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Stuart H

The Politics Thread

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Re: The Politics Thread

in a time of such economic meltdown, they shouldn't object for the sake of it, and its not the objection towards the cuts that frustrates me, i wouldnt care if they suggested other areas or amounts to cut, but they openly stated we should continue spending !!!

In regards to the bank bonuses, its gone to far, were in a lose lose situation. if we tax them to much they leave and take with them billions from the economy, if we dont its a moral injustice and mocks every single working person in the UK. Personally taking this into consideration we should just tax them the most we can without shoving them out, we really need the world to make a decision on this, and all stick by it, so they cant leave one country who have imposed a tax to one who hasnt.

Also regarding trident, Dave could you dig up some facts or sources in regards to the contracts Labour drew up and how much we would have to pay to pull out of them too ? No worries if ya cant be bothered, im just guessing you no where to look :o

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Re: The Politics Thread

Funny you mentioned earlier China as a military threat earlier - I'd say they are not a threat in a military way - far from it in fact' date=' but they are a threat under the system you so love, it used to be Isreal that used to have all the banking/financial clout here and in the States, but in the last 5 years its China thats colonising everyones financal systems, and in Brazil and Africa, China are actually colonising the countries through industry, a bit like we did in the 1800's[/quote']

Now you have been playing about in that time machine of yours again Eh Pluto ? :P

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Re: The Politics Thread

It would have happened Stuart. Labour can't make shed-loads of cuts right before an election. They had to give themselves a chance of being re-elected.

I'm not talking the few months before the election... Labour had years to correct the mistakes they made without the threat of an election and did absolutely nothing. Besides' date=' the Tories have made some pretty drastic cuts and it's clear from the (admittedly tiny) sample on this thread that they've turned some people in their favour.

As ever its not quite as simple as the BBC and the lefty's amongst us would have you believe, from memory the subs are slowly becoming un-serviceable and need to be redesigned / built that takes 20 years. The total cost of the project is nearer to 40 billion and protects countless jobs in the British Nuclear industry oh and of course other countries are a lot less likely to start a nuclear war with us. Same old Labour misinformation and rabble raising I'm afraid :rolleyes:

I was just remembering back to stuff I was reading in May :o The jobs point is good but no doubt it'll be contracted abroad or to immigrants with lesser wage demands...

I get the feeling I sound horribly xenophobic now which I assure you isn't the case :D I can't understand why some sort of cap hasn't been put on immigration (EU doesn't help but there are a lot of immigrants from non-EU countries) when the people coming in aren't skilled in the areas we require workers and have similar attributes to those thousands who are unemployed.

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Re: The Politics Thread

We don't need the subs or the bombs

We do need to toughen up thou on real threats - Ie money spent on wet squads to get rid of real potential leader threats ect and we need to get out of Afganistan' date=' its turning into another Vitenam war ie unwinable[/quote']

Fool...tactical nuclear bomb ( just a little one ) on Iran ( not the oil :eek:) the Pakistan border, and Syria job done :)

Also regarding trident' date=' Dave could you dig up some facts or sources in regards to the contracts Labour drew up and how much we would have to pay to pull out of them too ? No worries if ya cant be bothered, im just guessing you no where to look :o[/quote']

There is a white paper available on line Adam regarding Trident also Janes did some stuff if i remember right?...I'm off now, but I'll dig it out tomorrow. :)

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Re: The Politics Thread

I get the feeling I sound horribly xenophobic now which I assure you isn't the case :D I can't understand why some sort of cap hasn't been put on immigration (EU doesn't help but there are a lot of immigrants from non-EU countries) when the people coming in aren't skilled in the areas we require workers and have similar attributes to those thousands who are unemployed.

