Jump to content
Stuart H

The Politics Thread

Recommended Posts

Re: The Politics Thread

Quite' date=' but now you have read the articles at least three times now, care to share how you came to your first conclusion?...:confused:[/color']

Well, since the author tries to convince us leftists think power / money is in the hands of Jewish people (who by that logic would be the deciders of the global economy), they would be the ones responsible for the events that caused the recession, would they not?

But I agree with you, I should have explained myself better there. It was late and I had to read that stuff, then post, all after an exhausting day (and week) of work. :)

.....I'm sorry but Israel are equally responsible if not less for this conflict then Palestine. After the war everyone was feeling essentially sorry for them so we gave them a homeland: a tiny barren desert strip in an area of Palestine' date=' before Palestine was even a county. Israel Palestine still had all the best bits and they shared Jerusalem. Then, Nasser starts a war, with the support of Palestine of course, and Israel crush them in 6 days and then get West Bank, Golan Heights and Gaza strip, which they give back!. The PLO, which is bloody liberal compared to Hamas, made the first real aggressive step and now we are blaming Israel for finding it hard to cope with a nation that is run by a Hamas's charter, that uncompromisingly seeks Israel's destruction. Israel are stupid to be bombing back, but Hamas wont cease until Israel is destroyed. Gaza is a very densely populated city which is hard to accurately bomb in, but Isreal isn't bombing Gaza because its Gaza, they are bombing Gaza because its run by Hamas. It's not even about who started this war, because only one of these governments will end this war, and its not going to be Hamas.

complete rant: ignore typos[/quote']

Sorry, but I'm not even gonna bother replying to this... :o:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

Before someone calls me an anti-semite' date=' I repeat: I have Jewish ancestors and I'm very proud of that heritage.

[b']That's why I painfully recognise that Israel are to blame (almost entirely) for this humanitary tragedy.[/b]

Solution: recognise the Palestinian state and return to the pre-1967 borders. Why doesn't this happen? Because Israel feel they're entitled to a Jewish state, rather than an Israeli one. Return to the pre-1967 borders and stop playing the holocaust card, every time people disagree with your policies, Israel! The holocaust was 1 of the most horrifying (if not the most horrifying) chapters of human history. Israel simply have no legitimate argument to justify a settling process and all the suffering that comes with it. The return to the pre-1967 borders would be the ideal solution. Israel would still have their rightful Israeli state and if they want to make it a Jewish one, then go ahead!

Let's just stop this hypocrisy! Palestine (mainly because of the Hamas) aren't angels either, but Israel are clearly the most responsible for this dramatic situation. Stop acting like impreialists!

Of course, most of the media support Israel and people who are too lazy to look for alternative news sources are necessarily going to pick on Palestine. Add to that the huge anti-Islam propaganda from the post 9/11 (antoher heinous historic espisode). It works great with Americans. Lots of them are morons and it tdoesn't take much to make them say: "Them Arabs and Muslims are all terrorists". :o

But more and more Americans (and people from other countries, too) are waking up: the smart ones, mainly. It's hard to think rationally when most of the media is brainwashing you.

This is certainly one of the most complex political topics of our days. That's why I believe people should seek as much information as they can, before talking about this.

I have produced lots of posts about the subject in this thread.

Feel free to read them! ;)

Closest you got to explaining why... In the 15 pages I could be asked to read :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

In your opinion.

But you're free to believe whatever you want' date=' even if it doesn't make a lot of sense. :o

End of.[/quote']

I'm sorry but you didn't explain...go back over the last 15 pages and read.... I just want to know for Christ sake why you think Israel is more to blame. Also I would like to know if you find blame in cause or effect? I'm not going to belligerently attack you, I want a discussion not an argument

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

I'm sorry but you didn't explain...go back over the last 15 pages and read.... I just want to know for Christ sake why you think Israel is more to blame. Also I would like to know if you find blame in cause or effect?

No, I explained alright.

You just didn't like what you read.

I won't be bothered with this anymore, so please stop trolling me! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

No' date=' I explained alright.

You just didn't like what you read.

I won't be bothered with this anymore, so please stop trolling me! :)[/quote']

I'm not trolling. Pls link me explanation as I may be stupid...:o

Also to start off: you know Hamas want to get rid of Israel entirely, they won't accept going back to 1967 borders....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

I'm not trolling. Pls link me explanation as I may be stupid...:o

Nah' date=' like I said before, you just didn't like what you read.

Also to start off: you know Hamas want to get rid of Israel entirely, they won't accept going back to 1967 borders....

