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Stuart H

The Politics Thread

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Re: The Politics Thread

I'm not gonna talk about this topic anymore' date=' but I think u guys should see this:

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I posted this video a while ago and I highly recommend you guys to watch it if you want to understand the conflict but you can't be bothered to read 100+ pages of a book dedicated to this topic.

Funnily enough, when I posted another video of Miko Peled, Dave (Hugh Latimer) labeled him as a "self-hating Jew". Shows how much of an imbecile Dave is.

Miko mentions the Nakba (1948 Palestinain exodus) where he recalls his mother telling him what really happened. The Palestinians were forced out of their homes to make way for the Zionist migration, not what was mentioned in the Zionist narrative that the Palestinians voluntary left, which Dave still believes despite evidence suggesting otherwise.

For those who are not familiar with Peled, his grandfather was one of the founding fathers of Israel and his father was a famous general who then later became a peace activist and a critic of Israel's military policy. Peled served with the military but he soon left after he was disgusted with Israeli's military policy. Also his niece was killed in a suicide bombing, but instead of him, his sister and his brother-in-law blaming the perpetrators, they blamed the Zionist regime who's actions have caused violent reactions like this.

Now watch Dave attempting to debunk this video by arguing with a debunked narrative. :rolleyes:

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Re: The Politics Thread

I'm not gonna talk about this topic anymore' date=' but I think u guys should see this:

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Someone else posted it before.

Btw, someone who was screwed by the Israeli army probably isn't the most ...hmm... impartial spokesperson on the matter :)

But yeah I'm not getting into this topic anymore, i'm tired of forum arguments :o

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Re: The Politics Thread

Someone else posted it before.

Btw' date=' someone who was screwed by the Israeli army probably isn't the most ...hmm... impartial spokesperson on the matter :)

But yeah I'm not getting into this topic anymore, i'm tired of forum arguments :o[/quote']

He wasn't screwed. He detested the actions of Israeli's military actions, just like his father. It's worth mentioning that his father is still respected in Israel despite his views.

Also he mentions his mother's recalling what happened in the Nakba. The Zionist narrative was that the Palestinians voluntary left, but as evidence and testimonies from witness' tell you, that wasn't the case.

If you watch the video, you'll see why myself and Pedro posted it. Go and watch the video for yourself and then tell me what do you think. It shows how racist and cruel the Zionist regime is. And just to mention, Miko was once a Zionist. He believed Israel did good, but soon he realized that he believed wrong.

Yeah me too. :o But it's gotta be done so that they can learn the truth.

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Re: The Politics Thread

He wasn't screwed. He detested the actions of Israeli's military actions' date=' just like his father. It's worth mentioning that his father is still respected in Israel despite his views.

Also he mentions his mother's recalling what happened in the Nakba. The Zionist narrative was that the Palestinians voluntary left, but as evidence and testimonies from witness' tell you, that wasn't the case.

If you watch the video, you'll see why myself and Pedro posted it. Go and watch the video for yourself and then tell me what do you think. It shows how racist and cruel the Zionist regime is. And just to mention, Miko was once a Zionist. He believed Israel did good, but soon he realized that he believed wrong.

Yeah me too. :o But it's gotta be done so that they can learn the truth.[/quote']

I mean, morality is a dodgy tool in international politics. But I'm really just not getting into this because I'm sick of arguing about random stuff on forum lol :P

I study international politics and will probably work in the field for a living, so I get my dose of it during the day. So will stay away from arguments in my spare time :)

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Re: The Politics Thread

91WSdcB.png

Should Scotland become independent?

blue = yes

red = no

Literally everyone in Camden, Primrose Hill & Hoxton I've spoken to wishes for independence, bound to be a few blue dots under London's mass of red.

Personally undecided, but if the situation were the other way 'round (indy Scotland merging with a bloated, abysmal UK) then there's no choice at all.

Difficulty is how would the Oil 'quota' be drawn up (if it's along International guidelines Scotland has a hell of a lot less than it thinks), who would lead (Congrats Salmond for securing independence, please step down henceforth) the country, what about Nato (non supportive of Nuclear weapons) & EU (need that central bank - no currency union) membership, how will the public sector be set up (and how much of that will be flogged to lcd private enterprises?), what happens with the current 'UK' public (NHS workers, Civil Servants, British Army) bodies and last but not least how will tax (especially corporation tax), benefits and pensions be decided and how will a public body (bodies?) deal with that?

IMO if independence is reached there'll be a massive rush before March. Corporation tax will have to be through the floor to attract more companies than there are already to get off to a running start, a Union/debt agreement will have to be reached with rUK to avoid (at the very least) Scottish bonds trading at junk status from the get go and some sort of long term transfer of rUK public bodies will have to commence.

If independence is agreed it'll definitely have been the most important development in UK politics in my lifetime, it'll be interesting either way - but in the event of 'no' and the insane amount of reconciliatory devolution that will occur how long would it be before the next referendum...?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Funnily enough alot of the people i speak to hope for a yes vote, mainly because they see the Scots as money grabbing ingrates who have never liked us anyway, but yes Spam the questions you pose are ( to say the least) very complex. I have not seen any real answers from the yes campaign other than vague promises that everything will be alright once Scotland frees herself from the evil Tory yoke. Its quite ridiculous to see many Scots buying into this nonsense and one can only feel that if they become independent they will live to regret it, and i for one think that would be a great shame.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Funnily enough alot of the people i speak to hope for a yes vote' date=' mainly because they see the Scots as money grabbing ingrates who have never liked us anyway[/color']

What do you think has led to that view Dave?

Decades of irresponsible media coverage, sheer rank ignorance, or a combination of both?