Why Stuart' date=' because of the soppy Lib Dems and the dreadful welfare state that stops unemployed UK workers ( some ok Simon) getting off their lazy butts and taking a job. When we get rid of those Lib jokers at the next election and form a majority government in our own right, we can start the real work of social engineering by ending immigration and benefit reform........Hunger will help motivate people B)

[/color']

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Re: The Politics Thread

I'm not talking the few months before the election... Labour had years to correct the mistakes they made without the threat of an election and did absolutely nothing. Besides' date=' the Tories have made some pretty drastic cuts and it's clear from the (admittedly tiny) sample on this thread that they've turned some people in their favour.

I was just remembering back to stuff I was reading in May :o The jobs point is good but no doubt it'll be contracted abroad or to immigrants with lesser wage demands...

I get the feeling I sound horribly xenophobic now which I assure you isn't the case :D I can't understand why some sort of cap hasn't been put on immigration (EU doesn't help but there are a lot of immigrants from non-EU countries) when the people coming in aren't skilled in the areas we require workers and have similar attributes to those thousands who are unemployed.[/quote']

I think the other way on this one - I think all borders should be open and people should have the freedom to migrate to wherever the work is

But for that to happen we would need a total mindset change in the insuler thinking we have at the moment about land and what gives people power, also we would need a world wide economic system not the little ones we have at the moment which leads to a lot of the problems in the first place

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Re: The Politics Thread

I think the other way on this one - I think all borders should be open and people should have the freedom to migrate to wherever the work is

But for that to happen we would need a total mindset change in the insuler thinking we have at the moment about land and what gives people power' date=' also we would need a world wide economic system not the little ones we have at the moment which leads to a lot of the problems in the first place[/quote']

Thing is, people don't migrate to where the work is. There aren't any jobs going in the UK, in fact thousands are getting laid off, yet still I bet the UK is one of the highest ranked destinations for emigration in the EU. People go elsewhere for a better standard of living. Poles coming to Britain to work for minimum wage still get far more than they would in their home country. Despite this, the thousands unemployed in the UK won't even contemplate moving abroad as the standard of living here is better, or where it's equal there're also no jobs :o

I'd hate it if we end up as a state of the EU with free movement between every nation. I'm not particularly patriotic or into national pride but I don't want some bloke from nation X with lesser but still adequate qualifications than me taking up the jobs in the UK as he'll work the same job for a few thousand less per annum. The EU's trying to turn Europe into a parody of the US but, IMO, it's making a bit of a hash of it, or at least has done in the past which doesn't particularly instil me with confidence.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Also regarding trident' date=' Dave could you dig up some facts or sources in regards to the contracts Labour drew up and how much we would have to pay to pull out of them too ? No worries if ya cant be bothered, im just guessing you no where to look :o[/quote']

http://www.mod.uk/nr/rdonlyres/ac00dd79-76d6-4fe3-91a1-6a56b03c092f/0/defencewhitepaper2006_cm6994.pdf

Heres the 2006 white paper that presents the case for and against Trident, its projected costs, alternatives and the UK's likely future threats. :)

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2010/11/05/revealed-building-one-new-aircraft-carrier-would-have-cost-300m-more-than-building-two-86908-22693697/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB40001424052748703805704575594440335553292.html

Two articles covering the release by George of a confidential letter from BAE Systems to Dave detailing how the new carriers will cost 5.25 billion, whilst cancelling one ( after adding penalties) would cost £5.49billion. On top of this of course the cost to British industry ( Scottish jobs) and our international reputation is huge, so its a bit of a no brainier really, and one could only think that anyone calling for the cancellation of the ship must therefore have no brain...;) eh? pointy ears

There's tons of stuff chronicling the Labour mismanagement of the MOD from the disgraceful cancellation of additional helicopters,to the lack of body armour, to the mounting costs of the Typhoon (Euro fighter) and the £3.3bn black hole caused by the chronic overspending at the MoD...Bloody useless lot that they are B)

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Re: The Politics Thread

yawn.......'Ma da and ma mammie' date=' and ma granda and granma huv always voted Labour, so.....

plus of course, all the bunce you got from the weak Labour government, prescriptions, university fees, ridiculously high welfare benefits....etc etc :rolleyes:[/color']

I hope that wasnt aimed at me or im gunna kick off

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Re: The Politics Thread

I hope that wasnt aimed at me or im gunna kick off

Well we wouldn't want that would we ? so in that case no.

