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Stuart H

The Politics Thread

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Re: The Politics Thread

Most opinion polls during the referendum were samples of just over 1000 so the poll Dave brought up is actually twice as accurate as any ordinary opinion poll ;)

Even if the poll is a bit out it still seems obvious that over the coming years as the auld yins fall off their perch (god bless 'em) and are replaced in the electorate by more young adults the 400' date='000 No majority will be naturally eroded.

And that's before you factor in thousands of folk such as your good self who would be prepared to vote Yes with a bit more reassurance over currency/ tax etc. ;)

All pro-Yes parties memberships have shot up since the result, and with support for Labour draining away then Gordon Brown will need to get these wonderful 'new powers' delivered pronto otherwise next time Yes will be even stronger :)[/quote']

Why all this talk of next time? It's hardly democratic to hold referendum after referendum until you get the result you want. Once you've left the union, there's no way back in either so a referendum going the other way wouldn't be possible.

Also, when the older voters do pass away, you'd imagine that many of the voters then becoming old would have a bit more wisdom about them and switch over to No ;)

You say a bit more reassurance on currency and tax - Salmond had absolutely no plans. You won't get a currency union as the UK would be daft to underwrite all the lovely spending you're planning and the Spanish won't let you into the EU either for fears of Catalonia getting ideas.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Most opinion polls during the referendum were samples of just over 1000 so the poll Dave brought up is actually twice as accurate as any ordinary opinion poll ;)

Even if the poll is a bit out it still seems obvious that over the coming years as the auld yins fall off their perch (god bless 'em) and are replaced in the electorate by more young adults the 400' date='000 No majority will be naturally eroded.

And that's before you factor in thousands of folk such as your good self who would be prepared to vote Yes with a bit more reassurance over currency/ tax etc. ;)

All pro-Yes parties memberships have shot up since the result, and with support for Labour draining away then Gordon Brown will need to get these wonderful 'new powers' delivered pronto otherwise next time Yes will be even stronger :)[/quote']

Polls were off, but betting companies had a pretty good idea of the result the whole time. As in since 2012-13 up until the last moments. Even when it changed.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Why all this talk of next time? It's hardly democratic to hold referendum after referendum until you get the result you want. Once you've left the union' date=' there's no way back in either so a referendum going the other way wouldn't be possible.[/quote']

It's democratic if it's in the SNP manifesto and Scotland votes them in with a majority again.

But from what Alex Salmond said I can't see the SNP having it in the 2016 manifesto so we'd be talking 2021 minimum and referendum 2023-ish.

It's unlikely though that they'd get another majority unless Westminster fudge the extra powers thing.....so no need to worry ;)

Polls were off' date=' but betting companies had a pretty good idea of the result the whole time. As in since 2012-13 up until the last moments. Even when it changed.[/quote']

Yep so if David Cameron had listened to the bookies instead of the polls he wouldn't have needed to have promised any new powers....he probably feels a bit silly now :o

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Re: The Politics Thread

Yep so if David Cameron had listened to the bookies instead of the polls he wouldn't have needed to have promised any new powers....he probably feels a bit silly now :o

Or Cameron's promises shifted the result.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Why all this talk of next time? It's hardly democratic to hold referendum after referendum until you get the result you want. Once you've left the union' date=' there's no way back in either so a referendum going the other way wouldn't be possible.

Also, when the older voters do pass away, you'd imagine that many of the voters then becoming old would have a bit more wisdom about them and switch over to No ;)

You say a bit more reassurance on currency and tax - Salmond had absolutely no plans. You won't get a currency union as the UK would be daft to underwrite all the lovely spending you're planning and the Spanish won't let you into the EU either for fears of Catalonia getting ideas.[/quote']

A lot of talk about it happening in 10 years time again but who knows who cares, I like being part of the U.K just not England. :D Glad it's over though sick of hearing about it everywhere I went. All the places i go to relax i had to listen to it, I was in my local massage parlour and the fine looking lady had just finished and asked if i wanted 'extras' i said of course , she gave me a no vote sticker. :(

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Re: The Politics Thread

Maybe + financial institutions once again blackmailing democracy' date=' by scaring voters (who should have been able to see throught it)...

