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Stuart H

The Politics Thread

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Re: The Politics Thread

So, very simply from that first graph it looks like Labour started well when they got into power, building a healthy surplus from 1997 to 2001. Since the recession only hit in 2008, what on Earth compelled them to decimate that surplus in those 7 years? The article states that 'none of these organisations, or indeed almost anyone, was suggesting at the time that the UK economy was experiencing a large boom, it makes no sense to criticise policy based on these numbers', but that doesn't justify working to a deficit. You could probably make a case for breaking even.

As it is, we were in a very poor place when the recession hit and that, IMO, is Labour's fault. Not the recession itself.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I'd fancy Cameron to batter Milliband' date=' but I think Ed Balls would eat Osbourne for Lunch (quite literally perhaps)....[/quote']

I reckon the SNP would ultimately come out on top, most of them will be drunk and off their head on smack so they wont feel any pain.

Looking at the odds though can get good odds on Labour forming some kind of government, tempted to throw a little bit on it.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I'd fancy Cameron to batter Milliband' date=' but I think Ed Balls would eat Osbourne for Lunch (quite literally perhaps)....[/quote']

I dunno about that. They're both as wet as each other. Miliband might well make Cameron die from laughter or run away in awkwardness before he could get near him though.

I think the Lib Dems would do better in a mass brawl. Either that or they could toss a coin. Anything apart from letting the British public decide whether they want them after being shafted.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Apparently Balls might be struggling to hold his seat. That'd be hilarious.

That would be a delight....

How he managed to keep his job after the Brown days was over was unbelievable, the thought of him as chancellor is enough to send shivers down my spine...

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Re: The Politics Thread

2-0 up' date=' this is beginning to feel like a Merseyside derby, getting lured into a false sense of security as Liverpool haven't been playing well recently, then BAM we get beat.[/quote']

I wouldn't know about that...

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Re: The Politics Thread

You get used to it' date=' if I was you just avoid any Tories until tomorrow night and just go out and drink it all away in med (I am sure you said one time you went to uni in Liverpool).[/quote']

Aye I do, though not a fan of Med, much prefer Krazyhouse and If I'm completely hammered...Popworld

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Re: The Politics Thread

I've just had an argument with my girlfriend about politics as she said UKIP are a great party and I disagreed haha :P What does everyone else make of UKIP and why specifically?

I like them as they're straight talking and offer something different. Lots of their policies away from immigration and the EU also sit well with me and haven't often been discussed by the media.

On the other hand, some of their candidates and some of the voters they attract do come across as utter knobs.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Labour borrowing money when the economy was booming is absolutely unforgivable. If anyone can point me directly to a decent counter argument' date=' I'd be happy to listen.

The alternative to the 'austerity' (which isn't really particularly austere since we still have a deficit) is the free spending of France who are now up the economic swanee. They've created fewer jobs than Yorkshire and have an unemployment rate that's twice that of the UK. In their recent elections, they've voted in a right wing government to sort things out.[/quote']

http://benjaminstudebaker.com/2015/05/02/britain-for-the-love-of-god-please-stop-david-cameron/

The title is regrettably named and I disagree with that however, I cannot argue against the figures. It shows how effective austerity has been.... not very and argues that both a Labour or Conservative government operating under any notion of austerity is doomed. The concept is flawed however Labour, marginally appear more flexible in their approach to the economy.

Again I'd like to reiterate an apolitical stance I'm supportive of neither.

So' date=' very simply from that first graph it looks like Labour started well when they got into power, building a healthy surplus from 1997 to 2001. Since the recession only hit in 2008, what on Earth compelled them to decimate that surplus in those 7 years? The article states that 'none of these organisations, or indeed almost anyone, was suggesting at the time that the UK economy was experiencing a large boom, it makes no sense to criticise policy based on these numbers', but that doesn't justify working to a deficit. You could probably make a case for breaking even.

As it is, we were in a very poor place when the recession hit and that, IMO, is Labour's fault. Not the recession itself.[/quote']

Without meaning to be rude Stu if you understand the data being presented to you in that link it's impossible to conclude that Labour were in any way responsible. They were recovering slowly, which is the only sustainable model for any struggling economy and the right thing to do if you know economics, but 2008 cannot be their fault. Not even one iota. A global collapse effects everyone not just the UK.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I've just had an argument with my girlfriend about politics as she said UKIP are a great party and I disagreed haha :P What does everyone else make of UKIP and why specifically?