That said perhaps you can explain where I have got it wrong ... You see Nathan ' date='I just don't understand the voters of Scotland. Lets face it the Labour years did bugger all for the Scots people aside from making their rich richer, the poor poorer and the whole nation more dependent on English cash (£11.3bn P/A) than they have ever been.

So in my opinion there's only three logical reasons for voting Labour..

a) your job depends on high government expenditure i.e. you're a civil servant etc

B) your on a hand-out from the taxpayers of the country

c) you're stupid.

Of course by your, I don't mean you but Scots in general, but you must admit you could put a monkey up for election with a red rossette and it would still win most seats in Scotland!...:)

[/color']

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Re: The Politics Thread

Well we wouldn't want that would we ? so in that case no.

That said perhaps you can explain where I have got it wrong ... You see Nathan ' date='I just don't understand the voters of Scotland. Lets face it the Labour years did bugger all for the Scots people aside from making their rich richer, the poor poorer and the whole nation more dependent on English cash (£11.3bn P/A) than they have ever been.

So in my opinion there's only three logical reasons for voting Labour..

a) your job depends on high government expenditure i.e. you're a civil servant etc

B) your on a hand-out from the taxpayers of the country

c) you're stupid.

Of course by your, I don't mean you but Scots in general, but you must admit you could put a monkey up for election with a red rossette and it would still win most seats in Scotland!...:)

[/color']

I was more on about the ma mammie voted for em i dont really find that amusing?

I vote labour beacause they think more about the poorer people i aint in the riches at all infact i aint got a job at moment but dont worry i aint gettin money off u lads i only lost it last month and im on my way back into employment. Torries are makin rich people richer ect and i caint be botherd bringing up all those fact things all ino is that by 2015 i can see david cameron and crew gone.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I think the other way on this one - I think all borders should be open and people should have the freedom to migrate to wherever the work is

But for that to happen we would need a total mindset change in the insuler thinking we have at the moment about land and what gives people power' date=' also we would need a world wide economic system not the little ones we have at the moment which leads to a lot of the problems in the first place[/quote']

....By the 2150s, the United Earth government was coterminous with all major settlements made by humanity. This included all territory on Earth itself after all previous human governments united into one organization. United Earth controlled all of the Sol system, but in the 2150s, they had begun to spread to other nearby star systems. Humanity's spread beyond the Sol system, however, had been largely hindered by their stronger Vulcan allies for the past half century, as they did not feel that Humans were strong enough to face the many threats beyond their home star system...

Been reading your Star trek annuals again Spaceman ? :P

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Re: The Politics Thread

Been reading your Star trek annuals again Spaceman ? :P

Nah just annoyed at small thinking of the human race in general, when things could be so much easier for everyone if people put petty grudges from 50+ years ago to one side

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Re: The Politics Thread

Nah just annoyed at small thinking of the human race in general' date=' when things could be so much easier for everyone if people put petty grudges from 50+ years ago to one side[/quote']

Dreaming China..humanity never has and never will work that way, its what sets us aside from the beasts of the field :)

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Re: The Politics Thread

Dreaming China..humanity never has and never will work that way' date=' its what sets us aside from the beasts of the field :)[/color']

Many 'beasts' are territorial... which is essentially what the human race is, just on a much larger scale :)

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Re: The Politics Thread

Many 'beasts' are territorial... which is essentially what the human race is' date=' just on a much larger scale :)[/quote']

Quite right, by not as vindictive or vengeful ...mind you my mother in law had a cat once who was a total git and launched surprise attacks when I went in her house....B)

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Re: The Politics Thread

Quite right' date=' by not as vindictive or vengeful ...mind you my mother in law had a cat once who was a total git and launched surprise attacks when I went in her house....B)[/color']

How long did it take her to train the cat? :P

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Re: The Politics Thread

I'd love to know how many Tory votes were 'lent' to the Lib Dems, especially given the level of Conservative campaigning in the build up, or lack thereof.

