho's going to choose the best players available to him. On form, Kaka doesn't fit the bill. I'd also wager that from the wing (which is the open position as it were) Di Maria has a better record than either Ozil or Kaka but I can't really be bothered trawling through football line-ups to see how they performed in individual games :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Oh deal please don't start with things like Vidic vs Carvalho as if it's the same thing as Di Maria vs Nani, totally out of context. The levels of the later pair is far closer, i.e. such a poll would not generate such close results for Vidic vs Carvalho. When everything is so tight only then should you resort to the SM criteria. That should go without saying...

I don't get this with Di Maria, you can both go through the complexities of Mourinho's supposed 'rotation policy' or not (like the quote marks? ;)) And where Di Maria will fit into Real in the future but that's just conjecture atm. How can you say for certain he won't fit into that team in the future when he hasn't been dropped yet? It beggars belief tbh.

Unproven 'hypothetical's' is never a strong position to argue from, until proven all you can go on is the more tangible things for something like appearances, i.e. statistics! (P.S. you can take Higuain straight out of the equation as Di Maria was playing when he was fit too)

I don't see why this has become such an issue in the first place either tbh, he's clearly getting enough minutes atm and with the amount of fronts Real compete in I don't think anyone would argue that someone of Di Maria's quality will ever struggle for game-time there, not for a long time, he's obviously highly valued. So yet again I feel the main point is being lost in all of this.

I also don't know how reliable your account of his status with the Argentinian team is either tbh. He was starting at the W/C...

A better route might have been 'selling' Nani a bit more rather than trying to discredit (my new favourite word :P) Di Maria to such lengths. Trust me you've got a far stronger case that way! ;)

P.S. Seen the newly added stats of Nani and Di Maria, that's more like it seen it's a Di Maria VS Nani thread :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

I'd check your stats... If we're talking Real then they both have 6 goals and Ozil has 3 more assists in the same number of games. Negligible. Kaka may be better proven but you can argue the same on so many levels. Gerrard's more proven than Nasri but you wouldn't say he's the better player on current form would you? Both Di Maria and Ozil this season have performed better and have better records than Kaka's ever had in Spain. Higuain' date=' I agree, is very hard to compare. Still, Mourinho's going to choose the best players available to him. On form, Kaka doesn't fit the bill. I'd also wager that from the wing (which is the open position as it were) Di Maria has a better record than either Ozil or Kaka but I can't really be bothered trawling through football line-ups to see how they performed in individual games :)[/quote']

We are talking totals including internationals, both play for big countries, so its just another source of comparing the players which Ozil wins. Nasri is better than Di Maria, and Kaka is better than Gerrard, so I don't accept your example as comparable. Regardless of how the players have performed in respective positions, Mourinho is going to pick Ozil over Di Maria, and Kaka if for any reason will always be the preferred player due to his price tag, Di Maria can surpass Kaka, but hasn't yet, and even if he does his place isn't guaranteed because of Reals tendancy to buy attacking players every year.

Nani on the other hand, no discussion needed, indispensable star for his team, who has played better, is better, and is more secure with starting than Di Maria, which is what this is about after all:p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Nani and Di maria Both are great player and playing for great teams and NT!

I like Di Maria because for example someone "touch him" or make faul on him he doesnt complain and start to yell like Nani and Ronaldo..He is playing football,he is not spoiled..

Nani has great techinque,when he does everything great he screw it with his shoot or assist.

We will see for few months will Di Maria be in first eleven in Real Madrid,because Of Kaka..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

We are talking totals including internationals' date=' both play for big countries, so its just another source of comparing the players which Ozil wins.[/quote']

Hang on, who are we comparing here? Di Maria has far far more competition for a place in the Argentine national side than either Ozil or Nani for their respective countries. Besides, he was playing regularly through the WC too. Barry plays more for his national side than Fabregas... go figure.

Nasri is better than Di Maria' date=' and Kaka is better than Gerrard, so I don't accept your example as comparable.[/quote']

It wasn't an example. It was a precedent of why comparing players by how proven they are is irrelevant as to who's better in the present. Djimi Traore is more proven than Vermaelen if you're talking medals.