Admittedly they are misrepresented quite grossly by the media and some of their ideas are not too bad however inevitably they attract a certain kind of voter.

Immigration is a hot topic in the UK despite being so beneficial to all aspects of our economy, businesses, health service etc. Often those in a position where they are not doing well for themselves like to scapegoat those that are different for an extreme example see Nazi Germany. The fact is that immigration brings more benefits than downsides and people who refuse to accept that have their heads well in the sand. Our immigration policy isn't perfect but shutting off from Europe is not how to become a successful nation. UKIP fails to recognise this, and when it does it is in the most hushed of tones which is what makes me uncomfortable about their true agenda.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Interesting thoughts guys. I enjoy hearing people's political views, especially if they can make rationale arguments. I tend to echo both Stu and Ben's thoughts. Theyre not a completely bad party, some of their policies make sense. But I do feel that they are a deeply flawed party

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Re: The Politics Thread

Interesting thoughts guys. I enjoy hearing people's political views' date=' especially if they can make rationale arguments. I tend to echo both Stu and Ben's thoughts. Theyre not a completely bad party, some of their policies make sense. But I do feel that they are a deeply flawed party[/quote']

The problem is that even without media portrayal UKIP by definition is a one policy party.

Anyone who wants out of Europe naturally gravitates to them. Unfortunately those who want out in Europe tend not to wholly understand the benefits of European involvement rather focusing on one of the following (of course there are exceptions)

  1. They take our jobs (despite creating 100,000s from foreign businesses)
  2. They take Public Services resources and funding (despite massively favourable net contributions to taxes and skilled foreign nurses and doctors actually keeping our NHS system afloat)
  3. We don't have room (The only reason with any sort of sense but still oversimplifies a wider housing issue to being the fault of minorities rather than the majority which is in itself ludicrous you might aswell just blame everyone who supports Swansea etc and the result is the same)
  4. Racially motivated reasons (Don't need to highlight why these are bad I hope)
  5. Misunderstanding of 'British Values' (despite the majority of our population having blood mixed from so many different countries and generations it makes the Ministry of Sound look like a teenagers bedroom in comparison)

I can't at this hour think of anything else that would persuade anyone to decide UKIP is the party for them.

Other parties, though they lie, promise more in all other aspects other than the above.

Again just want to emphasise I don't agree with any of the above reasons for a vote but in my experience these are the arguments the voters I know of have given me. They may well be the exception but I fear they are not.

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Re: The Politics Thread

The problem is that even without media portrayal UKIP by definition is a one policy party.

Anyone who wants out of Europe naturally gravitates to them. Unfortunately those who want out in Europe tend not to wholly understand the benefits of European involvement rather focusing on one of the following (of course there are exceptions)

  1. They take our jobs (despite creating 100' date='000s from foreign businesses)
    [*']They take Public Services resources and funding (despite massively favourable net contributions to taxes and skilled foreign nurses and doctors actually keeping our NHS system afloat)
  2. We don't have room (The only reason with any sort of sense but still oversimplifies a wider housing issue to being the fault of minorities rather than the majority which is in itself ludicrous you might aswell just blame everyone who supports Swansea etc and the result is the same)
  3. Racially motivated reasons (Don't need to highlight why these are bad I hope)
  4. Misunderstanding of 'British Values' (despite the majority of our population having blood mixed from so many different countries and generations it makes the Ministry of Sound look like a teenagers bedroom in comparison)

I can't at this hour think of anything else that would persuade anyone to decide UKIP is the party for them.

Other parties, though they lie, promise more in all other aspects other than the above.

Again just want to emphasise I don't agree with any of the above reasons for a vote but in my experience these are the arguments the voters I know of have given me. They may well be the exception but I fear they are not.

6) I want a referendum on the EU. I don't know if I'd definitely vote to leave, but I'm incredibly uneasy about the fact that a significant proportion of UK laws are devised by unelected EU bureaucrats in an organisation that nobody has ever voted to be a part of.

7) The rest of the manifesto contains several sensible, fully costed (and independently checked) policies.