In bold: that's the best solution imo. And it's not because Obama mentioned it. It was before that. ;)

And if you had carefully read my posts, you would have seen what I think of Hamas (they're terrorists and the Palestinian people need to be liberated from them).

EDIT: I won't even bother reading your comment to this post, I feel this is a dead end, sorry!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

I'm not trolling. Pls link me explanation as I may be stupid...:o

Also to start off: you know Hamas want to get rid of Israel entirely' date=' they won't accept going back to 1967 borders....[/quote']

The whole middle east is a nightmare, whether it is Israel, Iraq, Egypt, Iran, Syria, the list is endless, If its not this conflict its another, the best option would be just to leave them all too it and see where it goes, but back to reality this is not an option with so many radical groups on the go with a hate of the western world and western religion,us westerners need to keep an eye on whats going on.

What is going on in Iraq is shocking, Christian Iraq's being driven from their homes because the are not supporters of Islam, (i'll not say anymore on that subject)

I could say alot more, but id probably get banned,:eek: but over time these radicals will come face to face with the western world and what a ding dong awaits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

The whole middle east is a nightmare.

Dead right Taylor' date=' the Israeli's aside the whole place is not worth a carrot, now of course when you had the British empire you had none of these problems..ah the good old days. Mind you that fool in the Whitehouse has a lot to answer for, be it red lines in Syria, troop withdrawal in Iraq, the Arab spring, allowing those nutters in Iran to build the nuclear bomb or his encouragement of Hamas....oh how the world needs another Ronald Reagan. By the way do you thing that the socialist workers party will be organising a march to demand a cessation of Isis hostiles in the Iraq?..[/color']

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

Well Safir' date=' as an intelligent person, you couldn't say anything else, could you? :D

Fox News is lead by Rupert Murdoch and it's an ultraconservative propaganda machine. :o[/quote']

Yup, but it's possible to do conservative viewpoints reasonably.

Fox isn't one of those :P, therefore, proper nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

The whole middle east is a nightmare' date=' whether it is Israel, Iraq, Egypt, Iran, Syria, the list is endless, If its not this conflict its another, the best option would be just to leave them all too it and see where it goes, but back to reality this is not an option with so many radical groups on the go with a hate of the western world and western religion,us westerners need to keep an eye on whats going on.

What is going on in Iraq is shocking, Christian Iraq's being driven from their homes because the are not supporters of Islam, (i'll not say anymore on that subject)

I could say alot more, but id probably get banned,:eek: but over time these radicals will come face to face with the western world and what a ding dong awaits.[/quote']

I have said this a while ago. It starts and ends with Islam. Common denominator in almost every conflict. But since it's not politically correct to say it, nobody does so. They are still stuck in the Middle Ages with some of their ideals and most of them are not suited to life in the 21st century.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

I have said this a while ago. It starts and ends with Islam. Common denominator in almost every conflict. But since it's not politically correct to say it' date=' nobody does so. They are still stuck in the Middle Ages with some of their ideals and most of them are not suited to life in the 21st century.[/quote']

Well, lots of people say it, but they're not very good at presenting the message in a way that appeals to a wider audience (and not just bigots).

Hint hint: Somebody should make a case for it. There's definitely potential since if you reworded what you've written and backed it up with a little more solid mainstream data, you'd get quite a lot of people to agree with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

I have said this a while ago. It starts and ends with Islam. Common denominator in almost every conflict. But since it's not politically correct to say it' date=' nobody does so. They are still stuck in the Middle Ages with some of their ideals and most of them are not suited to life in the 21st century.[/quote']

*Religion :P

All religion's have problems. Islam itself seems to depend on what Qu'ran quotes you choose to believe:

1) We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers. (Surat 'Āli `Imrān 3.151)

2)Whosoever kills a human being for Murder or Creating Mischief in the Land, it is as if he had killed the whole of Human Kind and whoso saved the life of one as if he has saved the life of all Mankind The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 5, Verse 12

3) "but when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is oft-forgiving, Most merciful." The Holy Quran, Chapter 9, Verse 5

and indeed the list of contrasting views goes on..... (as it does in the bible)

The problem with Islam especially seems to be their much more conservative & strict approach to religion. They are very fundamental and their religion suffers for it. Indeed, with such negativity towards their religion you can understand why many would choose to follow the more fundamental views. This seems to leave us in a balancing act in which we either appease a less fundamental Islam or fight it, leading to a bigger backlash. In Britain we seem to be achieving the appeasement side, and yet struggles with extremism here lead to slip in the overall balance and more and more of Islam seems objectified, leading to greater heatiness. A slightly fundamental Islam can barely survive in England and a more fundamental, bearing on the extreme just couldn't integrate at all. We need some way to stop extremism without the added effect of stigmatising the rest of Islam....which i find very hard to do myself. Any answers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

Well' date=' lots of people say it, but they're not very good at presenting the message in a way that appeals to a wider audience (and not just bigots).

