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The Politics Thread

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Re: The Politics Thread

"If BP wants into the 'monster fields' in the areas west of Shetland, it will have to learn to bend the knee to a greater power - us, the sovereign people of Scotland."We will be the masters of the oil fields, not BP or any other of the majors. If Bob Dudley thinks this is mere rhetoric, just let him wait. It is sovereign power that counts. We will have it, he will not." Mr Sillars added: "As for the bankers. Your casino days, rescued by socialisation of your liabilities while you waltz off with the profits, will be over. You will be split between retail and investment, and if your greed takes the latter down, there will be no rescue."

My God, this is akin to the intimidation many No voters are facing, what a shocking quote...:eek:

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Re: The Politics Thread

Sad news at the passing of the Rev Ian Paisley' date=' truly a great man.[/color']

For the forces of darkness maybe.

Horrible man.

As much as I respect you,my family has told me of tales of speeches of killing Catholics.

Disgusting pig of a man.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Undoubtedly a bit of both Stewart' date=' but you can also add to that a sense of incredulity that the Scots can be taken in by the oily smile of that pig of a man Salmond and that after all these years many of you are prepared to turn their backs on the rest of us with such ease. There is an uneasy logic here Stewart, and it flies in the face of many a well held perception of Scottish pragmatism, and loyalty. It suggests that the Scots are either a very stupid people ( i am not suggesting you are) or you truly have no regard for the union and your fellow Britishers ( or should we say the English component) ?. I'm not promoting either but after years of ''yes'' campaign manipulation, evasiveness, spin and down pandering to Scottish pride perhaps you can see my point?. [/color']

Dave we don't have a single Tory MP in the whole of scotland yet we are ruled by the Tories.... How would you feel if you were ruled from Paris?.....this is how we feel being ruled from London... England is foreign to us and the time to end this rule is now. Salmond is hated by half of scotland but he is not the issue here... The issue is London... I won't bore you with a long speech about how much scotland makes every year or how much we will make when we go on our own but I will ask you to stop listening to the lies and scaremongering from the BBC and the English newspapers. We don't listen to them and neither should you. The Tories want us to balance the books an to hold Trident because it isn't safe to have them in England.. Labour want us to stay because 50 on their MP's are Scottish and without them they will never get back into power... The game is up!

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Re: The Politics Thread

For the forces of darkness maybe.

Horrible man.

As much as I respect you' date='my family has told me of tales of speeches of killing Catholics.

Disgusting pig of a man.[/quote']

Irish Catholic descent by any chance ?, whilst yes he can easily be accused of incitement he, unlike Adams and Mcquiness never practiced torture or murder. Whilst its easy to caricature much of his rhetoric from those dark days, you must remember what he was standing against. A terrorist organisation that on a near daily basis joyfully murdered thousands of innocent ( British) soldiers, Policemen, and ordinary men women and children alike. He knew that ( against the vast majority of its peoples wishes) London was more than happy to hand Ulster over to the republic ( in fact it still is) and his steadfast refusal to yield to the IRA's murderous campaign ( played a huge part) in eventually bringing those butchers to the ballot box.

And as an after thought.. the demonisation of Catholics, if one considers the whole debate about Gay marriage could one not argue that little has changed?...or is it ok for ''oh so educated'' secularists to criticise a faith in the most offensive terms possible?

Dave we don't have a single Tory MP in the whole of scotland yet we are ruled by the Tories.... How would you feel if you were ruled from Paris?.....this is how we feel being ruled from London... England is foreign to us and the time to end this rule is now. Salmond is hated by half of scotland but he is not the issue here... The issue is London...

I feel the same about the EU Gaz' date=' but unlike Scotland I don't get a vote every four years to express my opinion.The whole notion that you ( the Scots) do not get the government you vote for gives me a huge problem, for the last 27 years I have voted conservative but I got a Labour government for 12 of them and a coalition with the Lib Dems for 4. Then again of course the same can be said for people and ( whole) regions across the country, sadly of course democracy means ( that even if you don't like it) you have to accept what the majority wants.

Also I think its worth noting that ( pre-Thatcher) Scotlands voting patterns mirrored that of the rest of the UK, so it wasn’t always a problem was it?. Equally of course could one not argue that the representation of Scottish MPs in Westminster voting on laws that effect the rest of the UK and not Scotland as unfair?. I suppose you could say that in the event of independence that unfairness would be removed but the funny thing is I am happy to accept it as part of the system that we live under.

