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Methods to report in-game cheating

Methods to report in-game cheating  

  1. 1.

    • Yes. The system is now open to abuse from cheats.
      77
    • No. The system as it stands is fine.
      3
    • I hadn't noticed the change.
      17
    • I don't really care.
      3


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Re: Does SM need to bring back the ability to report cheats with a support ticket?

I like the fact that now you report a transfer you have to justify it - I have had deals reported by people in games who you've outbid for players and they are bitter to have lost out.

My problem is that a lot of cheating relates to things other than transfers - for instance in one setup I am in, someone took on a second team and both teams were managed by people with the same name (and not a Cristiano Ronaldo, a REAL name), but there was NO way to report this. Or someone is taking on a team in a game and quitting them to transfer block them until their main team can afford to snaffle a player. Or someone is flaunting a ban and coming back to a team they have been removed from (usually most easily identifiable because it's an unfashionable team suddenly being taken on by a 40 rep manager) - it's these things we also need to be able to report.

I'm pleased that the amount of reporting is up, but if transfer reporting is up what about all the things that we can't now report that need investigating?

For instance the one ticket I raised because someone was (I kid you not) running SEVEN teams in one game and I was able to raise a Multiple Accounts ticket and get the guy shut down from all 7 teams.

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Re: Does SM need to bring back the ability to report cheats with a support ticket?

I like the fact that now you report a transfer you have to justify it - I have had deals reported by people in games who you've outbid for players and they are bitter to have lost out.

My problem is that a lot of cheating relates to things other than transfers - for instance in one setup I am in' date=' someone took on a second team and both teams were managed by people with the same name (and not a Cristiano Ronaldo, a REAL name), but there was NO way to report this. Or someone is taking on a team in a game and quitting them to transfer block them until their main team can afford to snaffle a player. Or someone is flaunting a ban and coming back to a team they have been removed from (usually most easily identifiable because it's an unfashionable team suddenly being taken on by a 40 rep manager) - it's these things we also need to be able to report.

[/quote']

The trouble with reporting each of these incidents as cheating is that while they may well have been cheating equally they could have been legit managers engaging in those actions. From your perspective you see someone taking a team just to transfer block someone, but it is also plausible that it was a honest manager taking them. Same with a 40-rep manager taking an unfashionable team, while likely that it is the same guy returning, it is also possible that it is a new manager,you just don't know for sure. Same with 2 managers with the same name. I'm in a set-up where 2 managers have the same name but are actually different people.

My point here is that there is nothing in any of these examples alone that actually proves that someone is a cheat, for there could be a rational explanation for each one. And if you have no concrete proof, if thee is any doubt at all, then really you should not be reporting someone as a cheat or a suspicion. What if you accidently got an honest manager kicked out just because you felt they were stepping on your toes a little?

I do agree with you that it's good that you now have to justify your reporting of an illegal transfer, but as for the rest if this is what SM is usually dealing with, hunches, suspicions, and unjustified accusations then perhaps it is good that cheating has become harder for people to report. Really though I don't think I can agree with that last statement, the new system is still a step backwards, but when reporting people need to be much more judicious in what they report as cheating. The examples given above could really go either way.

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Re: Does SM need to bring back the ability to report cheats with a support ticket?

The trouble with reporting each of these incidents as cheating is that while they may well have been cheating equally they could have been legit managers engaging in those actions. From your perspective you see someone taking a team just to transfer block someone' date=' but it is also plausible that it was a honest manager taking them. Same with a 40-rep manager taking an unfashionable team, while likely that it is the same guy returning, it is also possible that it is a new manager,you just don't know for sure. Same with 2 managers with the same name. I'm in a set-up where 2 managers have the same name but are actually different people. [/quote']

Agree with your point. In the instances above it is the same manager coming in and taking the team on and then quitting every second day at about the same time as another manager comes on - always the same manager. The 2 managers with the same name was also the same. One was called Matthew Surname and the other was Mat Surname - and one logged on, then logged off at and the other logged on. Wasn't a Smith or anything common like that. There are also other reasons the cheating is obvious which I haven't gone into for brevity.