Regardless of how the players have performed in respective positions' date=' Mourinho is going to pick Ozil over Di Maria, and Kaka if for any reason will always be the preferred player due to his price tag, Di Maria can surpass Kaka, but hasn't yet, and even if he does his place isn't guaranteed because of Reals tendancy to buy attacking players every year.[/quote']

You really think Mourinho is going to pick his side by price-tag? Kaka wasn't his signing so he's under no personal pressure to play him. Shevchenko didn't get that many games at Chelsea; it's the same thing. Your last point is ridiculous. He's not going to lose his spot because Real go nuts in the summer. If there's any area Real are going to improve, it's the defence and I doubt they'll be spending anywhere like what they've spent recently. The recession and fiscal situation in Spain is finally getting to them. Real line up with 2 wingers, an AM and CF. With everyone fully fit, Higuain takes the point and Ronaldo goes on a wing. The AM spot is between Ozil and Kaka and the other has to compete with Di Maria for the other wing berth. I'd argue that Di Maria is more productive on the wing than either Ozil or Kaka and you haven't argued to the contrary.

Nani on the other hand' date=' no discussion needed, indispensable star for his team, [b']who has played better, is better[/b], and is more secure with starting than Di Maria, which is what this is about after all:p

His place is definitely more secure as United don't have the quality to replace him, even if it's called for. You haven't backed up the bold points at all and before you copy and paste ESPN, playing better doesn't mean having the better stats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Oh deal please don't start with things like Vidic vs Carvalho as if it's the same thing as Di Maria vs Nani' date=' totally out of context. The levels of the later pair is far closer, i.e. such a poll would not generate such close results for the Vidic vs Carvalho. When everything is so tight only then should you resort to the SM criteria. That should go without saying...

[/quote']

But don't you get it, the basis you had was better club better country therefore better player, the Vidic Carvalho example shows how in both SM, and in real life that can't be a reason.

I don't get this with Di Maria' date=' you can both go through the complexities of Mourinho's supposed 'rotation policy' or not (like the quote marks? ;)) And where Di Maria will fit into Real in the future but that's just conjecture atm. How can you say for certain he won't fit into that team in the future when he hasn't been dropped yet? It beggars belief tbh.

Unproven 'hypothetical's' is never a strong position to argue from, until proven all you can go on is the more tangible things for something like appearances, i.e. statistics! (P.S. you can take Higuain straight out of the equation as Di Maria was playing when he was fit too)

I don't see why this has become such an issue in the first place either tbh, he's clearly getting enough minutes atm and with the amount of fronts Real compete in I don't think anyone would argue that someone of Di Maria's quality will ever struggle for game-time there, not for a long time, he's obviously highly valued. So yet again I feel the main is point is being lost in all of this.

I also don't know how reliable your account of his status with the Argentinian team is either tbh. He was starting at the W/C...

A better route might have been 'selling' Nani a bit more rather than trying to discredit (my new favourite word :P) Di Maria to such lengths. Trust me you've got a far stronger case that way! ;)

P.S. Seen the newly added stats of Nani and Di Maria, that's more like it seen it's a Di Maria VS Nani thread :)[/quote']

He did start at the WC, but failed to impress. And the guy who selected him also chose to not call up Zanetti and Cambiasso, with plenty of attacking talent that arguably deserved a place more than Di Maria. He was certainly not a standout player and his place is under hot competition with a new manager in charge.

While it's impossible to ever know the future of any squad, Real have more competition for Di Marias place, and are also likely to buy further competition, past behaviour is a good predictor of future events.

Di Maria has had his share of minutes so far, but never with a complete squad. (yes this leaves me open for someone to say past minutes of Di Maria predict future minutes, but again, never with a complete squad)

Hang on' date=' who are we comparing here? Di Maria has far far more competition for a place in the Argentine national side than either Ozil or Nani for their respective countries. Besides, he was playing regularly through the WC too. Barry plays more for his national side than Fabregas... go figure.

[/quote']

We are comparing Di Maria and Ozil in this instance, and they have both played a similiar amount of games, the stats show are a measure of there output in those games. Because comparing Di Maria and Ozil is needed in order to show why Nani is the better SM choice.

It wasn't an example. It was a precedent of why comparing players by how proven they are is irrelevant as to who's better in the present. Djimi Traore is more proven than Vermaelen if you're talking medals.