Then again, I was a neutral in all this and "No" won, after a democratic process.[/quote']

I'm pretty sure this has been the first political campaign ever that has just shouted bullying and scare-mongering at everyone who opposed them. Businesses were simply informing the Scottish people of what would happen if they chose independence. Many of them have the majority of their customer base in the UK so it would make sense to move, as do price rises if taxes would be higher.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I'm pretty sure this has been the first political campaign ever that has just shouted bullying and scare-mongering at everyone who opposed them. Businesses were simply informing the Scottish people of what would happen if they chose independence. Many of them have the majority of their customer base in the UK so it would make sense to move' date=' as do price rises if taxes would be higher.[/quote']

Financial institutions have nothing to do with democracy and should stay away from it.

People should make up their own minds, without being threatened. ;)

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Re: The Politics Thread

Financial institutions have nothing to do with democracy and should stay away from it.

People should make up their own minds' date=' without being threatened. ;)[/quote']

They weren't being threatened. They were being enabled to make a more informed decision.

Do you think the Scottish people would have been pleased if they hadn't been warned, had voted for independence and had then suffered price hikes and big businesses moving south?

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Re: The Politics Thread

They weren't being threatened. They were being enabled to make a more informed decision.

Do you think the Scottish people would have been pleased if they hadn't been warned' date=' had voted for independence and had then suffered price hikes and big businesses moving south?[/quote']

People should be able to figure that out for themselves.

Do you think these angels (financial institution members) spoke out of concern for the Scottish people? :o

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Re: The Politics Thread

People should be able to figure that out for themselves.

Do you think these angels (financial institution members) spoke out of concern for the Scottish people? :o

Why else would they do it? They're bound to lose business from Scotland's Yes voters after making such announcements.

And you're right, people should be able to figure that out for themselves but we've just seen 45% of Scotland vote for independence when the Yes campaign had no conclusions at all about how their country would work. No currency, no EU, no defence, jobs moving away, no tax plan, etc.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Why else would they do it? They're bound to lose business from Scotland's Yes voters after making such announcements.

And you're right' date=' people should be able to figure that out for themselves but we've just seen 45% of Scotland vote for independence when the Yes campaign had no conclusions at all about how their country would work. No currency, no EU, no defence, jobs moving away, no tax plan, etc.[/quote']

Indeed, + the "Yes" campaign deserved a far better leader than Salmond. :o

But come on Stu, financial institutions (banks, rating agencies, etc) only $ee money. They're far from being humanitarian entities, you know. :D

If they were always so concerned about people's well being, they wouldn't just use tax payer money to bail them out, after their constant greedy members' stunts. In Portugal for instance, we see that all the time. :(

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Re: The Politics Thread

Indeed' date=' + the "Yes" campaign deserved a far better leader than Salmond. :o

But come on Stu, financial institutions (banks, rating agencies, etc) only $ee money. They're far from being humanitarian entities, you know. :D

If they were always so concerned about people's well being, they wouldn't just use tax payer money to bail them out, after their constant greedy members' stunts. In Portugal for instance, we see that all the time. :([/quote']

Oh, I know that they aren't the nicest. But you haven't given a reason at all as to why businesses would have come out with these statements otherwise. Scaring and threatening the electorate isn't really a reason that washes with me.

Take ASDA for instance, who suggested that prices in Scotland may rise with independence. What do they have to gain from saying that? They'd certainly lose custom from Scottish Yes voters who believe them to be scare-mongering and I can't see any great opportunity for them to increase custom anywhere else from it.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Indeed' date=' + the "Yes" campaign deserved a far better leader than Salmond. :o

But come on Stu, financial institutions (banks, rating agencies, etc) only $ee money. They're far from being humanitarian entities, you know. :D

If they were always so concerned about people's well being, they wouldn't just use tax payer money to bail them out, after their constant greedy members' stunts. In Portugal for instance, we see that all the time. :([/quote']

As we've seen in the past, the cream of Scottish Politics (Blair, Brown...) tend to drift down to Westminster; therefore it's difficult to have someone 'better' than Salmond remaining to front the YES campaign.

Genuine lol if anyone expects their Government to actually care about them, this ain't Scandinavia you know.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Indeed' date=' + the "Yes" campaign deserved a far better leader than Salmond. :o

But come on Stu, financial institutions (banks, rating agencies, etc) only $ee money. They're far from being humanitarian entities, you know. :D

If they were always so concerned about people's well being, they wouldn't just use tax payer money to bail them out, after their constant greedy members' stunts. In Portugal for instance, we see that all the time. :([/quote']

Why shouldn't they by greedy, it's greed that drives business forward and consequently the general welfare. Scotland based businessman were just providing adequate information to voters so they could better decide on the polls, which is far more than the Yes campaing ever did.B)