Can you name me any positives to uncontrolled mass immigration? Immigrants do make a positive net contribution but how much of that is down to a handful of incredibly wealthy foreigners zooming round Kensington in their Ferraris? I don't believe that any of the calculations take into account the huge strain that the influx of people from the EU has had on the NHS, schools and housing. We need to be building a city the size of Oxford every year to cope and we can't afford to do that, even with the immigrant's net contributions.

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Re: The Politics Thread

The problem is that even without media portrayal UKIP by definition is a one policy party.

Anyone who wants out of Europe naturally gravitates to them. Unfortunately those who want out in Europe tend not to wholly understand the benefits of European involvement rather focusing on one of the following (of course there are exceptions)

  1. They take our jobs (despite creating 100' date='000s from foreign businesses)
    [*']They take Public Services resources and funding (despite massively favourable net contributions to taxes and skilled foreign nurses and doctors actually keeping our NHS system afloat)
  2. We don't have room (The only reason with any sort of sense but still oversimplifies a wider housing issue to being the fault of minorities rather than the majority which is in itself ludicrous you might aswell just blame everyone who supports Swansea etc and the result is the same)
  3. Racially motivated reasons (Don't need to highlight why these are bad I hope)
  4. Misunderstanding of 'British Values' (despite the majority of our population having blood mixed from so many different countries and generations it makes the Ministry of Sound look like a teenagers bedroom in comparison)

The one I'm constantly getting is that they come here illegally and take benefits. I can understand them wanting to lower the amount coming, but they make so many points that I dont agree with,as they have no real foundation

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Re: The Politics Thread

Well in Finland the True Finns party just entered the government today as the second largest party in the country. Let's see what the racist parties can do when they can't just yell at others.

In the best case they reform themselves and become a borderline respectable party who can actually contribute something to the society. In the worst case they'll be a total disaster but then at least voters all over Europe will know these morons can't do jack all.

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Re: The Politics Thread

The country is falling apart, SNP are undoubtedly going to want another referendum with them dominating Scotland and if the Tory's remain in government I'd expect them to win that referendum.

The next five years are going to be years of suffering for the poorest in society, more people will be in food banks, more people will be in poverty whilst the richest in society avoid the mansion tax, avoid paying any more income tax, avoid inheritance tax, avoid nondoms and avoid banker bonuses being taxed. Where's the equality in that?

I'm not arguing that we don't need cuts, spending does need to be reduced from the levels it was at under Brown's government but it has to be spread evenly across society.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I dont read the papers thankyou very much. But if you're on the same side as The Sun and Katie Hopkins then you're probably on the wrong side.

But Conservatives plan of getting out of it completely batters the already battered lower class.

And as a student I'll be gutted to see those toffs get another 5 years' date=' can't wait to finish uni with 40 grand of debt.[/quote']

Bunching people who vote Conservative and Katie Hopkins in the same group is similar to the way people attempt to discredit Islam as a religion because of the actions of the few. Just because some people are terrible people does not mean the rest are.

And yes, Hopkins is a terrible human being.

Also, being British is not bad at all. You guys get free healthcare. That's more than I can say for a lot of countries. And paying 9k a year for university is absolute peanuts to what American students have to do. Just look up some of the school fees in America to see what exorbitant means.

6) I want a referendum on the EU. I don't know if I'd definitely vote to leave' date=' but I'm incredibly uneasy about the fact that a significant proportion of UK laws are devised by unelected EU bureaucrats in an organisation that nobody has ever voted to be a part of.

7) The rest of the manifesto contains several sensible, fully costed (and independently checked) policies.

Can you name me any positives to uncontrolled mass immigration? Immigrants do make a positive net contribution but how much of that is down to a handful of incredibly wealthy foreigners zooming round Kensington in their Ferraris? I don't believe that any of the calculations take into account the huge strain that the influx of people from the EU has had on the NHS, schools and housing. We need to be building a city the size of Oxford every year to cope and we can't afford to do that, even with the immigrant's net contributions.[/quote']

Uncontrolled mass immigration presents benefits, but are far outweighed by negatives. However, to call the UK system uncontrolled mass immigration would be completely false. The people coming in from the EU are already "controlled."

I haven't read up on the EU-UK topic debate for a long time, but the EU is certainly helpful for the UK in certain industries, such as the agriculture industry, where the CAP is hugely beneficial for some farmers. But don't quote me on that, because I do believe that the UK pays into the CAP more than it actually gets. It's been a long time since I've read stuff on this. :o

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