No it is very much relevant' date=' experience, and a players known ability will always contribute to there chances of being chosen. If Kaka and Di Maria played the exact same game one day, and only one could be picked the week after, Kaka would get the nod for said experience, known ability

You really think Mourinho is going to pick his side by price-tag? Kaka wasn't his signing so he's under no personal pressure to play him. Shevchenko didn't get that many games at Chelsea; it's the same thing.

The Politics at Madrid are very different to Chelsea, you should know that. If Mou has his way, RVN would have been playing for Madrid 2 weeks ago. He defintley receives some pressure from upstairs (shirt sales, return on kaka investment etc.)

Your last point is ridiculous. He's not going to lose his spot because Real go nuts in the summer. If there's any area Real are going to improve' date=' it's the defence and I doubt they'll be spending anywhere like what they've spent recently. The recession and fiscal situation in Spain is finally getting to them.

[/quote']

Ridiculous?

Coentrao, Bale, Bastos, Cole, Evra

all names that could very easily go to Real, some would directly replace Di Maria, others would push the likes of Marcelo into direct competion on the left wing who has been in some good form himself.

Face it, Madrid is Madrid, they buy year in year out, its a fact, and they will keep generating the cash to do so regardless of how imperfect the country itself is financially.

Real line up with 2 wingers' date=' an AM and CF. With everyone fully fit, Higuain takes the point and Ronaldo goes on a wing. The AM spot is between Ozil and Kaka and the other has to compete with Di Maria for the other wing berth. I'd argue that Di Maria is more productive on the wing than either Ozil or Kaka and you haven't argued to the contrary.

[/quote']

I disagree, I believe Ozil has been more effective, he is the better player regardless of where he plays. Him being better than Di Maria on the wing is your opinion, however what is beyond opinions is that Ozil is the better player in general.. (I hope, or that would be embarrassing for your credibility) Which is the crux of the matter, as he is always going to be the more likely to play in an ideal team

His place is definitely more secure as United don't have the quality to replace him' date=' even if it's called for. [/quote']

While its true United don't have quality replacements, that doesnt actually mean that Nani is able to get away with playing worse. Competition or not, Nani's been the better player

You haven't backed up the bold points at all and before you copy and paste ESPN' date=' playing better doesn't mean having the better stats.

[/quote']

Well by the same token you haven't disproved them. The stats are reasons that support the claim. If we want to talk about 'playing' better, I suppose one would look at who has influenced games more, who has stood out more, who the team has depended on more. The answer of course is Nani each time;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

But don't you get it' date=' the basis you had was better club better country therefore better player, the Vidic Carvalho example shows how in both SM, and in real life that can't be a reason.

[/quote']

Lol err what, yeah I'm not sure I do get this? I said in SM terms Di Maria gets my vote due to the extra edge those two factors play, frankly your example is totally irrelevant, other than playing for the same teams there's no relation to my point. C'mon I don't believe you're stupid, you know the point I'm making stop justifying it. (but just in case...) In terms of SM the better/more successful teams provide an edge to assisting rating rises. Seen Nani and Di Maria are so closely matched in my eyes this is a defining, concrete factor for me to opt, marginally for Di Maria. IRL I don't know who I'd go for tbh.

Vidic is a much better defender than Carvalho so I repeat irrelevant and argumentative at best to justify it's use :rolleyes:

He did start at the WC' date=' but failed to impress. And the guy who selected him also chose to not call up Zanetti and Cambiasso, with plenty of attacking talent that arguably deserved a place more than Di Maria. He was certainly not a standout player and his place is under hot competition with a new manager in charge.[/quote']

So he is still the starter then? Not guaranteed starter but starting? It's all conjecture again whether he will or will not lose his place. I can name 30 others which failed to impress which won't be dropped from their international teams so hardly a basis (if you are implying it is, plenty underperformed) Which attacking options deserved a spot in the line-up more than Di Maria? (serious question no sarcasm meant) Maradonna is irrelevant also as bottom line is Di Maria played! You seem to live in this World of 'ifs' 'buts' and 'maybes' you need to have a more tangible basis to your points. Nothing in the past is acceptable evidence and can easily be dismissed, yet you preach about future events (which obviously haven't happened yet) as if they are fact when you disregard or dismiss real facts with little acknowledgement. I understand you are too deep into this now to turn back :P but seriously you're losing some perspective IMO.

While it's impossible to ever know the future of any squad' date=' Real have more competition for Di Marias place, and are also likely to buy further competition, past behaviour is a good predictor of future events.