And Pedro, with all respect, what I see Portugal is not business men pulling stunts (we actually have a high deficit in energetic business men). What I see are consecutive governments through the years consisting of certainly very well intentioned people thinking they should decide what's best for the economy based on their self-convinced higher patterns of morality/Humanitarianism/love for equality.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Why shouldn't they by greedy' date=' it's greed that drives business forward and consequently the general welfare. Scotland based businessman were just providing adequate information to voters so they could better decide on the polls, which is far more than the Yes campaing ever did.B)

And Pedro, with all respect, what I see Portugal is not business men pulling stunts (we actually have a high deficit in energetic business men). [b']What I see are consecutive governments through the years consisting of certainly very well intentioned people thinking they should decide what's best for the economy based on their self-convinced higher patterns of morality/Humanitarianism/love for equality.[/b]

What country do you live in, mate? :eek:

Our governments care 0 about equality and our population's well being. Our politicians are sellouts.

We have huge deficit, because we wasted our EU funds on highways and are constantly bailing out the stunts (yes, stunts, so I don't call it what it really is) of greedy bankers and politicians, who were and still are involved with them.

And greedyness drives the economy and welfare forward?! :eek::eek::eek: You've been watching a lot of Fox News, my friend. :D Yes, greedy people care a lot about others - they use their money to pay their employees (if they're CEOs) decent salaries, rather than keeping a disproportionate part for themselves, while the employees are the ones responsible for the vast majority of the work. :o

Greedy people don't usually evade taxes or put their often ill gotten money in Swiss banks or in accounts in the Cayman Islands, too. :rolleyes:

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Re: The Politics Thread

Oh' date=' I know that they aren't the nicest. But you haven't given a reason at all as to why businesses would have come out with these statements otherwise. Scaring and threatening the electorate isn't really a reason that washes with me.

Take ASDA for instance, who suggested that prices in Scotland may rise with independence. What do they have to gain from saying that? They'd certainly lose custom from Scottish Yes voters who believe them to be scare-mongering and I can't see any great opportunity for them to increase custom anywhere else from it.[/quote']

Asda told their Scottish workers they had to vote no if they wanted to safeguard their jobs! Welcome to the matrix

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Re: The Politics Thread

What country do you live in' date=' mate? :eek:

Our governments care 0 about equality and our population's well being. Our politicians are sellouts.[/quote']

I disagree: when for the last 40 years you had 100% of the time Governments run by of Socialist parties (PS and PSD), plus high representations of Stalinists (PCP) and Trotskists (BE) in parliament, you in all honesty won't be able to claim our governments cared 0 about equality, it's actually been their main drive in policies through times.

That remark "all politicians are sellouts" I just can't endorse, I think that's a very dangerous generalization/claim - our political class sure is below average in quality when you consider certain countries but I won't classifiy them all as sellouts...

We have huge deficit' date=' because we wasted EU funds on highways and bailing out the stunts[/b'] (yes, stunts, so I don't call it what it really is) of greedy bankers and politicians, who were and still are involved with them.

Sorry Pedro, you're not making sense here, I assume you're talking about the budget deficit: so you say it is high because the EU funds were wasted - the fact that they were wasted would at least generate zero return on investment from them, not generate public budget deficit. What generated the public deficit was, as I've been saying, the consecutive excessive drive for State intervention and welfare protection by well intentioned governments.

Those bailouts of banks you refer, I agree with you. Certain Banks have been incurring in very risky activities through the last decades sometimes jeopardizing their main function in society which is guaranting depositants money - that's an issue not only in Portugal but in the US and Europe aswell.

And greedyness drives the economy and welfare forward?! :eek::eek::eek: You've been watching a lot of Fox News' date=' my friend. :D Yes, greedy people care a lot about others - they use their money to pay their employees (if they're CEOs) decent salaries, rather than keeping a huge part for themselves, while the employees are the ones responsible for the vast majority of the work. :o

Greedy people don't usually evade taxes or put their money in Swiss banks or in accounts in the Cayman Islands, too. :rolleyes:[/quote']

Aha it's funny I think I've never watched Fox News nor any of the Channels of the Fox Corporation:D. Should I fell offend by your assumption!?

Regarding the high CEO wages and their so called employed slavers, well, if that is so true and schocking, what's keeping those opressed workers to go ahead and become CEO's themselves, when the pay rise would be so much better.......?

I'll speak for myself, I would certainly love to become a CEO, but I just think that I would suck at it, given the age/skill level I currentle stand at :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Re: The Politics Thread

I disagree: when for the last 40 years you had 100% of the time Governments run by of Socialist parties (PS and PSD)' date=' plus high representations of Stalinists (PCP) and Trotskists (BE) in parliament, you in all honesty won't be able to claim our governments cared 0 about equality, it's actually been their main drive in policies through times.

