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Re: The Politics Thread

@Longnose (Dave) - We can argue back and forth but we're most likely won't agree with most things. I'm gonna be busy for the next week or two, so I can't reply to your two posts right now. But I'm gonna say a few things.

I find it quite rich of you to accuse my post of containing "half truths and inaccuracies" but yours is full of them. You've been using sources which have been proven to be incorrect and extremely one sided to the Zionist cause. Since new light have emerged on the history of Israel in the mid 70's, the well-believed narrative has been debunked. Have a look at the work of "new historians" such as Avi Shlaim, Ilan Pappe, Simha Flapan, Tom Segev etc. (just to name a few). According to Shlaim:

  • The official version said that Britain tried to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state; the New Historians claimed that it tried to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state

  • The official version said that the Palestinians fled their homes of their own free will; the New Historians said that the refugees were chased out or expelled

  • The official version said that the balance of power was in favour of the Arabs; the New Historians said that Israel had the advantage both in manpower and in arms

  • The official version said that the Arabs had a coordinated plan to destroy Israel; the New Historians said that the Arabs were divided

  • The official version said that Arab intransigence prevented peace; the New Historians said that Israel is primarily to blame for the "dead end"

But since you've shoved your head far up Mother Israel's arse that you can't see the forest for the trees, you'll most likely refuse to accept these facts and blame the Arabs/Palestinians who are in fact the victims of this awful ethnic and religious cleansing, and see Israel as the good guys.

Then you mentioned the screening operations as an attempt to round up members of an terrorist organization?! Haha, that's laughable. That shows how much you know about the conflict....... you know nothing Dave. It was evident that they targeted civilians. Let's not forget the other killings, bombings and massacres committed by Israeli groups such as Irgun, Haganah (who later became the IDF), Lehi etc.

The indigenous Palestinian population were driven out of their homes in 1948 and were forced into ghettos were life was tough and they had less freedom. They were left cash strapped as their properties, money, jewelry and businesses were taken away from them. Those from Lydda and Ramle were forced to go on a death march, which were similar to what the Nazi's did to the Jews in the Second World War. Women were raped and beaten up, the men and boys were slaughtered one by one, and they were humiliated all because of what? Zionism, what a horrible ideology.

I know how much you loathe the IRA. If they did the same to the UK as the Zionists did to Palestine, how would you react? Now be honest Dave, you wouldn't be a Mahatma Gandhi and advocate non-violent resistance. You'd probably form or join a guerrilla group and engage in guerrilla welfare, would you?

Look, I acknowledge that the Arab's did commit crimes and I don't agree with some of their tactics like you do. But that doesn't mean that you should overlook the crimes committed by the Israeli’s, which are even worse than them. The biggest one of them all is the ethnic cleansing, the constant harassment and violence towards the Palestinians which they've suffered for a long time. Israel took their land away from them, killed their family members and when they resist, they're labeled as the aggressors. All they want is the suffering to stop. 66 years of hurt is enough. When will the world listen?

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Re: The Politics Thread First of all R.I.P to the guy that died in Woolwich,if he was beheaded (can't watch the supposed video that exists) that's a horrible way to die and of course noone ever ever

Re: The Politics Thread Can't help but agree with the sentiments that the IRA, and Irish people and Catholics did NOT get the kind of demonisation that Islam gets today. And they were far more succes

Re: The Politics Thread You post up the article involving one case and arguing on that basis that NHS isn't great. So you are generalising as you are implying that is all they pay for all year long.

Re: The Politics Thread

The term self loathing Jew comes to mind..

Hahahahaha! You're really are a joke Dave.

I'm against pedophilic priests' date=' does that make me a self loathing Chrisitan?

It's also worth pointing out that Max Blumenthal and those new historians I've mentioned are Jewish. Are those self loathing Jews, Dave?

A question that should perhaps be directed to the Hamas terrorists who continue to hide their rocket launchers, command centers and weapons dumps in densely populated urban areas.

This comment is similar to women who get blamed for getting raped for wearing short skirts. The victim is getting the blame!