Another thing that bothers me Gaz is that after independence just who do you think will rule you?, the Scottish parliament?, the bank of England?,or the EU?..

Q.. As the people of Scotland crave home rule, would they ( in the event of a NO victory) vote conservative to ensure a UK wide referendum on the return of powers to the UK.

A... Of course not, all this self determination nonsense is a smokescreen. You will happily give up the notional rule of London but embrace the rule of an organisation that you have no control over whatsoever...you baffle me :confused:.

I won't bore you with a long speech about how much scotland makes every year or how much we will make when we go on our own but I will ask you to stop listening to the lies and scaremongering from the BBC and the English newspapers. We don't listen to them and neither should you. The Tories want us to balance the books an to hold Trident because it isn't safe to have them in England.. Labour want us to stay because 50 on their MP's are Scottish and without them they will never get back into power... The game is up!

Yes I know the whole economics of the thing do get a bit tiresome. I don't think for one minute you will get the pound ( unless you give up whats left of the oil), I think you will face higher prices, jobs losses and become involved with the North of England in a race to the bottom on corporation tax, wages and terms and conditions. Sadly I expect the people of Scotland would not be as prosperous(?) as they are now, but that said they won't starve either. Politically I think you are being a little naive, I don't think many Tories are as anywhere committed to the union as they make out ( Cameron certainly) but not the party as a whole. As you say 59 lost MPs in Westminster, unfair subsidies ( through the Barnett formula), less profitable oil fields, and a potential obstacle in any future EU referendums would all be removed with independence. As for Labour its not only about the MPs it loses its about the party having to shift back to the right to get the English seats it would need to gain a majority in Westminster...You know what this whole independence thing is starting to sound quite appealing after all :P

As for Trident ( at a huge cost) it will end up in Plymouth and don't worry Gaz as Nato members ( if of course you stump up 2% of your GDP) you will continue to be protected by the same nuclear shield that has kept the peace for 60 years. You just won't have to it on your collective conscience’s anymore, better? ….. and me believe those lefties at the BBC ?, i think not ...:)

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showpost.php?p=877950&postcount=46

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Re: The Politics Thread

Hugh you dont get it mate, you countrymen get to vote every 4 years to decide who governs you... YOU get to decide!.., no matter who we vote for, we are governed by whoever YOU vote for.

Scotland is tory free...... we do not want you in our country... you are alien to us ..... its time to go.... its been a blast ;)

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Re: The Politics Thread

Hugh you dont get it mate' date=' you countrymen get to vote every 4 years to decide who governs you... YOU get to decide!.., no matter who we vote for, we are governed by whoever YOU vote for.

Scotland is tory free...... we do not want you in our country... you are alien to us ..... its time to go.... its been a blast ;)[/quote']

You practically govern yourself as it is and even if a No Vote wins you will get even more powers to the point where it is almost self government just without the formal titles so to speak.

What kind of country even considers a place where you get to keep the pound (debateable) and don't set your own interest rates, keep the pound and have no lender of last resort, or join the Euro you must all be bonkers.

Quite frankly Scotland get just about the best deal of any part of the UK and it makes me sick to hear the quite frankly ludicrous statements from some of the yes campaign about "fair deals" etc etc where as you have been leeching more per capita per head than almost everywhere else.

Quite frankly anybody with a smidgen of sense if they were Scottish would vote No if you read the arguments mainly economic, the yes campaign is based on next to nothing but blind patriotism and we hate the English blah blah blah.

Anybody who trusts in Alex Salmond who must be the biggest bull......... I have ever seen must be deluded.

No offence :)

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Re: The Politics Thread

Hugh you dont get it mate' date=' you countrymen get to vote every 4 years to decide who governs you... YOU get to decide!.., no matter who we vote for, we are governed by whoever YOU vote for.

Scotland is tory free...... we do not want you in our country... you are alien to us ..... its time to go.... its been a blast ;)[/quote']

We don't want you in ours.

I have to admit, i don't see the attraction of being in a union with 3 nothing little countries like we are. Sooner you're gone, the better.

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Re: The Politics Thread

We don't want you in ours.