My point here is that there is nothing in any of these examples alone that actually proves that someone is a cheat, for there could be a rational explanation for each one. And if you have no concrete proof, if thee is any doubt at all, then really you should not be reporting someone as a cheat or a suspicion. What if you accidently got an honest manager kicked out just because you felt they were stepping on your toes a little?

I do agree with you that it's good that you now have to justify your reporting of an illegal transfer, but as for the rest if this is what SM is usually dealing with, hunches, suspicions, and unjustified accusations then perhaps it is good that cheating has become harder for people to report. Really though I don't think I can agree with that last statement, the new system is still a step backwards, but when reporting people need to be much more judicious in what they report as cheating. The examples given above could really go either way.

Agree with what you're saying, but SM do have a good history of getting these things right and erring on the side of caution. I would rather raise something as being possibly fraudulent and be told that something is legit than leave something because I'm not quite 100% certain and potentially see a setup ruined because of it.

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Re: Methods to report in-game cheating

Hesse has already done a great job of challenging all the things I disagreed with in Johns post.

SM is a great game. Lots of the recent changes are really positive. However for me Devs always get really defensive even in the face of fair criticism.

You're human and not perfect. No problem. But rather than saying " You're right we're sorry, perhaps we should have made an announcement so people knew what was going on." We have the ridiculous "blatantly obvious" comment when the forum has loads of posts from confused members.

Personally I don't expect perfection. I don't even expect every change to the game to be to my taste. What I would appreciate is the Devs respecting their members opinions a bit more.

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Re: Does SM need to bring back the ability to report cheats with a support ticket?

...And if you have no concrete proof' date=' if thee is any doubt at all, then really you should not be reporting someone as a cheat or a suspicion. What if you accidently got an honest manager kicked out just because you felt they were stepping on your toes a little?....

I do agree with you that it's good that you now have to justify your reporting of an illegal transfer...[/quote']

First off all, there is no improvement in the new system with regards to having to justify your reporting. It's no different than in the old system.

With regards to the new system being better because you have to have a proof, and suspicion is not enough. And how is that? So if you report a transfer that you think is illegal - how does it make your suspicion a concrete proof? How is it different from reporting other types of cheating? Your report is ALWAYS a suspicion, and you try to back it up the best you can. Ultimately it's SM's job to verify you SUSPICION and take actions.

As a matter of fact, many of the types of cheating that you can't report now are much worse than somebody dumping one of his players to his buddy for cheap.

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Re: Does SM need to bring back the ability to report cheats with a support ticket?

First off all' date=' there is no improvement in the new system with regards to having to justify your reporting. It's no different than in the old system.[/quote']

True, if comparing the old illegal transfer cheating tickets with the new system. But, it is a vast improvement that now someone can't just click any old transfer as an illegal transfer without having to provide any justification. That change is a vast improvement as it cuts down on unnessary work for SM considerably and forces people to actually think about what they are insinuating.

With regards to the new system being better because you have to have a proof' date=' and suspicion is not enough. And how is that? So if you report a transfer that you think is illegal - how does it make your suspicion a concrete proof? How is it different from reporting other types of cheating? Your report is ALWAYS a suspicion, [b']and you try to back it up the best you can[/b]. Ultimately it's SM's job to verify you SUSPICION and take actions.

And so what is 'backing it up as best you can' if not an attempt at 'proof'? Previously people would just click the 'report illegal transfer' button without any justification whatsoever. They were perhaps jealous, had no grasp on the prices certain players commanded, or whatever, but basically what they were doing was saying this is cheating, a charge that could get someone banned, without providing any evidence to back it up.