Honestly, why on earth are do you believe Israeli propaganda for? Oh that's right, you've got your head right up in mother Israel's arse. Those who believe the crap sprouted out by those Nazi-like militias really need a reality check.

It's been evident that the IDF have been deliberately targeting civilian homes, hospitals, schools, cafes, Mosques, water and electricity supplies etc. The UN have found evidence that Israel haven't been abiding by the law (no surprises there then). On 12th July, the UN said that the 77% of the Palestinians killed were civilians, two-thirds of those were women and children.

Don't care much about Israel or Palestine and if they fancy fighting each other for another 50 years' date=' go ahead.

As often with these kind of things though, the truth will lie somewhere in the middle of your two standpoints. Neither are saints.[/quote']

Woah, that's a dangerous stance to take. Even if you don't care, you can't deny the fact Israel are oppressing the Palestinians by operating an apartheid state.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Woah' date=' that's a dangerous stance to take. Even if you don't care, you can't deny the fact Israel are oppressing the Palestinians by operating an apartheid state.[/quote']

I don't care as it's been simply been going on for too long. Dulled my senses. As I have said above, things will neither be as black as you paint them nor as white as longnose paints them. I respect your enthusiasm though.

However, I find it all rather childish that you two (and likely the parties involved in this conflict) were going back 50-60 years in history in order to determine who threw the first stone. This is hardly going to help, is it?

For me, there is only one thing clear. Almost every single conflict takes place in a certain region/corridor of the world spanning from North/East Africa to the Middle East and in all these areas Muslim population is not only very present but also heavily involved. This is not a coincidence and the explanation as to why I strongly dislike Islam. Ani hit the nail on the head with his post really.

And no, I am not a follower of any religion. If anything, I am a Deist and not even so sure about that one ;)

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Re: The Politics Thread

Personally I don't really like Hamas, not my favourite organization or close; however, I hate how the Isrealis are attacking Gaza, helped by the Americans (and Canadians) and using the excuse of "self-defence". That strike and killing of 4 boys in the beach in Gaza is not "self-defence".

Good thing they at least have a 5-hour ceasefire.

Better than nothing.

It really is a battle of swords (Gaza) and guns (Isreal).

Israel has a clear advantage.

I'm neutral, but I have clear, and way more sympathy for the Palestinians.

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Re: The Politics Thread

@Longnose (Dave) - We can argue back and forth ears of hurt is enough. When will the world listen?

Whilst i am tempted to offer a very different narrative to the one that you so naively offer' date=' i happen to agree, there is little point in me and you exchanging poisonous barbs. I note your acknowledgement that...[/color']

... that the Arab's did commit crimes and I don't agree with some of their tactics like you do...

....that said i will admit that i'm disappointed you wouldn't list just what crimes you do find acceptable?..rape ?, murder?, suicide bombings? missile attacks? but still...so instead i pose you this question.

What in your (opinion) would it take to solve the Arab/ Israeli problem?..

XnO4gy8dQIc

The UN agency for Palestinian refugees is investigating the discovery of 20 rockets hidden in one of its vacant schools in the Gaza Strip.

The UNRWA condemned the incident as a "flagrant violation" of international law' date=' adding that the rockets had been removed and the "relative parties" had been informed.

Israel regularly accuses Hamas and other militant groups in Gaza of using civilian installations to store and rockets, including during the current conflict that began on 8 July.

Gaza militants have fired hundreds of rockets since Israel began air strikes and naval shelling in which more than 220 Palestinian have been killed.

Of the thousands fleeing the Israeli bombardment, about 22,000 have taken refuge in UNRWA schools.

"Yesterday, in the course of the regular inspection of its premises, UNRWA discovered approximately 20 rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip," the agency said. " UNRWA strongly condemns the group or groups responsible for placing the weapons in one of its installations," it continued. This is a flagrant violation of the inviolability of its premises under international law."

[/quote']

Arab leaders said Wednesday they will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state, blaming it for a lack of progress in the Mideast peace process.