I have to admit' date=' i don't see the attraction of being in a union with 3 nothing little countries like we are. Sooner you're gone, the better.[/quote']

So tell your leaders to let us go... Call the 3 amigos back from Edinburgh with their begging bowls..... It's embarrassing! Oh and tell them the gravy train now stops at Gretna

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Re: The Politics Thread

Hugh you dont get it mate' date=' you countrymen get to vote every 4 years to decide who governs you... YOU get to decide!.., no matter who we vote for, we are governed by whoever YOU vote for.

Scotland is tory free...... we do not want you in our country... you are alien to us ..... its time to go.... its been a blast ;)[/quote']

If only that was the case Gaz, i know its on the '' yes campaigns'' forbidden reading list but take a squint at this..

http://www.aforceforgood.org.uk/debunk/vote1

...of course if its too offensive to read, the basic truth of the matter that since 1945 you ( the Scots) got exactly the government you voted for on 2/3 occasions.

How many people know that out of the 18 General Elections since 5 July 1945 - measured by the winning percentage of overall vote on the day - 9 times Scotland voted Labour, and got Labour. That is, half the time! A further 3 times Scotland voted Conservative, and got Conservative.

In total 12 times, or 66.67% of the time, or two thirds of the time, Scotland has got the party which it voted for - measured by the winning percentage on the day.

5 July 1945 - Labour (Clement Attlee)

Scotland voted Labour (47.9%). Got Labour.

England voted Labour (48.6%). Got Labour.

23 February 1950 - Labour (Clement Attlee)

Scotland voted Labour (46.2%). Got Labour.

England voted for Labour and Conservative exactly (48.8% each). Got Labour.

25 October 1951 - Conservative (Winston Churchill)

Scotland voted Conservative (48.6%). Got Conservative.

England voted Labour (46.1%). Got Conservative.

26 May 1955 - Conservative (Anthony Eden)

Scotland voted Conservative (50.1%). Got Conservative.

England voted Conservative (50.3%). Got Conservative.

8 October 1959 - Conservative (Harold MacMillan, and Alex Douglas-Home)

Scotland voted Conservative (47.2%). Got Conservative.

England voted Conservative (50.0%). Got Conservative.

15 October 1964 - Labour (Harold Wilson)

Scotland voted Labour (48.7%). Got Labour.

England voted Conservative (44.0%). Got Labour.

31 March 1966 - Labour (Harold Wilson)

Scotland voted Labour (49.9%). Got Labour.

England voted Labour (47.8%). Got Labour.

18 June 1970 - Conservative (Edward Heath)

Scotland voted Labour (44.5%). Got Conservative - the first time Scotland didn't get what the majority of voters for a particular party voted for, post-war.

England voted Conservative (48.3%). Got Conservative.

28 February 1974 - Labour (Harold Wilson)

Scotland voted Labour (36.6%). Got Labour.

England voted Conservative (40.1%). Got Labour.

10 October 1974 - Labour (Harold Wilson, and James Callaghan)

Scotland voted Labour (36.3%). Got Labour.

England voted Labour (40.1%). Got Labour.

3 May 1979 - Conservative (Margaret Thatcher)

Scotland voted Labour (41.5%). Got Conservative.

England voted Conservative (47.2%). Got Conservative.

9 June 1983 - Conservative (Margaret Thatcher)

Scotland voted Labour (35.1%). Got Conservative.

England voted Conservative (46.0%). Got Conservative.

11 June 1987 - Conservative (Margaret Thatcher, and John Major)

Scotland voted Labour (42.4%). Got Conservative.

England voted Conservative (46.1%). Got Conservative.

9 April 1992 - Conservative (John Major)

Scotland voted Labour (39%). Got Conservative.

England voted Conservative (45.5%). Got Conservative.

1 May 1997 - Labour (Tony Blair)

Scotland voted Labour (45.6%). Got Labour.

England voted Labour (43.5%) Got Labour.

7 June 2001 - Labour (Tony Blair)

Scotland voted Labour (43.3%). Got Labour.

England voted Labour (41.4%). Got Labour.

5 May 2005 - Labour (Tony Blair, and Gordon Brown)

Scotland voted Labour (38.9%). Got Labour.

England voted Conservative (35.7%). Got Labour. (However, the percentage difference was minimal at 0.2% more than Labour's 35.5% - which delivered Labour 92 more seats.) 3

The breakdown in Scotland among the major parties was: 4

Labour vote - 922,402 - 38.9%

Lib Dem vote - 528,076 - 22.6%

SNP vote - 412,267 - 17.7%

Conservative vote - 369,388 - 15.8%

6 May 2010 - Conservative/Lib Dem Coalition (David Cameron)

Scotland voted Labour (42%). Got Conservative/Lib Dem Coalition, which nevertheless represented 35.6% of Scottish voters.