I'll admit, this was not so when creating an illegal transfer ticket, and agree that in that regard the old and new systems are the same. You are also probably right in that SM have methods or verifying from behind the scenes whether cheating was going on that we could never see ourselves (corresponding log-in times, IP addresses, etc.) and so at times it was maybe impossible for us to provide concrete proof but for SM to establish so much.

But, there are also many ways that you can actually prove yourself that a transfer was illegal and I disagree that people should be able to just throw any old transfer at SM with an accusation of cheating without some form of justification. Perhaps we're saying the same thing here, and I'm just also incorporating the need to provide justification when marking a transfer as illegal as an improvement?

As a matter of fact' date=' many of the types of cheating that you can't report now are much worse than somebody dumping one of his players to his buddy for cheap.[/quote']

I agree. Been one of my main points from the start. As things stand now, in general, for many of the reasons listed below it is a step backwards and a win for the cheats. No argument there.

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Re: Methods to report in-game cheating

I sincerely hope that the SM Devs do not see this thread as an attack on the changes made, but merely as a means of the community providing specific feedback on specific changes; as as I have said before, the other changes made recently on the whole have been very good.

As one other member of the forum did point out though, John's response did come across as being very defensive, but I think maybe the time has come for SM to acknowledge that we as customers are not happy with these changes as they stand, and that SM maybe need to admit they have got this one wrong, even if the intentions were good, which of course, they were.

The poll so far kind of tells the story, that no-one is happy with the changes, with over 82% feeling the changes are for the worse. I'm sure everyone would be appreciative if SM could clarify what the position is further on this issue, be it that the system will stay as it is (further disgruntling customers), or if further changes are in the pipeline to imminently solve the issues raised by these recent changes.

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Re: Does SM need to bring back the ability to report cheats with a support ticket?

...But' date=' it is a vast improvement that now someone can't just click any old transfer as an illegal transfer without having to provide any justification... Previously people would just click the 'report illegal transfer' button without any justification whatsoever...

[/quote']

I didn't know it was possible before. I haven't tried hitting that button, so I assumed that it was just like creating a cheating ticket where you had to provide your justification. Sorry for misunderstanding, we're on the same page then.

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Re: Methods to report in-game cheating

Hesse has already done a great job of challenging all the things I disagreed with in Johns post.

SM is a great game. Lots of the recent changes are really positive. However for me Devs always get really defensive even in the face of fair criticism.

You're human and not perfect. No problem. But rather than saying " You're right we're sorry' date=' perhaps we should have made an announcement so people knew what was going on." We have the ridiculous "blatantly obvious" comment when the forum has loads of posts from confused members.

Personally I don't expect perfection. I don't even expect every change to the game to be to my taste. What I would appreciate is the Devs respecting their members opinions a bit more.[/quote']

It's called the beautiful baby syndrome - 'it's my baby, so it must be beautiful, right?'.

I work in software development and developers are notoriously defensive of their 'babies'. They are loathe to accept criticism, even though it's - mostly - constructive.

It's why developers 'hate' testers. Because a tester's job is to find the bugs in the developer's 'beautiful' creation.

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Re: Methods to report in-game cheating

Sorry about the delayed reply Stuart, although i imagine i wont say anything different to what has already been said.

Im usually the bloke who defends SM, but on this occasion along with a few others issues ( regularity of reserve GC's , not reserve GC's themselves ) i think they have made a large blooper, and for what reasons ?

Id love for them to justify this move, i cant logically think why this move would be taken...... it simply doesn't improve the game at all, yeah it will cut out some pointless tickets which they dont have to sift through, but that single benefit is not worth the massive negatives of this addition.....

Sometimes, as we all know, detailed information or some dialect in between a customer and a SM dev is integral to resolving certain issues be it reporting cheaters, or discussing a individual case that involves themselves.

This is a pish poor effort from SM, reducing work and ultimately cost is the sole motivator in this addition, for years many have complained ( and rightly so ) about the level of customer interaction and the quality of it. Now this is certainly the nail in the coffin......