Personally I don't really like Hamas' date=' not my favourite organization or close; however, I hate how the Isrealis are attacking Gaza, helped by the Americans (and Canadians) and using the excuse of "self-defence". That strike and killing of 4 boys in the beach in Gaza is not "self-defence".

Good thing they at least have a 5-hour ceasefire.

Better than nothing.

It really is a battle of swords (Gaza) and guns (Isreal).

Israel has a clear advantage.

I'm neutral, but I have clear, and way more sympathy for the Palestinians.[/quote']

..as you appear to want to join in this debate, tell me why me have these feeling? ( i won't bite ;)) why not show me just how you came to this conclusion? and why? :)...before you answer have you watched Safir's video?

just seen on CNN...Hamas shot it down! :eek:

..according to the Independent ( and teh BBC) it was the Zionists( SORRY I MEAN JEWS) ;)

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Re: The Politics Thread

..as you appear to want to join in this debate' date=' tell me why me have these feeling? ( i won't bite ;)) why not show me just how you came to this conclusion? and why? :)...before you answer have you watched Safir's video?[/color']

yes, I did watch Safir's video.

surely those pictures are false, but similar occurrences are happening to people (in Gaza) every day outside of the reporters eye.

Such as, the killing of the 3 Palestinian kids who were feeding pigeons yesterday, or the killing of the 4 kids on the Gaza beach.

The Gazans have had way more casualties (anyways, they don't have their own Iron Dome)

and those are some of the reasons I have more sympathy for them.

Another is the actions of the government of the country I reside in.

As Israel leads a ground attack on Gaza, Canada has just shown support all alongside by just saying all over again that they support the actions of "self-defence" by the Israelis.

Even the United Nations have condemned and disagreed against the invasion of Gaza. Even the Americans have tried to ask Israel to find a way to limit civilian casualties. But not Canada.

And I have hated my government for the last while, and even more now.

This problem seems to be one that will last very long, as the sides can never seem to agree on anything.

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Re: The Politics Thread

yes' date=' I did watch Safir's video.

surely those pictures are false, but similar occurrences are happening to people (in Gaza) every day outside of the reporters eye.

Such as, the killing of the 3 Palestinian kids who were feeding pigeons yesterday, or the killing of the 4 kids on the Gaza beach.

The Gazans have had way more casualties (anyways, they don't have their own Iron Dome)

and those are some of the reasons I have more sympathy for them.

Another is the actions of the government of the country I reside in.

As Israel leads a ground attack on Gaza, Canada has just shown support all alongside by just saying all over again that they support the actions of "self-defence" by the Israelis.

Even the United Nations have condemned and disagreed against the invasion of Gaza. Even the Americans have tried to ask Israel to find a way to limit civilian casualties. But not Canada.

And I have hated my government for the last while, and even more now.

This problem seems to be one that will last very long, as the sides can never seem to agree on anything.[/quote']

With respect Allan, thats as limp as last week lettuce, and demonstrates just the childlike naivety the Hamas terrorists rely on to foster misplaced sympathy in the West. Lets be clear, Hamas have no regard for the people they claim to be defending. They have no qualms about siting their hundreds of missile batteries within schools, mosques hospitals and such like. Its whats known as the dead baby strategy.

Simply put, they force the IDF to kill as many civilians as possible by deliberately locating legitimate military targets as close to civilians as they possibly can. Israel, which are vulnerable to international opinion are then placed in the no win position of either foregoing attacking such sites or causing civilian causalities. The more deaths they cause the greater the pressure the Israeli's face, as i said did you watch Saf's video?, what an indictment of todays ill informed internet generation. Doubt what i am saying? I'd let you be the judge..

"For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: 'We desire death like you desire life.'"