England voted Conservative (39.5%). Got Conservative/Lib Dem Coalition. 5

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Re: The Politics Thread

....you don't know what to say to that do you China' date=' i was expecting a little more Scots backbone than that :P[/color']

To be honest mate we've stopped listening... its got to the stage where we are now waiting to be told that we will be hit with an astroid if we vote yes :P watching the saltire being flown over downing street was the best comedy sketch ever!.... stop taking it so hard and just accept its over and move on.... maybe wales have oil?

You experts say our oil will run out in a decade while our experts say itll run out in a hundred years or more....... all you need to know us that London's oil will run out in 7 days ;)

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Re: The Politics Thread

To be honest mate we've stopped listening... its got to the stage where we are now waiting to be told that we will be hit with an astroid if we vote yes :P watching the saltire being flown over downing street was the best comedy sketch ever!.... stop taking it so hard and just accept its over and move on.... maybe wales have oil?

You experts say our oil will run out in a decade while our experts say itll run out in a hundred years or more....... all you need to know us that London's oil will run out in 7 days ;)

oh you found it' date=' the fact you have stopped listening is indeed the problem Garry. As a concerned bystander, i admire your optimism but despair at your gullibility, as for the oil lets see ?. If i am wrong then i am happy for you all ( after all my desire for you to remain part of the union has nothing to do with economics) but if i am right then this Valhalla of socialism and equal opportunity will collaspe around your non-listening ears within a generation...and where do you think Mr Salmond will be then my friend?. [/color']

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Re: The Politics Thread

oh you found it' date=' the fact you have stopped listening is indeed the problem Garry. As a concerned bystander, i admire your optimism but despair at your gullibility, as for the oil lets see ?. If i am wrong then i am happy for you all ( after all my desire for you to remain part of the union has nothing to do with economics) but if i am right then this Valhalla of socialism and equal opportunity will collaspe around your non-listening ears within a generation...and where do you think Mr Salmond will be then my friend?. [/color']

I am not a salmond fan mate but People can only take so much... london treats us worse than 2nd class citizens. We just paid an equal share of your new 200 billion pound railway sysrem and it doesnt even come to scotland... this would be funny if it was part of a movie but it isnt....its real. More than half of your country would join us if they could. It is the end for your elitist milionaire politicians and i feel for anyone living above the watford gap

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Re: The Politics Thread

I like Scotland and have relatives there who are as patriotic as you get.

But even they realise that Salmond is making false claims, in particular with Scottish oil barrel figures, in order to make independence seem like a long term viable option and are firmly against a split.

I'd say I was as close to unbiased as you can get in that I have family from both sides but when you look into the facts, and I mean from the most reputable sources, I find it hard to understand how Scottish people believe that in the current economic climate becoming independent is a) viable and B) a good idea.

I would argue that in the future independence would be a good thing for Scotland but when they are able to support themselves financially and undergo the necessary changes to be a successful small nation. There is simply too much cost involved currently to make that transition and Scotland do not have the resources to sustain themselves in the long run.

If Scotland can develop other revenue streams independent of oil etc then perhaps they could flourish but until that time there is no evidence to suggest Scotland is sustainable without England.

I fear for a Yes vote based on the fact that I do not believe Scotland can function as well as it currently does despite the many issues plaguing thousands of Scottish people, and believe me I know there are huge issues in Scotland right now that need addressing. I do not see how independence will garner positive change as there will not be the funding to do so.

Scotland is a small nation with big hearts and I fear that those very admirable traits are being exploited by a man bent on power.

I would love in the future to see Scotland thrive as its own nation but now is not the time and Salmond is not the man to get behind.

It would sadden me to see Scotland leave only because I fear for what would become of the country. England doesn't 'need' Scotland but for the sake of millions of peoples lives we should do our best to encourage them to vote no, Scotland's got on the bike and one stabiliser's off but they're not yet ready to ride alone.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I am not a salmond fan mate but People can only take so much... london treats us worse than 2nd class citizens. We just paid an equal share of your new 200 billion pound railway sysrem and it doesnt even come to scotland... this would be funny if it was part of a movie but it isnt....its real. More than half of your country would join us if they could. It is the end for your elitist milionaire politicians and i feel for anyone living above the watford gap

So if you took a train to London from Glasgow' date=' what line do you think you are going to use...thats of course if it ever gets built?. Tell me how are you treated like 2cnd class citizens?[/color']

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Re: The Politics Thread

Tell me how are you treated like 2cnd class citizens?