Di Maria has had his share of minutes so far, but never with a complete squad. (yes this leaves me open for someone to say past minutes of Di Maria predict future minutes, but again, never with a complete squad)

[/quote']

Would agree to a point with Real's exploits in the transfer market but I don't think anyone is in a position to second guess what will happen here really and seen they have actually got a decent manager in charge who isn't the type of character which will pander to the hierarchy's fickle wishes and seen Di Maria has performed admirably this season and has obviously got even more undoubted potential, these are equally if not better predictors of what Di Maria's future at Real will hold (trying to speak your language there, trying to relate to my audience B))

With all those minutes you don't have a credible case until it starts to change, that's the bottom line I'm afraid and it's really quite simple. As atm your point is merely an opinion. :o

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

With all those minutes you don't have a credible case until it starts to change' date=' that's the bottom line I'm afraid and it's really quite simple. As atm your point is merely an opinion. :o[/quote']

Put perfectly :) And if you point to his performances in those minutes we've already established he has a similar record to Ozil, who in your opinion is miles better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

DLO and Stuart have said pretty much all that needs to be said. One thing though, you cannt compare Ozil and Di Maria's stats. One is a winger and the other is in the hole! Of course Ozil will be getting the assists, he is the playmaker up there. Another reason why Nani leads in that area, he's the general go to man on the attack.

Just one thing about your replies though...

There are 11 players on the pitch at the start of the game.

Fact.

Real Madrid have 19 players whom have started league games this season. Gago' date=' Granero and Canales have only started one so lets disclude them.[/quote']

Fact.

16 left. Kaka' date=' Higuain, Albiol, Lass, have all had lengthy injuries so they required a replacement, no rotation about it, it was simply needed.[/quote']

Fact.

Mourinho did the same at Inter last season' date=' hence why I brought it up. [/quote']

Fact.

You said when Kaka was back' date=' Di Maria would be benched. [/quote']

Fact.

Well' date=' ermm, he has been back for a month, in which time Benzema, Ozil, and Kaka himself have been benched, and hauled off at half time, yet Di Maria has not. [/quote']

Fact.

In fact' date=' barring CR7, he has the most minutes of the attacking players at the club. [/quote']

Fact.

The goal article has facts' date=' take the time to actually read it, there is nothing laughable/discredible about the article at all, and the fact that all you can respond with is "Oh its goal" rather than address anything it actually says, just shows how easily it discredits you[/quote']

Nothing really, opinion I guess.

Why disclude players who have only started once?' date=' sub appearances, as well as entire half subs do count for something in a rotation system.[/quote']

Not sure about this really, no facts though.

Just because those 4 players have been injured for a period of time' date=' does not then automatically remove them from the squad through the whole season, which is what your trying to spin. [/quote']

No it doesn't but it enforces others to play. They are not in the team to be rotated, they are in the team because they are replacing an injury.

Regardless of whatever stat spin you want to pull' date=' Mourinho plays a rotation system, and thats why Ozil has had these sparing few bench minutes that you insist on pointing out.[/quote']

Opinion.

haha' date=' this is pathetic. He plays a rotation system!, in a recent press conference in his own words it wasn't working, hence he admits he has been playing it. Maybe he likes continuity in performances/results, but he rotates at Real.[/quote']

Will wait for evidence... Also, there is a difference between rotation and resting somebody who has had a hectic schedule.

This can be put down to many reasons' date=' fitness, saving stars for more important games, it in no way shows that Di Maria is better than any of the others.[/quote']

Opinion.

By the way' date=' Benzema, Ozil Kaka have all been benched and hauled off at half time... hmm...

not rotation at all:rolleyes:[/quote']

No, it was because of bad performance , sooooo, opinion - a wrong one.

Its fairly simple really' date=' Kaka is better than both players, and Ozil is better than Di maria, therefore logically, with an ideal XI, Di Maria does not make it.[/quote']

Opinion.

I have made proper arguments through the whole thread' date='

you are still unable to respond to/address/discredit the article, so you have no right to call it pathetic without backing up your claim.

Still Nani folks, hardly even a matter of debate :D[/quote']

Opinion.

You see where I'm going with this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Nani and Di maria Both are great player and playing for great teams and NT!

I like Di Maria because for example someone "touch him" or make faul on him he doesnt complain and start to yell like Nani and Ronaldo..He is playing football' date='he is not spoiled..