That remark "all politicians are sellouts" I just can't endorse, I think that's a very dangerous generalization/claim - our political class sure is below average in quality when you consider certain countries but I won't classifiy them all as sellouts...[/quote']

You're forgetting the fascist CDS-PP. Their main man, Paulo Portas, + some of his fellow party members should be in prison for deviating public money towards the party and I suspect they also got a bit, idk why I think that... :P

It's intriguing that 3 German people involved in the "Submarine case" were convicted, but in Portugal noone was. :confused: There's only 1 explanation, I reckon: our judicial system worls a lot better than the German one. :o:p

Finally, I don't believe all politicians are sellouts, otherwise we'd be even more doomed than we actually are. And you know pretty well our parties have carried out anything but socialist policies over the years. When it's time to clean up the mess, that the tax payer didn't do, it's always the poor and the middle class, who get screwed. And our political parties are mostly mafias. They only care about power and money.

Sorry Pedro, you're not making sense here, I assume you're talking about the budget deficit: so you say it is high because the EU funds were wasted - the fact that they were wasted would at least generate zero return on investment from them, not generate public budget deficit.

I had already edited my post, so no, I don't think what you think I think. :D

Those bailouts of banks you refer, I agree with you. Certain Banks have been incurring in very risky activities through the last decades sometimes jeopardizing their main function in society which is guaranting depositants money - that's an issue not only in Portugal but in the US and Europe aswell.

Yup, unfortunately it's true.

Regarding the high CEO wages and their so called employed slavers, well, if that is so true and schocking, what's keeping those opressed workers to go ahead and become CEO's themselves, when the pay rise would be so much better.......?

I'll speak for myself, I would certainly love to become a CEO, but I just think that I would suck at it, given the age/skill level I currentle stand at :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well, how the hell would they become CEOs? :confused:

But you don't need much knowledge to become a CEO (even if you're not qualified for the job), coz our CEOs are so badly prepared... :o

In Portugal, big money is pretty much hereditary (Espírito Santo family, for instance).

People in leadership positions, in our country, are often there because of inherited money, rather than their own merit. No to mention "cunhas" to family friends, etc.

So it's almost impossible for the average worker to climb the social ladder. That's why even our most talented youngsters are emigrating, coz they aren't appreciated here. Truly heartbreaking stuff! :(

Which brings me to my conclusion: no wonder our nation is in such a rough shape; being lead by incompetent and corrupt people, who chase away our most gifted youngsters.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I'd wager that's hearsay' date=' rather than the truth. Would be interested if you have proof though.[/quote']

Got 3 family members who work for asda in Motherwell and they were basically told that stores could close during the uncertainty of a yes vote.

You can't blame Asda for looking after their own and I don't know anyone that would vote themselves out of a job. It's just another little peice of the puzzle

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Re: The Politics Thread

Eurgh Labour.

Spend spend spend after whacking up taxes that won't get paid. And worse' date=' they plan to let children vote so they can be tempted by the fantasy spending.

I really really hope they don't get in.[/quote']

They won't and yes i watched it too, regardless of party affiliations i must admit i cringed throughout the whole speech...in other news it would appear that justice has been served on these two ...

0009876d-642.jpg

...For those who don't know these are the child murderers who happily butchered three Jewish teenagers earlier this summer. Strangely ( initially) those peace loving freedom fighters of Hamas denied any link to the perpetrators, now they not only admit being linked to the attack they revere them as martyrs. Still as the old saying goes '' God is great'' and no doubt they are currently burning in hell with the rest of their evil kin.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Seeing as though I've seen no other viable solutions suggested from people complaining, what realistic actions do people think Britain should take out to destroy ISIS militants based in Iraq? Because, as far as I've seen, there are two options being suggested:

  • Bomb the scum bags
  • Sit down and have a cup of tea with them

The latter being suggested by those up in cookoo land, and the former being, in my opinion, the best option to just get rid of the vermin.

Or, as a third option, we do nothing and continue to be the PC country that I'm ashamed to say we are. Sadly, there are some people in this country that would choose that option.

I don't want us to go to war at all, but the attitude of some Britons is astonishing. ISIS are laughing at us whilst beheading our own people, yet some people think it's best to do nothing. To put it frankly: terrorists don't negotiate. So, we give them a taste of their own medicine and show that we aren't living in fear.

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