Anyway I'm confused as the No campaign keep telling us that everyone down south looooooves us and would be crushed and devastated if we vote Yes......are you suggesting that they are telling porky pies?! :eek::eek::eek:

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Re: The Politics Thread

When even the Royal Bank of Scotland reveals that they have a contingency plan to move their HQ to London in the event of a Yes vote, you know it's not going to go well.

I wish you'd taken the north of England with you and we could have made a proper go at it, but I fear it'll either be a No to be left that way for centuries, or a Yes that isn't at all viable. Salmond doesn't have any ideas and is getting by on nationalism, bullishness, propaganda and the No campaign being utterly useless.

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Re: The Politics Thread

When even the Royal Bank of Scotland reveals that they have a contingency plan to move their HQ to London in the event of a Yes vote' date=' you know it's not going to go well.

I wish you'd taken the north of England with you and we could have made a proper go at it, but I fear it'll either be a No to be left that way for centuries, or a Yes that isn't at all viable. Salmond doesn't have any ideas and is getting by on nationalism, bullishness, propaganda and the No campaign being utterly useless.[/quote']

In an ideal world (presuming a Yes Vote of course) Salmond would step down following the move; happy that he'll forever be the man that 'liberated' bonnie Scotland. Of course it would be deluded to think that and this blustering, incompetent ****** will be best placed to become the leader of Scotland.

Politicians have their roles (i.e. Churchill was a perfect wartime Prime Minister whose screw the poor, old toff's club attitude shouldn't have been allowed in Downing Street in peacetime) - Salmond's an excellent agitator and mouthpiece but good God he shouldn't be the leader of iScotland.

Regardless of the outcome of the vote, the North of England will continue to be dumped upon from a great height.

E: Stuart, considering the dire straits RBS is currently in may it not possibly be for the best to 'lose' it? Obviously it's a politically 'embarrassing' thought - but given the amount of red tape it's surrounded in regarding taxpayer/gov ownership and severe debt/toxic assets would iScotland be so quick to take it back. Factor in the assets tangled up in Scotland and it gets more complicated still. Whether it goes with Scotland or remains in the greasy flippers of Westminster there's going to be (one of many) long drawn out transitions that will need to happen.

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Re: The Politics Thread

91WSdcB.png

Should Scotland become independent?

blue = yes

red = no

So the main groups of people in England saying yes are from Birmingham, Luton, the North East, the welsh and the Cornish. All the uneducated ;)

But on a serious note, I don't really see the advantages of independence apart from national pride. That seems to be all that Salmond is basing his campaign on. I'd be worried if I was a Scot given how almost every single big company with links to Scotland in one way or another has come out and said that a yes vote would be a disaster.

It's almost like Salmond wants to get the yes vote and then deal with anything that happens afterwards. I don't think it'll be that simple.

I only know three Scotsmen and all are fervently against independence

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Re: The Politics Thread

What do you think has led to that view Dave?

Decades of irresponsible media coverage' date=' sheer rank ignorance, or a combination of both?

Anyway I'm confused as the No campaign keep telling us that everyone down south looooooves us and would be crushed and devastated if we vote Yes......are you suggesting that they are telling porky pies?! :eek::eek::eek:[/quote']

Undoubtedly a bit of both Stewart, but you can also add to that a sense of incredulity that the Scots can be taken in by the oily smile of that pig of a man Salmond and that after all these years many of you are prepared to turn their backs on the rest of us with such ease. There is an uneasy logic here Stewart, and it flies in the face of many a well held perception of Scottish pragmatism, and loyalty. It suggests that the Scots are either a very stupid people ( i am not suggesting you are) or you truly have no regard for the union and your fellow Britishers ( or should we say the English component) ?. I'm not promoting either but after years of ''yes'' campaign manipulation, evasiveness, spin and down pandering to Scottish pride perhaps you can see my point?.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Some thoughts from an IR perspective in case they become independent

Will Scotland become a NATO member?

Military relationship to England = what? Close alliance?

If not' date=' what?[/quote']

Not unless they completely change their attitude towards the retention of usable nuclear weapons.

The 'British Army' situation is yet to be resolved and it will be one of the trickier balancing acts for iScotland to take care of in the event of independence.

E: Before anyone trusts the untrustable youGov polls, there's a few things to bear in mind:

Good reasons to think the polls are right:

-This is, AFAIK, the first time serious money has been put into polling Scotland

-There are enough pollsters on the ground to cross-check each other

-Everyone is in the same ballpark

-After the Nate Silver phenomenon in the US, there is a lot more attention paid to these things and the science behind getting a representative consensus has gotten better

Good reasons to think the polls are wrong - not necessarily in the Yes direction, just wrong in general:

-This is the first time serious money has been put into Scotland and boy does it show. Some of these methodologies and crosstabs are really bad.

-When you see 40-40 or 42-42 results in the US it's inevitably six months before the election because that's the last time pollsters are that unsure

-The turnout models have nothing to be based on, so at base a lot of these results are pseudo-educated guesswork

-That 2010 blown poll series in the UK was, like, magnitudes off (:o seriously, miles off) and the same people were doing it.

-You can't account for the likes of the 'Shy Tory' principle.

I still think No is a fairly decent favorite (much as I am warming to the idea of iS'land) but that assumes the polls are accurately describing the vote. Despite what it just sounded like I actually think they *are* accurate, but unlike in the US where betting against a large set of polls makes you Mitt Romney or genuinely retarded, it's plausible to be skeptical here. Not long to go lads.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I don't think the Scots have really thought this through enough. The implications of independence are pretty huge from an organisational point of view.

Salmond has been clever in a way because they're in a win win now in his eyes. Either they go independent and he wins, or Scotland gets more powers from Westminster.

Salmond and the yes campaign are just riding a huge wave of patriotism. Once that burst two weeks after a victory, they'd be way out of their depth

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