Hint hint: Somebody should make a case for it. There's definitely potential since if you reworded what you've written and backed it up with a little more solid mainstream data, you'd get quite a lot of people to agree with you.[/quote']

I understand what you are saying but I am no politican and have no aspiration to be one.

I think there is a shift in perception for a lot of people in general. Look around Europe, the European elections this year etc. Look how many people voted for clowns such Front National, UKIP and all the others across the continent. Imagine a main stream party adapting some of their ideas and presenting them in a decent manner. Run away victory at elections.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

I understand what you are saying but I am no politican and have no aspiration to be one.

I think there is a shift in perception for a lot of people in general. Look around Europe' date=' the European elections this year etc. Look how many people voted for clowns such Front National, UKIP and all the others across the continent. Imagine a main stream party adapting some of their ideas and presenting them in a decent manner. Run away victory at elections.[/quote']

Not really. An idea that isn't inclusive never goes anywhere. Every idea that revolutionized the society was presented in the optimal manner. Ignoring reasonable presentation simply dooms your ideas to oblivion.

People have lots of sentiments, and immigration is just one issue. If you do things in the wrong way, a promising cause with lots of potential gets flipped around and demonized by the greater public. In a lot of ways it's like young football supertalents - you can end up like Pogba or Kakuta, depending on the effort you put in.

Also, every person likes different parts of the same issue. There's a reason why political parties have multifaceted platforms - they try to combine different voter groups or otherwise they'd have too few people behind them to make their cause societally relevant. That's also why they emphasize different things to different groups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

Well' date=' lots of people say it, but they're not very good at presenting the message in a way that appeals to a wider audience (and not just bigots).

Hint hint: Somebody should make a case for it. There's definitely potential since if you reworded what you've written and backed it up with a little more solid mainstream data, you'd get quite a lot of people to agree with you.[/quote']

No Saf, i'm with the German here, why should the underlying truth about Islam only be spoke about in terms that are palatable to the political classes?. They should mirror our views and believe me Mia sums them up perfectly.

*Religion :P

We need some way to stop extremism without the added effect of stigmatising the rest of Islam....which i find very hard to do myself. Any answers?

I agree with you. World would be a better place without religion.

Depends on what religion you wish to get rid of i suppose?..the vile cult of Islam and corrupt Catholicism ?..yes certainly....Protestantism ?' date=' no [/color']

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

Depends on what religion you wish to get rid of i suppose?..the vile cult of Islam and corrupt Catholicism ?..yes certainly....Protestantism ?' date=' no [/color']

All religions except yours then Dave? :P

There are plenty of peaceful religions but several of them don't mix. As Mia was saying, many Islamic views contradict hugely with many Christian ones. Yet, Muslims continue to migrate to traditionally Christian countries and demand that cultures change to suit them. The access to world news gives more insight than ever into countries of other religions and the problems they face. They've probably had these problems for centuries and the problems will only be considered as problems by overseas onlookers, unfortunately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

All religions except yours then Dave? :P

There are plenty of peaceful religions but several of them don't mix. As Mia was saying' date=' many Islamic views contradict hugely with many Christian ones. Yet, Muslims continue to migrate to traditionally Christian countries and demand that cultures change to suit them. The access to world news gives more insight than ever into countries of other religions and the problems they face. They've probably had these problems for centuries and the problems will only be considered as problems by overseas onlookers, unfortunately.[/quote']

:o...errr in a nut shell Stewie yes ;) i'll finish my post pub Kebab and keep my powder dry on this one

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

Yet' date=' Muslims continue to migrate to traditionally Christian countries and demand that cultures change to suit them. .[/quote']

Thats the biggest problem, and can see it coming to a head in the UK over the next few years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: The Politics Thread

:o...errr in a nut shell Stewie yes ;) i'll finish my post pub Kebab and keep my powder dry on this one

TBH, I don't really disagree. The peaceful religions are the ones you never hear anything about. I'm rather uninformed but you don't read a lot about Buddhist or Sikh unrest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...