.... Fathi Hammad, Hamas member of the Palestinian Legislative Council:

With such clear indifference on Hamas's part i think its a testimony to the skill of the IDF pilots and commanders that ( when you consider the population density of the Gaza strip) there are so few civilian causalities. Of course there will be exceptions to this, but be sure this is no wanton massacre of civilians, Although watch this space for Iman Hazards or Jew hater Halstinhos next shrill cry about the Zionist campaign of terror on the Palestinian pigeon population, Twitter will explode with images of orphaned pigeon chicks staring mournfully at their bombed nests .:rolleyes:

What a genius Vladimir Putin is.....298 ppl

have their blood on your hands/the hands of separatists he supports for creating a senseless conflict that's led to this completely avoidable tragedy....all this by annexing Crimea' date=' disregarding Ukraine's sovereignty.....80 children for Christ's sake![/quote']

...Whoever done it I'm certain it was unintentional, lets face it aside from the loss of life its a PR disaster. And as i have said here before i have little time for the relentless Eastward expansion of the EU or indeed the Ukrainians as a people. Let the Russians do with as they please in my opinion.

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Re: The Politics Thread

@but taking Crimea prevented the US from doing anything. The recent Malaysian plane was a victim of Ukraine's missile which intended to kill Putin, whose plane was about to fly over in 30 or so minutes. Pretty much from what I read the Ukrainians shot down the Malaysian plane, in an attempt to hit Putin... Jesus Christ...

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Re: The Politics Thread

Please stick to your random thread and stop spouting nonsense.

I agree with longnose, it must have been unintentional by whoever did it. The logical answer is the pro-Russian separatist. "Their" airspace and they wouldn't have a clue how to control such an air defense unit and what kind of plane is up there and are no strangers to shooting down Ukrainian planes.

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Re: The Politics Thread

@but taking Crimea prevented the US from doing anything. The recent Malaysian plane was a victim of Ukraine's missile which intended to kill Putin' date=' whose plane was about to fly over in 30 or so minutes. Pretty much from what I read the Ukrainians shot down the Malaysian plane, in an attempt to hit Putin... Jesus Christ...[/quote']

agreeing with the others.. it was unintentional no doubt about that..

I think, like the majority, that is was the pro-Russian separatists... it's pretty sure that the missiles were launched from rebel/Russian controlled territory.

As far as I know Putin is Russian... and all European airlines have avoided that airspace..

conspiracy theories everywhere

remember, Russia has given the rebels these kind of weapons in the BUK missiles which ultimately killed the poor 298 people on the plane and devastated the families.

I have heard stuff about dialogue between 2 Russians discussing the shooting thinking that it was a Ukrainian plane...

also a Facebook post by a rebel leader warned the Ukranians after the shooting of the plane to not bring their planes through "their" region.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Simply put' date=' they force the IDF to kill as many civilians as possible by deliberately [u']locating legitimate military targets as close to civilians as they possibly can.[/u] Israel, which are vulnerable to international opinion are then placed in the no win position of either foregoing attacking such sites or causing civilian causalities.

To those doubtful, this is an actual military strategy repeated throughout history - using civilian human shields. Latin American drug cartels favor this strategy too.

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Re: The Politics Thread

@but taking Crimea prevented the US from doing anything. The recent Malaysian plane was a victim of Ukraine's missile which intended to kill Putin' date=' whose plane was about to fly over in 30 or so minutes. Pretty much from what I read the Ukrainians shot down the Malaysian plane, in an attempt to hit Putin... Jesus Christ...[/quote']

Story's too convenient Zlooky. Get used to being a little sceptical of what you read or you'll end up a Karl Pilkington

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Re: The Politics Thread

13 Israeli soldiers, over 60 Palestinians dead today

35 000 have fled their homes in Gaza City

2-hour truce broken by Hamas or Israel, both blame each other

yikes

no signs of cease-fire despite attempts from numerous people, including UN Secretary General, someone from France.

Biden will try now

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Re: The Politics Thread

13 Israeli soldiers' date=' over 60 Palestinians dead today

35 000 have fled their homes in Gaza City

2-hour truce broken by Hamas or Israel, both blame each other

yikes

no signs of cease-fire despite attempts from numerous people, including UN Secretary General, someone from France.

Biden will try now[/quote']

The problem is so easy to solve, yet no one has really even considered it. Build a very high wall around them and let them fight/talk it out.

Most of this fighting is due to third-party provocation anyway.

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