Difficult to draw much in the way of conclusions from this I think, it's a pretty atypical situation in the wake of all the tuition fees bobbins and Woolas-gate.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Oh dear Dave.:P

Labour win the Oldham East and Saddleworth by election with the Conservatives coming in 3rd with nearly 7000 votes less than the 2nd placed Lib Dems.

Wow, Oldham east huh? Your side looks powerful on this one.

Both my parents follow Labour. I follow conservative and my brothers know nothing. Its fun most of the time, but this oldham east keeps coming up for them.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Whats everyones views on Nick Cleggs decision to reform the lords?

I think its a good idea. Get rid of the peers who dont care in place of Lords who will respect their role. I personally believe that the Lords should be fully appointed. Completely gets rid of hereditary peers. Then if it serves the people they should be accountable to the people. You hear bad things that members of the Lords have done and they keep their title? Why?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Whats everyones views on Nick Cleggs decision to reform the lords?

I think its a good idea. Get rid of the peers who dont care in place of Lords who will respect their role. I personally believe that the Lords should be fully appointed. Completely gets rid of hereditary peers. Then if it serves the people they should be accountable to the people. You hear bad things that members of the Lords have done and they keep their title? Why?

I agree with you however, all hereditary peers have now technically gone, the 90 or so that were kept on in the 1997 reform were made life peers because they actually cared for the role. However I don't think that the Lords should be elected by the public because it will give the Lords more powers, I think I'm right in thinking that they can only reject Parliamentary topics three times? (I'm not quite sure about it but I think that's right) But if they were elected it would just be another HoC, but I do think that the public should be able to contest the appointment of some, the Lord that comes to mind straight away for me is Lord Triesman, would someone please tell me what he has done apart from being a very bad cheif exec of the FA?

I'm also interested in people's opinions of the new minimum price for alcohol? It was meant to decrease binge drinking but it means a can of larger can be sold for as little as 40p. I'm 17, I don't drink that much, only socially with my friends but I'm not usually the raging drunk, but 40p a can isn't going to put anyone off drinking. A 4 pack usually costs around £6 so thats £1.50 a can, if it went up to £2 per can then that would make me think twice.

I truly think Labour are laughing, in my opinion the coalition keep shooting themselves in the foot, I'm a conservative, but even I have to admit, I can't see this government having a good reputatino with the electorate by the time 2015 comes around. Then again this might juist increase political participation in this country?

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Re: The Politics Thread

I agree with you however' date=' all hereditary peers have now technically gone, the 90 or so that were kept on in the 1997 reform were made life peers because they actually cared for the role. However I don't think that the Lords should be elected by the public because it will give the Lords more powers, I think I'm right in thinking that they can only reject Parliamentary topics three times? (I'm not quite sure about it but I think that's right) But if they were elected it would just be another HoC, but I do think that the public should be able to contest the appointment of some, the Lord that comes to mind straight away for me is Lord Triesman, would someone please tell me what he has done apart from being a very bad cheif exec of the FA?

I'm also interested in people's opinions of the new minimum price for alcohol? It was meant to decrease binge drinking but it means a can of larger can be sold for as little as 40p. I'm 17, I don't drink that much, only socially with my friends but I'm not usually the raging drunk, but 40p a can isn't going to put anyone off drinking. A 4 pack usually costs around £6 so thats £1.50 a can, if it went up to £2 per can then that would make me think twice.

I truly think Labour are laughing, in my opinion the coalition keep shooting themselves in the foot, I'm a conservative, but even I have to admit, I can't see this government having a good reputatino with the electorate by the time 2015 comes around. Then again this might juist increase political participation in this country?[/quote']

Another stupid thing by this goverment putting my booze up just gunna make people want to nick it well its making my fingers move about it cost enough as it is!

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