After 300+ years of parliamentary union and constantly being told that we're all British you'd think all 'Brits' would be treated equally across the land.

I used to believe that, which is why I was all the more shocked and disgusted when in January 2014 my wife and myself were not allowed to get on a London bus.

The reason? - we only had Scottish money, and the driver refused to accept it - we then had to walk a mile in the rain to the nearest train station.

Ok so it wasn't directly because I'm Scottish but it was humiliating and frustrating nonetheless and made me think what a sad sad state the Union is in that even after 300 years I could be discriminated against for using a slightly different version of the pound (you know, the one that we're all supposed to share just now :rolleyes:).

I could almost see the point if we had been in some rural English village but we were about 3/4 miles from Downing Street as the crow flies so what chance have you got?

It certainly didn't make we feel all warm and fuzzy as a welcome and valued part of 'Great' Britain.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Regarding the London buses. All drivers can refuse the notes given to them by passengers. It is not their duty to provide you with change, as they're not issued with a float, so any change they may have and give you they're giving from their own pocket and as a favour and not duty. It is the travellers responsibility to ensure they carry a valid ticket/ correct amount of change before boarding the bus.

Nothing to do with English/Scottish money. Happened to me before and happens to Londoners every single day. Certainly not discriminating against the Scottish lol

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Re: The Politics Thread

Regarding the London buses. All drivers can refuse the notes given to them by passengers. It is not their duty to provide you with change' date=' as they're not issued with a float, so any change they may have and give you they're giving from their own pocket and as a favour and not duty. It is the travellers responsibility to ensure they carry a valid ticket/ correct amount of change before boarding the bus.

Nothing to do with English/Scottish money. Happened to me before and happens to Londoners every single day. Certainly not discriminating against the Scottish lol[/quote']

No one accepts scottish notes in London mate and if you change £100scottish for £100english at any airport in england..... you only get £94 of english money back because apparently our pound isnt worth as much as your pound :rolleyes:

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Re: The Politics Thread

No one accepts scottish notes in London mate and if you change £100scottish for £100english at any airport in england..... you only get £94 of english money back because apparently our pound isnt worth as much as your pound :rolleyes:

What nonsence lol.... Only the ignorant people who've never come across the Scottish Note may have their doubts as to the legitimacy of the note and in that case you have to excuse their ignorance and understand that they're only trying to protect themselves/their business, as believe me its extremely rare to come across Scottish currency in London.

However, having previously worked in a Casino I can tell you full well that Scottish Note is perfectly acceptable and is valued 1 to 1 lol. If you only got £94 back you got done that's all :P

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Re: The Politics Thread

What nonsence lol.... Only the ignorant people who've never come across the Scottish Note may have their doubts as to the legitimacy of the note and in that case you have to excuse their ignorance and understand that they're only trying to protect themselves/their business' date=' as believe me its extremely rare to come across Scottish currency in London.

However, having previously worked in a Casino I can tell you full well that Scottish Note is perfectly acceptable and is valued 1 to 1 lol. If you only got £94 back you got done that's all :P[/quote']

exchange rate last week in London was 1.062 :rolleyes:

im trying to upload a video not on youtube to let you see

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Re: The Politics Thread

Regarding the London buses. All drivers can refuse the notes given to them by passengers. It is not their duty to provide you with change' date=' as they're not issued with a float, so any change they may have and give you they're giving from their own pocket and as a favour and not duty. It is the travellers responsibility to ensure they carry a valid ticket/ correct amount of change before boarding the bus.

Nothing to do with English/Scottish money. Happened to me before and happens to Londoners every single day. Certainly not discriminating against the Scottish lol[/quote']

As I recall the fare total came to under £5 and we were trying to pay with a £5 note so I find it hard to believe they'd refuse a 'normal' £5 note as we weren't expecting any change so they'd be up on the deal.

In the grand scheme of things it's no biggie to me and there are many many more constructive reasons that I'll be voting Yes.

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