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Re: Methods to report in-game cheating

It would be interesting to get some feedback in writing from the one person who stated that they thought the system as it stands is fine, just to get some perspective. Still no further word from the Devs I see also........

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Re: Does SM need to bring back the ability to report cheats with a support ticket?

SM will always be open to abuse from cheats unless cheats are properly dealt with.

The new reporting system is by the by if SM just keep sending a template response saying they'll look into it or the transfer would trigger the CPS. You see tons of managers with sub 40 rep in GCs and if you report cheating in GCs the transfers are usually reversed but the managers rep stays exactly the same. It makes a mockery of whatever system's in place.

I think SM need ways of reporting every type of cheating. Currently you can report illegal transfers and multiple accounts. Isn't the first a specific case of the second?

I totally agree with you here Stuart, i remember someone buying Aguero for a silly swap and then one manager left. I even reported it but nothing happened. I think Soccer Manager is soft in cases like this.

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Re: Methods to report in-game cheating

In good news' date=' a ticket that I reported over the weekend has seen deals reversed. First one since the system changed. :)[/quote']

What were the circumstances, and if it wasn't on a specific transfer, what did you do?

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Re: Methods to report in-game cheating

Was a specific transfer sadly. But it was two relatively new managers to the game with similar names alleging from the same country.

Transfer of an old player for a whopping £17m. Looked very obvious.

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Re: Methods to report in-game cheating

Disappointed that a request to investigate multiple accounts email sent to SM gets a "raise a ticket for illegal transfers" response.

Three managers, all with the same name, all sign up within seconds of each other in the same setup... not transfers done yet, but suspicious enough to warrant investigation. :(

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Re: Methods to report in-game cheating

didn't see this thread as i looked in the wrong place, and opened my own ticket on the subject. now i've move my ticket and discovered this thread... ho hum.

Anyway, i've added to the clear poll winner - new system sucks, bring back support tickets for cheating.

Today, i got a PM from a player who said 'i sell you my best players 'iniesta' anyone you want at cost price, if you buy me a game world'

Someone tell me how i'm ment to report that - illegal transfer? LOL

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=75421

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Re: Methods to report in-game cheating

Have a strong suspision of someone cheating in a gameworld I'm in. However, I'm curious to what this "action taken against your account" means. I want to report this guy as he is selling Fabianski for £15million. Which as it is at the start of the season, will probably mean the majority, if not all of the funds available to West Brom. A side which has done no deals externally or internally.

But if SM see this as me pulling a fast one, I'll have to face the "action" on my account. Which I do not want, obviously. I understand why this feature has been brought in, as jealous kids will be punished for their pointless tickets. But what do you do if their is a risk of your account being tarnished?

Ah well. Guess will have to let this guy go about his business:o

On the plus side, he did lose his opening game 2-0 to an unmanaged Blackpool :)

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Guest drseanfitz

Re: Methods to report in-game cheating

Have a strong suspision of someone cheating in a gameworld I'm in. However' date=' I'm curious to what this "action taken against your account" means. I want to report this guy as he is selling Fabianski for £15million. Which as it is at the start of the season, will probably mean the majority, if not all of the funds available to West Brom. A side which has done no deals externally or internally.

But if SM see this as me pulling a fast one, I'll have to face the "action" on my account. Which I do not want, obviously. I understand why this feature has been brought in, as jealous kids will be punished for their pointless tickets. But what do you do if their is a risk of your account being tarnished?

Ah well. Guess will have to let this guy go about his business:o

On the plus side, he did lose his opening game 2-0 to an unmanaged Blackpool :)[/quote']

click on the illegal transfer button if you suspect it's dodgy. If SM find nothing wrong with it there'll be no comeback

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Re: Methods to report in-game cheating

click on the illegal transfer button if you suspect it's dodgy. If SM find nothing wrong with it there'll be no comeback

So is it more for "serial" reporters, that do it over and over then?

Thanks for the heads up ;)

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