Nani has great techinque,when he does everything great he screw it with his shoot or assist.

We will see for few months will Di Maria be in first eleven in Real Madrid,because Of Kaka..[/quote']

Im sorry mate, but DM dives horribly. :o

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Respuesta: Re: Nani or Di Maria?

We are talking totals including internationals' date=' both play for big countries, so its just another source of comparing the players which Ozil wins. Nasri is better than Di Maria, and Kaka is better than Gerrard, so I don't accept your example as comparable.[b'] Regardless of how the players have performed in respective positions, Mourinho is going to pick Ozil over Di Maria,[/b] and Kaka if for any reason will always be the preferred player due to his price tag, Di Maria can surpass Kaka, but hasn't yet, and even if he does his place isn't guaranteed because of Reals tendancy to buy attacking players every year.

Nani on the other hand, no discussion needed, indispensable star for his team, who has played better, is better, and is more secure with starting than Di Maria, which is what this is about after all:p

I have to say that Mourinho prefers Di Maria over Özil on the wing which is normal.

Kakà is playing awfully but Mou is giving him some chances like against Mallorca but IMO he won't break in the starting XI.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Surely thats in Nani's favour on SM terms? Its quite clear that Nani stands out more in ManU than DiMaria does in RM.

Not necessarily. SM regard Real as a better club than United. Nani is a big fish in a relatively small pond of attacking midfielders at United whereas Di Maria is performing on a similar level (he has slightly fewer goals/assists but is far less wasteful). They'll rise at a similar rate but given that this is Di Maria's settling period' date=' so to speak, I think the potential's in his favour.

Nani is under rated he plays so well for man u he is a he is a mix of Ronald and messi but obviously not as good plus nani is playing at the better team for youth and getting played :)

Haha, are you serious? Nani a mixture of Ronaldo and Messi... Jeeeez. Di Maria's getting played just as much as Nani and when was the last time United brought through any decent youth?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Not necessarily. SM regard Real as a better club than United. Nani is a big fish in a relatively small pond of attacking midfielders at United whereas Di Maria is performing on a similar level (he has slightly fewer goals/assists but is far less wasteful). They'll rise at a similar rate but given that this is Di Maria's settling period' date=' so to speak, I think the potential's in his favour.

[/quote']

Its clear DM has settled in well so its not a settling in period. Nani may have less quality players around him, but hes been banging in goals from all over the place regardless of the players around him. Nani's a more complete player also imo, can score and assist. His future is also more stable, you dont know when Mou will have a row or disagreement and he'll be off with a bumper pay cheque. Next thing you know, the manager after him doesnt have DM in his plans. Nani is the better option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Haha' date=' are you serious? Nani a mixture of Ronaldo and Messi... Jeeeez. Di Maria's getting played just as much as Nani and when was the last time United brought through any decent youth?[/quote']

Gary Neville

Phil Neville

Jonny Evans

paul Scholes

wes brown

John o'shea

ryan Giggs

Darren Fletcher

Darron Gibson

Danny Welbeck

and i know he's old but one of the best players in his time mr beckham:cool:

all of these are good

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

Gary Neville

Phil Neville

Jonny Evans

paul Scholes

wes brown

John o'shea

ryan Giggs

Darren Fletcher

Darron Gibson

Danny Welbeck

and i know he's old but one of the best players in his time mr beckham:cool:

all of these are good

The Nevilles, Scholes, Brown, O'Shea, Giggs, Beckham and Fletcher were all brought through years ago. Might as well talk about Casillas et al. So, of the fairly recent ones you have Evans, Gibson and Welbeck. Welbeck has primarily been brought through by Sunderland as he's made just 8 appearances for United. Evans and Gibson are by no means good. Back to the drawing board?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Nani or Di Maria?

I think he means in terms of giving youth a chance, i.e. the likes of Rafael, Hernandez not necessarily from the actual youth set-up fair point but tbh I don't think Nani can be considered 'youth' any more anyway tbh so not sure of the relevance of this.

Have to say I agree with Stuart that Real is probably the better platform because of the players around Di Maria which will surely result in success sooner or later, this will propel ratings. I'm still not totally convinced by Utd whilst Nani has an inconsistent history (admittedly I'm not as clued up about Di Maria's history so can't make much of a comparison :o)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...